2023 NBA Draft: Wem! Ban! Thank You Yam!

Kliq

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Hard to know with Zion. He's always injured. Another thing those players have mostly had is good health.
I'd argue that physical conditioning is part of the motivation to be the best. Look at what Giannis/LeBron have done with their bodies and look at Zion.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'd argue that physical conditioning is part of the motivation to be the best. Look at what Giannis/LeBron have done with their bodies and look at Zion.
Agree completely, but some guys are in phenomenal shape and work their balls off and get hurt through bad luck and sometimes bad genetics.

Victor seems better proportioned to me than some, but height like his is always a red flag. I don't know the numbers, but basically anyone over 7'0" is at higher risk it seems. I'd draft him first without a second thought, but I think that you can bet the house that he misses a season in his first contract with a foot injury at best.
 

TripleOT

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If a video game designer created a virtual player like Wembanyana, gamers would probably consider it unrealistic.
 

InstaFace

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Y'all can go right ahead and assume that any further footage of li'l Vic here, you can go right ahead and post that for a grateful public.
 

Kliq

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Interesting article in The Athletic, which talks about Grant Nelson, a North Dakota State junior who went from being basically unnoticed by NBA scouts, to surging up draft boards and could end up as a first round pick by the time the draft runs around. A friend of his made a compilation tape of his highlights which got him on the radar screen and as scouts pouring out to Fargo: https://theathletic.com/4206199/2023/02/22/victor-wembanyama-height-weight-prospect-nba-draft/

For those looking for an update on Wembanyama, he is averaging 22-10 on 47% shooting and 3.2 bpg in France, staggering numbers for a teenager playing in a physical league with a lot of NBA-caliber athletes. Everyone continues to gush about his once-in-a-generation talent.

Scoot Henderson remains locked in at #2 as the consolation prize and has been as advertised. He's averaging 19 ppg with 6 assists and 4 rebounds, and a solid 2-to-1 TO/Assist ratio, which is pretty good for a lead guard that just turned 19. To compare his G League performance so far to Jalen Green; Green scored at about the same right and shot the ball well from three, which Scoot has not, but Green wasn't nearly the playmaker that Scoot has been.

After those two it's a bunch of wings, led by Brandon Miller, who may not be long for the NBA Draft after he was allegedly involved in a murder. There is also Jarace Walker from Houston, Cam Whitmore from Villanova, Anthony Black from Arkansas, Keyonte George from Baylor, and the Thompson twins who play in the Overtime Elite league. Also climbing up draft boards is Kansas Freshmen wing Gradey Dick.
 

HomeRunBaker

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After those two it's a bunch of wings, led by Brandon Miller, who may not be long for the NBA Draft after he was allegedly involved in a murder.
This part comes across as very misleading. Unless something new emerges everything I’ve read, including a statement by the deputy chief, there isn’t any crime that Miller would be charged with in that case. He didn’t appear too concerned last night when he dropped 41 on the road.
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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What do you guys think of Miller? I watched the Alabama-South Carolina game last night and it seemed like he could get to the rim at will. Checked his stats and he is shooting 43% from 3 and 86% from the line.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What do you guys think of Miller? I watched the Alabama-South Carolina game last night and it seemed like he could get to the rim at will. Checked his stats and he is shooting 43% from 3 and 86% from the line.
What would you think of a 6-9 Ray Allen with the vision of a pure PG who also possesses Steph’s range? His greatest flaws are shot creation off the dribble, finishing in traffic and/or at the rim but not sure if I’ve ever seen a better collegiate 3-point shooter.
 

Kliq

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Miller vs Scoot might become an interesting debate. Scoot has a ton of talent but also seems really raw and I'm always worried about guys coming into the league without any real evidence that they can shoot threes. I guess his FT% is okay, but his jumper is a work-in-progress.
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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What would you think of a 6-9 Ray Allen with the vision of a pure PG who also possesses Steph’s range? His greatest flaws are shot creation off the dribble, finishing in traffic and/or at the rim but not sure if I’ve ever seen a better collegiate 3-point shooter.
This is what I'm here for. Thanks. I was blown away watching him. As a comp how would he compare against KD at Texas?
 

BigSoxFan

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This part comes across as very misleading. Unless something new emerges everything I’ve read, including a statement by the deputy chief, there isn’t any crime that Miller would be charged with in that case. He didn’t appear too concerned last night when he dropped 41 on the road.
Hard to know what’s going on here with respect to the gun. Miller claims he wasn’t aware of it until Miles told him to bring it. No idea if he just got up with the wrong crowd or if he’s part of the gun culture. This will be the ultimate wake up call, if the latter is true.

From a pure talent standpoint, he is pretty ridiculous.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is what I'm here for. Thanks. I was blown away watching him. As a comp how would he compare against KD at Texas?
Not saying he’ll be KG but can’t help seeing similarities. We keep this going all day and we’re going to end up with a Durant/Allen/Curry/Crittenton love child.
 

benhogan

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Not saying he’ll be KG but can’t help seeing similarities. We keep this going all day and we’re going to end up with a Durant/Allen/Curry/Crittenton love child.
would you use a 2nd on Zach Edey or is he just another Tacko/Garza more than a Walker Kessler?
 

