76ers: 2020-2021 thread

EvilEmpire

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I'm not a big fan or anything, but since the Knicks have been terrible for so long, I sort of adopted the Sixers as my second team. I have a lot of PA roots.

My biggest disappointment with the Sixers is that I don't think their two best players work hard enough at their craft to reach their full potential. Embiid at his conditioning and Simmons at his shot. It's frustrating to see.

I know it's trite, but as long as those two are content to be really good, I don't think they will ever be great.

I was disappointed that Butler's work ethic and professionalism didn't rub off on them. I hope Doc has better success.
 

Euclis20

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Bu definition doesn’t this agree with him and Embiid being a poor fit together?
Yes, I just mean to emphasize the point that Simmons is the reason for the poor fit, not Embiid. Embiid would be a good fit with most perimeter stars, while Simmons would fit well with a much smaller group.
 

lovegtm

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Woof. I'm a Simmons fan, but that's 2 years of stalled development in one video.

They really need to move him for Beal, or both he and Embiid will waste their primes.
 

Silverdude2167

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So what about Kemba for Simmons?
Put Simmons with the Jays and I feel like they all compliment each other really well and Kemba on the 76ers is probably a better fit as well.

Feel free to laugh at the idea.
 

terrynever

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I'm not a big fan or anything, but since the Knicks have been terrible for so long, I sort of adopted the Sixers as my second team. I have a lot of PA roots.

My biggest disappointment with the Sixers is that I don't think their two best players work hard enough at their craft to reach their full potential. Embiid at his conditioning and Simmons at his shot. It's frustrating to see.

I know it's trite, but as long as those two are content to be really good, I don't think they will ever be great.

I was disappointed that Butler's work ethic and professionalism didn't rub off on them. I hope Doc has better success.
Embiid is In the best shape of his career this season, according to people who report on the team. His back flares up from time to time, something Doc is closely monitoring.
He played 39 minutes the other night while scoring 45 points, while collecting 16 rebounds in an OT victory over Miami. He scored 20 points on 8-for-8 shooting in the third quarter, and made all 13 of his free throws in the game. Joel drained a 20-footbjumper to tie the game with 20 seconds to go.
Your observation of Embiid’s conditioning is not valid this season. And he loves playing for Doc. His other deficiency, those immaturity issues, seem to have vanished now that he is playing for a former NBA player. Doc keeps a tighter rein on these guys than Brett Brown did.
 
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lovegtm

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So what about Kemba for Simmons?
Put Simmons with the Jays and I feel like they all compliment each other really well and Kemba on the 76ers is probably a better fit as well.

Feel free to laugh at the idea.
Lol, the Sixers aren't giving up Simmons for the remains of Kemba's knee. That deal is incredibly lopsided for the Celtics, and would give the best non-insane 3-man core in the league.
 

Silverdude2167

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Lol, the Sixers aren't giving up Simmons for the remains of Kemba's knee. That deal is incredibly lopsided for the Celtics, and would give the best non-insane 3-man core in the league.
Yeah, that is all probably true. But moving past the fact the trade would never happen and assume Kemba is healthy would the Sixers be better with him than Simmons?
 

terrynever

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Woof. I'm a Simmons fan, but that's 2 years of stalled development in one video.

They really need to move him for Beal, or both he and Embiid will waste their primes.
I won’t defend or try to rationalize Ben’s performance on Tuesday when he took three shots all night. 76ers were shorthanded due to COVID. It was the perfect time to take 20 shots and lighten the load on Embiid.
In this video, though, Ben is on the floor with the second team, with two guys playing who are 14th and 15th on the roster. They never played until COVID took five players off the roster. On this video, Miami just collapsed into a zone and packed the paint in front of Simmons. Mike Scott is open in the corner but any pass his way would be stolen. Dwight Howard is moving up to the high post. The other two guys are not open.
Doc wants Ben to drive aggressively to the hoop and either finish or kick it out to an open shooter. Miami knew this and fell back, the classic D against a guy who won’t shoot. Ben should have shot a jumper but we know, as did Miami, that this is unlikely. This is a problem for Philly.
And since sports is not just about what’s happening on the court, maybe Ben had other issues. His agent was informed on Tuesday afternoon that a deal to Houston was getting close. No doubt Ben was informed. When the deal fell through on Wednesday, Ben spoke of how much he loves it in Philly. I would suggest Simmons’ head might not have been in a good place on Tuesday, knowing this might be his last game in Philly, and going to Houston would send him to a team that has been torn apart over the past year.
Look, we all know Simmons is reluctant to shoot. Doc has told him he doesn’t care. Just be aggressive with the ball, push the tempo, play defense and rebound. Do what you do best.
Philly might trade for one more shooter but the Sixers will dance with who brung them, to quote Darrell Royal a long time ago. They have more shooters now. Ben has the freedom to do his thing. To judge him on one play, with the second team, is just another example of Ben being the whipping boy of hoop purists everywhere.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yeah, that is all probably true. But moving past the fact the trade would never happen and assume Kemba is healthy would the Sixers be better with him than Simmons?
I actually don't think the 76ers as presently constituted would be better with Kemba because they would have a lot of non-defenders - Kemba, Curry, Harris, Milton, etc.

