Baseball Is Broken (on the field, proposed rule changes, attendance, etc.)

edoug

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Jul 15, 2005
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I like the roster changes but no pitch clock? JFC.
I like the pitch clock. Make the pitcher throw the damn ball. They know what pitch they're going to throw anyway. For those against a pitch clock I have two words: Steve Trachsel. I don't think you have to speed up the game just have less time players are standing around doing nothing.
 

tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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I can’t believe they are moving forward with the 3 batter minimum. That is a legitimate change to the rules and fabric of the game. Rosters and pitch clock don’t affect how the game is played nearly as much. This is horrible.
 

charlieoscar

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Sep 28, 2014
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I can’t believe they are moving forward with the 3 batter minimum. That is a legitimate change to the rules and fabric of the game. Rosters and pitch clock don’t affect how the game is played nearly as much. This is horrible.
In 1945 the All Star Game was cancelled and most teams played charity exhibition games during the break. The St. Louis Browns, using a new pitcher every inning, beat the Cardinals, 3-0. The Cardinals four pitchers worked two innings each. In spite of 11 pitching changes, game time was one hour, 31 minutes. -- 2018 Briefs by SABR member Bill Deane [somewhat paraphrased].
 

jon abbey

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Let's see what the full language is on the 3 batter thing, earlier they were reporting this was '3 batters or the end of an inning', which is much better if so.
 

soxhop411

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Per Rosenthal, 26 man roster with 13 pitcher max, and 28 man Sept roster (14 pitchers) is close to a done deal. So is 3 batter minimum for relievers (no mention of what happens with an injury). No pitch clock
3 batter minimum is horrific, teams will circumvent it as necessary. I hate that's a concession the players' union is willing to make.

what if a reliever ends up having a 15+ pitch battle with the first batter, and he's on a 20 pitch limit?
I can’t believe they are moving forward with the 3 batter minimum. That is a legitimate change to the rules and fabric of the game. Rosters and pitch clock don’t affect how the game is played nearly as much. This is horrible.
In 1945 the All Star Game was cancelled and most teams played charity exhibition games during the break. The St. Louis Browns, using a new pitcher every inning, beat the Cardinals, 3-0. The Cardinals four pitchers worked two innings each. In spite of 11 pitching changes, game time was one hour, 31 minutes. -- 2018 Briefs by SABR member Bill Deane [somewhat paraphrased].
Let's see what the full language is on the 3 batter thing, earlier they were reporting this was '3 batters or the end of an inning', which is much better if so.
That Rosenthal piece is old...

The AP says the MLBPA plans to REJECT the three batter minimum


NEW YORK (AP) — Major League Baseball and the players’ union are near an agreement to expand active rosters by one to 26 starting in 2020 as part of a deal that would include a commitment to discuss larger economic issues after opening day this year.

As part of the deal, the active limit from Sept. 1 to the end of the season would be lowered from 40 to 28 beginning next year, people familiar with the negotiations told The Associated Press. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because the agreement had not yet been finalized.
A limitation on September call-ups would end parades of relief pitchers that cause some games to stretch on.

There would be a maximum of 13 pitchers for most of the season and 14 from Sept. 1 on, the people said. The minimum roster size would increase from 24 to 25.

The new 26-player maximum also would apply to the postseason.

The commitment for a discussion of the larger economic issues is a key for the union after consecutive slow free-agent markets that have seen dozens of players sign on the eve of spring training and after workouts were underway. Players have proposed changes such as expanding the designated hitter to the National League and altering the amateur draft to discourage the number of teams jettisoning veterans during a season in favor of rebuilding.
The agreement also would include:

—increasing in the regular injured list minimum for pitchers and the minimum option recall time for pitchers from 10 to 15 days beginning in 2020.

—starting extra innings of the All-Star Game with a runner on second base.

—giving MLB the right to shorten between-inning breaks.

