Allen Craig Released

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
6,862
Hey. Listen. The Sox are gonna win the World Series this season so I'm pretty happy with how things are turning out
 

sean1562

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 17, 2011
3,674

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,547
Maine
Is it well established that Beltre's departure was the Sox' idea, and not his?
Well, it wasn't much of a secret that Theo coveted Gonzalez. That deal got done on December 6, 2010 and Beltre didn't sign in Texas until January 5, 2011. I don't remember much in the way of talk about Beltre and Theo doing much negotiating in the meantime, so it sure seemed like Beltre was going to at least test the market, even if returning was his preference. Ultimately though, whether Beltre wanted to re-sign or not, the decision was taken out of his hands so the obvious conclusion is that it was the Sox who didn't want him rather than he rejected them.
 

MuzzyField

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
The Sox stayed the course on their master plan and obviously placed high value on the draft picks to restock post trade for AG.
Given the season AB had you'd think they'd re-evaluate, which they probably did and still decided to stay the course. I think the mistake was not placing a higher value on AB's performance while actually playing for the team. Answering yes to 'can this player deal with Boston and thrive?' probably should have been given more consideration in the process.
This is a really interesting time to look back on given what followed.
 

trekfan55

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 29, 2004
11,743
Panama
The Sox stayed the course on their master plan and obviously placed high value on the draft picks to restock post trade for AG.
Given the season AB had you'd think they'd re-evaluate, which they probably did and still decided to stay the course. I think the mistake was not placing a higher value on AB's performance while actually playing for the team. Answering yes to 'can this player deal with Boston and thrive?' probably should have been given more consideration in the process.
This is a really interesting time to look back on given what followed.
I believe that Adrian Beltre became JBJ so it's not a bad deal in that sense. But I think the biggest mistake was not considering what Anthony Rizzo could do, and that Youks could hold the fort at 1st in the meantime while staying with Beltre long term.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,698
Newton
The one mitigating factor I would also consider in Theo's favor over letting Beltre walk is that the Sox had been killed by the injury bug in 2010 and missed the playoffs. In some respects this was one of Tito's best years given the injuries to Pedey, Youk and the performances he got out of the likes of guys like Bill Hall. So ownership may likely have been looking to make something of a splash that winter as well.
 

effectivelywild

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
472
The one mitigating factor I would also consider in Theo's favor over letting Beltre walk is that the Sox had been killed by the injury bug in 2010 and missed the playoffs. In some respects this was one of Tito's best years given the injuries to Pedey, Youk and the performances he got out of the likes of guys like Bill Hall. So ownership may likely have been looking to make something of a splash that winter as well.
There's also Beltre's role in causing some of the injury bug: https://www.sbnation.com/2010/6/11/2316361/adrian-beltre-sends-another-red-sox-outfielder-to-dl-as-jeremy
 

DanoooME

above replacement level
SoSH Member
Mar 16, 2008
20,051
Henderson, NV
IIRC, one of the major concerns was that Beltre was coming off of a really bad year in 2009 and had his 2nd best career season in 2010 (141 OPS+) with his career best in 2004. He wanted premium money and he was a guy coming off of his 27-31 years with OPS+s (going backwards) of 141, 83. 109, 112, 105. How good was he really? And would he be worth premium money (he ended up with a 5 year, $80M deal with a 2016 option for $16M that was voidable if he didn't reach certain PA levels)? At the time, he ended up being the 39th highest paid player in baseball for 2011 (and that would have been his lowest salary in the contract) and would have been the 4th highest paid player on the Sox (behind Beckett, Lackey and Crawford).

As it turns out, he ended up being so good, he got MVP votes all 6 of his years (since they picked up the option) and had OPS+ of 131, 139, 138, 144, 110, 129 with his usual stellar defense. In retrospect, it would have been nice for the Sox to sign him, but it was reasonably questionable at the time.
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
11,370
Beltre was also rumored to be a PED guy from his days in LA and Theo was moving away from those types of hitters to more multi-dimensional types. But who knows.

That being said, if he'd like to come back and finish out his career in Boston I'm all for it
 

ponch73

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2006
880
Stumptown via Chelmsford
IIRC, one of the major concerns was that Beltre was coming off of a really bad year in 2009 and had his 2nd best career season in 2010 (141 OPS+) with his career best in 2004. He wanted premium money and he was a guy coming off of his 27-31 years with OPS+s (going backwards) of 141, 83. 109, 112, 105. How good was he really? And would he be worth premium money (he ended up with a 5 year, $80M deal with a 2016 option for $16M that was voidable if he didn't reach certain PA levels)? At the time, he ended up being the 39th highest paid player in baseball for 2011 (and that would have been his lowest salary in the contract) and would have been the 4th highest paid player on the Sox (behind Beckett, Lackey and Crawford).
Beltre put up an OPS+ of 141 with Boston in his age 31 season. There was also reason to believe that park effects suppressed his age 26-30 performance in Seattle whereas Fenway seemed tailor-made for his swing (49 doubles).

I think Beltre was an instance where Theo was focused on the downside risk of paying a third baseman $96 million over 6 years for his age 32-37 seasons.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Moderator
SoSH Member
May 20, 2003
36,231
Deep inside Muppet Labs
It was pretty well-publicized that Beltre came to Boston on a one-year make good deal in order to hit somewhere else besides Seattle and to maximize his next contract. He got 1 year, $10 million from the Sox. It was well-known that he was going to move on for 2011 no matter what.

Giving him the $96 million he got from Texas was viewed as quite risky. He was awful in Seattle for 5 straight years; Texas was essentially betting on the idea that his one year in Boston was more indicative of his ability than the previous 5 in Seattle. They were right, but that's not a bet teams should be making on a regular basis.
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
Giving him the $96 million he got from Texas was viewed as quite risky. He was awful in Seattle for 5 straight years; Texas was essentially betting on the idea that his one year in Boston was more indicative of his ability than the previous 5 in Seattle. They were right, but that's not a bet teams should be making on a regular basis.
He wasn't, really, other than 2009 when he was hurt. He played in Seattle back when Safeco was consistently one of the two or three worst offensive parks in baseball. His home/road wOBA split for his five years in Seattle was .311/.341; for his six-plus years in Texas it's been .405/.340. He didn't become a better hitter; he just left hitter's hell. He's the poster child for park effects creating deceptive overall stat lines.
 

HriniakPosterChild

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 6, 2006
14,841
500 feet above Lake Sammammish
He wasn't, really, other than 2009 when he was hurt. He played in Seattle back when Safeco was consistently one of the two or three worst offensive parks in baseball. His home/road wOBA split for his five years in Seattle was .311/.341; for his six-plus years in Texas it's been .405/.340. He didn't become a better hitter; he just left hitter's hell. He's the poster child for park effects creating deceptive overall stat lines.
And I recall him as an outstanding defender for the M's.