Annual NFL Coaching Carousel

[dcmissle]

Are there any openings left apart from Cleveland?

Memo to NFL:

Because your calendar is quite elastic for marketing reasons -- let's lay claim to this month or that -- you ought to seriously consider a moratorium on coaching interviews and hires from the end of the regular season through the SB. That's 5 weeks. There are people on the SF and Sea staffs who probably deserve a serious look.

 

[Stitch01]

Vikings, although Zimmer seems like a frontrunner

 

[Gunfighter 09]

 
In that case, I'll quit digging myself deeper.
 
 
 
Here are the guys who were drafted in rounds 4-7 (I cannot find a reliable list of all undrafted QBs), and made 50+ starts (by decade):
 
2000s:  David Garrard, Kyle Orton, Tom Brady, Marc Bulger, Derek Anderson, Matt Cassell, Ryan Fitzpatrick (7 players)
1990s:  Scott Mitchell, Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell, Jeff Blake, Gus Frerotte (4 players)
1980s:  Rich Gannon, Steve Beuerlein, Mike Pagel, Eric Hipple, Rodney Peete, Mark Rypien, Stan Humphries, (7 players)
1970s:  Joe Theismann, Vince Ferragamo, Steve Grogan, Bob Avellini, Pat Haden (5 players)
 
I don't think the odds have gotten much worse of finding a QB capable of starting for a few years, but I can't say for sure without a comprehensive list of all undrafted players (I purposely excluded players drafted after round 7, assuming they would be undrafted today).

 
The ones that come immediately to mind are Warner and Romo. I thought Matt Hasselbeck was drafted.

 

[Euclis20]

And Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia and Warren Moon.  I'm sure there are more, even back in the day when there were more than 7 rounds in the draft.
 
Hasselback was taken in the 6th round in 1998.  Dunno how I missed him earlier.

 

[RFDA2000]

Are there any openings left apart from Cleveland?

Memo to NFL:

Because your calendar is quite elastic for marketing reasons -- let's lay claim to this month or that -- you ought to seriously consider a moratorium on coaching interviews and hires from the end of the regular season through the SB. That's 5 weeks. There are people on the SF and Sea staffs who probably deserve a serious look.

 
I've thought that myself, but it's not like the front offices of the teams not in the playoffs have taken the last few weeks off.  They're prepping for FA and the draft.  You probably want to know who your coach is while you're working on your roster construction for 2014 so the groceries fit the cook.

 

[Corsi]

Vikings are hiring Mike Zimmer as their HC, per league source.
 

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/423481116298076160

 

[Infield Infidel]

Why don't teams wait until after the playoffs to hire coaches from the teams that actually do well? Shit franchises stay shit franchises until . . . 

 

[Stitch01]

I think Zimmer is a pretty good hire to be honest.

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

 
One candidate Vikings HC Mike Zimmer is considering as his offensive coordinator is Browns OC Norv Turner, per league sources.

 
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/423484599990095873

 

[RhaegarTharen]

I think I'm fine with Zimmer. I don't know that much about him, but the Bengals defense has impressed me over the past couple years, and I liked what I saw of him on Hard Knocks. How much of their defensive success has to do with scouting & drafting (and how big his role there) remains to be seen. I'll have to do more research on Zimmer, but I feel better going this route than hiring a shitty retread like Caldwell.

Less sold on Turner as OC, but it might work out ok. If he can get Hoyer/Campbell to play a respectable QB, he ought to be able to help with our biggest offensive need.

 

[Stitch01]

I think Norv is a really, really good OC hire.

 

[tims4wins]

I think Norv is a really, really good OC hire.

 
Agreed. As much as we like to shit on him for his head coaching stints, he has always been a top notch OC. And at 62, he probably isn't looking for another head coaching gig anyway, so he could be on board for several years. Kind of like a Crennel.

 

[Shelterdog]

I think Norv is a really, really good OC hire.

