Arsenal 22-23: Time to Deliver the Goods

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Their depth does suddenly look a lot better. That they had key injuries at a bad time and played well and stayed on top of the league has got to be a big confidence boost. That sort of situation is how they dropped out of the champions league spots last year. This is a much deeper team than that one. Their next 5 league games have a trip to Anfield and then a bunch of bottom half teams. Liverpool is playing better and will be a challenge, but they should be able to rotate in the other games and work around the Europa league matches. Then comes a tough 4 game stretch against City, Chelsea, Newcastle, and Brighton. That is going to be the deciding section of the season. There are also only two games after that, so that's kind of obvious.
Looks like someone missed their game at Bournemouth on Saturday...

Liverpool will also be at the tail end of a tough stretch that features @City, @Chelsea and then vs. Arsenal all within 8 days that should hopefully be of benefit for Arsenal.

More seriously, echoing what MMS said that it was great to have this all locked up by halftime on Sunday due to the ability to bring in subs earlier and save both some legs as well as some wear and tear. Trossard has been such a fabulous addition for this team. It's not just his skill level, but his playing style seems to really work well with Arteta's system. I actually think that Nketiah's injury may have been a blessing in disguise for Arsenal as I have been a bit underwhelmed by Eddie. The number of opportunities he seems to have has been impressive, but seems like his conversion was too low and I had wanted to see Martinelli up top. I really like this look of Martinelli and Trossard switching back and forth between the striker and left wing spots during the run of play. I think that also has been a bit better for Martinelli's legs, as he had been looking a bit sluggish coming out of the World Cup(despite not getting a whole lot of run there).
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Nice win against Palace yesterday to make it six league wins on the bounce since losing to City. We're doing what we need to do in a soft part of the schedule.

I think to get over the line we need around 20-21 points from our last 10 matches. City will be playing at least 14 and up to 18 matches so its very hard to see them going on a perfect run the rest of the league season. I think they'll drop 5-7 points somewhere and end up in the 87-89 point range.

Given how difficult the schedule looks, we're going to need to be able to lean into our best 13-14 players during our remaining 10 matches to get to 89-90 points and so going out of the Europa League is likely a big benefit. In particular, with Tomiyasu seemingly done for the year, the right side of our defense is looking really thin. We need to get Saliba back and then keep him and Ben White healthy for ten games. Rob Holding was great against Palace but if our title charge depends on him starting a significant number of additional matches its likely to end badly.

Zinny is next level, especially at the end of this video.

View: https://twitter.com/karthikadhaigal/status/1637884993786761218
 

67YAZ

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Arsenal taking on the MLS all stars this summer. This season’s EPL race is just a warm up for the intercontinental challenge.
 

BostonJack42

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I don't know where others are landing on yesterday's game. If you had offered me 2-2 before the game I would have taken it. At 2-0, we should have killed it off and won. At 2-2 it seemed like we were more likely to lose than win but we had some chances too. I feel like Trossard could have come on earlier but he looked tired when he was introduced.

I know he provides value going forward in the current setup but Zinchenko's < Tierney for me. KT's a better defender and I think he would provide a better offensive partner to Martinelli.

Only 8 more domestic matches before that big game in July against the MLS.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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I don't know where others are landing on yesterday's game. If you had offered me 2-2 before the game I would have taken it. At 2-0, we should have killed it off and won. At 2-2 it seemed like we were more likely to lose than win but we had some chances too. I feel like Trossard could have come on earlier but he looked tired when he was introduced.

I know he provides value going forward in the current setup but Zinchenko's < Tierney for me. KT's a better defender and I think he would provide a better offensive partner to Martinelli.

Only 8 more domestic matches before that big game in July against the MLS.
Disappointing result from the 2-0 lead perspective, but as you noted they also felt like to come away with a point compared to some of the chances (not to mention the PK) that Liverpool had in the second half. This team is absolutely missing Saliba in the worst way, and I have no doubt that they would have looked a lot better with him rather than holding. I believe he's close to returning to training, but they desperately need him over the final games.

I fully agree that it felt like they need a substitution or two sooner. I think in addition to Saliba being out, I think Tomiyasu would have been put in for Zinchenko earlier had he been available. I'm not quite sure I rate Tierney above Zinchenko, but that's probably a factor of how I currently rate Tierney right now. I think he's got a bright future, but I was definitely biting my nails with Kiwior coming on as the extra defender for Arsenal. I realize that if Saliba is healthy, it's probably Holding that we're talking about in that situation, but I Kiwior also made a mistake right after coming on as well.

I still think Arsenal shakes this off and takes the PL, but man Saliba coming back would be a huge lift right now. The back line is what has me the most nervous at the moment.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Massive match this afternoon and not feeling very good about it to be honest.

