2023 Ryder Cup - When in Rome...
- Thread starter crackerjack9
- Start date
It's finally Ryder Cup Week!!!!!!!! All times are EST
Here is the schedule for the week
Thursday--Opening Ceremonies 10 am-1pm EST Golf Channel
Friday and Saturday Morning Foursomes: 1:35 AM, 1:50 AM, 2:05 am, 2:20 am
Friday and Saturday Afternoon Four-ball: 6:25 AM, 6:40 AM, 6:55 AM, 7:10 AM
Sunday Singles: Match 1 is 5:35 AM, matches go off every 12 minutes
TV schedule
Friday all on USA
Saturday 1:30 am-3:00 am USA, 3-12 noon on NBC
Sunday 5:30 am NBC
Streaming options: Peacock, RyderCup.com, and the Ryder Cup app.
Here is the schedule for the week
Thursday--Opening Ceremonies 10 am-1pm EST Golf Channel
Friday and Saturday Morning Foursomes: 1:35 AM, 1:50 AM, 2:05 am, 2:20 am
Friday and Saturday Afternoon Four-ball: 6:25 AM, 6:40 AM, 6:55 AM, 7:10 AM
Sunday Singles: Match 1 is 5:35 AM, matches go off every 12 minutes
TV schedule
Friday all on USA
Saturday 1:30 am-3:00 am USA, 3-12 noon on NBC
Sunday 5:30 am NBC
Streaming options: Peacock, RyderCup.com, and the Ryder Cup app.
Probably will be a DVR situation. The coverage will be so bad that even for a die hard sicko like me it's not worth waking up early/staying up late for. Maybe on Saturday.
A little surprised the Euro's elected to start with fourball. Traditionally the US is stronger at fourball than foursomes, although when they are on Euro soil the US distributes the sucking over all formats.
It's probably not great that our #1 player still can't figure out how to make a putt.
https://x.com/ToddLewisGC/status/1706328982235283637?s=20
A little surprised the Euro's elected to start with fourball. Traditionally the US is stronger at fourball than foursomes, although when they are on Euro soil the US distributes the sucking over all formats.
It's probably not great that our #1 player still can't figure out how to make a putt.
https://x.com/ToddLewisGC/status/1706328982235283637?s=20
The killer was the short birdie miss for Korda on 16. If she had made that to halve the hole, she would have been one down playing 18 instead of done after 17.
Lexi played great considering how awful her season was. Nelly has a case of the Schefflers. I thought it was a great competition. The women are phenomenal on both sides, and likable on both sides, at least this year. I’ll be interested to see how much I enjoy the Ryder Cup comparatively, because the giant men’s golf money grab has soured my taste for some of these guys. It was kind of cool watching Solheim and hoping the US won, but maybe more just hoping it was great golf and that all of the ladies played well on both sides.
It's kind of hard to figure out the pairings but I'd bet a lot on these 3 at least playing in foursomes
Xander/Cantlay
JT/Spieth
Scheffler/Burns
Xander/Cantlay and JT/Spieth are foursome anchors across multiple Ryder and Presidents Cup. Scheffler/Burns didn't have a good record at the PC last year but played lights out (Burns in particular) and just ran into a buzzsaw a couple of times. For the last group, I kind of like Max/Morikawa. Two good ball strikers, set it up so Max is putting first as much as possible (haven't looked at the layout yet to figure out odds/evens).
Fourball...who knows. Last time around they split up Xander/Cantlay and JT/Spieth. Xander played with DJ, Cantlay with JT and Spieth went out with Brooks.
Xander/Cantlay
JT/Spieth
Scheffler/Burns
Xander/Cantlay and JT/Spieth are foursome anchors across multiple Ryder and Presidents Cup. Scheffler/Burns didn't have a good record at the PC last year but played lights out (Burns in particular) and just ran into a buzzsaw a couple of times. For the last group, I kind of like Max/Morikawa. Two good ball strikers, set it up so Max is putting first as much as possible (haven't looked at the layout yet to figure out odds/evens).
Fourball...who knows. Last time around they split up Xander/Cantlay and JT/Spieth. Xander played with DJ, Cantlay with JT and Spieth went out with Brooks.
Dumb question, but in alternate shot, is it truly alternate shot? As in, A tees off, B hits the approach, A takes the lag putt, B putts it in the hole? OR is it A tees off, B hits the approach, and A takes all the putts, no matter how many it takes? Because that chart above makes it look like the latter.
True alternate shot. He just stopped the chart after the birdie try since that's the scoring opportunity but it would continue alternating until holed out.
“Freddie Couples doing a walk-and-talk with John Wood on GC says Xander + Cantlay and Spieth + Thomas are "probably going to play four matches. That's not spilling the beans."
https://x.com/brendanporath/status/1706713329924722853?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
https://x.com/brendanporath/status/1706713329924722853?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
Alternate shot except the tee shots.
The same player always tees off on the odd numbered holes, and the other on the even numbered holes. So even if a guy holes out on the previous hole, if the next hole is even and he's the even hole tee guy, he still tees off on the next hole.
