A-Rod's Legacy

[Kliq]

I was talking about this with some friends the other day; is there a player with a legacy further disconnected from their actual production than Alex Rodriguez?

Nobody likes A-Rod, for a bunch of obvious reasons. He's the punchline to a bunch of jokes, not only from Sox fans but from Yankee fans as well. He was never beloved in New York, which left him without a real home fanbase to stick up for him when everyone else shit on him. And again, rightfully so, A-Rod was/is a jerk that deserves to be mocked.

Yet as we move further away from his career and his peak as a player, his mind-blowing level of talent and production seems like it is going to be forgotten. Alex Rodriguez is one of the 5-10 most talented baseball players ever. He was basically the perfect baseball player by the time he was 20. He signed multiple record-setting deals and lived up to them. From a pure statistical perspective, he has a very strong case as being the best infielder in the history of the game.

I've noticed in recent years there has been a softening an appreciation for Barry Bonds--not forgiving Bonds the person, but an acceptance that while he used steroids, it should still be appreciated just how insanely gifted and productive he was. Will A-Rod get any of that? Or was he just too much of a prick and too easy to mock? I could see in 20 or 30 years, he has become a footnote in history, a guy that you can see in the record book, but not a lot of people will talk about watching him play.

 

[mikeford]

Bonds gets more leeway because the general belief is that he started doing roids in 98

Well his pre-1998 career was ALREADY Hall of Fame level production, basically step for step with Willie Mays at that age.

A-Rod on the other hand, essentially admitted his entire career was propped up by steroids.

 

[jon abbey]

A-Rod also came up small in clutch moments for most of his career, 2009 excepted. Joe Torre famously moved him to 8th in the batting order in an elimination game for this very reason, I thought he was correct that day and I still think so.

 

[jon abbey]

I'd say that Roger Clemens actually suffers from this post-career devaluation more than A-Rod, 139.2 bWAR to A-Rod's 117.5 and similarly undiscussed these days (although to be fair I ignore almost all historical discussions, so maybe I'm wrong).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml

 

[Steve Dillard]

Yikes. I was going to drop a Manny in there, but his WAR (108th) is pretty pedestrian for one of the best hitters ever. And how is Beltre above Boggs for career WAR - longevity?

 

[SirPsychoSquints]

Yikes. I was going to drop a Manny in there, but his WAR (108th) is pretty pedestrian for one of the best hitters ever. And how is Beltre above Boggs for career WAR - longevity?

I’ll check for real, but I assume it’s defense. Beltre was amazing.

 

[SirPsychoSquints]

I’ll check for real, but I assume it’s defense. Beltre was amazing.

https://stathead.com/tiny/NWU8Z

So first of all. 2 bWAR out of 93 isn’t really a meaningful edge.

Boggs had an OPS+ 16 points higher.

Beltre played 500 more games!

Beltre was 112 more runs better than average defensively.

Boggs had 5 more WAA, so ultimately beltre’s WAR advantage does come down to playing time.

 

[Van Everyman]

A-Rod also came up small in clutch moments for most of his career, 2009 excepted. Joe Torre famously moved him to 8th in the batting order in an elimination game for this very reason, I thought he was correct that day and I still think so.

2009 was a big steroid year for him if I recall the Biogenesis stuff correctly, yes?

If I’m being honest, A-Rod has successfully made himself into a much more likable character in retirement. I prefer him away from the booth as a color guy where he can be really irritating but he and Papi have a great schtick in the studio and none of that is anything I ever would have predicted based on how much I couldn’t stand him during his career.

 

[Seels]

My theory on Arod is that despite his talent, he was a major leaguer at 17 or 18 or whatever, and never had a chance to really grow up, so he did a bunch of stupid shit because he never had anyone tell him he's an idiot. The PEDS are the easy target, but Sox fans will never forget the Bronson Arroyo play, and then there was the Blue Jays 'I got it' play. I'm all for competition but Arod acted like a little boy for his entire career.

 

[Al Zarilla]

ARod seemed to be a regular guy and decent color man announcer for ESPN Sunday night games. He’s better with Big Papi et al on pre and post game shows during the post season (personally sorry they replaced Frank Thomas with Jeter). He’s all right with me. Not all Red Sox fans have the same opinion about ex Yankees or whatever.

 

[jon abbey]

I avoid him on TV whenever possible, but when he briefly did Yankee games, he was really really bad at it, except on the very rare occasion that there were two additional players he respected in the booth with him (both Cone and O'Neill).

Then and only then did he drop all the fake bullshit he incessantly throws out (yeah, bunting is way more important than homers, that's why you were constantly bunting as a player) and turned into a genuine, insightful human.

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

I've never really thought of ARod as a jerk, unlike Bonds (surly) and Clemens (huge asshole and possible statutory rapist).

ARod, by all accounts, wanted to be liked and so was too pretty and too polished. Combine that with postseason failures, the glove slap, etc. and he became hated. Also, leaving Seattle by saying it wasn't about the money and then signing the biggest deal ever with a horrible team didn't help.

I think all of these guys will be celebrated once all the crotchety boomers and old ass sports writers die.

 

[EvilEmpire]

I don't care for Arod, but can't generate any strong feelings about it. Too distracted by the cringe, I guess.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

I keep saying this to my friends IRL but I've really, really, really come around on Arod. I think he's a pretty goddamn great analyst and the segment of him, Pete Rose, and Frank Thomas talking about hitting is one of the best thing I've ever watched.

I dunno. The guy seems to have figured it out, post-career

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Arod is smarmy and likes to hear himself talk but he's not a bad dude. He's just not very cool and too wordy.

 

[Sandwich Pick]

As a player, I remember him exploding onto the scene in 1996 but he was kind of buried in the shadows behind Griffey/Edgar/Unit in Seattle. His best season WAR-wise (10.4) was in 2000, after Griffey was gone but Edgar/Buhner were still there. His first time as the long-term face of a franchise was in Texas, and that was as a despised villain who took the money and ran.

A co-worker of mine worked at YES Network for years so she got to know him a bit. Her assessment of him was: "Alex is Alex. He really means well. But he's like your friend who brings every conversation back to themselves and probably doesn't even realize they're doing it."

Torre's assessment of him in 'The Yankee Years' was that he could never be one of the guys because he needed to be seen as a step above everyone else.

 

[m0ckduck]

I'd say that Roger Clemens actually suffers from this post-career devaluation more than A-Rod, 139.2 bWAR to A-Rod's 117.5 and similarly undiscussed these days (although to be fair I ignore almost all historical discussions, so maybe I'm wrong).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml

It is wild with Clemens, how undervalued he is by the numbers. You can take Pedro (83.9) and then add Mariano Rivera (56.3) on top of it, and together they add up to Roger's bWAR.

 

[snowmanny]

It’s been mentioned before, but Clemens led the league in strikeouts five times and in K/9 multiple times, but his career K/9 (8.6) is lower than last year’s MLB K/9 (8.7). The player he was is like a dinosaur compared to anything we have in baseball today. Pitching is so different now.

 

[mikeford]

Arod is smarmy and likes to hear himself talk but he's not a bad dude. He's just not very cool and too wordy.

Reading this post, particularly. the bit about him not being cool, jogged my memory that at one point he dated fuckin MADONNA

How the hell did that happen

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Reading this post, particularly. the bit about him not being cool, jogged my memory that at one point he dated fuckin MADONNA

How the hell did that happen

and J-Lo, Kate Hudson, Cameron Diaz, and I think Demi Moore.