And on this farm he had some prospects B-L-O-O-M

Petagine in a Bottle

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In terms of “major turnover”, they’ve already turned over half the opening day roster. I think part of the frustration on part of the players is the constant revolving door of the past few years. Granted- a lot of that is on the players who have played poorly…
 

chawson

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The Twins currently employ Sandy Leon. Choosing Plawecki over Leon seems like a pretty reasonable choice.
Disagree. Sandy León’s a plus-plus pitch caller and several Twins pitchers have improved a lot since he got there (Gray, Archer, Ryan). He’s better defensively, has a much quicker poptime and he’s better than Plawecki at throwing runners out.
 

scottyno

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The Twins currently employ Sandy Leon. Choosing Plawecki over Leon seems like a pretty reasonable choice.
Neither can hit, 1 can actually play catcher. Also not that it matters much, but Leon might be about to be DFAed too as the guy he replaced on the roster is nearing a return.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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This is well argued but I still think the reaction is overblown. Releasing Plawecki today may be a “mistake” if we gauge public reaction, but so too would have been cutting him in late August while the team a) was breaking in a brand new catcher in McGuire and b) arguably still had a chance to make a run.

If there’s simply no way for Bloom to avoid making mistakes, according to media narratives, then I think the real problem is elsewhere.
I honestly don't know the answer to this question. I don't think that you're wrong that the Sox needed more time to determine whether McGuire was up to the task of handling the team and whether Wong was ready for the Majors. But at the same time, Plawecki has pretty much sucked all year so if McGwire or Wong didn't take to the job, what exactly was he going to do? If those two guys are collectively batting .220 with no power and shitty defense, it's not Plawecki is going to come in and save the position.

To me, it seems that it's odd timing to get rid of a popular veteran catcher. Especially since the sound and fury of getting rid of another popular catcher has died down.

Going to play Devil's Advocate here, but doesn't DFA'ing Plawecki now at least give him a chance to say good-bye to the clubhouse?
You know how baseball's unwritten rules are (and I absolutely abhor them as much as anyone, I think that they're so dumb and is a huge reason why baseball never seems to move forward), but a majority of ball players attempt to follow them and give folks the stink eye who don't. With that being said, I think that many ballplayers think that cutting a guy with two weeks left is a bad look. And if there's one thing that ballplayers hate is the look of injustice, especially against a popular teammate. Does this mean that Bloom needs to take the temperature of the room before he makes every move? Absolutely not. But at the same time, I would bet that Eovaldi (or whomever) would argue that there's no harm in giving Plawecki the dignity of finishing out the year*. Maybe Bloom should have given that a little thought before letting him go on September 16.

I agree that it seems kind of heartless to boot a guy with so little time left of a completely blown season.

* Of course you could argue back to Eovaldi (or whomever) that maybe if the MLBPA didn't roll over on trimming the September rosters to 28 instead of 40 we wouldn't be having this conversation at all, but baseball players aren't exactly the most self-reflecting lot and would probably punch you in the stomach if you suggested that, so ...
 

AlNipper49

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Both Sandy Leon and Plawecki are complete piles of shit that were pooped out by the baseball gods behind home plate.

My 10 year old's rec team apparently has more fortitude than a major league baseball team. Little Freddy didn't make the last game because his mom said that he was too tired from a sleepover the prior night. After much duress, the team managed to put it all together and win a nailbiter 34-23 after 3 innings of tense, professional baseball. Maybe they can call Eovoldi and offer him some pointers.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm imagining the 10yos in the dugout, raising their juice boxes pre-game and toasting "for Freddy" before playing his walkup music and taking the field.
 

moondog80

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Mountain out of a molehill. Nobody will remember this in two weeks and it will have zero impact on any future negotiations.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Mountain out of a molehill. Nobody will remember this in two weeks and it will have zero impact on any future negotiations.
You don't get it. Freddy is liked. His dad has one of the nicer minivans for carpools. His mom brings NAME BRAND JUICE BOXES and Fruit Rolls when it is her turn to bring snacks, not Kirkland crap. The kids are going to see him in school every day.
 

moondog80

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You don't get it. Freddy is liked. His dad has one of the nicer minivans for carpools. His mom brings NAME BRAND JUICE BOXES and Fruit Rolls when it is her turn to bring snacks, not Kirkland crap. The kids are going to see him in school every day.
Fuck, you're right. Good luck on the 11U free agent market.
 

mikcou

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Neither can hit, 1 can actually play catcher. Also not that it matters much, but Leon might be about to be DFAed too as the guy he replaced on the roster is nearing a return.
Leon used to be a good defensive catcher - he hasnt been for a while. Plawecki hits better than a pitcher, Sandy does not.

