BB open to relinquishing GM duties?

jsinger121

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8slim

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Oh I think Bill has definitely made plenty of mistakes, and it isn't insane to move on from him, just like it wouldn't be insane to keep him. I just was noting that maybe people aren't clear on how the rest of the league lives after 2 decades because the last 4 years really only has 1 bad one by rest of the league standards. Not ideal, but not some disaster that means the coach must be fired. I mean... McVay's Rams went 5-12 last year, even the best teams just have disaster years sometimes when their line/QBs are bad and/or hurt.
This is one of the areas where I’m torn. If Bill was hired in 2020 and these past 4 seasons were all we had to evaluate, I suspect there would be an overwhelming consensus here that he needs to go. I’ve seen more than one Pats HC have a similar track record — a few .500-ish years and one truly bad one — and be fired.

And again, it’s more because of a litany of poor GM decisions than his game day coaching.

His all-time best track record (and aforementioned coaching) is the only reason I want him back. Other than a great stretch in October & November of 2022, there hasn’t been a lot to hang your hat on in the past 4 seasons.
 

IdiotKicker

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BB as coach only is intriguiging, but you wonder how the reality of it plays out if he's still in the building. That's a long shadow to cast on whoever comes next in that role and a lot of pressure on that person. I wonder if he's had feelers out to guys like Pioli or Caserio, because it likely needs to be someone established with some gravitas and with a familiarity with what BB wants in players but with a better track record of executing. Otherwise I think you're setting that personnel person up for failure.
 

8slim

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BB as coach only is intriguiging, but you wonder how the reality of it plays out if he's still in the building. That's a long shadow to cast on whoever comes next in that role and a lot of pressure on that person. I wonder if he's had feelers out to guys like Pioli or Caserio, because it likely needs to be someone established with some gravitas and with a familiarity with what BB wants in players but with a better track record of executing. Otherwise I think you're setting that personnel person up for failure.
I’m hoping Bill could buy in to the concept that the new GM is the bridge from him to the next HC when he eventually hangs it up.

That actually makes a lot of sense to me. Bring in a strong GM who can be making decisions in the best interest of the mid/long term future of the franchise. Especially when you have a current GM who’s going to be gone in a couple years at most even if he’s retained.
 

CR67dream

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BB as coach only is intriguiging, but you wonder how the reality of it plays out if he's still in the building. That's a long shadow to cast on whoever comes next in that role and a lot of pressure on that person. I wonder if he's had feelers out to guys like Pioli or Caserio, because it likely needs to be someone established with some gravitas and with a familiarity with what BB wants in players but with a better track record of executing. Otherwise I think you're setting that personnel person up for failure.
I'd argue that if Bill is gone and there's a new GM and coach, his shadow will be just as long. It's not easy to follow the GOAT.

I pulled this from a post I made earlier in the thread, it may have gotten lost when it briefly became the QB discussion thread:

The one thing that keeps me thinking this just might not be a done deal (and I admit I could be completely delusional because I want it to be so) is that I'm not entirely convinced he'd be unwilling to scale back his role a bit. Everyone assumes he wants complete control and that's that, but he's a smart guy and I think that may override his ego. He understands the game is changing, and that he is not long for it simply based on his age. At 72, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd welcome a little more off his plate, and would be happy to (mostly) just coach. And just because maybe he doesn't get the last word, I'm pretty sure his voice would still carry a lot of weight.
 
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IdiotKicker

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I’m hoping Bill could buy in to the concept that the new GM is the bridge from him to the next HC when he eventually hangs it up.

That actually makes a lot of sense to me. Bring in a strong GM who can be making decisions in the best interest of the mid/long term future of the franchise. Especially when you have a current GM who’s going to be gone in a couple years at most even if he’s retained.
Yes, I think that can make a lot of sense.

The other piece here, in Bill putting this out there publicly (which he never, ever, ever, ever fucking does) is that it puts all the burden on Kraft now to not fire him. "Hey, I was willing to give up control over stuff that I wasn't great at so I could keep helping the team. He still fired me because he didn't want me." All eyes are now on Kraft now, which is a pretty smart move by BB if he really wants to stay. No one can really look at the situation and say that it was a mutual parting of ways. BB said he wanted to stay. If he goes now, the story is entirely that Kraft wanted him gone completely. And I don't know if Kraft wants that story as opposed to the "We both decided it was time" story.
 

Justthetippett

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https://x.com/rapsheet/status/1744340663125131523?s=46&t=SM8KNBQ5qkrf8EOqnMV5BQ


Two notes:
-- Bill Belichick said he'd be open to relinquishing personnel control if that collectively was viewed to help the team.
-- Asked if he'd want to coach another team, Belichick said he wouldn't discuss hypotheticals.