 
It tells you something about how good Norv is that a top defensive mind who's been game planning against him lately tagged him

 

[Stitch01]

Wade Phillips‏@sonofbum1h
Disappointed not even an interview after 7 straight full seasons of top 10 D with 3 different teams. Last 5 times as D C= playoffs1st yr
 

Wade Phillips want to let twitter readers know he's sad.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Wade Phillips want to let twitter readers know he's sad.

Wade Phillips just being on twitter is hilarious in the first place. Him tweeting that is even better.

 

[Rudi Fingers]

Wade Phillips want to let twitter readers know he's sad.

 
Top 10 D was a fluke for the Texans in '13 - Houston was ranked 18th in DVOA by Football Outsiders.  
 
Just rewind to the loss against the Patriots - "top 10" defenses don't give up 28 first downs and 457 yards in a game (307 yards in the second half alone)...

 

[NortheasternPJ]

@FakeSportsCentr: For those interested in the Browns head coaching position, you can apply via Craigslist: http://t.co/PGaLFp5KXa

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Here's a list of every QB that went undrafted and started 50 or more games in NFL history:
 
http://pfref.com/tiny/MgOAg
 
Krieg, Jim Hart, Kitna, Zorn are some that weren't mentioned.
 
Edit: and Jay Fiedler!

 

[soxhop411]

RT @gggaughan: I'm hearing Mike Pettine is going to get Browns job. A deal is close.
 
https://twitter.com/gggaughan

 

[soxhop411]

https://twitter.com/brian_mcintyre/status/426203865600778240
RT @TonyGrossi: Confirmed: #Browns and #Patriots OC Josh McDaniels had more conversations this week. Possibly back in mix.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Eh, take him. I'd like to see if all of our bitching had some merit.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Mike Pettine to be named Cleveland Browns head coach per Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland Plain-Dealer.
 
https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/426454095277211654

 

[E5 Yaz]

Mike Pettine to be named Cleveland Browns head coach per Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland Plain-Dealer.
 
https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/426454095277211654

 
Is this a step up or down from Chud?

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
Is this a step up or down from Chud?

Remains to be seen.  I'd say it's a lateral move.

 

[Morning Woodhead]

His track record is pretty good, but this can't be what the Browns had in mind.  When they fired Chud, I always assumed they had a coach lined up.  The longer it played out, the worse it looked for Cleveland.  I have to imagine firing a coach after 1 season where you were clearly not trying to win, turned a bunch of candidates away. 

 

[Shelterdog]

Remains to be seen.  I'd say it's a lateral move.

 
Exactly.
 
It's pretty nice for New England though because Pettine did a pretty great job coaching the Bills D up.

 

[Tony C]

Yep..that's my reaction. Bad move for Cleveland as Chud was fine and no reason to think Pettine will be superior. But excellent for the Pats since he was a top notch DC in our division.

 

[mauf]

If Lombardi was convinced after one season that Chud wasn't the guy, why should he wait a season or two to bite the bullet instead of cutting bait now? It'a an unfortunate situation that will cost the Browns money, and might cost Lombardi his preferred HC, but none of that is so bad that Lombardi should seriously consider retaining a HC he has decided isn't the right man for the job.

 

[moly99]

Unless Chudzinski was a complete moron behind the scenes, I don't see how you can really tell after one year, though. It really seems like he was simply not "Lombardi's guy" rather than a bad coach.

 

[Super Nomario]

Unless Chudzinski was a complete moron behind the scenes, I don't see how you can really tell after one year, though. It really seems like he was simply not "Lombardi's guy" rather than a bad coach.

Can you tell if your co-workers (or employees if you're a boss) aren't good at their jobs after a year?

 

[moly99]

Most jobs have a sample size of larger than 16 attempts to complete a task per year, though. Everyone I've ever trained for a new job has failed several times during their first 16 tries. Unless Chudzinski failed in ways that suggested he couldn't learn from his mistakes I don't think it's justified to fire him that quickly.
 
I hate to be that guy who points out Belichick's history with Cleveland . . . but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in that org's judgement of the coaching talent they have.

 

[Super Nomario]

Most jobs have a sample size of larger than 16 attempts to complete a task per year, though. Everyone I've ever trained for a new job has failed several times during their first 16 tries. Unless Chudzinski failed in ways that suggested he couldn't learn from his mistakes I don't think it's justified to fire him that quickly.