BOS, however, would be insane and I'd think they would win multiple championships. Would love watching Jays, Marcus, and Ben play defense in the 4Q.
 

EvilEmpire

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Embiid is In the best shape of his career this season, according to people who report on the team. His back flares up from time to time, something Doc is closely monitoring.
He played 39 minutes the other night while scoring 45 points, while collecting 16 rebounds in an OT victory over Miami. He scored 20 points on 8-for-8 shooting in the third quarter, and made all 13 of his free throws in the game. Joel drained a 20-footbjumper to tie the game with 20 seconds to go.
Your observation of Embiid’s conditioning is not valid this season. And he loves playing for Doc. His other deficiency, those immaturity issues, seem to have vanished now that he is playing for a former NBA player. Doc keeps a tighter rein on these guys than Brett Brown did.
It was a general observation from the last few seasons. Being on the west coast, I don't often get a chance to see them play and haven't so far this season. I'm glad to hear Embiid's conditioning is better.

Like I said, I was hoping that Doc could make an impact. It would be great if this newfound committment is permanent.
 

Cesar Crespo

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So what about Kemba for Simmons?
Put Simmons with the Jays and I feel like they all compliment each other really well and Kemba on the 76ers is probably a better fit as well.

Feel free to laugh at the idea.
Putting aside the fact the 76ers would never make this trade... Ben Simmons would look awesome as the Celtics point center and the C's defense would be insane. A line up of Simmons/Tatum/Jaylen/Smart/PP almost looks like a lineup that was build around Ben Simmons, and it's a lineup that would have some pretty good ball movement.

That's 3 top 20 players under the age of 25. That's a core that would win multiple champions. With Tatum/Brown/Simmons as your core, the other players basically just need a pulse and a 3 point shot.

Really, has there ever been 3 players under the age of 25 on the same team better? Maybe OKC, I'd have to look with Durant, Westbrook and Harden. But Harden also wasn't getting big minutes.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Woof. I'm a Simmons fan, but that's 2 years of stalled development in one video.

They really need to move him for Beal, or both he and Embiid will waste their primes.
Yeah, been saying or thinking that for awhile. It would leave Philly without a PG though. I don't think a Simmons/Westbrook duo would be very good, although I'm not sure an Embiid/Westbrook duo would be either but maybe.

Simmons and Harris for Beal and Westbrook would work. Although I think Philly would probably be better off with Harris's shooting. Probably be better just to get a PG elsewhere really. So Beal for Simmons.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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So Beal for Simmons.
Can you imagine Simmons and Westbrook together on the floor? We might see a modern record for defensive three seconds violations by their opponents, there would be so little reason to defend anywhere more than five feet from the basket. You’d need the rest of the roster to be knockdown shooters to make the spacing work.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Can you imagine Simmons and Westbrook together on the floor? We might see a modern record for defensive three seconds violations by their opponents, there would be so little reason to defend anywhere more than five feet from the basket. You’d need the rest of the roster to be knockdown shooters to make the spacing work.
The spacing and the fact a lot of their skill sets overlap each other. I can't think of a worse paring really. Maybe Ben Simmons and John Wall or John Wall and Russell Westbrook.
 

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Wouldnt Ben on the Celtics (Fantasy I know) basically be "Elon Musk Version of Theis without the ludicrous fouls"?
 

Euclis20

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Simmons for Kemba is obviously pretty lopsided (in the Celtics' favor) but a Kemba-like player would be a good swap for Philly. Lillard, something like that(not a serious suggestion).

Embiid is In the best shape of his career this season, according to people who report on the team. His back flares up from time to time, something Doc is closely monitoring.
He played 39 minutes the other night while scoring 45 points, while collecting 16 rebounds in an OT victory over Miami. He scored 20 points on 8-for-8 shooting in the third quarter, and made all 13 of his free throws in the game. Joel drained a 20-footbjumper to tie the game with 20 seconds to go.
Your observation of Embiid’s conditioning is not valid this season. And he loves playing for Doc. His other deficiency, those immaturity issues, seem to have vanished now that he is playing for a former NBA player. Doc keeps a tighter rein on these guys than Brett Brown did.
Not that you're wrong, but two quick notes:

-People say this every year (About tons of players), it doesn't make it true.
-his conditioning will be tested by year end, not by game 10.
 

terrynever

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Simmons for Kemba is obviously pretty lopsided (in the Celtics' favor) but a Kemba-like player would be a good swap for Philly. Lillard, something like that(not a serious suggestion).