I'm not even saying that I'd make that call, but the question is who would and picking Plawecki over Leon is a defensible decision.
 

lexrageorge

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I expect similar situations to happen to other teams in the coming years now that active rosters are capped at 28 instead of 40 for September.
 

YTF

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Going to play Devil's Advocate here, but doesn't DFA'ing Plawecki now at least give him a chance to say good-bye to the clubhouse?

He doesn't really get that chance dropping him in the off-season.
Not that I have an issue with the timing of his being DFAed, but why wouldn't he? He's a free agent at the end of the season who isn't likely to be back. Martinez is likely done here, he's not going to be able to say good bye to his team or the clubhouse after the last game?
 
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dhappy42

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It's apparently easy to forget that the previous two seasons, Plawecki OPS'd .857 and .737. Sure, he fell off a cliff this year, but "never should have been on the roster" seems like a pretty spicy take given his past performance.
Plawecki’s offense was fine for a backup catcher. But backup catchers gotta throw out base stealers too, and he sucked at that.
 

chrisfont9

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Leon used to be a good defensive catcher - he hasnt been for a while. Plawecki hits better than a pitcher, Sandy does not.

I'm not even saying that I'd make that call, but the question is who would and picking Plawecki over Leon is a defensible decision.
I don't think catching is a job you can parachute into in September. It's basically the only position on the team where you have to know a bunch of other guys on the team really well in order to help. Sure, the Sox can bring in a couple new guys because who cares, but a playoff team probably doesn't want to do that for a marginal upgrade.
 

Diamond Don Aase

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I expect similar situations to happen to other teams in the coming years now that active rosters are capped at 28 instead of 40 for September.
This is already happening. Just last week, the Cubs released Frank Schwindel, the Pirates designated Tyler Beede and Dillon Peters for assignment, and the Reds released Albert Almora. Almora and Beede joined their respective teams in early May while Peters and Schwindel were members of their respective clubs’ Opening Day rosters. If non-competitive teams do not take advantage of limited opportunities to evaluate players against major-league competition, they likely remain non-competitive teams.
 

YTF

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I love this place I honestly do, but at times I'm stumped by certain reactions to certain happenings with this team. "Play the kids, play the kids"..."Wong's hitting the cover off the ball down in WOOstah. He needs to be up here so we can get an idea if he' should be part of the plans for next season." WHAT??? They DFAed the third string catcher after determining to go with Wong? Those heartless motherfuckers!!!" This country's adopted a culture of outrage, I guess there's no reason to expect different here.
 

Sox Puppet

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There have been so many DFA's over the course of the year -- Robles, Austin Davis, Phillips Valdez, Sawamura, Familia, JBJ, etc. -- as well as Dalbec and Duran being sent down, Christian Vazquez being traded, Chris Sale falling apart again and again, and so forth. Maybe the Plawster was just the straw that broke the camel's back. But yeah, it seems excessive given the broader context of turnover and upheaval. Vazquez was really the only one I felt bad about.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Yeah the following players from the opening day roster are no longer on the active roster

Crawford (IL)
Davis
Diekman
Eovaldi (IL)
Houck (IL)
Robles
Sawamura
Valdez
Plawecki
Vazquez
Arauz
Dalbec
Shaw
Bradley
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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From the 2021 opening day roster, only 9 are on the active roster; with Houck, Eovaldi, Cordero, and Taylor on the IL.

Hernandez
Bogaerts
Devers
Verdugo
JD
Arroyo
Pivetta
Barnes
Whitlock

Back it up to 2020, and I think Bogaerts, Devers, Verdugo, JD, Barnes, Brasier and Eovaldi remain.

By the start of next year, seems quite possible that we are down to 3 guys from the opening day roster 3 years earlier.
 