Bill as coach only perhaps?
Pretty unexpected I have to say. I think this increases the chances he'll stay by a good margin. Are the Krafts really going to be able to sell the idea that he's not the best coach available for the team next year? Hard to believe. Now, who would run personnel and how would that dynamic be? Major questions, obviously. Not Groh. And probably not someone who has been here previously, at least not for the top job. Most of the external candidates out there are rising, like Peters in SF (who scouted here), Halaby in Philly, Borgonzi in KC. Pioli seems too far gone.
 

cshea

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Also are we that surprised by the answer? He didn't really say he'd be willing to cede personnel power and just coach. He said "I'm for whatever we decide collectively as an organization is the best thing for the football team" in response to a question about giving up personnel control. Seemed to me more like his standard "i'll do what's best for the football team" answer.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The one thing that keeps me thinking this just might not be a done deal (and I admit I could be completely delusional because I want it to be so) is that I'm not entirely convinced he'd be unwilling to scale back his role a bit. Everyone assumes he wants complete control and that's that, but he's a smart guy and I think that may override his ego. He understands the game is changing, and that he is not long for it simply based on his age. At 72, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd welcome a little more off his plate, and would be happy to (mostly) just coach. And just because maybe he doesn't get the last word, I'm pretty sure his voice would still carry a lot of weight.
I think it is right that this could be more possible than we think. I think just about any outcome is possible here, from Bill taking the reins of a more established team to him staying in some capacity.

I think the question to ask would be whether Bill has any interest in staying in the organization after he retires from coaching, and, if so, would he be willing to commit now to some type of transition plan? I have zero interest in BB as non-coaching GM, so I wouldn't want that direction, but I think it would be great if he, say, coaches for 2 more years and then becomes the new guy's Ernie Adams. Let him be involved in hiring the new GM, but it must be an outside candidate with his own connections, etc. Let BB make the roster decisions and set some priorities, but the new guy handles finances and the actual draft. Again, no reason to think BB would want to do any of this, but also no reason to be sure he would not.

Edit: Actually, the reason to think he might is what he said in his 7:30 press conference.
 

j44thor

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Caserio is a really interesting name to give full control of the franchise to. He was here for literally all of the good and virtually none of the bad save the last non-Brady season. His record in HOU has obviously been nothing short of amazing and he's only 48. Kraft should bring him in and let him choose between keeping Bill as HC or perhaps bringing over Bobby Slowik who is only 36 and just orchestrated one of the best offensive turn-arounds in modern NFL history with a rookie QB and mostly rookie/1st yr WRs.

Come on home Nick.
 

tims4wins

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He also specifically mentioned this morning that he's under contract - meaning, Kraft would have to fire him to move on. Again, clearly that was intentional.

Honestly, this morning's quotes makes me want him back 100%.
 

Mloaf71

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It also increases the chance of Kraft receiving compensation for him.

Yesterday there were two options: Fire Bill or keep Bill.

Today we’ve added a third: Fire Bill totally, Fire Bill the GM/Keep coach Bill, Keep Bill.

That should allow Kraft to search for a GM while putting feelers out of anyone else wants coach Bill while he is also willing to go into 2024/2025 with a new GM and Coach Bill.
 

Super Nomario

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And it’s not 32 teams that passed on Hurts. A bunch of teams already had good QBs or young QBs that they wanted to see play. The pats were one of the few QB needy teams that said “no, let’s grab this safety instead.”
I think this is revisionist history based on how Hurts' career has played out since. He was consensus 69th on the big board; Philly (who didn't need a QB, or so we thought) surprised by taking him where they did. The Pats took Uche 7 picks later and may have wanted Hurts with that pick (source: me tinfoil hatting based on Nick Caserio comments after the draft).

What does a “step back in coaching” look like, though? It didn’t appear to me that the Patriots were a very well coached team this year, at all. There’s no doubt that BB is an all time great coach, but maybe he’s not the best coach for this team anymore.
To me it's about the styles of players they have defensively and the mileage Belichick got out of the group. Most teams are not looking for 250+ LBs like Bentley and Tavai. Most are looking for classic edge-benders, not power rushers like Judon and Keion White. If they change defensive scheme, there will likely be a lot of turnover on that side of the ball as well. Keeping some defensive continuity will let them focus resources on the offense.

I’m hoping Bill could buy in to the concept that the new GM is the bridge from him to the next HC when he eventually hangs it up.