Not that you're wrong, but two quick notes:

-People say this every year (About tons of players), it doesn't make it true.
-his conditioning will be tested by year end, not by game 10.
Thanks for pointing that out to me.

I am talking about his conditioning right now. Who knows what will happen later on? If Embiid gets hurt and sits out a few weeks and comes back having gained 10 pounds, which he did last year, then his conditioning will not be good. But right now, it’s good. That is a positive development in the often wacky 76ers climate.
 
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DannyDarwinism

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It’s pretty annoying to see four years of my late round draft binkies playing well for the Sixers. I need the Celtics back in action so PP can take the pain away.
 

terrynever

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It’s pretty annoying to see four years of my late round draft binkies playing well for the Sixers. I need the Celtics back in action so PP can take the pain away.
COVID shines a different light on things. The interlude this past week allowed Doc to get an early look at Isaiah Joe, 2nd rounder out of Arkansas, 6-4 and 165 pounds, who is a shooter from long range. Shooting 37 percent from deep, 15-for-41. Doc also likes his defense. Joe would have remained glued to the bench in normal times but he is now at the least a trade chip.

76ers’ two games with Miami this week looked like preseason contests as Butler and Bam sat, as did Dragic. Chalk ‘em up as wins.

Celtics visit Philly on the 20th and 22nd next week. With luck, both teams will play at full strength.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Superstardom obviously could have different meanings, just using it as short hand for top 5-10 player, perennial 1st/2nd team all nba, at least occasional MVP talk.

This seemed to be Simmons’ trajectory after his first year, now we’re taking about him as a good defender and complementary piece.

The Sixers can still be good with this version of Simmons, but his career to this point has been atypical and disappointing.
I mean, you speak about Simmons as if he’s Trevor Ariza. ;)

if Simmons continues his “atypical and disappointing” career for another decade he will be a HOFer. I agree that his approach to the game is what’s holding him back but we saw this at LSU too and was one of the criticisms against him. He definitely has a higher ceiling that he doesn’t appear very interested in reaching but Simmons is carrying that baggage of having such high expectations.

Can we get him? He’d be ideal in the Smart role.
 

radsoxfan

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I mean, you speak about Simmons as if he’s Trevor Ariza. ;)

if Simmons continues his “atypical and disappointing” career for another decade he will be a HOFer. I agree that his approach to the game is what’s holding him back but we saw this at LSU too and was one of the criticisms against him. He definitely has a higher ceiling that he doesn’t appear very interested in reaching but Simmons is carrying that baggage of having such high expectations.

Can we get him? He’d be ideal in the Smart role.
Maybe Trevor Ariza with a broken shot :) In all seriousness he's clearly better than Ariza and his defensive value is definitely still extremely high.

But I'm talking about the guy in the range of the 20-25th best player in the NBA right now. Do people have serious disagreement with that?

If you asked me 3 years ago where Simmons would be in year 4, I would have guessed much better than that.

I'm not an NBA Hall of Fame expert by any means, but if he doesn't improve at all from this point he doesn't scream Hall of Fame to me.
 