The union planned to reject MLB’s proposal for a three-batter minimum for pitchers, leaving MLB with the right to implement that unilaterally for 2020. Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred has said he is reluctant to change playing rules without an agreement with players.
https://www.apnews.com/65f119ae2a264b5b8210e25e82ae4508
 

MakeMineMoxie

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I like the pitch clock. Make the pitcher throw the damn ball. They know what pitch they're going to throw anyway. For those against a pitch clock I have two words: Steve Trachsel. I don't think you have to speed up the game just have less time players are standing around doing nothing.
Preach it, Brother! The other day, I had a horrible thought, Steve Trachsel pitching to Mike Hargrove.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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Jul 21, 2005
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I wasn't sure if this belonged here or a separate thread in the minor league forum but the Atlantic League and MLB announced rule changes today they are:

The slate of rule changes to be implemented in the Atlantic League are as follows:

  • Home plate umpire assisted in calling balls and strikes by a TrackMan radar tracking system.
  • No mound visits permitted by players or coaches other than for pitching changes or medical issues.
  • Pitchers must face a minimum of three batters, or reach the end of an inning before they exit the game, unless the pitcher becomes injured.
  • Increase the size of 1st, 2nd and 3rd base from 15 inches square to 18 inches square.
  • Require two infielders to be on each side of second base when a pitch is released (if not, the ball is dead and the umpire shall call a ball).
  • Time between innings and pitching changes reduced from 2:05 to 1:45.
  • Distance from pitching rubber to home plate extended 24 inches, in the second half of the season only; with no change to mound height or shape.
I saw this in a tweet and thought the last one was a joke. What in the holy hell are they thinking with that? How is that not a recipe for injury to pitchers? Also not sure of the reasoning of the base size increase because the article didn't explain it.
 

SirPsychoSquints

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I wasn't sure if this belonged here or a separate thread in the minor league forum but the Atlantic League and MLB announced rule changes today they are:



I saw this in a tweet and thought the last one was a joke. What in the holy hell are they thinking with that? How is that not a recipe for injury to pitchers? Also not sure of the reasoning of the base size increase because the article didn't explain it.
We talked about it a bit in this thread on the Atlantic League partnership: http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/atlantic-league-expected-to-test-robot-umps-other-changes-from-new-mlb-agreement.26393/#post-3294543
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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I wasn't sure if this belonged here or a separate thread in the minor league forum but the Atlantic League and MLB announced rule changes today they are:



I saw this in a tweet and thought the last one was a joke. What in the holy hell are they thinking with that? How is that not a recipe for injury to pitchers? Also not sure of the reasoning of the base size increase because the article didn't explain it.
Why would they institute a huge change like moving the pitcher's mound in the middle of the season? That seems, well, really dumb.
 

Plympton91

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Maybe safety concerns, so the there’s more room both for the fielder’s and the runner’s foot on a bang-bang play?
It makes it a little easier to steal bases, I think. The space between bases is actually 3 inches smaller now.

Why would they institute a huge change like moving the pitcher's mound in the middle of the season? That seems, well, really dumb.
Experimental design. You can look at how players did in the month before the break and the month after the break. If you did it across multiple seasons a lot more variables would change.

I think it’s going to be a disaster. Pitchers have their command tuned to 60’6’’. Moving back 2 feet is going to be a walk fest in addition to letting hitters see the ball longer. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average number of runs doubles.
 

Danny_Darwin

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The banning the shift thing continues to baffle me - I don’t see how that doesn’t result in further motivating pitchers to strike everyone out, leading to even more of the TTO-ball that (some) people dislike so much.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Experimental design. You can look at how players did in the month before the break and the month after the break. If you did it across multiple seasons a lot more variables would change.

I think it’s going to be a disaster. Pitchers have their command tuned to 60’6’’. Moving back 2 feet is going to be a walk fest in addition to letting hitters see the ball longer. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average number of runs doubles.
If that is true, that is even dumber than I thought possible. Well, at least one good thing will come out of it - they'll get to measure how many more injuries there will be if pitchers have to adapt to a new distance in the middle of a season.
 

charlieoscar

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Sep 28, 2014
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It makes it a little easier to steal bases, I think. The space between bases is actually 3 inches smaller now.
Isn't more than that? Making first base three inches wider means that it will be that much closer to second base. But the size of second base is also being expanded, yes?
 

Plympton91

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Isn't more than that? Making first base three inches wider means that it will be that much closer to second base. But the size of second base is also being expanded, yes?
I think you’re right. All of first base (and 3rd) needs to be in fair territory, so the full 3 inches on that plane would extend toward second. But, assuming second base remains centered where it was, only half the increased size, 1-1/2 inches, would extend toward first (and third) with the other half extending toward the back of the base. So it would shorten distance between 1st and 2nd and 2nd and 3rd by 4-1/2 inches.
 

