Higher. Significantly higher.90% of bettors lose money long term.
Higher. Significantly higher.90% of bettors lose money long term.
I believe the difference is that Marcano was found to have bet on his own team's games and the others bet on games that they were not directly involved in. Of course, that could be due to the fact that they were in the minors at the time. Their saving grace may just have been that they were not good enough to be called up.For the 4 who got 1 year suspensions: is that because they were on MiLB rosters and not MLB ones? I don't follow baseball like I used to, but I thought betting at any stage/amount with regards to the game was verboten.
As players they're literally never told to do it, there's no mixed message. There's zero chance every one of these players didn't know what they were doing was 100% not allowed and their careers would be fucked if they got caught.My very first sentence was, "yes, it's is all on the players", right? What I'm saying is that there are mixed messages sent to these kids, with the biggest message arriving over the noise is that "betting is easy and you can win a lot of money. Take out your phone and do it. Right now!"
Of course, they're told not to do it. But how many times? Now think about how many times a day they're told TO do it. Just a bet. We'll make it easy for you and give you x amount of dollars so that your first bet is free.
I don't know. I think a year's suspension for betting on games when you're in the minors sends some mixed messages.As players they're literally never told to do it, there's no mixed message. There's zero chance every one of these players didn't know what they were doing was 100% not allowed and their careers would be fucked if they got caught.
Who to blame when people do drugs? Those using or those pushing the drugs?My very first sentence was, "yes, it's is all on the players", right? What I'm saying is that there are mixed messages sent to these kids, with the biggest message arriving over the noise is that "betting is easy and you can win a lot of money. Take out your phone and do it. Right now!"
Of course, they're told not to do it. But how many times? Now think about how many times a day they're told TO do it. Just a bet. We'll make it easy for you and give you x amount of dollars so that your first bet is free.
I mean I place this blame at the feet of the players, but there is culpability for the MLB and the law makers who pushed for betting to be legal. Did they really think that none of the players would bet on their sports? Ever? And that some of them might be screwing around with the outcomes?
There's no way to put the toothpaste back in the tube, gambling is here to stay. But MLB just sidestepped a major black eye with the Ohtani mess. This is something that's going to happen a lot and I'm not sure what the answer is to remedy it. But I know that a few words at Spring Training about the "evils of gambling" and hoping that all professional players act on the honor system and don't bet on MLB games isn't the solution. Per usual MLB didn't ask any more questions than, "How much money and when can we get it?" when they signed on with the betting companies and now it's starting to bite them a little bit. The next time it might be a bigger bite. Then a scandal.
So you're right, this is the player's faults. BUT it's also MLB's fault for not ensuring safeguards to keep their product and their players safe.
I'm not sure exactly what you're going for here. I'm don't think that"blame" is the right word to use here as I'd argue someone with a chemical dependency is not really to "blame" as their addiction is an illness. Besides that I don't think that drug use is an issue of morality, so for me the issue of blame is not on the table.Who to blame when people do drugs? Those using or those pushing the drugs?
You have to blame the people doing the drugs, right? But at the same time, when people push it and make it so easy to get them, they have to shoulder the part of this that's their responsibility as well.
Like a lot of things over which they get fucked, people do them anyway. But I dont think "personal responsibility" is either the point of this discussion or something that *anyone* has questioned. The players can be (and are) responsible for what they've done. (IMO, most of them know its "wrong," just as they know the needles in the ass are wrong). And the owners can be responsible when some players start fucking around with the actual integrity of the game. It's just a matter of time. And it doesn;t have to actually happen. Just the wondering if it did happen on *that* weird play is a problem for the owners.As players they're literally never told to do it, there's no mixed message. There's zero chance every one of these players didn't know what they were doing was 100% not allowed and their careers would be fucked if they got caught.
That makes sense, thanksI believe the difference is that Marcano was found to have bet on his own team's games and the others bet on games that they were not directly involved in. Of course, that could be due to the fact that they were in the minors at the time. Their saving grace may just have been that they were not good enough to be called up.
