All-Overachievers Team

[Rovin Romine]

Sandy Leon Trotsky proposed we do an inverse of the All-Potential and All-Disappointment Teams.

So, this would be a "Surprise Finds" team... basically the reverse of the Disappointments. Guys that exceeded expectations for at least one full season."

The key to All-Overachievers Sox would be modest expectations greatly exceeded. Think scrappy over-achiever, surprise find, journeyman actually "putting it all together" when everyone has more or less given up on them. Utility guy who takes a main role and does it well.

1B: Brian Daubach
2B: BROCK HOLT! (team captain)
SS: John Valentin/Luis Rivera?
3B: Travis Shaw, Shea Hillenbrags, Carney Lansford
OF: Daniel Nava, Troy O’Leary, Clyde Vollmer
C:
DH: David Ortiz, Mike Carp

SP: Tim Wakefield, Steven Wright, Bronson Arroyo
RP: Andrew Miller, Rich "El Guapo" Garces, Hideki "hero in the dark" Okajima, Tom Gordon.

Managed by: Joe Morgan, Torey Lovullo
GM: Dan Duquette

 

[tims4wins]

2B Brock Holt
CF Darren Lewis

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Brian Daubach

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

I mean ... David Ortiz, right?

 

[Rovin Romine]

My thoughts:
Travis Shaw was never seen as anything more than a stopgap.
Andrew Miller, though hyped, was never much as a starter. The bloom was certainly off the rose when he transitioned to an elite reliever with the Sox.
Lovullo compiled a win-loss record of 28–20 (. 583) from August 14, 2015, through the final day of the season, October 4.

 

[Rovin Romine]

I mean ... David Ortiz, right?

Why?

 

[Rovin Romine]

CF Darren Lewis

Jimy, it that you?

 

[Hoya81]

Daniel Nava

 

[Delicious Sponge]

Troy O’Leary

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Why?

Well he was released by his previous organization and didn’t even get consistent playing time for a while.

Fair enough if it’s not in the spirit of the thread, though. I was also going to suggest Tim Wakefield (Also released and basically given up on) and Koji Uehara (fourth choice for closer in 2013), but I think they might not fit either?

 

[Rovin Romine]

Well he was released by his previous organization and didn’t even get consistent playing time for a while.

Fair enough if it’s not in the spirit of the thread, though. I was also going to suggest Tim Wakefield (Also released and basically given up on) and Koji Uehara (fourth choice for closer in 2013), but if that’s not the idea

Ortiz's 2002 to 2003 seasons are perfectly in line, and we picked him up as a potential full-time DH.

Wakefield was an elite pitcher for Pittsburg, then had control problems, as knuckleballers sometimes do, then didn't.

Koji Uehara was supposed to be a final bullpen arm. He was. Granted, he was spectacular when given the opportunity to take over the closer role.

***
I'm really not sure what this thread *should* be. And those 3 guys definitely had great seasons for us. But were they truly "surprise finds?" I can see an argument that they are. I can see an argument that they weren't.

It's an honest question for the thread.

Should I put those three in the list?

 

[tims4wins]

RP El Guapo???
RP Craig Breslow 2013 1.81 ERA

 

[Rovin Romine]

(whoops.)

 

[Archer1979]

Ortiz's 2002 to 2003 seasons are perfectly in line, and we picked him up as a potential full-time DH.

Wakefield was an elite pitcher for Pittsburg, then had control problems, as knuckleballers sometimes do, then didn't.

Koji Uehara was supposed to be a final bullpen arm. He was. Granted, he was spectacular when given the opportunity to take over the closer role.

***
I'm really not sure what this thread *should* be. And those 3 guys definitely had great seasons for us. But were they truly "surprise finds?" I can see an argument that they are. I can see an argument that they weren't.

It's an honest question for the thread.

Should I put those three in the list?

Honestly, Ortiz was the first one that I had thought of, but Wakefield and Koji make sense as well. All three (at least Ortiz and Wake were) were scrap heap acquisitions as their previous teams had given up on them and just given them their release. While Ortiz was more a salary dump, Wakefield was done as far as the Pirates were concerned. I'm not sure that anyone could have predicted the success that any of the three had with Boston.

I'll have to do some research as it was slightly before my time, but I think Tiant might fit into this category as well (not dumped per se, but that the idea that his best days were behind him before he came to Boston).

Edit: Ok... this was based on Wikipedia as it was the first hit for what I Googled but Tiant came to the Sox after being released by the Twins who thought was done due to injuries.

After an injury-plagued season in 1969, Tiant was traded to the Minnesota Twins in a multi-player deal that brought fellow pitcher Dean Chance and third baseman Graig Nettles to the Indians. With Minnesota, Tiant began 1970 with six wins, but then he fractured his right scapula, essentially ending his season and, some felt, his career. He showed some promise in the 1971 spring training, but he was released.

Boston Red Sox[edit]
The Braves signed him to a minor league contract to play with their Triple-A Richmond, where he pitched well, and was acquired by the Louisville Colonels, a farm team of the Boston Red Sox.