Saliba and Tomiyasu both getting big injuries at the same time has just been a massive blow to this team. Saliba most important obviously but Tomiyasu getting hurt took away the team's best Plan B, which would have been to move Ben White to CB and play Tomi at RB like last year. We can all congratulate Rob Holding on having a nice head of hair and apparently being a great locker room guy, but he is miles from the quality you need over a significant stretch of matches to compete with a machine like City. We have to play a deeper line, he doesn't progress the ball nearly as quickly and crisply, other guys are doing different stuff to compensate, etc. The Liverpool result didn't bother me much given that we were playing at Anfield. But you're not going to win a title conceding five against West Ham and Southampton in must win matches.

I think Arteta needs to roll the dice on a significant change, both for this match and going forward. The XI he has been playing simply isn't going to get it done so change things up and see if you can lightning in a bottle. I'd go with Partey at RB (he played there some with Atletico and certainly has the overall profile for it), White at CB, and Jorginho starting at DM.
 

blueline

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Saliba and Tomiyasu both getting big injuries at the same time has just been a massive blow to this team. Saliba most important obviously but Tomiyasu getting hurt took away the team's best Plan B, which would have been to move Ben White to CB and play Tomi at RB like last year. We can all congratulate Rob Holding on having a nice head of hair and apparently being a great locker room guy, but he is miles from the quality you need over a significant stretch of matches to compete with a machine like City. We have to play a deeper line, he doesn't progress the ball nearly as quickly and crisply, other guys are doing different stuff to compensate, etc.
That's been key. Holding has been fine defensively and hasn't made any major mistakes like at the end of last season, but they play as a different team without Saliba. I feel like the title race is pretty much over, but maybe Arteta shakes things up and we get a surprise today.
 

BostonJack42

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I think Arteta needs to roll the dice on a significant change, both for this match and going forward.
It would have been nice if he followed your advice. That was massive kick in the nuts. We could still very well go on to win the title - but they are a much better team than us.

Changes I would like to see:
  • White at CB - Holding isn't terrible terrible but White looks leggy at RB all of a sudden
  • Zinchenko to the bench - plays no defense and makes excellent passes to the other team. Bring back KT.
  • Xhaka and Partey were totally absent yesterday - I don't know if it's class or legs but gotta try switching that up a little.
  • Maybe White to CB, Partey to RB and he plays more of the "float into midfield" role and KT to LB?
Beating City was always going to be a big ask but we're DDDL right now. Time to change it up.
 

lars10

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That's been key. Holding has been fine defensively and hasn't made any major mistakes like at the end of last season, but they play as a different team without Saliba. I feel like the title race is pretty much over, but maybe Arteta shakes things up and we get a surprise today.
Feel like a number of the goals in the past three games can be directly attributed to him. I know you posted before the City game.. but I think you could argue he was more or less responsible for at least three of the goals City got. The entire defense has changed with him instead of Saliba.
 

shaggydog2000

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Feel like a number of the goals in the past three games can be directly attributed to him. I know you posted before the City game.. but I think you could argue he was more or less responsible for at least three of the goals City got. The entire defense has changed with him instead of Saliba.
The offense and the high press are both built around what Saliba can do in terms of advancing the ball and recovering. Holding just can't do those things and it really hurts the scheme. It's too bad that a St. Totteringham's day and clinching a Champions League spot both happened, and we couldn't really enjoy either of them. I guess you can take pride in the targets having shifted so far that those don't matter as much.
 

litigator02

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Kiwior looked good, I thought — definitely more comfortable upfield and moving the ball around than Holding. Which means that whatever was bothering Gabriel through the second half will keep him out of Newcastle and it will be Kiwior and Holding in the middle.
 

Zomp

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Any of you have the presale code to the United Arsenal friendly at MetLife in July?
There is a presale for Giants/jets season ticket holders today but I haven’t had any luck with a presale code.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Any of you have the presale code to the United Arsenal friendly at MetLife in July?
There is a presale for Giants/jets season ticket holders today but I haven’t had any luck with a presale code.
I can't find any info about a pre-sale code on Arsenal.com. All ticketing runs through membership with Arsenal, though, and I'm not a member.
 

SocrManiac

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Nevermind. I got the code. Prices are absolutely insane.

cheapest seat in the place after fees is $220. For a friendly.
10 years ago I was in Munich with nothing to do. Bayern were going to play Shalke in 30 minutes, so we looked into tickets. 300 Euros for seats that I'm not sure qualified as "in" the stadium, half an hour before the match. We watched from a nearby bar and had a blast.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Nevermind. I got the code. Prices are absolutely insane.

cheapest seat in the place after fees is $220. For a friendly.
Yikes.

I think that's likely to be kind of a shit friendly too. The first PL matchday isn't until 8/12 so a 7/22 match is likely to have a lot of fringe players and academy players involved and the first team players still gearing back up and jogging around at half-pace.
 

Zomp

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Yeah it was more about the experience for the kids. I have a hotel that I can cancel so I’ll keep an eye out as we get closer
 

OCST

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The Everton Arsenal game at M&T in Baltimore last summer was ~ $90/seat, all in after fees, for about 12th row in the end zone. I watched the game through the mesh of the net.

It was a great time but a little spendy.. $200 is crazy.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Saliba and Zinny out for the season but neither will need surgery, per Ornstein.