Cellar-Door

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Simmons is weird in that his first 2 years make you think.... "oh this guy is going to be great", but his last 2 make you think.... "is this guy not only not getting better, could he be getting worse?", I don't think he is, but things like the clip of him getting Kelly Olynyk on a switch and Kelly just straight up refusing to guard him outside the paint make me think something needs to change or he's gonna be a 14-8-6 guy, and even with great D that isn't a Hall of Famer.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Ringer piece by Jonathan Tjarks on the continued mismatch of Embiid and Simmons:
Tjarks notes that Simmons lack of shooting isn’t just from 3, it’s basically everywhere that’s not directly under the basket:
The focus on Simmons’s refusal to shoot 3s misses the bigger point. Simmons attempted one 3 on Thursday, and already has hoisted almost half as many (three) as he did all of last season. The more glaring issue is that he struggles to score from anywhere outside of 3 feet from the basket. Simmons is shooting 33.3 percent between 3 and 10 feet and zero percent between 10 feet and the 3-point line. That trend goes back to his rookie season.
Playing in the paint opens up kick-outs to shooters, which may or may not be there when defenses change up game plans in the playoffs:
There are two long-term problems with that approach. The first is that most defenders naturally help when the ball gets into the paint. Look at how often the Heat players leave shooters to double Simmons in that last clip. That will be cleaned up as defenses lock in on their opponents in the playoffs.
More interestingly, it continues to not be a good fit with Embiid:
The second problem is that there’s still no great answer for how to utilize Simmons when Embiid has the ball. The center has been playing at an MVP level this season, averaging 25 points on 53.6 percent shooting, 11.5 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.4 steals, and 1.5 blocks per game. Simmons can’t feed Embiid in the post or play with him in the pick-and-roll since defenses will just sag off him. He’s in just the 13th percentile of scorers leaguewide as a ball handler in the pick-and-roll. There are plenty of examples in each game when the lack of synergy between the Sixers’ two stars is clear.
Tjarks proposes the best use of Simmons would be as a playmaking small ball center, basically the role Miami found for Bam, but that doesn’t work with Embiid playing center at the same time:
But Simmons can’t be a point center when he’s playing next to one of the NBA’s best centers in Embiid. The logic of trading Simmons for Harden was sound. Breaking up Simmons and Embiid could unlock better versions of each player. That’s why Morey pursued the deal so aggressively despite spending his first few months in Philly saying that he wouldn’t.

Simmons has not fundamentally changed as a player in four seasons in the league. There’s no guarantee that he ever will. The best chance of getting more out of him is putting him in a different role with different players around him. That just can’t happen in Philadelphia.
 

Tony C

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Tjarks proposes the best use of Simmons would be as a playmaking small ball center, basically the role Miami found for Bam, but that doesn’t work with Embiid playing center at the same time:
That sure does make sense and is why I don't think I was the only one wondering how Simmons might fit in precisely that role if they traded him to a club with the right personnel. Of course, Morey is the GM who'd probably be most apt to risk that...but not with Embiid on the roster.
 

terrynever

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Can’t believe that Ring hoops writer is providing analysis from last night’s scrimmage between Philly and Miami.

After seven games this season, against an easy schedule, the Sixers with Simmons and Embiid on the floor together were at plus-19.5 points per 100 possessions, according to basketball-reference.com. Compare that to last year when the duo was just at plus-0.8 points per 100 possessions. (Excerpted from Philly Inquirer. Starting lineup edge is down to 15.3 now.)

I’m waiting until after the two Boston games next week to comment on Simmons. I watch whole games on most nights, not video clips of a player’s worst plays. When the 76ers are running, and with Embiid in good shape he is getting down the floor more often, he and Simmons can be devastating. Yes, the game slows down in the playoffs, and that’s where the shooters come in. Curry, Green, Harris, Shake Milton, Maxey and perhaps even Isaiah Joe. Those last two are pleasant surprises. And rookies, who tend to not play much in the playoffs.

Let’s chat when the games get real again.
 

BigSoxFan

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That sure does make sense and is why I don't think I was the only one wondering how Simmons might fit in precisely that role if they traded him to a club with the right personnel. Of course, Morey is the GM who'd probably be most apt to risk that...but not with Embiid on the roster.
I'll throw out a team. Atlanta. I think Simmons would thrive as a small ball center surrounded by a team deep with wings like Hunter, Huerter, Reddish, Bogdanovic, Gallinari, etc. On any team built around Simmons, you would need at least another secondary ball handler who can slash and take pressure off of Simmons when the game slows down.

I'd also like him in the Draymond Green role on the Warriors.
 

GreenMonster49

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Tacko Fall has as many made field goals taken more than 10 feet from the rim thIs season as Ben Simmons does. (1 each)
 

radsoxfan

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If you took the under on SImmons' points in every game so far this year you would be very wealthy.

The over has hit once so far.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Lol is that shot as short as it looks on my phone? Big yikes.

From the box score it looks like Bane and Tillman had nice games. Tillman took 5 threes (hit one) which I did not see happening this early in his career. A credible three threat would be huge for him. Bane’s shooting 49% from three on 3.6 attempts/game.

I don’t think I’ll ever not be annoyed at punting that #30 pick with them on the board.
 

chilidawg

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Lol is that shot as short as it looks on my phone? Big yikes.

From the box score it looks like Bane and Tillman had nice games. Tillman took 5 threes (hit one) which I did not see happening this early in his career. A credible three threat would be huge for him. Bane’s shooting 49% from three on 3.6 attempts/game.