I agree with you that if they fired Chudzinski because he went 4-12, that's stupid. But Banner and Lombardi are obviously in a much better position to evaluate how he manages players, runs practices, teaches, responds to new information, works with the front office, works with his assistant coaches, etc. From the outside, those 16 games are a big part of what we have to go on, but the folks on the inside have a ton more information.
 

I hate to be that guy who points out Belichick's history with Cleveland . . . but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in that org's judgement of the coaching talent they have.

Different org. Belichick effectively worked for what is now the Baltimore Ravens.

 

[soxfan121]

Can you tell if your co-workers (or employees if you're a boss) aren't good at their jobs after a year?

 
All I know is that when Cleveland had an average QB (Brian Hoyer) they looked average and when they had a below average QB they looked below average (Campbell) and when they had an awful, terrible, no-good QB (Weeden) they looked awful, terrible and no-good. 
 
IOW, what did you want Chudzinski to do, Mike Lombardi? There are very few coaches who can turn chicken shit into chicken dinner and Chud wasn't one of them. I doubt Pettine is either. So, if Pettine is going to last more than one season, he's gonna need average QB play. 

 

[Super Nomario]

All I know is that when Cleveland had an average QB (Brian Hoyer) they looked average and when they had a below average QB they looked below average (Campbell) and when they had an awful, terrible, no-good QB (Weeden) they looked awful, terrible and no-good. 
 
IOW, what did you want Chudzinski to do, Mike Lombardi? There are very few coaches who can turn chicken shit into chicken dinner and Chud wasn't one of them. I doubt Pettine is either. So, if Pettine is going to last more than one season, he's gonna need average QB play. 

Yeah ... you're not reading what I'm posting.
 
EDIT, to clarify: I (largely) don't disagree with what you're writing about the results, but the braintrust in Cleveland has way, way more access than we do to the process, which is what they should be concerned about at this point anyway. If they fired him for results, that's stupid. But I don't know why we'd assume they'd fire him for results, versus any number of more logical reasons.

 

[soxfan121]

I've got no more insight in Cleveland's process than you do. I did read the stories about Lombardi asking Chudzinski to cut someone late in the season, with Chud refusing, so that could be one part of the process that's come to light (and we could speculate upon). 
 
However, if Chud's firing was all about process (and not about results), it speaks poorly of Cleveland's hiring process as there were known "process" issues with Chudzinski in Carolina (where the offensive players reportedly hated him). We agree on the definition of insanity, right? Well, it seems Cleveland's process is certifiably insane.

 

[mauf]

I've got no more insight in Cleveland's process than you do. I did read the stories about Lombardi asking Chudzinski to cut someone late in the season, with Chud refusing, so that could be one part of the process that's come to light (and we could speculate upon).

However, if Chud's firing was all about process (and not about results), it speaks poorly of Cleveland's hiring process as there were known "process" issues with Chudzinski in Carolina (where the offensive players reportedly hated him). We agree on the definition of insanity, right? Well, it seems Cleveland's process is certifiably insane.


Chud wasn't Lonbardi's hire. (Someone informed me of this upthread; it hasn't been mentioned much in the media coverage.)

When you think of Chud as someone Lombardi inherited instead of as someone he hired, the decision makes sense -- if the HC you inherited didn't knock your socks off, would you retain him after a 4-12 season?

 

[Stitch01]

Kubiak to the Ravens
 
EDIT: Think he's a potentially horrible fit with Flacco's skill set, but we shall see.

 

[soxfan121]

Kubiak is a good fit with Ray Rice's skillset, though. 

 

[Super Nomario]

Kubiak is a good fit with Ray Rice's skillset, though. 

And Bernard Pierce's.
 
Kubiak might be good. They hardly threw deep with Schaub at all, but that might have just been Kubiak (smartly) tailoring the offense to Schaub's (limited) skill set. The Texans generally did a good job manufacturing easy throws off play action, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Flacco back over 60% completion rate in 2014.

