Arrests in Major NCAA College Basketball Probe

DrewDawg

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Well, this is gonna get fun: https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-college-hoops-corruption-case-poised-take-hall-fame-coaches-top-programs-lottery-picks-224417174.html

“This goes a lot deeper in college basketball than four corrupt assistant coaches,” said a source who has been briefed on the details of the case. “When this all comes out, Hall of Fame coaches should be scared, lottery picks won’t be eligible to play and almost half of the 16 teams the NCAA showed on its initial NCAA tournament show this weekend should worry about their appearance being vacated.”
In terms of NCAA rules, multiple sources told Yahoo Sports that the material obtained threatens the fundamental structure and integrity of the sport, as there’s potentially as many 50 college basketball programs that could end up compromised in some way.
 

nattysez

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"Lottery picks won't be eligible to play" means "guys who are likely lottery picks in the NBA won't be able to play college ball," correct? Sloppy writing by Thamel. I don't see anything in the article that suggests that current NBA players could be in trouble for taking $ when they were collegians.

Man do I hope this entirely blows up college hoops and the NCAA. Anything that results in schools starting to pay players in the revenue-drawing sports is a good thing - enough is enough.
 

DrewDawg

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It’s a quote, not his writing, but I read it the same way, so perhaps it’s not confusing.
 

Kliq

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Everyone had to assume something major like this was coming, right? I just can't see a reality where these top recruits are not getting something extra under the table. Brian Bowen, who was the centerpiece of the Louisville scandal, was the 19th ranked player in his class; and he was getting $100,000 to go to Louisville. If he is getting $100k, how much is Bagley, or Ayton or Porter getting? I find it hard to believe Bowen was the only top recruit that was getting $100k from Adidas; especially when those guys are more likely to become superstar players that actually sell shoes.
 

Clears Cleaver

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So, if the article is correct and “nearly half” of the first top 16 teams will be mentioned, including “HoF coaches,” who are we talking about here?


HoF coaches: K, Self, Roy, Izzo...Wright? I think we can safely assume the first three all pay players as they all consistently get top kids. Self should be in jail. Roy’s program has been dirty for 20 years. And K is the biggest hypocrite alive. We now know Izzo is not a saint post Nassar. Wright? Has three top 50 recruits this year, must be paying kids.

Looking at the rest of the top 16. I think every SEC and B12 and ACC and pac12 team is suspicious. Arizona is already known. Tennessee cheats at everything. Oklahoma too. Auburn of course. Clemson and Ohio state? Cmon, of course. Look at their football programs. Texas Tech??? This is a ranked team? They must be cheating

Maybe not UVA, although what kid would actually want to play 42-38 games unless they were being paid?

So that leaves Purdue, Xavier, Cincinnati...

Please note sarcasm. But this investigation will probably lead to the P5 school’s creating their own business model away from NCAA.
 

Average Reds

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I would love to see the NCAA taken down over this, but I think it may be wishful thinking to expect more bombshells from this case. The key line is at the end of the first paragraph:

As the three ongoing criminal cases resulting from the investigation plod along, it’s increasingly unlikely there will be another wave of double-digit arrests.
If the Feds don't have enough evidence to announce any additional arrests, they're not going to release raw FBI files to the public. Or the NCAA. So color me skeptical.

As an aside, the entire Yahoo article read like a tabloid story, with splashy claims and bombshell proclamations but little-to-no substance.
 

JShams

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I for one can't wait to see what Roy offered this year's junior class.

"We have here that you offered Kenny Williams a 25% off coupon to Belk and Luke Maye 3 free pork chop biscuits at Biscuitville".
 

DukeSox

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So, if the article is correct and “nearly half” of the first top 16 teams will be mentioned, including “HoF coaches,” who are we talking about here?

HoF coaches: K, Self, Roy, Izzo...Wright? I think we can safely assume the first three all pay players as they all consistently get top kids. Self should be in jail. Roy’s program has been dirty for 20 years. And K is the biggest hypocrite alive. We now know Izzo is not a saint post Nassar. Wright? Has three top 50 recruits this year, must be paying kids.
Everyone had to assume something major like this was coming, right? I just can't see a reality where these top recruits are not getting something extra under the table. Brian Bowen, who was the centerpiece of the Louisville scandal, was the 19th ranked player in his class; and he was getting $100,000 to go to Louisville. If he is getting $100k, how much is Bagley, or Ayton or Porter getting? I find it hard to believe Bowen was the only top recruit that was getting $100k from Adidas; especially when those guys are more likely to become superstar players that actually sell shoes.
This shows a stunning lack of understanding of how it all works. The top guys that K gets are getting the shoe contract anyway because they are the #1/2/3 studs and because they are getting the national attention of playing 25 games a year on TV at Duke. They don't need to be paid to attend the best program (Duke). Being blessed by receiving an offer to Duke is the payment itself.