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joe dokes

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Over/under on number of "upset" RedSox that know the roster limit is not 40 anymore?
 

lexrageorge

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This is already happening. Just last week, the Cubs released Frank Schwindel, the Pirates designated Tyler Beede and Dillon Peters for assignment, and the Reds released Albert Almora. Almora and Beede joined their respective teams in early May while Peters and Schwindel were members of their respective clubs’ Opening Day rosters. If non-competitive teams do not take advantage of limited opportunities to evaluate players against major-league competition, they likely remain non-competitive teams.
So, according to the media and some posters here, among those team's GMs, Bloom must be the only one that doesn't care about team chemistry. Or doesn't know when to DFA a veteran player. Or doesn't know how to evaluate their team's AAA players on the cusp of making it to the majors. Or something. /s

FWIW, I'm not being dismissive of some players in the clubhouse being upset, although I doubt they are as upset as some are making them out to be (playing music is not a crime). Or Plawecki's agent making some quiet noise about it to friendly media contacts. But, at the end of the day, we are talking about a player with a career OPS+ of 79 and the reality of new roster rules that the MLB Players Association willingly approved. Bloom's first priority should not be the feelings of players that are unlikely to be with the team next year. It's almost as dumb as fans being upset that Theo Epstein signed Kevin Millar.
 

nvalvo

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(Holy shit Bradford needs to stop interrupting Chaim. He's a terrible interviewer.)

I thought Bloom made an interesting point in that interview that one aspect of this move was that the team needed the playing time to evaluate McGuire and Wong, so Plawecki wouldn't be playing going forward. He's going to be an FA — getting zero plate appearances for the last few weeks of the season would hurt his free agency much more than getting DFA'd by a last-place team auditioning its young guys, a move whose motivation everyone understands.

And now we read that he's catching on with the Rangers. So he'll presumably get a few games in, get a few more PA, get a few more innings caught, get a few more opportunities to show that he's finishing the year healthy...
 

grimshaw

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(Holy shit Bradford needs to stop interrupting Chaim. He's a terrible interviewer.)

I thought Bloom made an interesting point in that interview that one aspect of this move was that the team needed the playing time to evaluate McGuire and Wong, so Plawecki wouldn't be playing going forward. He's going to be an FA — getting zero plate appearances for the last few weeks of the season would hurt his free agency much more than getting DFA'd by a last-place team auditioning its young guys, a move whose motivation everyone understands.

And now we read that he's catching on with the Rangers. So he'll presumably get a few games in, get a few more PA, get a few more innings caught, get a few more opportunities to show that he's finishing the year healthy...
The first 5 minutes was Bradford forcing Bloom to ask him a question about his profession. It was extremely cringe.
 

chawson

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(Holy shit Bradford needs to stop interrupting Chaim. He's a terrible interviewer.)
The first 5 minutes was Bradford forcing Bloom to ask him a question about his profession. It was extremely cringe.
Embarrassing stuff. At least we get a wholesale admission from Bradford that new internal metrics show that conventional media coverage doesn’t translate into subscriptions so their editors now encourage them to cover baseball “like a reality show.”

I don’t know how anyone listens to this and doesn’t walk away with exponentially more faith in Bloom. That whole section around 45:00 where he talks about how much they prioritize good character and personality fits for Boston — contrary to all the superstitious bullshit everyone wants to believe about Bloom treating players “like numbers” — should be required listening for people fired up about this Plawecki nonsense.

I’d say I can’t wait until this generation of Boston media hacks ages out of the profession, but the Barstoolers and Jared Carrabises of the world are arguably worse.
 
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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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This wrap up-- as far as the future goes in regards to keeping and/or signing higher costing agents (homegrown entering FA or otherwise)- and that it has to be done with a strong farm system makes total sense. Those posters here that argue that, this supports that view, as opposed to the PAY THEM!!! types. It covers the possibilities of injury. It's why the Sox made a mistake signing Sale to that long term contract without having young cost controlled pitchers to step in. An injury to a super paid super star kills the team unless they have an affordable option... they can't just sign another FA contract "pitcher with no injury history". It's impossible to do.

Bloom argued that teams cannot afford to sign players to big contracts until the farm system exists to support them. He noted that the Dodgers could extend Betts for over $300 million not just because of their financial resources, but because they had developed a pipeline of homegrown talent to augment the big expenditures.
Juxtaposing the Betts trade with Rafael Devers' situation today, Bloom suggested that the Red Sox have positioned themselves to take that next step as a franchise.
"I do feel really strongly that we're pointed in the right direction with that, that we're on much better footing than we were a few years ago," Bloom said. "But we still need to keep going with that. If we make good choices, we should be able to win and contend along the way."
 

chrisfont9

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This wrap up-- as far as the future goes in regards to keeping and/or signing higher costing agents (homegrown entering FA or otherwise)- and that it has to be done with a strong farm system makes total sense. Those posters here that argue that, this supports that view, as opposed to the PAY THEM!!! types. It covers the possibilities of injury. It's why the Sox made a mistake signing Sale to that long term contract without having young cost controlled pitchers to step in. An injury to a super paid super star kills the team unless they have an affordable option... they can't just sign another FA contract "pitcher with no injury history". It's impossible to do.