DrewDawg

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Some rule changes to be announced including 26 man rosters and September roster size of 28, with 14 pitcher max.

Also, no more waiver deals, one trade deadline.

Link soon...
 

nattysez

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I was at Spring Training this weekend. It looks like the pitch clock stops when the pitcher gets set. Pitchers were generally getting into position with at least 5 seconds left on the clock, so this doesn't seem like it'll be a huge adjustment. What's likely going to happen is guys who take a long time on the mound now will get into the set position within the allotted time, then hold the set longer while catching their breath or getting their mind right or whatever.
 

Danny_Darwin

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Some rule changes to be announced including 26 man rosters and September roster size of 28, with 14 pitcher max.

Also, no more waiver deals, one trade deadline.

Link soon...
Surprised this isn't getting more attention. One deadline is probably the best way to go, but July 31 is a little early still. And, of course, some significant trades have gone down during the August trading period, including one that Red Sox fans probably remember pretty well...

 

edoug

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Surprised this isn't getting more attention. One deadline is probably the best way to go, but July 31 is a little early still. And, of course, some significant trades have gone down during the August trading period, including one that Red Sox fans probably remember pretty well...

Yeah but It's really sad that their plane was shot down over the Sea of Japan and there were no survivors.
 

adam42381

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The winner of the Home Run Derby will get $1M starting this year, and since that is more than Judge or Sanchez make for the whole season, I'm guessing both of them and any other prominent pre-arb sluggers will be back in it this summer.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26259301/sources-mlb-deal-includes-1m-hr-derby-bonus
Hopefully they’ll either enforce the rules or allow players to swing as quickly as they can like Harper did. The million dollar bonus just gives more incentive to cheat if not.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I haven't seen the inning end part in writing and I have googled until my Google finger has worn out.

I could see the injury thing requiring a removed pitcher to be ineligible for the next 2 or 3 games. Which would allow the IL (not DL) as appropriate, but would reduce the chance of a fake injury
 

SirPsychoSquints

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I haven't seen the inning end part in writing and I have googled until my Google finger has worn out.

I could see the injury thing requiring a removed pitcher to be ineligible for the next 2 or 3 games. Which would allow the IL (not DL) as appropriate, but would reduce the chance of a fake injury
The rules, as instituted in the Atlantic League this year:
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/new-mlb-atlantic-league-rule-changes
Pitchers must face a minimum of three batters, or reach the end of an inning before they exit the game, unless the pitcher becomes injured
 

Lose Remerswaal

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No one is asking for incontrovertible proof.

Just asking about injuries, mostly. Nowhere is the injury component discussed

And confirm on how they will handle End of Inning. It is kind of odd a change of this magnitude is being leaked (?) without full info
 

DrewDawg

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No one is asking for incontrovertible proof.

Just asking about injuries, mostly. Nowhere is the injury component discussed

And confirm on how they will handle End of Inning. It is kind of odd a change of this magnitude is being leaked (?) without full info
Leaks usually don't have all the info.
 

DrewDawg

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Other changes:

All Star voting done in 2 rounds. Top 3 will advance to a one day vote off for starters.
Extra innings in ASG will start with runner on second.

In 2020, the DL will move back to 15 days from 10 as teams took advantage of it, rotating relievers, leading to more pitching changes.
 

Ananti

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Actually saw one proposal that I really like without the 3 batter rule. No warm up pitches for relievers brought into the game in the middle of an inning, they have to pitch right away. If they are brought in at the beginning of the inning they get the same warm up pitch as normal.

This will shorten the game as it makes pitching changes go by a lot a quicker, it also makes it a lot more risky to bring in a reliever in the middle of the inning, you better be sure that guy is ready to come in before you bring him in. Thus reducing the frequency of middle of the inning pitching changes.
 

Plympton91

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I can’t believe the union is throwing LOOGIES under the bus just when an extra roster spot is being created for them. Eduardo Perez made a point that it also reduces the value of right handed mashers as pinch hitters.

