2023 Pats: Offseason

nattysez

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Wasn’t really sure which thread to put this in, was going to do the media lounge, but the beat writers are part of the franchise in a way, and it’ll get more eyes in here.

View: https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1648340277554450435?s=20
Thanks for linking this. I've been consuming Kyed's content in various forms for free over the years, so this is a good opportunity for me to give back.

Maybe toast is underlined?
Beautiful.
 

rodderick

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Huh, we're really piling on the whole Mayo as heir apparent stuff apparently. I don't know why anyone would assume continuity with the Belichick tree/culture would necessarily be seen as an asset by ownership when the time comes to pick the next HC. A whole lot of that hinges on how the next year or two play out.
 

lexrageorge

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Huh, we're really piling on the whole Mayo as heir apparent stuff apparently. I don't know why anyone would assume continuity with the Belichick tree/culture would necessarily be seen as an asset by ownership when the time comes to pick the next HC. A whole lot of that hinges on how the next year or two play out.
I didn't see anyone doing the piling on. Like anything, once Bill leaves (either of his own volition or via being shown the door), whomever is running the team will pick who they feel is the best choice. But it's not only Bill that thinks highly of Mayo's coaching acumen, so he would certainly be among the early favorites to assume the HC role.
 

rodderick

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I didn't see anyone doing the piling on. Like anything, once Bill leaves (either of his own volition or via being shown the door), whomever is running the team will pick who they feel is the best choice. But it's not only Bill that thinks highly of Mayo's coaching acumen, so he would certainly be among the early favorites to assume the HC role.
The idea of Mayo as next HC is all over the media and fanbase, wasn't talking about SoSH specifically. It's now being taken as a given by a lot of people.

I just think if the Patriots go 6-11 and 7-10 before Bill calls it quits/gets fired Mayo doesn't look as shiny anymore.
 

tims4wins

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The idea of Mayo as next HC is all over the media and fanbase, wasn't talking about SoSH specifically. It's now being taken as a given by a lot of people.

I just think if the Patriots go 6-11 and 7-10 before Bill calls it quits/gets fired Mayo doesn't look as shiny anymore.
Depends how the D plays, but generally agree. Ownership may want a fresh start.
 

dcdrew10

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The idea of Mayo as next HC is all over the media and fanbase, wasn't talking about SoSH specifically. It's now being taken as a given by a lot of people.

I just think if the Patriots go 6-11 and 7-10 before Bill calls it quits/gets fired Mayo doesn't look as shiny anymore.
I think it probably depends on 1. If Mayo doesn't bolt for greener pastures before the shine comes off. 2. Is the defense performing well, despite poor records? 3. Does RKK subscribe to the BB model of better to cut bait a year early than a year too late?
 

rodderick

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I think it probably depends on 1. If Mayo doesn't bolt for greener pastures before the shine comes off. 2. Is the defense performing well, despite poor records? 3. Does RKK subscribe to the BB model of better to cut bait a year early than a year too late?
Yeah, but then a lot of questions arise: Steve is the playcaller, if the defense is still doing well, who do you attribute their performance to? If the team doesn't have playoff success and you're presumably starting over with a new QB, do you not want an offensive mind at the helm? These are all real possibilities that could arise, I just don't think they're as set on Mayo as heir apparent as some in the media are making it seem. To me they gave him more assurances and responsibilities in order to keep him from being poached, but not with any promises.
 

bakahump

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Huh, we're really piling on the whole Mayo as heir apparent stuff apparently. I don't know why anyone would assume continuity with the Belichick tree/culture would necessarily be seen as an asset by ownership when the time comes to pick the next HC. A whole lot of that hinges on how the next year or two play out.
Why?

I think BB Schemes have been and continue to be second to none. Using what the lord gave you (Wind/rain/Snow/long grass/short grass) Has been a Hallmark of BB.

I assume those Schemes and Attention to detail are exactly the things you would expect Mayo to pick up.

Now we can argue about just how bad BBs drafts and GMing has been over the last 5 years....with some "every other" year misses before that.

IF Mayo where to be retained as Heir.......I doubt either Kraft would feel obligated or impelled to also make HIM GM as well as HC.
"Jerod You are the HC.......we will be Hiring a GM/Head of Personnel/Director of personnel/something to handle that side of the business.....We look forward to you tenure."


But to shit on BBs "Tree" (which has had failures no doubt) because you think it implies that Mayo would would also be in the position to make the same GMing mistakes BB has made seems misplaced.
The next guy will simply be the HC......Until he has like 8 years of sustained success and the possibility of leaving if he "Cant buy the grocerys".
 

Cellar-Door

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Mayo may be the next coach, he may not.... but that decision should not be made by ownership, it should be made by the new GM/POFO.
Unless a guy is holding both roles you should always hire the GM role and let him hire the coach.
 