Bloom argued that teams cannot afford to sign players to big contracts until the farm system exists to support them. He noted that the Dodgers could extend Betts for over $300 million not just because of their financial resources, but because they had developed a pipeline of homegrown talent to augment the big expenditures.
Juxtaposing the Betts trade with Rafael Devers' situation today, Bloom suggested that the Red Sox have positioned themselves to take that next step as a franchise.
"I do feel really strongly that we're pointed in the right direction with that, that we're on much better footing than we were a few years ago," Bloom said. "But we still need to keep going with that. If we make good choices, we should be able to win and contend along the way."
That's super interesting, basically a mission statement. Don't throw money at guys unless you have the depth to make the investment part of a winning structure. He inherited a pretty thin system of support, has been patching things together while building the foundation, and now seems to think it's go time? It makes total sense, although I'm not totally won over by the Sox' system resembling the Dodgers' or Rays'. Sounds like Bloom hedged a bit there too.

Also seems to be saying that they didn't keep Mookie because it would have just been a waste, like Trout on the Angels I guess?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Also seems to be saying that they didn't keep Mookie because it would have just been a waste, like Trout on the Angels I guess?
Yeah. Who'd want to spend 162 games watching Mike Trout? And Ohtani. Those Angels fans just don't know how bad they have it.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Oooh, sounds like a poll: Would you rather watch a team with Trout and Ohtani that never wins, or a team that wins without superstars? :eyeroll:
Who's the team without superstars? It's not the Sox. (At least for the time being). JMOH seems to continuously think the Sox have no fun players to watch, won't spend a dime and don't really even want to win.

Oh wait... that's being hyperbolic???
 

scottyno

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Yeah. Who'd want to spend 162 games watching Mike Trout? And Ohtani. Those Angels fans just don't know how bad they have it.
For a team with 2 of the biggest names in the league, including the biggest, and who play in one of the biggest markets in the country, the Angels don't draw particularly well, so apparently those fans don't want to spend 162 games watching them.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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For a team with 2 of the biggest names in the league, including the biggest, and who play in one of the biggest markets in the country, the Angels don't draw particularly well, so apparently those fans don't want to spend 162 games watching them.
They've drawn 2.3 million this year, good for 5th in the league, despite being 20 games under .500. Seems like they're drawing pretty well. Ohtani and Trout are undoubtedly a large reason why.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Who's the team without superstars? It's not the Sox. (At least for the time being). JMOH seems to continuously think the Sox have no fun players to watch, won't spend a dime and don't really even want to win.
Is that what I continuously think? Interesting.

I guess I should just stand on my head and check out the standings. This has been a fun team to watch this year. Non stop thrills and action!

Edit: their three best players (Devers, Bogaerts and Eovaldi) are probably out the door. Story is hurt and is not a star. Sale is always hurt. Please tell me why I should be optimistic about this team; aside from getting a lobotomy?
 

scottyno

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They've drawn 2.3 million this year, good for 5th in the league, despite being 20 games under .500. Seems like they're drawing pretty well. Ohtani and Trout are undoubtedly a large reason why.
Wonder why you picked 5th in the AL instead of saying they're 14th overall? When you're in the 2nd biggest market in baseball being 14th in attendance isn't very good.

Compare their attendance this year to every year since 2003.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Is that what I continuously think? Interesting.

I guess I should just stand on my head and check out the standings. This has been a fun team to watch this year. Non stop thrills and action!
Perhaps I should have been clear that it likely was just hyperbolic wrap-ups of what you're saying as a point to say you're being hyperbolic (your comments about the Angels fans, Trout and Ohtani). The entire board here continues to make pretty outrageous claims of what the "other sides" is supposedly saying which is rarely true from supposed "Bloom Apologists" to "Bloom Haters", etc.
I'm sorry you find no joy at all in this team. Yeah, it's been a shitty insanely god awful team but there's been some great moments and a very good run. Also, we're getting some views into the future of the team which I'm pretty excited about, at the ML level. What do the Angels have in the future? Trading Ohtani (maybe they'll get someone as good as Verdugo or as promising as Downs was?) and seeing Trout continuously injured? Watching Rendon continue to be horribly overpaid? Not developing good supporting cast and/or good pitching?
 

