2023 PGA Tour

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,875
306, row 14
Never understood why they go to the drop zone. At least if you re-tee you're hitting the same shot you just hit.
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,169
Arvada, Co
Ridiculous:


Also, Twitter video in bizarre brain damaged upright camera mode with the edges of the TV feed cut off is brutal.
Last summer I watched 3 guys in a row do that on 4. They were terrible golfers and only 1 guy actually hit one on the green (after dunking a couple first). The others just dropped where he was. I warned them it could happen and then all 3 did it anyway. At least they were good guys and just enjoying the experience so they thought it was pretty funny.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,875
306, row 14
Not a bad 13 months for Scottie. His wins are not cheapies

WM Phoenix Open
API
Match Play
Masters
WM Phoenix Open
The Players
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2004
13,222
The Paris of the 80s
It's a few years out but plan to stockpile golf balls. The USGA will insist the changes only impact the pros or whatever but you just know the future ball will be worse than what is currently available.

And get ready for $2000 drivers when the manufacturers all have to bring in a team of NASA engineers to find a way to maximize distance under the whatever the USGA does to wreck the ball.

The tour and manufacturers really need to get together and just put out their own rules. Why they're still beholden to these self-appointed rules creators is baffling.
 

voidfunkt

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 14, 2006
1,498
/dev/null
The tour and manufacturers really need to get together and just put out their own rules. Why they're still beholden to these self-appointed rules creators is baffling.
I've gotten the impression from various interviews some (many?) of the tour players are in favor of dialing the ball in moreso than say reworking or limiting clubs. Tigers definitely been vocal about this in the past.

The pros already play with a bunch of weird and quirky compliant but different balls like the various ProV1 dash/star combinations I dont see this being terribly different.
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,411
Why they're still beholden to these self-appointed rules creators is baffling.
They're more than welcome to make their own rules and clubs. However, the "self-appointed rules creators" have both been around longer than the PGA Tour and OEMs, put on 50% of the major championship tournaments (plus the hundreds of qualifying events) and run the majority of the nationwide amateur events as well. If the Tour ignores this, they'll even further diminish their product in comparison to the majors.

Also - these changes won't affect any of us mortals here, minus a couple of you big hitters (looking at you, @Gunca and @FL4WL3SS). And only if they choose to play in competitions which require them. Titleist will just make another tour version of the ball like the left dash or left dot for competition sake and be on their way.
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2004
13,222
The Paris of the 80s
I've gotten the impression from various interviews some (many?) of the tour players are in favor of dialing the ball in moreso than say reworking or limiting clubs. Tigers definitely been vocal about this in the past.

The pros already play with a bunch of weird and quirky compliant but different balls like the various ProV1 dash/star combinations I dont see this being terribly different.
I wonder how much the manufacturers have talked to the players about this. It really has to be the ball. Selling $700+ drivers that are simply worse than what is available today isn't going to work. You'll have guys on YouTube comparing nerfed equipment to current equipment and it will be clear everything new is worse. That's not going to help club sales to the average golfer. Meanwhile golf balls are perishable and bought constantly.

I suppose selling new drivers that maximize distance with the new ball will work though. Which kind of gets me to thinking bifurcation doesn't happen. They'll just roll the ball back for everyone.
 

Gunca

New Member
Mar 5, 2020
44
I’m not really crazy about this. I mean if it’s going to happen, so be it, but golf ball technology hasn’t changed as much as people think it has since the introduction of the Pro V1. Rick Shiels has a video comparing the OG Pro V1 (2000) and the 2020 version. The results are nearly identical.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wxijRy2nrWs&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE


Now if you want to go back and compare it to the Professional 90, you’ll see about a 7 yard difference. 2nd Swing did a comparison below.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_sdf6uPtVNs&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE


In my opinion, the biggest factor in the distance uptick is Tiger’s off the course work ethic. He influenced an entire generation to get in the gym and train like athletes.
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,169
Arvada, Co
This is a dumb decision IMO. The longest hitters are still going be the longest hitters. Think back to "Tiger-proofing" the golf courses. All it did was make it easier for Tiger and harder for everyone else. This is Tiger proofing the golf ball.

It also has all kinds of knock-on effects upstream of the professional game. Does the NCAA adopt the new balls or does everyone coming out need to learn a new game when they go pro? What about top amateurs? Will all USGA sanctioned events require the new ball forcing any high-level am to always use that ball or risk having to play a different game in competition? I'm guessing compliant balls will also cost a lot more due to the target audience and economies of scale, so it's going to make golf even more expensive if you want to be competitive.