Shelterdog

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Mayo may be the next coach, he may not.... but that decision should not be made by ownership, it should be made by the new GM/POFO.
Unless a guy is holding both roles you should always hire the GM role and let him hire the coach.
Or not? I'll bet that basically every team owner makes the final decision on the head coach regardless of who the GM is.
 

Cellar-Door

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Or not? I'll bet that basically every team owner makes the final decision on the head coach regardless of who the GM is.
Sure I guess if you mean they sign off, but teams that hire the coach then the GM almost always are badly run.
 

Shelterdog

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Sure I guess if you mean they sign off, but teams that hire the coach then the GM almost always are badly run.
I really don't know about that--the Chiefs for example hired Reid first then Dorsey- and the Seahawks Carrol then Schneider-but even if I agreed that the teams that hire coaches then GMs are almost alway badly run that doesn't mean that the you should let the GM hire the coach. The coach is an extremely important executive for a multi billion dollar enterprise, is not necessarily in a subordinate position to the "GM" and I in no way would expect a competent owner to delegate hiring the head coach to a GM.
 

Carmine Hose

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I'm puzzled that they got rid of Patricia entirely. BB reportedly loves him. I can see a re-assignment away from offense back to defense or somewhere else, but to send him packing is weird. With BB's choice to run the offense the way he did, he not only screwed over Jones, but also Patricia.
 

Shelterdog

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I'm puzzled that they got rid of Patricia entirely. BB reportedly loves him. I can see a re-assignment away from offense back to defense or somewhere else, but to send him packing is weird. With BB's choice to run the offense the way he did, he not only screwed over Jones, but also Patricia.
They may have screwed him but I think given how horrible last year went, and how much Patricia needs to rehabilitate his image away from the Pats if he wants a senior role on a football team again, getting a fresh start on a different time probably makes sense for him right now.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm puzzled that they got rid of Patricia entirely. BB reportedly loves him. I can see a re-assignment away from offense back to defense or somewhere else, but to send him packing is weird. With BB's choice to run the offense the way he did, he not only screwed over Jones, but also Patricia.
what is he going to do on defense? That was part of the problem that lead to them looking for something for him to do... they have 2 top defensive coaches already, 1 calls plays, both work gameplans. Are you demoting Mayo or Steve? Even at the positions, they have guys who have been there a long time (Brian Bellichick, Covington, Pellegrino) all with multiple years of success on good defenses. So you would basically have to let them leave, so now you're letting the few young successful coaches you have left go, so you can shoehorn in a guy who is looking for a future coordinator/coach job. And he's unlikely coming off a head coach job to be happy with a small position coach role anyway.

We didn't need anyone on D last year or this year, we needed guys on Offense to replace Josh and the guys who followed him.
 

Shelterdog

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How about his catastrophic tenure with the Lions or last year as the offensive mastermind of the Pats? Sample sizes big enough there?
I wouldn't hire him as either a head coach or an offensive coordinator but he did have a very good run as a defensive coordinator.
 

DJnVa

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Patricia is in the building: "Man, he sucks WTF"

Patricia is gone: "Maybe it wasn't all his fault"

lol
 

Shelterdog

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Patricia is in the building: "Man, he sucks WTF"

Patricia is gone: "Maybe it wasn't all his fault"

lol
I think i was reasonably supportive of him when he was here and gave him the benefit of the doubt to a fault when he was the OC
 

Super Nomario

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Sure I guess if you mean they sign off, but teams that hire the coach then the GM almost always are badly run.
I disagree. Pats, Chiefs, 49ers, Seahawks, Bills ... there are plenty of quality examples that way.

To me the real key is having clear lines of accountability. Either the GM is running the show or the head coach is, but you don't want to put the owner in a position to have to adjudicate decisions between them. I think the real key here is deciding who the head honcho is first, whether that's Mayo (or some other head coach) with ultimate authority, or hiring a GM and letting him pick the coaching staff.
 

Justthetippett

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what is he going to do on defense? That was part of the problem that lead to them looking for something for him to do... they have 2 top defensive coaches already, 1 calls plays, both work gameplans. Are you demoting Mayo or Steve? Even at the positions, they have guys who have been there a long time (Brian Bellichick, Covington, Pellegrino) all with multiple years of success on good defenses. So you would basically have to let them leave, so now you're letting the few young successful coaches you have left go, so you can shoehorn in a guy who is looking for a future coordinator/coach job. And he's unlikely coming off a head coach job to be happy with a small position coach role anyway.

We didn't need anyone on D last year or this year, we needed guys on Offense to replace Josh and the guys who followed him.
I do wonder if the Krafts played any role in him not coming back. All the talk was about him receding into the Pink Stripes role, and the fact that he's out completely is somewhat surprising. I mean the guy has burned some bridges. Maybe that happened here. I also think Bill likely talked to other teams to give him a good rec once it was clear he was gone.
 