More broadly, some thoughts on Arsenal and the season...

It’ll sting if we don’t win the title (which is looking highly highly likely) but this was such a fantastic season no matter what happens. We’ve done something that only Liverpool has been able to accomplish since Pep came into the league and really got going, which is give City a serious run. And the players and everybody else in the club now understand the level we need to achieve and the standard we need to maintain in order to do that.

I do think Arsenal supporters should acknowledge that we had some good fortune this year and factor that into expectations going forward. We outperformed our xG by quite a lot. I don’t think we had great injury luck, but we didn’t have shit injury luck either. Bukayo Saka didn’t blow out his ACL in October, we never had four midfielders hurt at the exact same time, etc.

The good thing is that the club seems to understand that we still need to keep getting better and can't solely rely on organic improvement from a young team (although that should happen to some degree). Everything points to us being aggressive in the market this summer, trying to add quality in multiple spots. Running this close to City has hopefully been instructive in this regard. You need to be able to rotate throughout the entire first XI to keep everybody fresh over a long season and you can’t find yourself relying on the likes of Holding, Nelson, Vieira, in important matches etc even if they’re the 20-25th spots on the roster.

Especially if we have a good summer with signings and we successfully extend Saliba, I think we’re set up for a 4-5 year run where we could plausibly compete for the PL and maybe the CL too assuming Arteta ever figures out European play. Who knows whether we actually win these trophies but I think we’ll be in with a chance, probably needing a good amount of luck in any given year as most clubs do. I also think that sometime in the next 2-3 years City is going to fall back due to players aging out and Pep eventually fucking off and we’re currently better positioned than any other club to take advantage when that day comes.

Basically, don't fuck it up and it should be an exciting ride for a number of years.
 
Last edited:

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Saliba and Zinny out for the season but neither will need surgery, per Ornstein.

More broadly, some thoughts on Arsenal and the season...

It’ll sting if we don’t win the title (which is looking highly highly likely) but this was such a fantastic season no matter what happens. We’ve done something that only Liverpool has been able to accomplish since Pep came into the league and really got going, which is give City a serious run. And the players and everybody else in the club now understand the level we need to achieve and the standard we need to maintain in order to do that.

I do think Arsenal supporters should acknowledge that we had some good fortune this year and factor that into expectations going forward. We outperformed our xG by quite a lot. I don’t think we had great injury luck, but we didn’t have shit injury luck either. Bukayo Saka didn’t blow out his ACL in October, we never had four midfielders hurt at the exact same time, etc.

The good thing is that the club seems to understand that we still need to keep getting better and can't solely rely on organic improvement from a young team (although that should happen to some degree). Everything points to us being aggressive in the market this summer, trying to add quality in multiple spots. Running this close to City has hopefully been instructive in this regard. You need to be able to rotate throughout the entire first XI to keep everybody fresh over a long season and you can’t find yourself relying on the likes of Holding, Nelson, Vieira, in important matches etc even if they’re the 20-25th spots on the roster.

Especially if we have a good summer with signings and we successfully extend Saliba, I think we’re set up for a 4-5 year run where we could plausibly compete for the PL and maybe the CL too assuming Arteta ever figures out European play. Who knows whether we actually win these trophies but I think we’ll be in with a chance, probably needing a good amount of luck in any given year as most clubs do. I also think that sometime in the next 2-3 years City is going to fall back due to players aging out and Pep eventually fucking off and we’re currently better positioned than any other club to take advantage when that day comes.

Basically, don't fuck it up and it should be an exciting ride for a number of years.
Right around the World Cup (and thus transfer window as well for this year) there were a ton of conversations around best/most valuable young players in the game and I kept feeling like Saliba was being critically underrated and underrepresented. You have (at the time) a 21 year old CB who's the lynchpin of the defense of the top team in the Premier League and he was barely making anybody's lists. I know everything tends to overrate offensive players, but Van Dijk was sold for 75M pounds to Liverpool 5 years ago. Prices have exploded since then and he's seemingly rated as a 50M player. When he missed his first few games, I was making comments over and over in the game threads of how badly he was missed and if he's out for an extended period that'll be why Arsenal loses the premier league to City.

It really didn't help that Tomiyasu went out at the same time given that instead of Holding they could have moved White back to CB and been starting Tomiyasu. I think those injuries are the difference in the Premier League right now, and although there's some bad luck there, I would say that Arsenal did have mostly really good injury luck for the season with nothing major to Xhaka or Partey (despite their ages making them the more likely candidates) and Jesus as the major one.

Overall, it's had to take anything but massive positives out of this game both for Arteta, the young players on the roster and even ownership showing that they're willing to put in the money to extend the young core and seemingly bring in major reinforcements this summer. Clearly the price that Chelsea paid for Murdyk was a disaster, but it seems like Arsenal was willing to go to the 70-80M range.

City won the PL the last two years in a row and then added Haaland to that squad. Fuck!
 

lars10

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Saliba and Zinny out for the season but neither will need surgery, per Ornstein.