If this all goes down, the NCAA should rerun the brackets from the last 20 years, eliminating any teams that were cheating, and pass along any teams that were not cheating to the next round, and see who the resulting champion is (or assign co-champions if two teams make it to the Final Four that were not cheating).

It's only natural to presume this will result in Duke with about 12-15 national championships and K surpassing Wooden. Order is restored.
 

JShams

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It's only natural to presume this will result in Duke with about 12-15 national championships and K surpassing Wooden. Order is restored.
Yeah those cheating bastards from Lehigh and Mercer need to get punished.
 

Clears Cleaver

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This shows a stunning lack of understanding of how it all works. The top guys that K gets are getting the shoe contract anyway because they are the #1/2/3 studs and because they are getting the national attention of playing 25 games a year on TV at Duke. They don't need to be paid to attend the best program.
So Calipari and Kentucky are clean, too. Good to know...thanks

Its laughable to think any show buying kid cares about anyone on Duke besides Allen and Bagley. Or ayton at AZ. Or Trae Young. And every game is on TV, so the value-add of going to the big programs is hardly for exposure. And at Duke, it certainly isn't for the co-eds...
 

Greg29fan

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I for one can't wait to see what Roy offered this year's junior class.

"We have here that you offered Kenny Williams a 25% off coupon to Belk and Luke Maye 3 free pork chop biscuits at Biscuitville".
Platek, Manley, Huffman, and Brooks got coupons for Cookout but have to drive to a city with one first.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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If the NCAA really gets this information, they seriously won't know what to do with it.

The NCAA can't investigate its way out of a paper bag. They are pathetic. There are hundreds of people working in that building and I have no idea what they do. I have some experience with them on the defense side, of which I can't say more, but the most likely outcome here is that some moron in Indy with a highlighter will go through tens of thousands of pages of documents and find any names he recognizes, and then they'll over-react, unless the ACC heavyweights are implicated. In which case, they'll probably spend millions to hire someone with actual forensic chops to write a report that they then will not understand and will over-react to.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If the NCAA really gets this information, they seriously won't know what to do with it.

The NCAA can't investigate its way out of a paper bag. They are pathetic. There are hundreds of people working in that building and I have no idea what they do. I have some experience with them on the defense side, of which I can't say more, but the most likely outcome here is that some moron in Indy with a highlighter will go through tens of thousands of pages of documents and find any names he recognizes, and then they'll over-react, unless the ACC heavyweights are implicated. In which case, they'll probably spend millions to hire someone with actual forensic chops to write a report that they then will not understand and will over-react to.
Based on who gets sanctioned I'd guess half those people are looking for 'student athletes' who get paid to sign autographs or appear at shows for money. You know, the REALLY big stuff like that.

Roger Goodell is destined to run the NCAA someday and unify the corrupt titan hacks of wastitude into a single entity
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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This will eventually turn out like the Tour de France where they strip the winner and next 50 guys are also nailed for doping. So some program from East Whatever State will end up national champs for the past 2 decades.
 
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benhogan

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Yeah those cheating bastards from Lehigh and Mercer need to get punished.
+1
and if anyone thinks Duke is above getting caught isn't paying attention, its a crap shoot...Coach K may have no clue that some random booster has been buying players dinners and giving them a couple of bucks to go on dates.

The NCAA is a self-serving joke. UNC has a fake academic program for decades and nothing. Other programs do nickel/dime infractions and they lose scholarships (which hurts kids).
 

HomeRunBaker

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If the NCAA really gets this information, they seriously won't know what to do with it.