 

[Stitch01]

Most Texans fans I know were pretty down on Kubiak for an inability to make adjustments and an overly conservative game plan.  Hard to say how much was tailoring to his personnel.  Not sure Baltimore is that well suited to be a run first offense going forward, lots of wear on those Ray Rice tires.

 

[Tony C]

 
All I know is that when Cleveland had an average QB (Brian Hoyer) they looked average and when they had a below average QB they looked below average (Campbell) and when they had an awful, terrible, no-good QB (Weeden) they looked awful, terrible and no-good. 
 
IOW, what did you want Chudzinski to do, Mike Lombardi? There are very few coaches who can turn chicken shit into chicken dinner and Chud wasn't one of them. I doubt Pettine is either. So, if Pettine is going to last more than one season, he's gonna need average QB play. 

 
I tend to agree that the team looked competitive under Chud when they had competitive players, less so when they were hit with injury after injury. But his not being Lombardi's guy is key. The other significant complaint I've heard about him is that he preferred Weeden over the competitors and played him (at times, amid all the injuries) over Hoyer/Campbell. If that's true, I could see why a GM would pull his hair out since Weeden really does seem like an obvious dead-end.

 

[soxfan121]

I think y'all are making too much of the "he wasn't Lombardi's guy" thing. Chudzinski was Joe Banner & Jimmy Haslem's guy. Lombardi is Banner & Haslem's guy. 
 
Regardless of who was who's guy, the fact is that Lombardi & Banner & Haslem fucked this up. They fired a guy after one season and couldn't secure a top guy and they are now stuck with a guy who, a year ago, didn't get a mention as a HC candidate. The far smarter thing to do would have been to ride out another year of Chudzinski UNLESS he was doing something so inappropriate and/or stupid he had to be fired. I'm talking Petrino level inappropriate, not playing Brandon Weeden. (although that's pretty stupid)
 
In another thread, it's mentioned the Browns had 5 Pro Bowlers in 2013. There's talent here. There's two first round picks. There's cap space. And instead of being the most desirable job available, it was treated like a toxic dump site. While some of that is general Cleveland Sucks, most of it is "it must suck to work for Lombardi/Banner/Haslem". That's not a good thing, short or long term. 

 

[Shelterdog]

Most Texans fans I know were pretty down on Kubiak for an inability to make adjustments and an overly conservative game plan.  Hard to say how much was tailoring to his personnel.  Not sure Baltimore is that well suited to be a run first offense going forward, lots of wear on those Ray Rice tires.

 
A nice thing about the zone running offenses (like Kubiak has run for years) is that you can put the offensive line together on the cheap because you're looking for quicker, smaller guys rather than the giant Michael Oher types who can hold up in pass protection and run power.  Plus you can protect a QB who's not good at reading defenses or adjusting on the line because so much of your offense is going to be driven by play-action. 
 
And lo and behold the Ravens have two giant Michael Other type tackles who would be expensive re-signs, and they don't have much room.  And hey, Flacco isn't great at reading the defense but man can he throw (especially on the run on bootlegs).
 
Kubiak is a pretty good fit for their players once you realize they might be bringing in two new tackles.

 

[Stitch01]

I think y'all are making too much of the "he wasn't Lombardi's guy" thing. Chudzinski was Joe Banner & Jimmy Haslem's guy. Lombardi is Banner & Haslem's guy. 
 
Regardless of who was who's guy, the fact is that Lombardi & Banner & Haslem fucked this up. They fired a guy after one season and couldn't secure a top guy and they are now stuck with a guy who, a year ago, didn't get a mention as a HC candidate. The far smarter thing to do would have been to ride out another year of Chudzinski UNLESS he was doing something so inappropriate and/or stupid he had to be fired. I'm talking Petrino level inappropriate, not playing Brandon Weeden. (although that's pretty stupid)
 
In another thread, it's mentioned the Browns had 5 Pro Bowlers in 2013. There's talent here. There's two first round picks. There's cap space. And instead of being the most desirable job available, it was treated like a toxic dump site. While some of that is general Cleveland Sucks, most of it is "it must suck to work for Lombardi/Banner/Haslem". That's not a good thing, short or long term.