The biggest message is from the league not to bet, especially on baseball. There is no mixed message as a professional player. It’s maybe the one thing MLB makes crystal clear in policy.My very first sentence was, "yes, it's is all on the players", right? What I'm saying is that there are mixed messages sent to these kids, with the biggest message arriving over the noise is that "betting is easy and you can win a lot of money. Take out your phone and do it. Right now!"
This is ridiculous. They need to exercise the minimal amount of self control to not bet on baseball. Thats why we’re talking about a handful of players across MLB/MiLB.Of course, they're told not to do it. But how many times? Now think about how many times a day they're told TO do it. Just a bet. We'll make it easy for you and give you x amount of dollars so that your first bet is free.
Of course they did. There’s still no “culpability” here for MLB, who have always made clear what the line of the rules is.I mean I place this blame at the feet of the players, but there is culpability for the MLB and the law makers who pushed for betting to be legal. Did they really think that none of the players would bet on their sports? Ever? And that some of them might be screwing around with the outcomes?
They’ll live with it and hope they don’t have to make a stay or go decision on a huge star like Ohtani. But the money faucet is probably still “worth it” for the league even if that happens. These players are no loss to them, so easy to send a message.There's no way to put the toothpaste back in the tube, gambling is here to stay. But MLB just sidestepped a major black eye with the Ohtani mess. This is something that's going to happen a lot and I'm not sure what the answer is to remedy it. But I know that a few words at Spring Training about the "evils of gambling" and hoping that all professional players act on the honor system and don't bet on MLB games isn't the solution. Per usual MLB didn't ask any more questions than, "How much money and when can we get it?" when they signed on with the betting companies and now it's starting to bite them a little bit. The next time it might be a bigger bite. Then a scandal.
What would you have them do? Monitor phone activity? At what point have they made clear enough what’s against the rules for the players to own the responsibility?So you're right, this is the player's faults. BUT it's also MLB's fault for not ensuring safeguards to keep their product and their players safe.
Why are the owners responsible if a player fixes a game? Because they told fans "hey you should bet on our league"?Like a lot of things over which they get fucked, people do them anyway. But I dont think "personal responsibility" is either the point of this discussion or something that *anyone* has questioned. The players can be (and are) responsible for what they've done. (IMO, most of them know its "wrong," just as they know the needles in the ass are wrong). And the owners can be responsible when some players start fucking around with the actual integrity of the game. It's just a matter of time. And it doesn;t have to actually happen. Just the wondering if it did happen on *that* weird play is a problem for the owners.
Isn't this supposed to be sports?This is a mildly different opinion, but I think something in society really needs to be done to give better avenues for our young male population to not be shitheads.
There's been a lot written in recent years about males being behind girls in academics, both in secondary and post-secondary.
There's gambling, but there's all the incel culture with losers like Andrew Tate. There's a bunch of men throwing money on fire with fandoms of either online streamers, or onlyfans, or whatever.
We have a culture in America right now that just promotes a lot of men to be losers in their twenties and thirties. Is that the reason people like Groome are throwing away hundreds on parlays? No, but it doesn't help.
I almost feel like a prude saying this, and I'm not, but I feel like the state of affairs for young men in the country is grim.
I think the fact that all commentary, old media and new, is tied in with gambling -due to the sports' tie in with gambling -- makes such fixing more likely.Why are the owners responsible if a player fixes a game? Because they told fans "hey you should bet on our league"?
"Blame" may not have been the best word choice for me. I'm just talking about who is responsible, that's all. And drug use was just an illustration. Every person has his or her own choice to make whether to start drinking or doing drugs or vaping or gambling or whatever other behavior it is we're focusing on. Gambling is the issue in this thread. But we all know that it's harder to say no to something when it's pushed in your face constantly.I'm not sure exactly what you're going for here. I'm don't think that"blame" is the right word to use here as I'd argue someone with a chemical dependency is not really to "blame" as their addiction is an illness. Besides that I don't think that drug use is an issue of morality, so for me the issue of blame is not on the table.
But to use your word, if you want to assess "blame" for addicts, I'd say that everyone has their own choices to make and the person starting to take drugs is probably the one who receives the lion's share. However chemical addiction is not that cut and dried, there's a million other reasons that can push a person into serious drug use.
I'm not sure how this is relevant to betting though. I've never seen Dan Plesac on MLB Tonight telling the audience about the time he got an 8-ball after a Brewers game and where those kids can score the same stuff.