He was quickly called back up to the majors, and despite struggling through 1971 with a 1–7 record and 4.88 ERA, he would soon become one of the greatest and most beloved pitchers in Red Sox history and an idol in Boston. Becoming known as El Tiante at Fenway Park, in 1972 Tiant regained his old form with a 15–6 record and led the league with a 1.91 ERA. He would win 20 games in 1973 and 22 in 1974.

 

[Hoya81]

Ortiz and Wakefield, yes. They were signed with little to no fanfare and were not expected to be key contributors. Uehara had already been an effective pitcher for a few yeas and was coming off a 1.75 ERA season with the Rangers.

 

[Shaky Walton]

I thought Todd Walker gave them more than anyone expected in advance in 2003.

Josh Reddick would have made this team had Tito chosen to play him more instead of inexplicably favoring Darnell McDonald for too much of the time. But don't mind me, Reddick is one of my very few pet Tito peeves.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Yeah, upon further consideration, I do remember a lot of people being excited about Koji. It just took Farrell and Co. a little longer to catch on. Nomination withdrawn.

 

[Shaky Walton]

Bill Mueller and Kevin Millar both were way more than many thought they would be.

 

[Rovin Romine]

Good points all. I put in Ortiz and Wakefield for the moment.

 

[Rovin Romine]

So I have to step away from the computer for a bit.

Someone should copy the first post and just add to it now and then as they see fit, so there's a running total for people to look at. Whomever does that, please try to hold our very fuzzy standard in mind, mostly to prompt some good discussion.

One way or the other, I'll try to update the lead post at some point tonight.

 

[Hoya81]

What about Derek Lowe? He was an 8th round pick for Seattle and had posted middling stats in the minors before the Slocumb trade.

 

[tims4wins]

DH Reggie Jefferson 1996-1999??

 

[Ale Xander]

C: Varitek
1B: Millar
2B: Bellhorn
SS: Valentin
3B: Mueller
OF: O'Leary
OF: Crisp
OF: Nava
El Capitan/DH: Ortiz
UT/2B: Holt
"Retired" on top PH guy: Kielty
SP: Lowe
SU: Embree
CL: Uehara

 

[Ale Xander]

What about Derek Lowe? He was an 8th round pick for Seattle and had posted middling stats in the minors before the Slocumb trade.

If his value was 50% of Slocumb, he kind of overachieved by being clinching winning pitcher each series of the first championship in 86 years.

/understatement

 

[WestMassExpat]

scrappy over-achiever

Trot Nixon

surprise find

Koji Uehara

journeyman actually "putting it all together" when everyone has more or less given up on them

Mike Lowell
Mark Bellhorn

Edit: agree with whoever nominated Wake 1000x over -- the thread should be named after him doing whatever it took to stay in the game, then lasting for two decades

 

[Don Buddin's GS]

Steve Pearce says hello.

 

[YTF]

Doug Mirabelli behind the plate. B-ref has his 162 game average at 17 HR and 59 RBI over his 12 year career.

 

[RIrooter09]

Okajima getting no love here?

 

[mwonow]

I want to 3rd or 4th or whatever Daniel Nava, and embed his first ML AB as anecdata.

Kevin Millar was signed away from a team in Japan. As was Oki (under different circumstances), who was much better than I thought he'd be.

There's a better version of this that includes his parents, but...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9BLMdRRZ-s

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

It's early, but Garrett Whitlock might deserve a spot in the bullpen.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Trot Nixon

Koji Uehara

Mike Lowell
Mark Bellhorn

Edit: agree with whoever nominated Wake 1000x over -- the thread should be named after him doing whatever it took to stay in the game, then lasting for two decades

Nixon was the #7 overall draft pick in 1993. He wasn't an overachiever. Scrappy for sure, but expectations for him were arguably higher than he wound up acheiving.

Koji wasn't that much of a surprise to those who paid attention to him prior to arriving in Boston. There were a few posters here who wanted him in the closer spot way before he actually ended up there. That said, he still managed to out perform even the highest expectations, particularly in 2013.

As for Wake...the guy was drafted as an infielder. So the mere fact that he re-invented himself as a knuckleballer is reason enough to include him. That he had such a successful start then kinda flamed out in Pittsburgh exemplifies the variability of a knuckleballer. That he signed on with the Sox and did so well for another nearly 15 years is damn near miraculous.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Does Orlando Cabrera fill the SS hole?

 

[YTF]

Does Orlando Cabrera fill the SS hole?

He certainly did in '04.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I have to ask - was Wade Boggs an overachiever? After all, he didn't make the majors until he was almost 24 and no one thought he'd do what he did.

Oil Can Boyd was a 16th round draft pick. He should probably be in this list.

 

[tims4wins]

I have to ask - was Wade Boggs an overachiever? After all, he didn't make the majors until he was almost 24 and no one thought he'd do what he did.

Oil Can Boyd was a 16th round draft pick. He should probably be in this list.

Similar thought about Youk. 8th round pick who didn't debut until he was 25. Then he became a 3x AS.

Maybe Youk should actually be team captain the more I think about it. He should be 3B over Shaw. Unless Boggs counts.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I was never a fan but Shea Hillenbrand deserves a mention. Went from a non prospect to an all star.