The 26 man roster seems a way for owners to buy off the union on expansion, as it adds 60% of the jobs expanding by 2 teams would. Expansion would be better for everyone except the current 30 owners.
 

Captaincoop

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This should be really interesting in practice. How many times does a pitcher feel a twinge in their elbow and get pulled out of caution and then it turns out to be nothing?

Does this rule need a requirement for days off the active roster following an injury removal? Or do you let pitchers grab their shoulder every time they give up two hits and have a lefty on deck?

Just seems ripe for flawed implementation.
 
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SirPsychoSquints

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I can’t believe the union is throwing LOOGIES under the bus just when an extra roster spot is being created for them. Eduardo Perez made a point that it also reduces the value of right handed mashers as pinch hitters.

The 26 man roster seems a way for owners to buy off the union on expansion, as it adds 60% of the jobs expanding by 2 teams would. Expansion would be better for everyone except the current 30 owners.
I don't think LOOGYs are as common as they used to be. I see 16 lefties in 2018 that had at least 20 appearances of 1 or 2 batters. Several of these appearances ended a game, and more likely ended an inning.

Looking at the most prolific such pitcher, Andrew Chafin, only 23 of his 35 such appearances would have run afoul of these rules. The other 12 either spanned multiple innings or resulted in the end of an inning. Chafin also had 42 other appearances of 3 or more batters.

Edit: Data: https://www.baseball-reference.com/tiny/eB2WR
 

OurF'ingCity

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This should be really interesting in practice. How many times does a pitcher feel a twinge in their elbow and get pulled out of caution and then it turns out to be nothing?

Does this rule need a requirement for days off the active roster following an injury removal? Or do you let pitchers grab their shoulder every time they give up two hits and have a lefty on deck?

Just seems ripe for flawed implementation.
Right - I don't see how they can make this workable either way. If a pitcher can be put into the next game after being taken out before 3 batters for "injury," pitchers and teams will just fake injuries all the time or at least be way oversensitive to any minor pains that they can label an "injury" (by August if not earlier I am sure all relief pitchers have minor aches and pains they are dealing with).

If a pitcher taken out for injury has to then be removed from the active roster (or otherwise prevented from pitching) for a certain number of days, however, that will almost certainly lead to MORE injuries to good relievers because teams and, likely, the pitchers themselves will be reluctant to declare an "injury" during their appearance, especially if a big series is coming up, the bullpen is already depleted, etc. It's not going to take long before a good pitcher feels a tweak in a joint that, in the absence of this rule, would result in his being taken out of a game but where the pitcher instead tries to grit it out only to aggravate the pain and actually be rendered injured for a longer period of time.
 

Captaincoop

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Right - I don't see how they can make this workable either way. If a pitcher can be put into the next game after being taken out before 3 batters for "injury," pitchers and teams will just fake injuries all the time or at least be way oversensitive to any minor pains that they can label an "injury" (by August if not earlier I am sure all relief pitchers have minor aches and pains they are dealing with).

If a pitcher taken out for injury has to then be removed from the active roster (or otherwise prevented from pitching) for a certain number of days, however, that will almost certainly lead to MORE injuries to good relievers because teams and, likely, the pitchers themselves will be reluctant to declare an "injury" during their appearance, especially if a big series is coming up, the bullpen is already depleted, etc. It's not going to take long before a good pitcher feels a tweak in a joint that, in the absence of this rule, would result in his being taken out of a game but where the pitcher instead tries to grit it out only to aggravate the pain and actually be rendered injured for a longer period of time.
In an important game or series, a manager with his job or season on the line is not going to hesitate for a second to have a player removed for an "injury" if it gives him an advantage.

Heck, what do you do in a game 7 when this happens? Fine, make me sit the first two games of the next series (or next year).

It's not like MLB can aggressively police this, since if ONE guy gets seriously hurt because a team was concerned about getting disciplined for a "fake" injury, it would be a bigger shitshow than 100 incidences where teams get away with faking one.

It's almost analogous to the "injuries" that inevitably pop up on a defense when the offense is rolling in a no-huddle.
 

BigJimEd

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According to Jayson Stark, the league implemented it unilaterally.

That's interesting. Does not seem like a rule that should be enacted unilaterally. Surprised MLBPA isn't fighting it more.

Really not looking the Manfred reign