I don't know. These dudes are hanging by a thread (Kelly is 31, Groome, once a top 50ish prospect has never reached the majors, Saalfrank is 26 and has had a cup of coffee) and a year off when they are scrapping to get a big-league paycheck in return for a $15 parlay paying $200 doesn't seem all that smart.I don't know. I think a year's suspension for betting on games when you're in the minors sends some mixed messages.
The calculation here might be that you don't really have not to bet until you're in the majors or are appearing in a game.
This analogy feels needlessly provocative.This is like putting the blame on video game developers for school shootings.
It's a poor analogy. It's more like:This analogy feels needlessly provocative.
It feels like you and I are on the same page here.The players who gamble are "at fault", or "to blame", or "are responsible" for their gambling, for their betting on baseball. They made the choice to do so. But baseball - and pro sports now - pushes gambling (sports gambling in particular) in everyone's face almost nonstop. They're not making it easy for these guys to say no, let's just put it that way.
This is what I'm saying. The players are ultimately responsible but at the same time, MLB (and all pro sport leagues) was given a dump truck full of money to get in bed with gamblers (something that has been absolutely verboten since 1920) and they didn't really look more than a foot down the road as to how this will affect anything other than their wallets. Every few weeks we're hearing about another athlete getting in trouble with their league for gambling. The only tool that these leagues use is a hammer. I don't think that that's going to work.No one is arguing that the players aren’t responsible. Rather, people are pointing out the massive hypocrisy of the sports leagues deciding to form a partnership with gaming companies to promote the very actions they had previously identified as a danger to the integrity of the game.
Of course there is. When you have constant gambling commercials--I mean content--running in pregame, postgame and during the games "Hey fans it's the FanDuel Funky Fifth inning parlay brought to you by the fine folks at Draft Kings and MGM, just log on to your phone and make a bet -- it's super simple!" and then you have maybe one or two club house meetings during the year with someone telling you not to gamble, which message do you think is going to be heard more?The biggest message is from the league not to bet, especially on baseball. There is no mixed message as a professional player. It’s maybe the one thing MLB makes crystal clear in policy.
Who got caught yesterday. There's going to be more. A lot more. Let's flip it around, how much self control would it have been needed for Manfred and the owners to put together a well-thought out plan as to how to introduce legalized gambling into baseball? A plan that would include the players as partners so that they're not tempted to gamble. But they didn't because they saw the dollar signs and forgot about everything else. This is the same short sighted, profits before anything, bullshit that the Manfred administration is infamous for. Just put it on the pile with the reduction of the minor leagues, the reduction of the draft, ads on uniforms, letting the A's move to Las Vegas, the NIke/Fanatics redesign and the countless other things that he and his cronies have pushed through.This is ridiculous. They need to exercise the minimal amount of self control to not bet on baseball. Thats why we’re talking about a handful of players across MLB/MiLB.
Okay. So instead of being proactive, it's better to be reactive. Like I said, the EPL has already gone down this road and it's not pretty for either the players or the fans. But as long as the money faucet is pumping out that green stuff, it's all worth it.They’ll live with it and hope they don’t have to make a stay or go decision on a huge star like Ohtani. But the money faucet is probably still “worth it” for the league even if that happens. These players are no loss to them, so easy to send a message.
I don't know. This isn't my area of expertise, but I can tell you what they're doing right now is not right and there appears to be no foresight in anticipating and handling this inevitable mess. And it's only going to get worse. But Fisher and Henry and the Steinbrenners and everyone else got paid.What would you have them do? Monitor phone activity? At what point have they made clear enough what’s against the rules for the players to own the responsibility?
This no proof Ohtani bet on baseball, while I'm willing to bet FanDuel or DraftKings has accounts where these guys either used their real name or were not very good at covering their tracks.Ah so this is what happens when you not the best player in the league i see...