More broadly, some thoughts on Arsenal and the season...

It’ll sting if we don’t win the title (which is looking highly highly likely) but this was such a fantastic season no matter what happens. We’ve done something that only Liverpool has been able to accomplish since Pep came into the league and really got going, which is give City a serious run. And the players and everybody else in the club now understand the level we need to achieve and the standard we need to maintain in order to do that.

I do think Arsenal supporters should acknowledge that we had some good fortune this year and factor that into expectations going forward. We outperformed our xG by quite a lot. I don’t think we had great injury luck, but we didn’t have shit injury luck either. Bukayo Saka didn’t blow out his ACL in October, we never had four midfielders hurt at the exact same time, etc.

The good thing is that the club seems to understand that we still need to keep getting better and can't solely rely on organic improvement from a young team (although that should happen to some degree). Everything points to us being aggressive in the market this summer, trying to add quality in multiple spots. Running this close to City has hopefully been instructive in this regard. You need to be able to rotate throughout the entire first XI to keep everybody fresh over a long season and you can’t find yourself relying on the likes of Holding, Nelson, Vieira, in important matches etc even if they’re the 20-25th spots on the roster.

Especially if we have a good summer with signings and we successfully extend Saliba, I think we’re set up for a 4-5 year run where we could plausibly compete for the PL and maybe the CL too assuming Arteta ever figures out European play. Who knows whether we actually win these trophies but I think we’ll be in with a chance, probably needing a good amount of luck in any given year as most clubs do. I also think that sometime in the next 2-3 years City is going to fall back due to players aging out and Pep eventually fucking off and we’re currently better positioned than any other club to take advantage when that day comes.

Basically, don't fuck it up and it should be an exciting ride for a number of years.
It’s two years in a row where their lack of depth and a key injury killed the team’s momentum.

Last year Partey this year Saliba. And Gabriel Jesus getting hurt wasn’t exactly nothing..
Saliba is obviously the lynchpin of the defense.. he makes up for a ton of mistakes.

Arteta has improved the overall quality of the squad pretty immensely.. and I think they’re about a year ahead of where they should be.
The future is pretty bright.. add two or three players and run it back. Not even sure where they should add.. probably another center d and mid? With champions league games next year they’re going to need to figure out how to rotate players.. Saka, Ødegaard, Martinelli can’t play every game.. same with Xhaka and Partey.

Should be fun to see what happens though
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Right around the World Cup (and thus transfer window as well for this year) there were a ton of conversations around best/most valuable young players in the game and I kept feeling like Saliba was being critically underrated and underrepresented. You have (at the time) a 21 year old CB who's the lynchpin of the defense of the top team in the Premier League and he was barely making anybody's lists. I know everything tends to overrate offensive players, but Van Dijk was sold for 75M pounds to Liverpool 5 years ago. Prices have exploded since then and he's seemingly rated as a 50M player. When he missed his first few games, I was making comments over and over in the game threads of how badly he was missed and if he's out for an extended period that'll be why Arsenal loses the premier league to City.
It’s two years in a row where their lack of depth and a key injury killed the team’s momentum.

Last year Partey this year Saliba. And Gabriel Jesus getting hurt wasn’t exactly nothing..
Saliba is obviously the lynchpin of the defense.. he makes up for a ton of mistakes.

Arteta has improved the overall quality of the squad pretty immensely.. and I think they’re about a year ahead of where they should be.
The future is pretty bright.. add two or three players and run it back. Not even sure where they should add.. probably another center d and mid? With champions league games next year they’re going to need to figure out how to rotate players.. Saka, Ødegaard, Martinelli can’t play every game.. same with Xhaka and Partey.

Should be fun to see what happens though
The Saliba injury was definitely a huge blow. If I'm being honest, I think we're still underdogs to win the title even if he stays healthy as we probably still lose at the Etihad and drop points at Anfield. But we'd certainly be in much better shape than we are now.

Back injuries are pretty scary, you really don't know how Saliba is going to recover, whether he is going to be a player that whose playing time needs to be managed for a couple years, etc. The whole situation has definitely elevated RCB for me as an off-season priority

This is how I would approach the offseason:

Buy

-CM who can take Xhaka's role but also cover the 6. The big target here appears to be Declan Rice.
-RCB who can play a high line and is good in possession. Ideally someone who in a pinch could also play RB in a Ben White mold. We've been linked with Marc Guehi recently.
-Left footed winger who can cover Saka and do a passing impression of his playing style, so our movements can stay similar as a team. Ideally someone that can play across the front line so they're not just a Saka backup. Moussa Diaby is often mentioned as a target but he seems kind of expensive for what we need out of this player.

