The Truth like Paul Pierce.We could do this all day but the list of very good to great NBA players who struggled mightily in their first few seasons, especially those who were not lottery types or didn't have all the basic physical tools that teams seek out for a particular role. See Lou Williams for example.
This is not to argue that Edwards is any good or will have a long NBA career. But I am seeing no evidence whatsoever that anyone here has particular insight into what is going on with him besides the fact that he is undersized and needs to shoot well to stick. It would be surprising if anyone has a radically different take than that so I am not sure why him being on the roster is a problem.
Is he costing other players development time and reps? Is he really hurting the team? If so, how? If not, keeping a player with Edwards' potential skills around seems like a good idea in the event that he figures it out sooner rather than later. I don't recall Boston tying up a roster spot unnecessarily so I trust Ainge/Stevens to evaluate Edwards properly but maybe there are reasons to be concerned that these guys are keeping a guy who some feel is clearly not an NBA caliber player.
Edwards came in for 4 minutes to replace Pritchard who threw the ball away the first 2 times he touched it.The OP said that he didn't like what CE has done this year. CE has basically played in one game and went for 9 point on 8 shots. It was good enough that Brad obviously tried to build on it yesterday.
In those four minutes, the guy Edwards was trying to guard, the 6’8” SG Mykhailiuk, hit two three pointers. Maybe he gets them against PP too, but Edwards is always going to be a minus defender if he’s defending SGsEdwards came in for 4 minutes to replace Pritchard who threw the ball away the first 2 times he touched it.
I don't know if Brad clarified his thinking after the game, but to me real time it seemed like a move to settle Pritchard down in his first real NBA struggle.
I kind of doubt Edwards was really part of the rotation plan for the game. After that 4 minutes he never went back in.
If CE's is shooting from 27, 28 feet, probably 38% or 39% minimum. Would be great if he could hit some catch and shoot threes.If you believe Edwards is an NBA player, what percentage of threes does he need to hit to make up for the points he gives up at the other end?
Plus CE missed two shots - a pull-up and a wide-open 3P.In those four minutes, the guy Edwards was trying to guard, the 6’8” SG Mykhailiuk, hit two three pointers. Maybe he gets them against PP too, but Edwards is always going to be a minus defender if he’s defending SGs
Edwards looks to me like a guy who will go to Europe in a year or two, and will either play himself into another NBA shot in his mid to late 20s or not. Either seems possible. Alternatively (but far less likely), maybe he leaves Boston as salary mtching trade filler and winds up on a bad team where he can get miniytes and figure things out in the NBA.We could do this all day but the list of very good to great NBA players who struggled mightily in their first few seasons, especially those who were not lottery types or didn't have all the basic physical tools that teams seek out for a particular role. See Lou Williams for example.
This is not to argue that Edwards is any good or will have a long NBA career. But I am seeing no evidence whatsoever that anyone here has particular insight into what is going on with him besides the fact that he is undersized and needs to shoot well to stick. It would be surprising if anyone has a radically different take than that so I am not sure why him being on the roster is a problem.
That seems less of a knock on Edwards than on the coaching staff.In those four minutes, the guy Edwards was trying to guard, the 6’8” SG Mykhailiuk, hit two three pointers. Maybe he gets them against PP too, but Edwards is always going to be a minus defender if he’s defending SGs
Haven't played at the Y since I was a kid, the overhead track curved around the corners of the court taking the baseline jumpshot out of the game. I found better places to run......Jimmy from the Somerville Y might have looked good in the fourth quarter.....
38-39% from Carsen, maybe? it's really tricky with CE because he's capable of creating his own shot and shooting from very deep, which creates gravity. He really could use G-League reps.If CE's is shooting from 27, 28 feet, probably 38% or 39% minimum. Would be great if he could hit some catch and shoot threes.
CE isn't a park in the corner and shoot guy. Seems like he needs to have his hands on the ball and take 3s all over the court to get himself in rhythm. The thing is to me that he's basically unguardable given the way he shoots and how quick his release is. Of course, right now he doesn't have to be guarded because he's not making anything.
I'm not saying he's going to be in the NBA three years from now but it would be great if a light switch flipped on.