There's an interesting sidenote to this issue. The "one ball rule" is not in effect for this tournament. For those not familiar, this is the rule that requires players/teams to play one ball (manufacturer, specs) for the entire round. Without this rule in play, players can now switch the ball each hole. Johnson has discussed and said he will let each pairing work this out but would typically use the ball of the player likely to be hitting approach shots. I suspect this could actually make a big difference.
For those who aren't familiar with the rule, there was an interesting situation on the Korn Ferry Tour where a player accidentally used and older version of a Titleist ball and didn't have any others of that particular ball in his bag. Here's a link to some interesting reading.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/ryan-mccormick-korn-ferry-tour-pro-v1-one-ball-rule-near-dq-rules
This has come up in the Ryder Cup before. In 2004 Phil and Tiger were paired together for foursomes. As Phil tells it, they found out about the pairing 2-days before the event. Tiger and Phil played completely different golf balls (Tiger high spin; Phil low spin) and obviously 2004 Tiger wasn't using somebody elses ball. So, Phil says he had 2 days to try and learn Tiger's ball and it basically consumed his entire prep for the week. They lost 2 & 1 to Monty and Padraig.
https://golf.com/news/phil-mickelson-on-why-2004-ryder-cup-pairing-with-tiger-woods-was-such-a-disaster/
Similar story with Fitzpatrick and Westwood. You would think it cancels out but who knows?
We had our Ryder Cup at our club last weekend (annual member/member, 36 holes on Saturday, best ball and then alternate shot and then singles the 2nd day). We've never used the "one ball rule" for the entire round, whoever teed off a hole, that's the ball that was used on the hole. But because the course was so wet, we were playing lift/clean/place in the fairways, and the pro shop told us we could switch out balls during that process in the fairway which was really good (I play AVX's, while my partner likes PV1X's).
Seven of my buddies and I did this last summer - four on four, Ryder Cup style. So obviously a much smaller version. Four vs. Four. Three rounds, all in one day.
Alternate Shot (2 v. 2)
Best Ball (2 v. 2)
Singles match (1 v. 1)
It was so fun. The alternate shot was extremely challenging though.
The Ryder Cup is the best. And I'm very nervous about this particular contest.
Alternate Shot (2 v. 2)
Best Ball (2 v. 2)
Singles match (1 v. 1)
It was so fun. The alternate shot was extremely challenging though.
The Ryder Cup is the best. And I'm very nervous about this particular contest.
I'm not too optimistic but that is mostly because every trip over the pond has been a shit show for the past 30 years for the US. I just kind of expect that for the US the worst case scenario will come true.
1997: 14.5-13.5 @ Valderama (down 10.5-5.5 after team play)
2002: 15.5-12.5 @ The Belfry
2006: 18.5-9.5 @ K Club
2010: 14.5-13.5 @ Celtic Manor (down 10-6 after team play)
2014: 16.5-11.5 @ Gleneagles
2018: 17.5-10.5 @ Le Golf National
They just get stomped in Europe and haven't really been in it. They've had a few Sunday charges to make the scores look better but by and large when they go to Europe it's an unmitigated disaster.
A couple of things that could lead to better results now.
1997: 14.5-13.5 @ Valderama (down 10.5-5.5 after team play)
2002: 15.5-12.5 @ The Belfry
2006: 18.5-9.5 @ K Club
2010: 14.5-13.5 @ Celtic Manor (down 10-6 after team play)
2014: 16.5-11.5 @ Gleneagles
2018: 17.5-10.5 @ Le Golf National
They just get stomped in Europe and haven't really been in it. They've had a few Sunday charges to make the scores look better but by and large when they go to Europe it's an unmitigated disaster.
A couple of things that could lead to better results now.
- Tiger and Phil are gone. I don't blame either for the team failures but I think their stardom and what not had a negative impact on the overall team. They draw a lot of attention and were difficult to pair players with.
- The unlikeable, tough to integrate into a team room, dudes are gone. No Patrick Reed or Bryson DeChambeau.
- They seem to have figured out team chemistry to some degree. I think in the past they fell into the trap of "let's pick the 12 best players and figure it out from there" for many years. Good on paper but also not necessarily the best way to build a team. They have started to involve the players in the captain's pick process which is a good thing. The idea is not to have 12 players, 12 cabs. At Le Golf National the captain's picks were Tiger, Phil, Bryson and Finau. Can't really second guess any of them on merit but I think they also got boxed in.
- They have leaned into analytics. They look at the data to figure out pairings instead of just pulling names out of a hat or going on a hunch.
- As a result, the leadership has had better communication to the players. There is a core group of players and those guys are involved in the process. They know in advance who they are playing with and when they are playing plus any contingencies.
The Europe shit has already started. Vik acing a par 4 today:
https://twitter.com/RyderCupEurope/status/1707358471589400710?s=20
https://twitter.com/RyderCupEurope/status/1707358471589400710?s=20
Last edited:
If you change the x to twitter in the link it will post here.
View: https://twitter.com/RyderCupEurope/status/1707358471589400710?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/RyderCupEurope/status/1707358471589400710?s=20
Still didn't get it to work...alas.