Agree with all of this, especially since they lost two (IMO) top tier coordinators to boot. Chud clearly had zero desire to play Weeden unless absolutely forced to from very early on on the season, so that's a pretty weak reason to fire him. Now they are locked into a guy that was clearly their third or fourth choice for at least two seasons since the job will be even more of a toxic waste dump this offseason.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

 
A nice thing about the zone running offenses (like Kubiak has run for years) is that you can put the offensive line together on the cheap because you're looking for quicker, smaller guys rather than the giant Michael Oher types who can hold up in pass protection and run power.  Plus you can protect a QB who's not good at reading defenses or adjusting on the line because so much of your offense is going to be driven by play-action. 
 
And lo and behold the Ravens have two giant Michael Other type tackles who would be expensive re-signs, and they don't have much room.  And hey, Flacco isn't great at reading the defense but man can he throw (especially on the run on bootlegs).
 
Kubiak is a pretty good fit for their players once you realize they might be bringing in two new tackles.

 
Not sure I would classify Monroe as a "giant" but agree that he is going to be an expensive re-sign and the Ravens might be bringing in two new tackles.
 
As a side note, one of the great mysteries in Ravens-land is how Michael Oher went from potential pro bowl right tackle to one of the 10 worst tackles in the league.

 

[Super Nomario]

I think y'all are making too much of the "he wasn't Lombardi's guy" thing. Chudzinski was Joe Banner & Jimmy Haslem's guy. Lombardi is Banner & Haslem's guy. 
 
Regardless of who was who's guy, the fact is that Lombardi & Banner & Haslem fucked this up. They fired a guy after one season and couldn't secure a top guy and they are now stuck with a guy who, a year ago, didn't get a mention as a HC candidate. The far smarter thing to do would have been to ride out another year of Chudzinski UNLESS he was doing something so inappropriate and/or stupid he had to be fired. I'm talking Petrino level inappropriate, not playing Brandon Weeden. (although that's pretty stupid)
 
In another thread, it's mentioned the Browns had 5 Pro Bowlers in 2013. There's talent here. There's two first round picks. There's cap space. And instead of being the most desirable job available, it was treated like a toxic dump site. While some of that is general Cleveland Sucks, most of it is "it must suck to work for Lombardi/Banner/Haslem". That's not a good thing, short or long term. 

I think you're getting at some of the dysfunction here. I don't think they owed Chudzinski another year, but why did they hire him before Lombardi in the first place? Why did they hire Lombardi as VP of Player Personnel and then promote him to GM a couple months later? Who really has the power between Banner and Lombardi (and Ray Farmer)? These guys (Banner, Lombardi, Farmer, Pettine) have all shown some success in the NFL, but someone needs to throw a tent on this circus.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
Not sure I would classify Monroe as a "giant" but agree that he is going to be an expensive re-sign and the Ravens might be bringing in two new tackles.
 
As a side note, one of the great mysteries in Ravens-land is how Michael Oher went from potential pro bowl right tackle to one of the 10 worst tackles in the league.

 
 
I was surprised Monroe was only 6'5" 309 as his combine--I always thought he looked bigger than that.  Anyhow he's a tough re-sign and they likely end up with a smaller, cheaper, worse player at the position.

 

[soxfan121]

 
 
I was surprised Monroe was only 6'5" 309 as his combine--I always thought he looked bigger than that.  Anyhow he's a tough re-sign and they likely end up with a smaller, cheaper, worse player at the position.

 
Ricky Wagner, come on down!

 

[singaporesoxfan]

As a side note, one of the great mysteries in Ravens-land is how Michael Oher went from potential pro bowl right tackle to one of the 10 worst tackles in the league.

So what happened to Oher blindsided Baltimore?

 

[singaporesoxfan]

More seriously, Kubiak has some talents amid his flaws. The one that struck me was that it always seemed like he could design schemes to get people open. Even Andre Johnson, despite Johnson being an obvious target. The problem was that he would call some play that didn't involve the wide open players.