Semi seems like a decent enough option to have on a bench as a 8 / 9 / 10 guy. But no one's expecting more from him.38-39% from Carsen, maybe? it's really tricky with CE because he's capable of creating his own shot and shooting from very deep, which creates gravity. He really could use G-League reps.
I'll just add 38% is what Semi shot last season with better defense and no one was terribly excited about Semi last season. But Semi is strictly catch and shoot.
Brian Robb
@BrianTRobb
Brad Stevens on the double big starting lineup: "It's been too inconsistent to draw a conclusion."
He’s going to torture us with this lineup all year, isn’t he?
Kind of ironic, because for years Stevens has wanted to play smallHe’s going to torture us with this lineup all year, isn’t he?
Agreed.I just don’t get what the big win is with that lineup, even if you can sort of get it to work.
Honestly if I’m going for defense and no outside shot, I’d rather have Romeo out there than one of Theis/TT.
Hell, Semi is probably better.
The weird thing isn’t the experimentation. The weird thing is the extended, obstinate experimentation with this specific lineup that doesn’t even have much upside.Given this is a topic if discussion, the Cs have an action they are running where TT and Theis run a double screen handoff at the top of the key with Smart and then one or the other dives to the rim as soon as Smart gets the ball back. It didn't work when they just ran it against the Pistons because TT failed to finish but it did result in a good look.
FYI, I am not defending the lineup - just observing that they are clearly gathering data on whether it can work more than a few minutes.
Unless they decided to experiment for the first few weeks.The weird thing isn’t the experimentation. The weird thing is the extended, obstinate experimentation with this specific lineup that doesn’t even have much upside.
I’m sure there is a reason, probably something along these lines. My point is that I can’t find a reason that is good.Unless they decided to experiment for the first few weeks.
Whatever combo of Semi, Nesmith, Javonte, Grant can be your 4th wing on this team.If Semi can hit 3s at any type of volume, he could answer 2 of the Celtics biggest questions. I can't believe I'm actually saying this, but I wouldn't mind seeing him get more minutes. I think there are plenty of minutes up for grabs too. I know most would like to see those go to Nesmith but that doesn't appear to be in the cards.
Semi hitting 38% of his 3's on like 6-7 3PA/36 would probably put him in the starting lineup atm. Big if. I'd rather see him than Grant or the 2BL tho.
I think the 2-big lineup ends in earnest when Kemba is back. I think the only reason it's out there right now is Brad thinks those 5 are his 5 best players. Unfortunately, he's probably right.
That doesn't include today's performanceI just looked it up and if I am understanding the numbers correctly the Theis-Thompson-Tatum-Brown-Smart lineup is a net -22.1 rating in 55 minutes... so, yeah. The defensive rating is 120.
The Boston announcers said that they had no time outs left. Were they wrong?Why would DET choose to not use their last timeout and advance the ball with 2.9 seconds left? So weird
The Detroit announcers said the same thing. I'm guessing they have none leftThe Boston announcers said that they had no time outs left. Were they wrong?
The 2-3 3Q collapses I'm sure constitute a good portion of this number.That doesn't include today's performance
BUT -22.1 is really hard to do with how ridiculously efficient Jaylen Brown has been shooting this season
Blake Griffin is almost completely a perimeter player now, and can be defended better by someone like Semi who can move his feet and recover to closeouts.The lineup with Theis and Thompson seems in part to be necessitated by the need to match up with other teams that are also starting two big men. Plumlee & Griffin; Turner & Sabonis; Durant & Jordan. That's a lot of muscle.
The 2 big lineup with A LOT of muscle is Zion and Adams. They aren't surrounded by guys most people would consider elite shooters in Ball, Ingram and Bledsoe. 2 of those guys are questionable shooters, even.The lineup with Theis and Thompson seems in part to be necessitated by the need to match up with other teams that are also starting two big men. Plumlee & Griffin; Turner & Sabonis; Durant & Jordan. That's a lot of muscle.
it works because Stephen Adams and Zion are worlds better than Theis and TT. Zion is athletic enough to play perimeter defense for long stretches. While the C's are throwing 2 Centers on the floor that get lost on perimeter switches and neither can cover a wing for more than 10 seconds.The 2 big lineup with A LOT of muscle is Zion and Adams. They aren't surrounded by guys most people would consider elite shooters in Ball, Ingram and Bledsoe. 2 of those guys are questionable shooters, even.