I had the format wrong, apparently foursomes is first. I always thought Europe went with foursomes first and this year they were going fourball first but apparently I had it flipped. My guess on the US side, atleast in terms of the 8 who will play:
Cantlay/Xander
JT/Spieth
Scheffler/Burns
Morikawa/Max
Not sure the order. Would think they send out Cantlay/Xander first since they've been the US best team over a couple of these things but they also may try and hide them to try and get a favorable matchup. Ideally you want the US best teams against Europe's worst and vice versa and hope the US depth can hold their own against the Euro guns while the top US players feast on the depth players for Europ.
I had the format wrong, apparently foursomes is first. I always thought Europe went with foursomes first and this year they were going fourball first but apparently I had it flipped. My guess on the US side, atleast in terms of the 8 who will play:
Cantlay/Xander
JT/Spieth
Scheffler/Burns
Morikawa/Max
Not sure the order. Would think they send out Cantlay/Xander first since they've been the US best team over a couple of these things but they also may try and hide them to try and get a favorable matchup. Ideally you want the US best teams against Europe's worst and vice versa and hope the US depth can hold their own against the Euro guns while the top US players feast on the depth players for Europ.
Pairings are being announced.
Match 1
Scottie Scheffler/Sam Burns vs. Jon Rahm/Tyrell Hatton
Match 2
Max Homa/Brian Harman vs. Viktor Hovland/Ludvig Aberg
Match 3
Rickie Fowler/Colin Morikawa vs. Shane Lowry/Sepp Straka
Match 4
Xander Schauffele/Patrick Cantlay vs. Rory McIlroy/Tommy Fleetwood
I'm not sure I see a clear advantage for either team in any of them. They should all be very competitive matches. Very surprised with no JT/Spieth or Koepka. No Rose/Fitzpatrick/MacIntyre for Europe.
Match 1
Scottie Scheffler/Sam Burns vs. Jon Rahm/Tyrell Hatton
Match 2
Max Homa/Brian Harman vs. Viktor Hovland/Ludvig Aberg
Match 3
Rickie Fowler/Colin Morikawa vs. Shane Lowry/Sepp Straka
Match 4
Xander Schauffele/Patrick Cantlay vs. Rory McIlroy/Tommy Fleetwood
I'm not sure I see a clear advantage for either team in any of them. They should all be very competitive matches. Very surprised with no JT/Spieth or Koepka. No Rose/Fitzpatrick/MacIntyre for Europe.
Last edited:
Koepka feels like a weird one to pair up in foursomes. I think he gets along with the guys just fine but he's also kind of just beats to his own drum a bit and being on LIV isn't around them all that much. I think he's probably best used playing his own ball in fourball.
JT/Spieth sitting does surprise me. I would've bet a lot on them playing foursomes together. If they are worried about JT, conventional wisdom is that it is easier to hide an out of form player in foursomes. They are also what we thought was an anchor pair so you'd think they'd be out there together for the first session. Maybe ZJ is trying to keep Donald guessing here. They think X will happen so we'll do Y...
JT/Spieth sitting does surprise me. I would've bet a lot on them playing foursomes together. If they are worried about JT, conventional wisdom is that it is easier to hide an out of form player in foursomes. They are also what we thought was an anchor pair so you'd think they'd be out there together for the first session. Maybe ZJ is trying to keep Donald guessing here. They think X will happen so we'll do Y...
Maybe they're sitting so they can play in the 3 remaining matches. I would have sent Koepka out first.
Not even a 3.
I have a similar story in that I jarred one on a pretty famous par 3 in a practice round for an invitational. My second ball. I still don't have a hole in one.
In college I made an ace on a mulligan. My buddy dead panned best 3 I’ve ever seen without missing a beat.
Made a real ace about 6 months later, playing with the same guy.
Made a real ace about 6 months later, playing with the same guy.
One of my college teammates told me about a high-level amateur match play event he knew of in California in which one guy hit his tee shot into the woods on a par 3 and played a provisional ball. He hit the provisional ball into the hole...and as soon as it went in, both he and his opponent started sprinting, him toward the hole and his opponent toward the woods. They both knew the rule (which was certainly in effect at the time; I don't know if it still is) that if the original ball was found before the provisional ball was taken out of the hole, the original ball would be in play, period. He got to the hole before his opponent found the ball, and so he was able to claim his par.
Just got home and turned it on (after seeing a great bluegrass band). Started earlier than I thought.
I think it was at The Open the broadcast put a counter on him and it was double digits... it's unbearable.
It was The Open and they did put a counter. And it's looking like it's worse at the Ryder Cup.
Also, pathetic start for the US. Cantlay just got booed.
It's awful. So you're right to be confused.
The matches are listed in order, that is the 1, 2, 3, and 4 on the left. Then the number on the right is the hole they are on. In the middle, it shows who is winning.
But it looked like Scheffler and Burns were down 4 holes after the 4th hole, etc It is confusing.
Ok - I feel a little better. I’ve watched the Ryder Cup in earnest for about 30 years so I feel like I know how it works. Ugh.