Sell

Balogun. I just don't see where he fits, a loan might also work but his contract runs out in 2025 so we'd be setting ourselves up for a tough situation.
Holding. Great guy, great teammate, great head of hair, can't play our football. But he's a legit PL CB who would do fine at any mid-to-lower table side that sits deep and plays without the ball a lot.
Tavares. If Marseille or any other team offers 10m, take the money and run.
Sambi. Best for all parties to just move on. Maybe Kompany will want to reunite with him at Burnley.
Mari. I think this is already done, with the obligation to buy him kicking in with Monza staying up in Serie A.
Pepe. Loan him again for his last year or some kind of contract termination, just don't bring him back.
Cedric, Runarrson, Maitland Niles. See above.

I feel like if we can pull something like this off we'll essentially have the team Arteta wants.
 

The Gray Eagle

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If you're talking about injuries, then Emile Smith Rowe needs to be mentioned. He missed months and never was able to get going since his surgery. He scored 10 goals in the Premier League last year as a 21-year-old and was on a real upward trajectory coming into this season. That's a significant loss, as was Tomiyasu going down at the same exact time as Saliba.
 

shaggydog2000

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The Saliba injury was definitely a huge blow. If I'm being honest, I think we're still underdogs to win the title even if he stays healthy as we probably still lose at the Etihad and drop points at Anfield. But we'd certainly be in much better shape than we are now.

Back injuries are pretty scary, you really don't know how Saliba is going to recover, whether he is going to be a player that whose playing time needs to be managed for a couple years, etc. The whole situation has definitely elevated RCB for me as an off-season priority

This is how I would approach the offseason:

Buy

-CM who can take Xhaka's role but also cover the 6. The big target here appears to be Declan Rice.
-RCB who can play a high line and is good in possession. Ideally someone who in a pinch could also play RB in a Ben White mold. We've been linked with Marc Guehi recently.
-Left footed winger who can cover Saka and do a passing impression of his playing style, so our movements can stay similar as a team. Ideally someone that can play across the front line so they're not just a Saka backup. Moussa Diaby is often mentioned as a target but he seems kind of expensive for what we need out of this player.

Sell

Balogun. I just don't see where he fits, a loan might also work but his contract runs out in 2025 so we'd be setting ourselves up for a tough situation.
Holding. Great guy, great teammate, great head of hair, can't play our football. But he's a legit PL CB who would do fine at any mid-to-lower table side that sits deep and plays without the ball a lot.
Tavares. If Marseille or any other team offers 10m, take the money and run.
Sambi. Best for all parties to just move on. Maybe Kompany will want to reunite with him at Burnley.
Mari. I think this is already done, with the obligation to buy him kicking in with Monza staying up in Serie A.
Pepe. Loan him again for his last year or some kind of contract termination, just don't bring him back.
Cedric, Runarrson, Maitland Niles. See above.

I feel like if we can pull something like this off we'll essentially have the team Arteta wants.
I agree with pretty much all of this. But I think they might buy 2 center mids, and as much as I loved Tierney, he's probably going to move on and they will bring in a more Zinchenko like LB.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I agree with pretty much all of this. But I think they might buy 2 center mids, and as much as I loved Tierney, he's probably going to move on and they will bring in a more Zinchenko like LB.
I can definitely see Tierney moving on. If that happens, fine. We'll get a very good fee and it will be more than enough to buy another fullback.

Two center mids seems more dicey to me, unless Arteta is quietly determined to get rid of Partey or Smith-Rowe or give up quickly on Vieira. I wouldn't bet on that but don't think its off the table.

If we sign a player like Rice, the CM room looks like: Odegaard, Rice, Partey as starters. Xhaka, Jorginho, Smith-Rowe, Vieira, Elneny as backups. That's a very full group, even understanding that Elneny will mainly be putting out cones and slapping backs. I don't see somebody else coming in unless one goes.
 

shaggydog2000

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I can definitely see Tierney moving on. If that happens, fine. We'll get a very good fee and it will be more than enough to buy another fullback.

Two center mids seems more dicey to me, unless Arteta is quietly determined to get rid of Partey or Smith-Rowe or give up quickly on Vieira. I wouldn't bet on that but don't think its off the table.

If we sign a player like Rice, the CM room looks like: Odegaard, Rice, Partey as starters. Xhaka, Jorginho, Smith-Rowe, Vieira, Elneny as backups. That's a very full group, even understanding that Elneny will mainly be putting out cones and slapping backs. I don't see somebody else coming in unless one goes.
I remembered the talk over the January window being that they wanted to bring in two midfielders. I blanked on them getting Jorginho for a minute there, probably because he's not a young part of the future type guy like the others they were talking about. He complicates things. Xhaka I could see being moved if the right player was bought, but he has been great this season. I think they're most likely to bring in 1 CM, 1 RCB, a LB, and a Saka backup. A second CM would be a lot for one window. They did a lot of work to change this team from a borderline Europa league squad to one that can compete for a title. But there is still going to be a lot of turnover to play in the Champions league and put on another title challenge. At least this time around the players they are looking to sell will have some value, that should make planning a bit easier.
 