That actually makes a lot of sense to me. Bring in a strong GM who can be making decisions in the best interest of the mid/long term future of the franchise. Especially when you have a current GM who’s going to be gone in a couple years at most even if he’s retained.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I like the idea of Mayo as a HC but I'm not sure I want him as the top dog on the personnel side, too, and I'm not sure why we'd be giving Matt Groh a promotion based on what we've seen so far. Get a veteran voice, maybe one like Pioli or Dimitroff who already has a relationship with Belichick, help on both sides of the transition to the next head coach.
 

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BB has said that back in his Cleveland days he ended up taking on too much responsibility and that he learned to better delegate to his staff.

Perhaps with the exodus of coaching staff over the past few years he fell into that same trap again. With the offense struggling so badly he may have tried to take on more work in order to try to fix it.
 

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My assumption like many others was that BB wouldn’t want to give up GM duties. If he’s serious about this and not just negotiating publicly I would prefer him to stay as coach only
 

Super Nomario

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Alright, I'm looking at Belichick's comments and I think the media is making too much of this.

Look, I’m for whatever we decide collectively as an organization is the best thing to help our football team. I have multiple roles in that, and I rely on a lot of people to help me in those responsibilities. Somebody’s got to have the final say. I have it. I rely on a lot of other people to help. Whatever that process is, I’m only part of it.
How I parse that is that he's willing to bring someone in, potentially, maybe even a "GM," but to him the important thing is "final say" and it's not at all clear to me that he's willing to give that up.
 

DJnVa

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That says if they collectively agree. Doesn't mean, in the end, he'd agree.

EDIT: As others said. As always, read the thread first.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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We don’t know what his contract says about GM. I think when you have a guaranteed contract and are looking at possibly getting fired, this is kind of what you do — express every willingness to stick to your deal. It gives you the most leverage, whatever your desire. Make the other side believe they are going to have fire you.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Also are we that surprised by the answer? He didn't really say he'd be willing to cede personnel power and just coach. He said "I'm for whatever we decide collectively as an organization is the best thing for the football team" in response to a question about giving up personnel control. Seemed to me more like his standard "i'll do what's best for the football team" answer.
He also said "I'm under contract" so the thought of him walking away is moot. Forcing his hand to make the Krafts fire him.

I disagree what was said above about him not having a market. Season ticket sales are coming up for these bad teams....there will be a line for him to generate excitement by bringing in the HOF coach.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think that it's a bit overblown in terms of him being totally willing, or even what that means, especially in the context of noting that it's really a collaborative role.

I do think it might also be a bit of a sign to teams other than the Patriots to say "If I'm not here, I want to be an NFL coach, and I'm not going to demand full control over the player personnel department". Bill was a fairly attractive plan for a number of teams. If you get only coach Bill he becomes much more attractive.
 

sodenj5

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It feels like this is the best case scenario for both parties.

I think in his heart of hearts, Bill doesn’t want to leave New England. I think the Commanders would give him whatever he wanted. The Chargers or a few other teams would line up to give him a coaching position.

Bill can still coach and coordinate a defense. He absolutely needs help and there needs to be outside opinions brought in on personnel.
 

Manuel Aristides

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I desperately want this to be true. But after watching the NFL yesterday, it seems it is a poorly kept secret that it is over. It is rare that so much of the media speaks with so much implied certainty about this kind of thing. My ideal is that he keeps coaching with someone new GM'ing but... I think @DennyDoyle'sBoil has bingo. You don't draw hard lines in public, especially when you know some fans will want to keep you, you act very flexible in public and then draw hard lines in the negotiating room. I think it's over.
 

CR67dream

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He also said "I'm under contract" so the thought of him walking away is moot. Forcing his hand to make the Krafts fire him.
Yep. Which is why any thought of compensation goes out the window. If anyone wants deeper thoughts, click on the arrow in my quote in post #6.

I disagree what was said above about him not having a market. Season ticket sales are coming up for these bad teams....there will be a line for him.
A long, long line, especially after signaling he doesn't necessarily need to have the Godfather role.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Alright, I'm looking at Belichick's comments and I think the media is making too much of this.



How I parse that is that he's willing to bring someone in, potentially, maybe even a "GM," but to him the important thing is "final say" and it's not at all clear to me that he's willing to give that up.
That's how I read it too.

To me its an attempted non-answer - straight out of the "we'll take a decision that is best for the football team" playbook of Bill Belichick non-answers to any question - that by including the stuff about "final say" actually hints that he isn't really willing to give up true power.
 

CR67dream

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That's how I read it too.