Cellar-Door

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I do wonder if the Krafts played any role in him not coming back. All the talk was about him receding into the Pink Stripes role, and the fact that he's out completely is somewhat surprising. I mean the guy has burned some bridges. Maybe that happened here. I also think Bill likely talked to other teams to give him a good rec once it was clear he was gone.
The Eagles job is a clearly better job than anything he could have gotten here, I don't think the Krafts or anyone else forced him to leave... his options were some ill defined non-coaching role in NE, or a Special Defensive Assistant on the defending NFC Champs... if he wants to be a Coordinator or HC again in the NFL (or top level college) that's the much better spot to show what you can do and rehab your image.
 

Toe Nash

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He had the worst run out of every Patriots DC in the Belichick era and it wasn't particularly close.
Seconding this, thank God he's off the staff and lol at Philly. If they're lucky he will be in the background with schemes and tape etc., where he may be fine, and not actually working with players.
 

Jimbodandy

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The Eagles job is a clearly better job than anything he could have gotten here, I don't think the Krafts or anyone else forced him to leave... his options were some ill defined non-coaching role in NE, or a Special Defensive Assistant on the defending NFC Champs... if he wants to be a Coordinator or HC again in the NFL (or top level college) that's the much better spot to show what you can do and rehab your image.
This. He has a better chance of refurbishing his resume in a more visible and defined role on a better-perceived team (currently) than on an ill-defined back-bench pink stripes role on a team that probably has a 8.5 Vegas over.
 

Shelterdog

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Seconding this, thank God he's off the staff and lol at Philly. If they're lucky he will be in the background with schemes and tape etc., where he may be fine, and not actually working with players.
I get the sense that he worked with players fine as a defensive coach in NE then it went off the rails in Detroit because he was (like so many former pats coaches) trying to be a BB like a-hole/commanding presence. NOt clear if he was bad with the players or not as an offensive coordinator--a lot of the the personal venom seems to have been related to Joe Judge. (He was clearly a totally fucking intept offensive coordinator, not trying to argue otherwise).
 

joe dokes

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I'm puzzled that they got rid of Patricia entirely. BB reportedly loves him. I can see a re-assignment away from offense back to defense or somewhere else, but to send him packing is weird. With BB's choice to run the offense the way he did, he not only screwed over Jones, but also Patricia.
My guess is that BB does still like him, and kept him on after the offensive debacle to keep his reputation at least marginally intact so he could get another job.
 

BaseballJones

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The Sox are the worst team in the AL East.
The Pats are the worst team in the AFC East.

Ugh.

Thankfully the Celtics look like the best team in the Eastern Conference, and the Bruins look like the best team in the NHL. Two out of four ain't bad. And at least the two "worst" teams are both about .500, so it's not like the Pats are looking at a 4-win season while the Sox manage just 63 wins. Those two worst teams are at least competitive.
 

rodderick

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The Sox are the worst team in the AL East.
The Pats are the worst team in the AFC East.

Ugh.

Thankfully the Celtics look like the best team in the Eastern Conference, and the Bruins look like the best team in the NHL. Two out of four ain't bad. And at least the two "worst" teams are both about .500, so it's not like the Pats are looking at a 4-win season while the Sox manage just 63 wins. Those two worst teams are at least competitive.
I think it's easy to see a scenario in which the Jets and Dolphins collapse with some key injuries and the Pats overtake one or both and I don't think the median outcome for those teams is that significantly better than the one for the Pats, but if you assume a scenario in which the entire AL East plays to its full potential, then yeah, the Pats are the least talented team by a considerable margin. Their advantage is in maximizing said talent.
 

ifmanis5

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Let the signings commence. QB4.
View: https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1652447875387777024

Former Louisville QB Malik Cunningham is signing with the #Patriots, per source.

Ran a 4.53 40 at the combine, rushed for 3,179 yards, 50 touchdowns in his college career.

Malik Cunningham, Louisville, 6-feet, 192 pounds

Never a comforting thing to see "dual-threat" and "undersized" in the same scouting report, but that's what Cunningham is. He's a dynamic runner at the position (ran a 4.53.second 40 at the combine), having racked up more touchdowns in his five-year career (120) than Lamar Jackson. He completed 62.6 percent of his passes and tallied almost 9.0 yards per attempt. His 70-to-29 touchdown-to-interception ratio is adequate by Patriots standards, but less-than-ideal accuracy on passes that travel 20 yards or more (31 percent, per Pro Football Focus) may give the Patriots pause. Would the team be willing to add him and build an offense that would fit his skill set should he ever find himself in game action? Worth asking. But having an athlete at the position would give the Patriots a dynamic they don't currently have, and with the game getting faster every year, it might not be a bad idea to invest in Cunningham -- especially since he's a likely Day 3 pick.
 

SMU_Sox

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Their defense actually matches up well vs Miami FWIW. Adding Gonzalez, White, and Mapu, if I didn’t know better, would be like the antidote to solving the Bills’s offense (assuming they develop and hit).
 

AB in DC

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I'd still like to know who's playing at OT next year. Not a whole lot left on the FA market. Donovan Smith, Taylor Lewan maybe??