Jake Peavy's Demons

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Hope it's not too late to share my thoughts here. As a superstitious fellow, I was weary of posting in this year's thread when it looked like we had a chance at the title. I don't post much anyway, but here goes...:

Boy, do both Caicedo and Mitoma look class. Before going into this match I was hoping that next year Rice could be our potential #6 to replace Partey, & keep Xhaka in a secondary role for his current role, & get someone with more offensive firepower. I'm keen to see what ESR could do in that spot, though.

Now, I'm all in on Caicedo at #6 & Rice occupying Xhaka's role, as I'm hearing he's very good at the #8 role too.

Wish there was a way to make a double-swoop at BHA for Mitoma too, for rotation/competitiveness at LW, especially as Martinelli can play the RW to spell Saka.

Unfortunately, I only see 1 of Rice/Caicedo happening, & I've seen no links for us for Mitoma.

I'd love Marc Guéhi for rotation at RCB, & I do like what I've seen so far with Kiwior, albeit SSS, & today's game non-with-standing (although he was fouled on BHA's 1st goal?).

Ø, Saka, Martinelli, Saliba, Gabriel Magalhães have all been stellar this season, & Partey had a great 1st half.

My modest hope this upcoming transfer season would be:

- 1 of Rice/Caicedo

- Guéhi

- Mason Mount? (If Xhaka links to Bayer Leverkusen are true; also I'm a believer in Arteta's vision for midfielders.)

- Fresnada (Love Tomi, but he can't stay healthy; Fresnada helps provide rotation between White & Tomiyasu...they both can also play CB.)

Still would need some reinforcement at winger, especially if Reiss Nelson leaves. At 1st, I was very keen for Moussa Diaby, now, I'm skeptical.

Really hope to see some improvement from Vieira next season, if Ø ever goes down, we'd be in big trouble.

I still don't think the above is enough to keep us competing seriously for both UCL & the PL, but I just don't see Rice AND Caicedo happening. Those 2 would kick off a cracking summer, though.
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
8,711
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
Hope it's not too late to share my thoughts here. As a superstitious fellow, I was weary of posting in this year's thread when it looked like we had a chance at the title. I don't post much anyway, but here goes...:

Boy, do both Caicedo and Mitoma look class. Before going into this match I was hoping that next year Rice could be our potential #6 to replace Partey, & keep Xhaka in a secondary role for his current role, & get someone with more offensive firepower. I'm keen to see what ESR could do in that spot, though.

Now, I'm all in on Caicedo at #6 & Rice occupying Xhaka's role, as I'm hearing he's very good at the #8 role too.

Wish there was a way to make a double-swoop at BHA for Mitoma too, for rotation/competitiveness at LW, especially as Martinelli can play the RW to spell Saka.

Unfortunately, I only see 1 of Rice/Caicedo happening, & I've seen no links for us for Mitoma.

I'd love Marc Guéhi for rotation at RCB, & I do like what I've seen so far with Kiwior, albeit SSS, & today's game non-with-standing (although he was fouled on BHA's 1st goal?).

Ø, Saka, Martinelli, Saliba, Gabriel Magalhães have all been stellar this season, & Partey had a great 1st half.

My modest hope this upcoming transfer season would be:

- 1 of Rice/Caicedo

- Guéhi

- Mason Mount? (If Xhaka links to Bayer Leverkusen are true; also I'm a believer in Arteta's vision for midfielders.)

- Fresnada (Love Tomi, but he can't stay healthy; Fresnada helps provide rotation between White & Tomiyasu...they both can also play CB.)

Still would need some reinforcement at winger, especially if Reiss Nelson leaves. At 1st, I was very keen for Moussa Diaby, now, I'm skeptical.

Really hope to see some improvement from Vieira next season, if Ø ever goes down, we'd be in big trouble.

I still don't think the above is enough to keep us competing seriously for both UCL & the PL, but I just don't see Rice AND Caicedo happening. Those 2 would kick off a cracking summer, though.
The problem with Caicedo is two fold … first everyone wants him , and secondly it’s looking very likely that McCallister is going to Liverpool, and Brighton won’t be willing to lose both in the same window, , likewise with Mitano who’s going to make Brighton a fortune in a year or two. Also, West Ham reportedly want £100m for Rice - who’s also wanted by everybody. Does Arsenal have £200m to spend this summer?
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,623
Kind of a tossup who are more pathetic/ pitiable at this point.. Tottenham or their supporters.

Hope it's not too late to share my thoughts here. As a superstitious fellow, I was weary of posting in this year's thread when it looked like we had a chance at the title. I don't post much anyway, but here goes...:

Boy, do both Caicedo and Mitoma look class. Before going into this match I was hoping that next year Rice could be our potential #6 to replace Partey, & keep Xhaka in a secondary role for his current role, & get someone with more offensive firepower. I'm keen to see what ESR could do in that spot, though.

Now, I'm all in on Caicedo at #6 & Rice occupying Xhaka's role, as I'm hearing he's very good at the #8 role too.

Wish there was a way to make a double-swoop at BHA for Mitoma too, for rotation/competitiveness at LW, especially as Martinelli can play the RW to spell Saka.