chrisfont9

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Yeah. Who'd want to spend 162 games watching Mike Trout? And Ohtani. Those Angels fans just don't know how bad they have it.
I wasn't saying anything about whether the Angels are fun to watch, just that -- applying Bloom's team-building philosophy from the quoted interview -- having one (actually two) megastars may not translate to wins. The Angels have clearly not surrounded their top two guys with the foundation that Bloom is talking about. Whether it's fun or not is a different topic.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Perhaps I should have been clear that it likely was just hyperbolic wrap-ups of what you're saying as a point to say you're being hyperbolic (your comments about the Angels fans, Trout and Ohtani). The entire board here continues to make pretty outrageous claims of what the "other sides" is supposedly saying which is rarely true from supposed "Bloom Apologists" to "Bloom Haters", etc.
I'm sorry you find no joy at all in this team. Yeah, it's been a shitty insanely god awful team but there's been some great moments and a very good run. Also, we're getting some views into the future of the team which I'm pretty excited about, at the ML level. What do the Angels have in the future? Trading Ohtani (maybe they'll get someone as good as Verdugo or as promising as Downs was?) and seeing Trout continuously injured? Watching Rendon continue to be horribly overpaid? Not developing good supporting cast and/or good pitching?
Yeah. This seasons sucks, that's all I'm saying. It's a little disingenuous for ultra Bloomers (not saying that this is you, Sandy) to keep saying, "No. Actually this team is really good! We've been unlucky (Or hurt. Or the stars didn't align. Or the rain forests.)" It's a shit team that wasn't put together well. And maybe that was the point, IDK.

This is the opposite of the 2015 team where there was optimism cresting over the hill. The Sox were in last place, but they had exciting young players that were coming up and you knew that they were going to be good. They played so well, that I didn't want the season to end. It was a joy to watch that team grow and mature over the last three months.

Where is that here? We have Verdugo, who's fine but his ceiling is maybe an All-Star berth on a bad team. Kike Hernandez is average. Pham and Refsnyder are replacement level players. Bogaerts is probably gone, Devers is probably right behind him. And that's doubly depressing. Story is decent, but IDK, does he excite you? Arroyo is a good ballplayer, but he reminds me of a Darren Bragg type. Casas is struggling (which is fine) and Wong/McGuire are okay. Martinez is a shell of himself. Pivetta, Hill, Wacha, etc. are third to fourth starters and their bullpen is a human gas can. I do like watching Bello pitch. I'm sorta excited about that.

What I've maintained throughout this entire year is that I like watching stars play. The Red Sox used to be lousy with stars, even when they stunk or were mediocre, they had really good players that you'd tune in to check out. These Red Sox are boring and yes, there have been a handful of exciting games, but is that what we're hanging our hat on here? Has the bar for this franchise sunk so low? That's pretty shitty and that's all I'm saying.

I wasn't saying anything about whether the Angels are fun to watch, just that -- applying Bloom's team-building philosophy from the quoted interview -- having one (actually two) megastars may not translate to wins. The Angels have clearly not surrounded their top two guys with the foundation that Bloom is talking about. Whether it's fun or not is a different topic.
I know you weren't and I wasn't making those comments toward you. I understand that was Bloom's philosophy and it's one that I 1000% disagree with. Baseball is entertainment, I want to watch good ballplayers play good baseball. You can't always have a good team, but good players are fun. I stay up to watch Angels games on MLB Network when I know that Trout or Ohtani are coming to bat (or in Ohtani's case, pitching). It stinks that Angels aren't good, but that's not their fault.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Wonder why you picked 5th in the AL instead of saying they're 14th overall? When you're in the 2nd biggest market in baseball being 14th in attendance isn't very good.

Compare their attendance this year to every year since 2003.
I picked 5th in the AL because that's how B-Ref lists them on the team page.

They have to split the LA market with the more successful Dodgers, they're terrible, and yet they've drawn 2.3 million and are smack dab in the middle of the attendance rankings. Given that the team stinks out loud that's very impressive, most bad teams draw flies, if that. Baltimore, for example, drew 793,000 or so last year.

I really wish you'd stop assigning nefarious motives every time a poster comments on one of your posts. It's not helpful at all.