No one was being caught or penalized for any of those things. Then baseball reacted and started penalizing players, and some players kept doing them anyway. Catching and harshly penalizing players for gambling on baseball early on in this era of gambling seems the exact opposite to being reactive. But I suppose they should have had a plan to partner with the players to convince them not to gamble or whatever it was you suggested without giving even the slightest hint of what this imaginary plan could possibly look like to mean anything.Baseball should have learned its lesson 20 years ago when steroids came on the scene and they turned a blind eye to it. Or in the 80s when cocaine was running rampet. Or in the 60s when amphetamines were all the rage. But they were reactive to all of those things, so I guess it's not a shock that they're reactive to this too.
There hasn’t been proof that Ohtani bet on baseball.This no proof Ohtani bet on baseball, while I'm willing to bet FanDuel or DraftKings has accounts where these guys either used their real name or were not very good at covering their tracks.
If players show up to games shitfaced, yes.I don’t disagree, but beer and sports and more recently all alcohol and sports have been intertwined for generations, is that also a problem?
Wade Boggs says “Hold My Beers”If players show up to games shitfaced, yes.
Yes. I believe so. Maybe I am a prude.I don’t disagree, but beer and sports and more recently all alcohol and sports have been intertwined for generations, is that also a problem?
Gambling, like drinking, is something that can lead to addiction. Which, in turn, can lead to compulsion and all sorts of self-destructive behavior. So, in that sense, they are very similar.I don’t disagree, but beer and sports and more recently all alcohol and sports have been intertwined for generations, is that also a problem?
Perhaps not this one but future ones.Is there any evidence that MLB refusing marketing dollars from sportsbooks would make stories like this one less likely to happen?
The dramatic expansion of legal, online/mobile sports betting is (imo) not great for society, but that’s beyond MLB’s ability to influence. Players just need to follow the rule that’s been in place for over 100 years, even though there are more temptations now than before.
True! The legality of sports gambling is on the state legislatures. Full stop. Everything else you say here is also true.Is there any evidence that MLB refusing marketing dollars from sportsbooks would make stories like this one less likely to happen?
The dramatic expansion of legal, online/mobile sports betting is (imo) not great for society, but that’s beyond MLB’s ability to influence. Players just need to follow the rule that’s been in place for over 100 years, even though there are more temptations now than before.
Does this mean we should get rid of fantasy sports too since the same thing has been happening for years?Players speak out about gambling-related threats received
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/06/09/mlb-players-starting-to-fear-for-their-safety-from-gamblers/74028741007/
You've been threatening to kill the children of players for years?Does this mean we should get rid of fantasy sports too since the same thing has been happening for years?
Yes that's definitely what I saidYou've been threatening to kill the children of players for years?
Shame on them for still believing him after all these years.You've been threatening to kill the children of players for years?
Not sure you're ever going to find a controlled experiment that would give you the answer to your question.Is there any evidence that MLB refusing marketing dollars from sportsbooks would make stories like this one less likely to happen?
The dramatic expansion of legal, online/mobile sports betting is (imo) not great for society, but that’s beyond MLB’s ability to influence. Players just need to follow the rule that’s been in place for over 100 years, even though there are more temptations now than before.
To be fair, who among us has not at one point speculated about driving a bus over Bo Bichette?You've been threatening to kill the children of players for years?
I'm more than half-convinced that the best ways to handle this are either a) a universal ban, or b) a regulated industry with rules and penalties for the participants. If you threaten players, you lose access to the gambling platform for some way/time. That can run parallel with stand-alone criminal deterrents.Prohibiting online gambling would be putting toothpaste back in its tube. It's too easy for dedicated gamblers to get around state restrictions, and that is not something that can just be "fixed" via legislation.
As a career marketing person, my answer is yes.Is there any evidence that MLB refusing marketing dollars from sportsbooks would make stories like this one less likely to happen?
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5565735/2024/06/14/mlb-umpire-pat-hoberg-disciplined-gambling/“During this year’s Spring Training, Major League Baseball commenced an investigation regarding a potential violation of MLB’s sports betting policies by Umpire Pat Hoberg,” MLB said in a statement. “Mr. Hoberg was removed from the field during the pendency of that investigation. While MLB’s investigation did not find any evidence that games worked by Mr. Hoberg were compromised or manipulated in any way, MLB determined that discipline was warranted. Mr. Hoberg has chosen to appeal that determination. Therefore, we cannot comment further until the appeal process is concluded.”