Unfortunately, I only see 1 of Rice/Caicedo happening, & I've seen no links for us for Mitoma.

I'd love Marc Guéhi for rotation at RCB, & I do like what I've seen so far with Kiwior, albeit SSS, & today's game non-with-standing (although he was fouled on BHA's 1st goal?).

Ø, Saka, Martinelli, Saliba, Gabriel Magalhães have all been stellar this season, & Partey had a great 1st half.

My modest hope this upcoming transfer season would be:

- 1 of Rice/Caicedo

- Guéhi

- Mason Mount? (If Xhaka links to Bayer Leverkusen are true; also I'm a believer in Arteta's vision for midfielders.)

- Fresnada (Love Tomi, but he can't stay healthy; Fresnada helps provide rotation between White & Tomiyasu...they both can also play CB.)

Still would need some reinforcement at winger, especially if Reiss Nelson leaves. At 1st, I was very keen for Moussa Diaby, now, I'm skeptical.

Really hope to see some improvement from Vieira next season, if Ø ever goes down, we'd be in big trouble.

I still don't think the above is enough to keep us competing seriously for both UCL & the PL, but I just don't see Rice AND Caicedo happening. Those 2 would kick off a cracking summer, though.
Kiwor was definitely cleated which is why he went down and wasn’t there for the header. Feel like Arsenal got zero benefit from the ref the entire game including that bit of play.. It was clear he got cleated and it looked like it was an offensive player.. and it led directly to the goal.. not sure if it being inadvertent is enough for it not to be a foul? The announcers kept saying he twisted it as they kept showing a replay of his ankle getting clipped.
 

shaggydog2000

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2007
11,948
The problem with Caicedo is two fold … first everyone wants him , and secondly it’s looking very likely that McCallister is going to Liverpool, and Brighton won’t be willing to lose both in the same window, , likewise with Mitano who’s going to make Brighton a fortune in a year or two. Also, West Ham reportedly want £100m for Rice - who’s also wanted by everybody. Does Arsenal have £200m to spend this summer?
The Times is claiming they will try to get both and that the Kroenkes have approved the budget for it, but this is all silly season and we know there are more rumors about huge moves like that than there are actual signings.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mikel-arteta-arsenal-declan-rice-moses-caicedo-gj2pft29n
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,684
Philadelphia
The Times is claiming they will try to get both and that the Kroenkes have approved the budget for it, but this is all silly season and we know there are more rumors about huge moves like that than there are actual signings.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mikel-arteta-arsenal-declan-rice-moses-caicedo-gj2pft29n
Lots of stories in the last 24 hours about Xhaka going to Leverkusen and talks being very advanced. We've also heard from reliable journalists that Charlie Patino has made a clear decision to leave the club and some crumbs out there suggesting Smith-Rowe could be sold this summer in the right deal.

We'll see what happens but those signs give greater weight to the possibility of two midfielders coming in.
 

shaggydog2000

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2007
11,948
Lots of stories in the last 24 hours about Xhaka going to Leverkusen and talks being very advanced. We've also heard from reliable journalists that Charlie Patino has made a clear decision to leave the club and some crumbs out there suggesting Smith-Rowe could be sold this summer in the right deal.

We'll see what happens but those signs give greater weight to the possibility of two midfielders coming in.
Agreed.
 

litigator02

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
618
nowhere, really
Any DC area Gooners interested in going to the Arsenal/MLS all stars game on July 19? My wife and daughter have both bailed, leaving me with 4 tickets and only able to use 2. The seats are in the Arsenal fan section (113, row 23) at Audi field, so you’ll be surrounded by like-minded individuals.

If you’re interested in the spare pair, shoot me a DM!
 

Jake Peavy's Demons

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 13, 2013
551
With just 2 matches left, being essentially locked into #2 at the table unless hell freezes over, & the Xhaka news, I really hope ESR gets a shout to start in the #8 role Saturday against Nottingham Forest.

He is just a season away from 10 league goals & we could get a chance to see how he could fare playing >15 minutes / match in that role. Add in the fact it would behoove us to ensure Xhaka stays healthy by playing him less for Bayer Leverkusen & it seems like a slam dunk.

Against Wolves at home to finish the season, however, I'd like Xhaka to start his last game.

I'd even be aggressive and get more playing time for Reuell Walters & call up BNC to the squad for a few minutes these last 2 games.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,684
Philadelphia
With just 2 matches left, being essentially locked into #2 at the table unless hell freezes over, & the Xhaka news, I really hope ESR gets a shout to start in the #8 role Saturday against Nottingham Forest.

He is just a season away from 10 league goals & we could get a chance to see how he could fare playing >15 minutes / match in that role. Add in the fact it would behoove us to ensure Xhaka stays healthy by playing him less for Bayer Leverkusen & it seems like a slam dunk.

Against Wolves at home to finish the season, however, I'd like Xhaka to start his last game.