Yet it somehow works.
Jaylen himself has a very slight negative net rating, it’s kind of crazy. The only players on the team with positive ones are RW3/Teague/Semi/PP/Tatum.That doesn't include today's performance
BUT -22.1 is really hard to do with how ridiculously efficient Jaylen Brown has been shooting this season
Tatum+bench plays to Tatum's skillset really really well. The current bench units have better spacing with PP/Semi/Teague, and also play TL, who is the C's best offensive center. Then you add into that Tatum's ability to pull up from 3, against bench players who aren't ready to handle it, and it's a great recipe.Jaylen himself has a very slight negative net rating, it’s kind of crazy. The only players on the team with positive ones are RW3/Teague/Semi/PP/Tatum.
The starting lineup has played 74 minutes together, with a net rating of -16.1. The next most common five man lineup is PP/Teague/Tatum/Semi/RW3, 21 minutes together with a net rating of +26. So the Tatum+bench lineup is destroying teams again, like last year.
Those are the only two lineups with more than 20 minutes played, but Tatums ability to play with all bench players and wreck other teams is pretty damn sexy.
Ahh, I was just watching the replay and it said 1 TO left for DET on the screen. Them not having one makes senseThe Boston announcers said that they had no time outs left. Were they wrong?
I think the bolded may true in theory, but I don't think it holds any water in reality. If the metrics bare this out, it's probably statistical noise. I've watched quite a few Pelicans games and Zion certainly isn't in game shape, and isn't the close out defender you make him out to be. He's also looked like he's lost a little bounce, unless he's made it a point to be less explosive to save his knees.it works because Stephen Adams and Zion are worlds better than Theis and TT. Zion is athletic enough to play perimeter defense for long stretches. While the C's are throwing 2 Centers on the floor that get lost on perimeter switches and neither can cover a wing for more than 10 seconds.
When the Celtics face them, Zion will torch us for 35pts if DT or TT cover him. I'd much rather see Semi guard Zion
What it gets is that Brad is to playTT 24 MI utes, DT 22 minutes, and RWill 16 mpg. And that is with everyone clamoring for RWill to get more minutes.What is the ultimate upside for the team if this 2-big lineup works out? (where "works out" = can score more points than it allows)
Yeah, I’d be totally fine lowering Theis or TT’s minutes, or even rotating planned rest. I don’t think maximizing Theis/TT minutes should be an objective of the coaching staff.Interesting That Brad is playing JT with TL (67 minutes) much more than with JB. I wonder if that's intentional.
One lineup I really like - Teague, Smart, JT, JB, and TL is +66 in 10 minutes.
What it gets is that Brad is to playTT 24 MI utes, DT 22 minutes, and RWill 16 mpg. And that is with everyone clamoring for RWill to get more minutes.
Neither TT or RWill have any ability to play the 4 so DT is going to have to play 4 unless you want to decrease his or TT's minutes. Will be interesting to see how this plays out over the course of the season if everyone stays healthy.
That's because you're a cold-hearted, nerd statistician and don't have to worry about "team chemistry".Yeah, I’d be totally fine lowering Theis or TT’s minutes, or even rotating planned rest. I don’t think maximizing Theis/TT minutes should be an objective of the coaching staff.
Incidentally, they’re already resting TT on back-to-backs, so if they just did that once in awhile for Theis (who probably could use it), there would be zero minutes crunch or broken promises.That's because you're a cold-hearted, nerd statistician and don't have to worry about "team chemistry".
You're probably correct but I guess the 2-Big experiment is going to keep going for a while, just to keep everyone happy. I mean who knows - maybe DA promised TT a "substantial role".
Wade, you could be right...Danny promising Klutch that TT would get a starting role and play X minutes, so Tristen retains his value for FA next season would suck but wouldn't shock me.That's because you're a cold-hearted, nerd statistician and don't have to worry about "team chemistry".
You're probably correct but I guess the 2-Big experiment is going to keep going for a while, just to keep everyone happy. I mean who knows - maybe DA promised TT a "substantial role".