To me its an attempted non-answer - straight out of the "we'll take a decision that is best for the football team" playbook of Bill Belichick non-answers to any question - that by including the stuff about "final say" actually hints that he isn't really willing to give up true power.
Maybe so, but I just don't read it that way. And the "under contract" comment is really the most telling. If he's gone, he's going to make Kraft own it.
 

Sille Skrub

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I would love for him to stay on as HC only.

Hire a GM, both are direct reports to RKK. A less desirable outcome is the GM picks 90 of the groceries and BB can pare the list to his 53.

I added a question mark to the thread title because this could easily read:

"If it is in the best interest of the franchise for someone other than me to have the final say, then I agree with the decision. Good luck everyone."
 

Jinhocho

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Alright, I'm looking at Belichick's comments and I think the media is making too much of this.



How I parse that is that he's willing to bring someone in, potentially, maybe even a "GM," but to him the important thing is "final say" and it's not at all clear to me that he's willing to give that up.
I listened to it and I did not get sense he was saying he would give up control, but rather they could tweak the process of they thought it would work better but someone needs to be in charge.
 

Steve Dillard

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That's how I read it too.

To me its an attempted non-answer - straight out of the "we'll take a decision that is best for the football team" playbook of Bill Belichick non-answers to any question - that by including the stuff about "final say" actually hints that he isn't really willing to give up true power.
I have a contractual right to final say, so if Kraft wants to put in a token GM, fine, I'll play along. But if you take away my final say you are breaching my contract. So you're going to have to fire me to get rid of me, meaning no compensation to you.
 

astrozombie

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My takeways: first, BB has spoken like this ("we did what was good for the team") for forever. Cut Milloy? Good for the team. Bench Douglas after a fumble? Good for the team. Staple Butler to the bench in the SB? Good for the team. Continue to play Mac? Good for the team. Sign Haynesworth? Good for the team. I don't think him saying he's open to things to improve is a sign of anything, because he has always said it and it has always gone unquestioned because In Bill We Trust (tm). Second, I just don't think he is going to give up control that easily. He's in a unique position that he frankly earned and telling him he's no longer going to get those privileges is a tough pill to swallow. And what happens when [GM x] drafts some OT in the fourth round who Bill refuses to play "For the good of the team"? Or doesn't play anyone this GM gets. It is going to look like a power play. I am pretty sure that if Thornton was drafted by someone other than BB, he would already be on some other team's practice squad.
I always got the sense that during the early dynasty years, Pioli and BB worked really well together. BB needed a player who could do [whatever it was], Pioli would scout around and find some people who could do that and then they would collectively agree on who it was (BB signed off, Pioli made it happen). It seemed like after awhile Pioli got a little irked for BB taking all the credit, left and BB just assumed the role entirely. I won't say it went to his head, but his drafts since about 2012 have had more hits than misses. I've heard coordinators say that in the coaches room, Bill truly is open - no bad ideas, no ego, what's the best scheme to run? It doesn't seem like it's that way in the FO.
 

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Petagine in a Bottle

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Also are we that surprised by the answer? He didn't really say he'd be willing to cede personnel power and just coach. He said "I'm for whatever we decide collectively as an organization is the best thing for the football team" in response to a question about giving up personnel control. Seemed to me more like his standard "i'll do what's best for the football team" answer.
Yeah, the leap to “Bill open to giving up GM duties” seems like a massive stretch.
 

GPO Man

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It’s going to come down to what Kraft wants to do. I’m sure the conversation will be something like “Bill, we had a bad season and everyone wants to do better. What do you think about how we can turn it around?” Bill responds “I’ll do whatever is best for the team.” Kraft may be ready to fire him going into the meeting, but I can see him changing his mind. It would be hard to fire Bill in person, unless Kraft gets the sense that Bill doesn’t want to be there any longer.
 

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Maybe so, but I just don't read it that way. And the "under contract" comment is really the most telling. If he's gone, he's going to make Kraft own it.
Yup. There will be no compensation coming back for BB. If Kraft wants him gone he's going to have to fire him.
 

Jungleland

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Rapoport’s read on it feels optimistic after digging in on the actual quote a bit more. But I still read that response as Bill wanting to be here, or wanting it to be as painful as possible for Kraft to get him out, and both of those things feel significant to me.
 

Ralphwiggum

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After reading the comments I agree it is a massive leap from what he said to him actually being willing to cede complete control over football operations.

IMO the purpose of his statement was to make it clear he intends to continue to do his job here in New England unless and until Kraft fires him.
 