I'd even be aggressive and get more playing time for Reuell Walters & call up BNC to the squad for a few minutes these last 2 games.
My guess is that ESR's days at the club are numbered and he gets sold this summer if a suitable offer arrives. He's clearly still behind Vieira in the midfield pecking order despite the latter's weak performances, we're trying to buy Rice or Caicedo if not both, and we're also linked to Mount.

IMO, Arteta has never been sold on ESR in the way he has been sold on Saka, Martinelli, and Odegaard. I have never heard Arteta make any kind of borderline negative comment about the mentality of any of those three players or really cast any doubts on their ability to reach the top. Even when Martinelli was hardly playing at all after he returned from his knee injury, Arteta went out of his way to praise him as one of the best players in training and saying his lack of playing time was unfair on the player. Smith-Rowe from the beginning Arteta has openly challenged to be a better professional and prove that he could be a player likely to reach the top, from telling him that he needed to show he could be a professional at Huddersfield to talking about how he needed more end product if he wanted to be an attacking midfielder, to getting him the private chef, to casting doubt on whether he was worthy of the 10 shirt, to all the times this year when he has basically said some version of “We need him, he needs to prove that he can deliver the right performance level.” Three years into their time together, ESR is playing less than he ever has before and looks like a pub league player when he does get on the pitch. The writing is on the wall.

If Wenger were still manager, he would absolutely persist with ESR and give him another 3-4 seasons to come good. But I think Arteta is a lot more ruthless. You hit the expected levels in terms of performance and physical availability or you go.
 
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Jake Peavy's Demons

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 13, 2013
551
Yikes. That...was not a good performance. When Partey is out of form, he is really out of form. I credit Mikel for doing something a bit different at the start, but this was not working. I know Partey didn't start at RB yesterday, but filled in that channel at times. He used to do RB in spots with Atleti, but this was not good.

Transfer season is coming up soon, & is always entertaining (& frustrating). Some speculation I've seen is João Cancelo. I personally would not been too keen on that. Reports of him clashing in the dressing rooms, high wages, &...is it a coincidence that MC rocketed up when he left on a rest-of-the-season loan to Bayern München in the winter?

Plus, I worry if he's sold to us, Pep is giving us players of 'outdated tactics' so he can always be one step ahead of Mikel, and of course, the rest of the league. I was happy when we got Gabriel Jesus, but he really is a maddening player. MC essentially replaced him and Raheem Sterling for Erling Håland, didn't miss a beat, & got better.

Which leads me to wonder if G. Jesus could be the RW cover for Saka that we desperately need & we go for someone more clinical up top...the guys who always overperform their xG. Jesus' ego is likely too much for that, though.

No doubt we need to overhaul our midfield for younger, better players. As rotation/competition, if Rice and/or Caicedo come along, do we need both Partey & Jorginho? Ideally TP5 gets sold, I guess, but there's that elephant in the room...

We've got UCL again & the other domestic 3 competitions, so lots of matches for players to go around.

We'll see what happens in the summer, but for now, let's hope for a strong performance in the final match against Wolves in front of our supporters.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,684
Philadelphia
Arsenal's odds of making it into Pot 2 in the Champions League got a huge boost today as Juventus was hit with a new 10 point penalty and also lost 4-1 to Empoli. Those two things combined put Milan firmly in the driver's seat for the last CL spot in Serie A, which would mean Arsenal goes into Pot 2 and Milan Pot 3.

We need Juventus to say out of the CL (ie, not successfully appeal the penalty or turn around a 5 point deficit to Milan with two games to spare) and Real Sociedad to hold off Villarreal for the final CL spot in La Liga. Both of those happen and we are in Pot 2. This actually makes a pretty big difference to the odds of getting a tough group.

View: https://twitter.com/UefaRankings/status/1660712388348223501
 

67YAZ

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2000
9,256
Arsenal got started with data analytics by buying a Chicago-based company called StatDNA and I think they never relocated the operation to London.
They certainly haven’t invested in the website development in a while.

If you think of it as a Kroenke acquisition and not just Arsenal, makes sense that it stayed in the States. Looks like it has offices in Chicago & Seattle and also has a version of the website in Brazilian Portuguese. They list Botafogo & UNC as clients.

It’s also in a funny part of town for a tech business. I know that building because it’s right off the tail end of Humboldt Park, on a bike ride circuit I do with my kids. Would have expected it closer to the West Loop/Fulton Market area near Google or even downtown. Wouldn’t have guessed a mega-club had an outpost way over there.
 

candylandriots

unkempt
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 30, 2004
12,656
Berlin
Can someone explain to me how Newcastle’s coefficient is higher than Union Berlin’s? Not rhetorical…I really don’t understand.
 

McSweeny

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
141
Can someone explain to me how Newcastle’s coefficient is higher than Union Berlin’s? Not rhetorical…I really don’t understand.
I was curious too so I did some googling and discovered that "Newcastle have no club coefficient, but they do have one via their national association. This basically calculates the average success of clubs from a particular country in European competition."

https://theathletic.com/4528840/2023/05/18/newcastle-europe-coefficient-explained/
 

candylandriots

unkempt
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 30, 2004
12,656
Berlin