Finally, what's the problem being "solved"? Scored relative to par? Make all par 5s under 550 into par 4s. Make short par 4s into par 3s. Problem solved.
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,411
Does the NCAA adopt the new balls or does everyone coming out need to learn a new game when they go pro?
Lol it's a new ball, not a new sport. Elite players change balls literally all the time, I'm sure they can figure it out in like a week.

Finally, what's the problem being "solved"?
In their view, the ball goes too far, which has all sorts of downstream effects on courses and the game as a whole. They released a whole giant report on it and everything explaining all of this. It has nothing to do with scoring or protecting par.

What's amusing to me about the people whining about this is that it's like barely a change. They're slightly restricting the balls for elite tournament play. The balls are already bifurcated - tour players are often playing different balls than most amateurs. Nothing is gonna change about the balls people currently play. It's a small reduction in distance for elite swing speeds which imo doesn't do much. I wish they had done more.
 

jercra

No longer respects DeChambeau
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
3,169
Arvada, Co
Lol it's a new ball, not a new sport. Elite players change balls literally all the time, I'm sure they can figure it out in like a week.
Then why do it? Players don't change balls to ones that fly 10% shorter. And elite players pretty much only change balls when paid to do so. They change clubs much more often, but that's not the change being made. Why not (yeah, I know why not)?

My point was that playing all of your golf with one ball and then competitions with a ball that goes 10% shorter is a massive change to elite players. Elite players spend their lives in Trackman dialing in distances, spin, launch, etc. Having that all be different from college/am to pros is going to be a tough transition.

In their view, the ball goes too far, which has all sorts of downstream effects on courses and the game as a whole. They released a whole giant report on it and everything explaining all of this. It has nothing to do with scoring or protecting par.

What's amusing to me about the people whining about this is that it's like barely a change. They're slightly restricting the balls for elite tournament play. The balls are already bifurcated - tour players are often playing different balls than most amateurs. Nothing is gonna change about the balls people currently play. It's a small reduction in distance for elite swing speeds which imo doesn't do much. I wish they had done more.
I've read the whole giant report and talked extensively with people whose job it is to analyze the report. The report says basically nothing. Nothing will change as a result of this. Based on your own statements, this won't make a difference to elite players, so I ask again, why do it?

Why do you wish they had done more? What are you hoping to see that you don't see now?
 

TFP

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2007
20,411
Then why do it? Players don't change balls to ones that fly 10% shorter. And elite players pretty much only change balls when paid to do so.
Sure players play shorter balls all the time. Maybe not 10%, but they all balance distance with other characteristics. Rory changed balls last year mid-year from the new TP5 to the old 2019 TP5x, which he said helped his wedge game immensely. He also did it the week of a major (the PGA I believe it was the Masters). Titleist just came out with new ProV1s, are you saying none of the players switched to the new version? My point is they will just play all their golf with these new balls and it won't be an issue, they're not gonna switch back and forth between rounds with their friends and then their competitions.

Based on your own statements, this won't make a difference to elite players, so I ask again, why do it?

Why do you wish they had done more? What are you hoping to see that you don't see now?
It won't do much, but after listening to Mike Whan directly today, what it does is stop/re-set the progression of distance. It goes up about a yard a year (roughly), so this is just as much about 20 years from now as it is today. Why are these standards, created in 2004, the perfect ones? Do we think that distance won't KEEP increasing? It's just changing the standards slightly to basically bring it back 20 years and start the distance clock all over again and re-assess in 20 years basically.

And the reason why is obvious. The distance the ball goes is unsustainable for courses that host these tourneys all throughout all the elite levels. I wish they had made it even more rigorous, but I understand why they didn't. But man, people are acting like they're bringing back the balata here, it's just brining it back to about where it was when the ProV1 debuted. I've still yet to hear a convincing argument about why that's a bad thing.

Every other sport changes their equipment rules often, including golf over the years. Yet somehow this one change has people up in arms and I can't understand why.
 
Last edited:

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2004
13,222
The Paris of the 80s
Every other sport changes their equipment rules often, including golf over the years. Yet somehow this one change has people up in arms and I can't understand why.
I think it's obvious: the USGA and many golfers simply are living in different worlds. The USGA is backward looking, conservative, and bastion of the a world that is long gone. The game has changed dramatically over last 20+ years and many of the players are younger and don't care at all about golf's history or the old guard. It's a clash of civilizations.

Consider the USGA's equipment rulings over the years--e.g., Ping's wedge grooves, whatever they thought they were doing with ball requirements in the 90s, anchored putters, grooves again a decade ago--all of which could be viewed as arbitrary nonsense. Sprinkle in a dose of being beholden to the rich elite at some the old historic clubs who want to flaunt the pros playing on their tracks and you have recipe for complete distrust of their motives and purpose.