The NCAA can't investigate its way out of a paper bag. They are pathetic. There are hundreds of people working in that building and I have no idea what they do. I have some experience with them on the defense side, of which I can't say more, but the most likely outcome here is that some moron in Indy with a highlighter will go through tens of thousands of pages of documents and find any names he recognizes, and then they'll over-react, unless the ACC heavyweights are implicated. In which case, they'll probably spend millions to hire someone with actual forensic chops to write a report that they then will not understand and will over-react to.
This is an FBI investigation with federal indictments for bribery conspiracy, solicitation of bribes, honest services fraud conspiracy, honest service fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud and Travel Act conspiracy. The U.S. Department of Justice said each of the 4 coaches already faces a maximum sentence of 80 years in prison. There will be HOF coaches going to prison......the NCAA isn't going to have to do squat.

If I had to guess, of the top schools Bill Self is at the top of the list with his Adidas connections along with Larranaga in Miami and Gottfried at NC State. There obv are a ton more.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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This is an FBI investigation with federal indictments for bribery conspiracy, solicitation of bribes, honest services fraud conspiracy, honest service fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud and Travel Act conspiracy. The U.S. Department of Justice said each of the 4 coaches already faces a maximum sentence of 80 years in prison. There will be HOF coaches going to prison......the NCAA isn't going to have to do squat.

If I had to guess, of the top schools Bill Self is at the top of the list with his Adidas connections along with Larranaga in Miami and Gottfried at NC State. There obv are a ton more.
My guess is that in the volumes and volumes of information that the FBI has accumulated, there is plenty there that a competent investigator genuinely interested in determining whether amateurism rules have been violated could use and develop. The major crimes and big indictments will be easy, but there will be a ton of information about things that were not illegal, or perhaps illegal but not worthy of prosecution, that nevertheless could amount to significant NCAA rules violations. The NCAA will have no idea what to do with all that.
 

troparra

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+1
The NCAA is a self-serving joke. UNC has a fake academic program for decades and nothing. Other programs do nickel/dime infractions and they lose scholarships (which hurts kids).
That head-scratching NCAA decision was based on the fact that non-athletes could enroll in the fake classes. Would the same work with recruiting violations? If a Duke booster is paying players behind Coach K's back, would it not be an infraction if the booster is also handing out money to prospective physics and chemistry majors?
 

DukeSox

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That head-scratching NCAA decision was based on the fact that non-athletes could enroll in the fake classes. Would the same work with recruiting violations? If a Duke booster is paying players behind Coach K's back, would it not be an infraction if the booster is also handing out money to prospective physics and chemistry majors?
That was the takeaway from the UN-CH(eat) scam. If you make the scam even bigger, you can get away with it by claiming it "wasn't just athletics!"
 

PedroKsBambino

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My guess is that in the volumes and volumes of information that the FBI has accumulated, there is plenty there that a competent investigator genuinely interested in determining whether amateurism rules have been violated could use and develop. The major crimes and big indictments will be easy, but there will be a ton of information about things that were not illegal, or perhaps illegal but not worthy of prosecution, that nevertheless could amount to significant NCAA rules violations. The NCAA will have no idea what to do with all that.
Or else, the NCAA will know exactly what to do with it---shred their copy and deny the existence of any of the information.

Sigh.
 

monty10

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Not to pick on any program in particular. Why the outrage now? Nobody remembers Sam Gilbert? John Wooden is idolized.
 

hawaiirsn

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If a Duke booster is paying players behind Coach K's back, would it not be an infraction if the booster is also handing out money to prospective physics and chemistry majors?
This is a good question. I was going to sign up to be one of the PhD student tutors for Duke freshmen athletes, but couldn't because I was going to be gone for research this Spring semester. I was hoping to get some sweet booster money to fund my plant research. I don't even need a sports car or ipad, just some soil moisture probes... Kidding aside, my friend is actually one of those tutors and legitimately helps her freshmen football DB study for Biology and Chemistry tests. I actually think from an academic perspective it would be fun and rewarding to work with one of these student athletes, especially if you got a somewhat academically motivated one (or maybe a flat-earther one-and-done player could be interesting too). They try to give them continuity with having someone work with them for a full academic year and help them set academic goals.

It will be interesting to see this all play out. The NCAA certainly could use a spark for some reform.
 