I don’t think I’ll ever not be annoyed at punting that #30 pick with them on the board.
Yeah SS hindsight, keeping Kanter over acquiring Thompson and adding Bane looks pretty good.
 

terrynever

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Simmons had another tentative game on offense but his steal of an unsuspecting Theis sealed the win.
Shake Milton is a pure scorer off the bench who will be even more important when Seth Curry returns.
Embiid’s conditioning seemed good tonight.
If the refs want to send him to the line when he overpowers hopeless defenders, that’s the NBA. Nobody on Boston can guard him. You gotta run bodies at him, which is why Time Lord could have been helpful tonight.
This win means nothing. But the second game of these two-game COVID series have been a better test so far for Philly this season. Tatum and Curry should both be back by Friday night.
 
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terrynever

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Seth Curry should be back tonight in limited minutes. Another shooter for Embiid to find.

Rising star Shake Milton has quietly turned into a young Lou Williams, only bigger. Milton already being mentioned for best Sixth Man consideration. 16.8 ppg. Creates his own shot and finishes.

 
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BigSoxFan

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Seth Curry should be back tonight in limited minutes. Another shooter for Embiid to find.

Rising star Shake Milton has quietly turned into a young Lou Williams, only bigger. Milton already being mentioned for best Sixth Man consideration. 16.8 ppg. Creates his own shot and finishes.

Your recent SMU 2nd round draft pick is better than our recent SMU 2nd round draft pick :(

Milton has really improved. He's a real asset for Philly now.
 

terrynever

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Your recent SMU 2nd round draft pick is better than our recent SMU 2nd round draft pick :(

Milton has really improved. He's a real asset for Philly now.
Doc has a knack for utilizing the 6th Man role. Shake is playing free and easy this year, just maturing and getting better. He still has to do it in big games and in the playoffs.
 

terrynever

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Last night’s game means little. It’s like Boston beating Philly without Embiid. That’s how much Tatum means to the Celtics.

Looking inward, some good things happened for Philly. Harris continues to play well now that Horford isn’t clogging up the lane. Curry came back and picked up where he left off. Simmons seemingly remembered how to finish drives in the fourth quarter.

Embiid was Embiid.
 

benhogan

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Last night’s game means little. It’s like Boston beating Philly without Embiid. That’s how much Tatum means to the Celtics.

Looking inward, some good things happened for Philly. Harris continues to play well now that Horford isn’t clogging up the lane. Curry came back and picked up where he left off. Simmons seemingly remembered how to finish drives in the fourth quarter.

Embiid was Embiid.
The Celtics double BIG (Theis & TT) + Kemba lineup in Q4 was catnip for Simmons.

Tristan Thompson is an absolute ZERO. He gets an F in the one role he was brought in to do, which was playing defense against the bulkier 5s. Embiid with two ridiculously efficient games against the Celtics.

The Celtics, ex-Tatum, is a sub .500 NBA team. Top 10 players mean that much.

Surrounding Ben/Embiid with shooting was a good idea.
and predictable that Dwight Howard breaks our shiny new PG
 
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lovegtm

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The Celtics double BIG (Theis & TT) + Kemba lineup in Q4 was catnip for Simmons.

Tristan Thompson is an absolute ZERO. He gets an F in the one role he was brought in to do, which was playing defense against the bulkier 5s. Embiid with two ridiculously efficient games against the Celtics.

The Celtics, ex-Tatum, is a sub .500 NBA team. Top 10 players mean that much.

Surrounding Ben/Embiid with shooting was a good idea.
and predictable that Dwight Howard breaks our shiny new PG
Lol the Celtics are not a sub-500 team without Tatum. People need to chill.

This team hasn’t played real defense all year, Tatum or no Tatum. They absolutely have the personnel to be elite defensively, and simply haven’t been close to doing so.

Everyone likes to look at scheme and players, when a lot of the time the adjustment is “do the same stuff, but well.”
 

terrynever

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Celtics were sloppy with the dribble last night. Simmons and Thybulle both have long arms and were able to poke the ball free from behind. Thybulle had his best game of the season, as did Harris. Simmons got pretty frisky on offense once the game had been decided. He finally finished on drives instead of dishing off.

Philly may not add anything at the trade deadline but Boston needs to deepen its bench and has they money to do it. The bench was exposed last night because Tatum was out and Pritchard got hurt. Howard boxed out Jaylen, who fell on Pritch. Howard is very physical, it goes without saying. His 11 rebounds and two blocks were big on a night when Embiid got into foul trouble early. He’s the best backup center Philly has had since Embiid arrived.

Boston had a temporary answer to its big man problem last night when Theis and Williams were on the court together. Celts need to find a way to guard Embiid now that Philly has shooters around the big guy. These are not last year’s Sixers.