 

[shaggydog2000]

Ortiz's 2002 to 2003 seasons are perfectly in line, and we picked him up as a potential full-time DH.

Wakefield was an elite pitcher for Pittsburg, then had control problems, as knuckleballers sometimes do, then didn't.

Koji Uehara was supposed to be a final bullpen arm. He was. Granted, he was spectacular when given the opportunity to take over the closer role.

***
I'm really not sure what this thread *should* be. And those 3 guys definitely had great seasons for us. But were they truly "surprise finds?" I can see an argument that they are. I can see an argument that they weren't.

It's an honest question for the thread.

Should I put those three in the list?

If you get picked up because a team thinks you might provide competition for Jeremy Giambi, and you end up playing for another 14 seasons, get named an all star 10 times, and get in conversations for the Hall of Fame, I think you're overachieving a bit.

Wake was good in his first season in Pittsburgh, then stunk the following year and spent all of 94 in AAA, and wasn't doing well there either. That he then played another 17 seasons for the Sox is a pretty big over-achievement to me. Considering he was a knuckleballer, he was probably pretty close to being out of baseball entirely.

Koji had really good seasons in Baltimore and Texas, I don't think it was that surprising that he was good in Boston. I loved his particular brand of good, and for one season he was absolutely incredible, but with his track record I don't find that season to be a huge overachievement.

 

[tims4wins]

Okajima getting no love here?

Great call

 

[Hoya81]

I have to ask - was Wade Boggs an overachiever? After all, he didn't make the majors until he was almost 24 and no one thought he'd do what he did.

Oil Can Boyd was a 16th round draft pick. He should probably be in this list.

I'd lean no on Boggs. He wasn't a high draft pick but became a well regarded prospect after hitting very well in the minors and won the IL batting title in his last season. They were confident enough that they traded an otherwise very good 3B to make room for him.

 

[Bernie Carbohydrate]

Come on. Walpole Joe has to manage this nine.

 

[jose melendez]

I’d go with some of those 1990 pitchers like Dana Kiev led, Tom Bolton and Greg Harris.


And for manager why not Farrell? He won a WS, even though he pretty clearly wasn’t good.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Similar thought about Youk. 8th round pick who didn't debut until he was 25. Then he became a 3x AS.

Maybe Youk should actually be team captain the more I think about it. He should be 3B over Shaw. Unless Boggs counts.

Youk debuted at age 25, but he barely spent 3 years in the minors because he was drafted out of college. He was the club's minor league player of the year twice in those three years as well. Despite the 8th round selection, he was considered a very good prospect by the time he came up. Not to mention he had gained the Moneyball notoriety as the "Greek God of Walks." Beane's desire to trade for him and Theo turning down Beane's offers elevated his status as well. While I think he might have exceeded expectations a bit with his power and arguably his defense (at 1B), it wasn't like the consensus on him was that he'd amount to nothing in the big leagues.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

Does Sandy Leon's 2016 count as a full season?

 

[Magimus]

Jonny Gomes? 2013 stat line wasn’t huge, but seemed to have huge moments at the right times

 

[bankshot1]

I don't know what expectations people here had for Dustin Pedroia, but ROY, MVP, the best fielding 2nd baseman in MLB his prime, one of the most entertaining Sox ever, and if not for injuries, IMO a very serious HoF candidate, probably exceeded my expectations of Dustin, in 2004.

 

[tims4wins]

Youk debuted at age 25, but he barely spent 3 years in the minors because he was drafted out of college. He was the club's minor league player of the year twice in those three years as well. Despite the 8th round selection, he was considered a very good prospect by the time he came up. Not to mention he had gained the Moneyball notoriety as the "Greek God of Walks." Beane's desire to trade for him and Theo turning down Beane's offers elevated his status as well. While I think he might have exceeded expectations a bit with his power and arguably his defense (at 1B), it wasn't like the consensus on him was that he'd amount to nothing in the big leagues.

On the flip side, he hit 31 minor league home runs in over 1800 plate appearances, and then evolved into a freaking cleanup hitter on powerhouse big league offenses. He was more infamous than anything from the Greek God of Walks thing, but he became so much more than any reasonable expectation could have been of him.

Edit: oh yeah he also won a Gold Glove

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

On the flip side, he hit 31 minor league home runs in over 1800 plate appearances, and then evolved into a freaking cleanup hitter on powerhouse big league offenses. He was more infamous than anything from the Greek God of Walks thing, but he became so much more than any reasonable expectation could have been of him.

Edit: oh yeah he also won a Gold Glove

Also, an interesting what-if for Youkilis had the team not transitioned him back to the wear and tear of 3B after acquiring Adrien Gonzalez and letting Beltre go.

 

[BornToRun]

I know he’s kind of an unpopular figure given some of the shit he’s said in regards to current events but 2018 Ryan Brasier came out of nowhere.

 

[Doug Branscombe]

Scott Cooper ? 2 time AS, iirc

 

[opes]

Rick Porcello. 2016. I don't think anyone expected he would play that good.