Reverend

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This is a good question. I was going to sign up to be one of the PhD student tutors for Duke freshmen athletes, but couldn't because I was going to be gone for research this Spring semester. I was hoping to get some sweet booster money to fund my plant research. I don't even need a sports car or ipad, just some soil moisture probes... Kidding aside, my friend is actually one of those tutors and legitimately helps her freshmen football DB study for Biology and Chemistry tests. I actually think from an academic perspective it would be fun and rewarding to work with one of these student athletes, especially if you got a somewhat academically motivated one (or maybe a flat-earther one-and-done player could be interesting too). They try to give them continuity with having someone work with them for a full academic year and help them set academic goals.

It will be interesting to see this all play out. The NCAA certainly could use a spark for some reform.
I used to argue with my friends about this all the time. So many were so bitter that they got help and said they shouldn’t get it.

I wanted more people to get it—albeit structured to move them towards working independently which the athletic programs tend not to have.
 

DrewDawg

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https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-spreadsheets-wiretaps-bank-records-detail-payment-scheme-hoops-corruption-case-001618078.html

“There are spreadsheets detailing who got paid, how much they got paid and how much more they were planning to pay,” said a source familiar with the investigation. “The feds got everything they wanted and much more. Don’t think it will only be players who ended up signing with ASM that got paid. Those spreadsheets cast a wide net throughout college basketball. If your school produced a first-round pick in the past three years, be worried.”

According to the sources, the financial records from Miller and wiretap conversations featuring Dawkins illuminate the blatant nature of deal-making to land top talent well before the players turn professional. Those deals could threaten the current eligibility of players because of NCAA amateurism rules and retroactively put in peril the contests participated in by those players. Sources said this includes numerous prominent players in the upcoming NCAA tournament, the showcase of college basketball. “It’s all there,” said a different source familiar with the investigation.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not to pick on any program in particular. Why the outrage now? Nobody remembers Sam Gilbert? John Wooden is idolized.
The FBI didn't conduct a 2-year investigation back in the Wooden days. I think the "outrage" is more people who are sitting back with popcorn waiting for the movie to begin. It should be a good one too.
 

Reverend

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The FBI didn't conduct a 2-year investigation back in the Wooden days. I think the "outrage" is more people who are sitting back with popcorn waiting for the movie to begin. It should be a good one too.
Are the sums of money even comparable, to say nothing of the issues involving sports gambling and the concern with corruption there?
 

JimBoSox9

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Are the sums of money even comparable, to say nothing of the issues involving sports gambling and the concern with corruption there?
Sports gambling, certainly. That one dates to 1919, and if you don't believe me (which is obviously outside the boundaries of the possible), spend a day or two reading through state-by-state regulations, sir.
 

benhogan

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Maybe this leads to the end of the1 and done era, creating a plethora of studs in the 2019 draft...

The Kings are dead, long live the Celtics 2019 pick!
 

DrewDawg

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More details, including copies of spreadsheets: https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html

There’s potential impermissible benefits and preferential treatment for players and families of players at Duke, North Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, Michigan State, USC, Alabama and a host of other schools. The documents link some of the sport’s biggest current stars – Michigan State’s Miles Bridges, Alabama’s Collin Sexton and Duke’s Wendell Carter – to specific potential extra benefits for either the athletes or their family members. The amounts tied to all of the players in the case range from basic meals to tens of thousands of dollars.
Other names like Fultz and Kuzma pop up.
 

Clears Cleaver

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“And we will all go down....together”

Expect K, Roy and Izzo to retire. Their all old anyways. Cal will take a pro job. Etc.

Understand that once FBI has reason, they’ll start subpoenaing bank records. Then it will expand to others who paid Mom and whomever else off.
 

Average Reds

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This shows a stunning lack of understanding of how it all works. The top guys that K gets are getting the shoe contract anyway because they are the #1/2/3 studs and because they are getting the national attention of playing 25 games a year on TV at Duke. They don't need to be paid to attend the best program (Duke). Being blessed by receiving an offer to Duke is the payment itself.

Oops.
 

canderson

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This might be Texas' new AD's opportunity to replace Shaka Smart. Texas has been meeting since learing of this earlier this week about the future of the program (note: it's a colossal tire fire already).
 

Average Reds

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And what is the specific allegation?

Oh wait there isn’t anything in that article that you’re oopsing
As noted above, Wendell Carter is one of the players named as receiving improper benefits. It's not hard to realize that he's the tip of the iceberg.

Your smug condescension here reminds me of your prediction in the Hurricane Sandy game thread, where you pronounced the storm to be a big nothingburger for NYC right before the surge hit.
 
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