CR67dream

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I’ve been told he’d never do this. He would force Kraft to fire him first.
That's not what you were told. You were told that Kraft doesn't have the power to force Bill to relinquish his GM duties, and could not force him to be part of a deal for compensation. And then you suggested Kraft could make Bill's life miserable if he didn't agree to it by sabotaging the 2024 season. I posted my thoughts about Bill possibly agreeing to a reduced role in the BB/Pats thread at 8:48 last night, before I commented on your thoughts in the draft thread.

And really, what we have here is Bill forcing Kraft's hand. What are you doing here?
 

ManicCompression

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I think this is revisionist history based on how Hurts' career has played out since. He was consensus 69th on the big board; Philly (who didn't need a QB, or so we thought) surprised by taking him where they did. The Pats took Uche 7 picks later and may have wanted Hurts with that pick (source: me tinfoil hatting based on Nick Caserio comments after the draft).
I've said this in other posts, but I don't find the idea of a "consensus big board" to be compelling when it comes to Patriots draft picks. BB doesn't pay attention to the consensus, he's one of the few teams that doesn't use the scouting services that create the consensus, he drafts players wherever he wants - why should we use them as a guide post? BB gets the benefit for saying "fuck the consensus" when he drafts Cole Strange or Kyle Duggar but it's also protection when he mis-evaluates a pick (going with the consensus on Mac Jones... N'Keal Harry...)?

I was responding to a poster who said that the only opportunity for the Patriots to draft a QB was with the 15th pick in 2021, so there wasn't a toolsy guy available, just Mac Jones. It wasn't, because there was a whole draft a year earlier in which they passed on a toolsy QB. And I was pushing back on the idea that 32 teams passed on him - in reality, only Washington, Carolina, Jacksonville, Denver, and Chicago (5 teams) passed on Hurts because every other team had either picked a QB in recent years, or had a veteran QB in place (I went through the entire draft of teams before the Hurts pick and can show my work if you want, but that would result in an extremely long post). 5 teams not necessarily known for great decision-making skills.

Yes, Hurts worked out better than you'd expect for a second round QB, but surely it says something that the Patriots were one of six teams with a gaping hole at quarterback that draft and they elected to pick a safety (who was 55 on the consensus big board) at 37. That's not to slam on Duggar, he's been good, but everyone keeps saying that QB is the primary thing that matters when it comes to building a team (I agree), so if the Patriots supposedly liked Hurts, why the hell are they drafting a safety there, OR why the hell are they waiting for him to drop to them at 60 instead of going up to grab him?
 

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This is a man recognizing his limitations, and even with those, he's the best head coach on the market by a mile. Bill staying with a new GM type who can both build a team for him to coach and be the link to whomever eventually succeeds him would be the best of all possible options this offseason.
 

Arroyoyo

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That's not what you were told. You were told that Kraft doesn't have the power to force Bill to relinquish his GM duties, and could not force him to be part of a deal for compensation. And then you suggested Kraft could make Bill's life miserable if he didn't agree to it by sabotaging the 2024 season. I posted my thoughts about Bill possibly agreeing to a reduced role in the BB/Pats thread at 8:48 last night, before I commented on your thoughts in the draft thread.

And really, what we have here is Bill forcing Kraft's hand. What are you doing here?
How is this Bill forcing Kraft’s hand?
 
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How is this Bill forcing Kraft’s hand?
He is signaling he is willing to come back and that Kraft will have to fire him if he wants someone else running things.

I interpeted it as BB saying "I don't care where I coach but if its not in New England I will have to be fired not traded". I don't have the quote handy but he has stated in the past that trading a coach for draft pick compensation is dumb and he probably would just refuse to go to an organization if they did so.

Edited to remove the speculation he'd be willing to relinquish GM duties if staying in NE.
 
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Petagine in a Bottle

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He is signaling he is willing to come back maybe even in a reduced role and that Kraft will have to fire him if he wants someone else as coach.

I interpeted it as BB saying "I don't care where I coach but if its not in New England I will have to be fired not traded". I don't have the quote handy but he has stated in the past that trading a coach for draft pick compensation is dumb and he probably would just refuse to go to an organization if they did so.
I don’t think he is signaling anything about a reduced role. He’s saying that his role could change if it is something mutually agreed to. As usual, he’s not saying anything. This is a nothing burger.
 

CR67dream

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How is this Bill forcing Kraft’s hand?
By making clear that he's under contract, and that his contract gives him full control over football operations, he's saying that Kraft will have to fire him to change that. Unless he agrees to some changes, which it looks like he may just be willing to do. Or it may just be BB saying if you want me gone, you're going to have to fire me and own it. There will be no compensation. It's not complicated.