Kliq

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Scouts are really down on Edey; he just seems too slow to be a significant player in the NBA despite his size and skill. I'm sure he'll get a chance somewhere, but he strikes me as a slightly faster Boban.
 

Jimbodandy

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Scouts are really down on Edey; he just seems too slow to be a significant player in the NBA despite his size and skill. I'm sure he'll get a chance somewhere, but he strikes me as a slightly faster Boban.
Slightly faster Boban would be one hell of a second round pick for someone.
 

BaseballJones

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I mean, for a second round pick, a guy with his size and skill set would be a no-brainer, right? The worst that happens is that he doesn't work out, but that's the vast, vast majority of second round picks anyway. There just aren't many guys with his size and skills. Totally worth a second round shot.
 

HomeRunBaker

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would you use a 2nd on Zach Edey or is he just another Tacko/Garza more than a Walker Kessler?
Edey is a poor man’s Boban. I don’t expect him to play in the league at all or at best minimal Garza minutes. Like Jokic in an All-Star game he just isn’t built for the NBA game.

Boban is an elite low-post offensive player and can’t see minutes so his prospects are dim imo.
 

Swedgin

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This part comes across as very misleading. Unless something new emerges everything I’ve read, including a statement by the deputy chief, there isn’t any crime that Miller would be charged with in that case. He didn’t appear too concerned last night when he dropped 41 on the road.
It's clear that he won't be charged with a crime. Seems premature to conclude whether it will impact his draft position.

One thing all reasonable folks can agree on is that Alabama's head coach handled the public facing side of this situation horribly. His wrong place wrong time/can't control what college age kids will do - comments were incredibly tone deaf even by the low standards of college coaches.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's clear that he won't be charged with a crime. Seems premature to conclude whether it will impact his draft position.

One thing all reasonable folks can agree on is that Alabama's head coach handled the public facing side of this situation horribly. His wrong place wrong time/can't control what college age kids will do - comments were incredibly tone deaf even by the low standards of college coaches.
Yeah I was mocking Oats’ response in the college thread. He’s supposed to be an adult representing the university. So bad.

Unless something else comes out I doubt this will affect Miller’s stock but who knows.
 

nighthob

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I mean, for a second round pick, a guy with his size and skill set would be a no-brainer, right? The worst that happens is that he doesn't work out, but that's the vast, vast majority of second round picks anyway. There just aren't many guys with his size and skills. Totally worth a second round shot.
His upside is “Might be useful 2-5 games per year”. You can pretty much always do better than that.
 

InstaFace

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Shawn Bradley was bigger and lasted plenty long. Shaq was and is 7'3". Etc. It's not like they didn't have an injury history but they got plenty of career.
 

Euclis20

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Shawn Bradley was bigger and lasted plenty long. Shaq was and is 7'3". Etc. It's not like they didn't have an injury history but they got plenty of career.
It's not just about height, it's about frame. He's not holmgren skinny, but he's not shaq, who was about 7'1 320 in his prime. Bradley isn't a terrible health comp, but the game is different and he'll have to do a lot more than Bradley, increasing his wear and tear. The closest physical and play style comp I see in recent history is porzingis, right down to the injury risk (wemby's upside is an order of magnitude higher, but still).
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's not just about height, it's about frame. He's not holmgren skinny, but he's not shaq, who was about 7'1 320 in his prime. Bradley isn't a terrible health comp, but the game is different and he'll have to do a lot more than Bradley, increasing his wear and tear. The closest physical and play style comp I see in recent history is porzingis, right down to the injury risk (wemby's upside is an order of magnitude higher, but still).
I think it’s about movement also. Shaq and Bradley were straight line, up and down the court players. Porzingis, Holmgren and Wamby rely on quick lateral bursts that place a lot of stress on joints that probably aren’t designed for these movements from a 7-4 player.
 

djbayko

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Tall (and thin) is always an injury risk, but I'm much less worried about this kid than Chet. He was a skeleton at draft time.
 

stp130

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So, if Wembanyana pans out anything close to his potential (and stays healthy), you know he's going to end up on the Lakers some day.

What's the earliest that could happen after he is drafted - 4 years, right?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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So, if Wembanyana pans out anything close to his potential (and stays healthy), you know he's going to end up on the Lakers some day.

What's the earliest that could happen after he is drafted - 4 years, right?
With the caveat that I’m not sure if the new CBA changed much in this regard, I believe the earliest is 5 years. Rookie contract is 4, then he is a RFA at which point the team makes a one year qualifying offer. He can sign an offer sheet (matchable by original team), sign an extension, etc.

If someone really wanted out they could sign and play under the one year qualifying offer and hit free agency the following summer. I don’t know if this has ever really been done by a high profile player as there are financial incentives (I believe) to stay with the drafting team.
 

nighthob

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So, if Wembanyana pans out anything close to his potential (and stays healthy), you know he's going to end up on the Lakers some day.

What's the earliest that could happen after he is drafted - 4 years, right?
In practical terms, seven years. But given that even LeBron has been unable to terminate LA’s reputation as a clownshow, I wouldn’t be certain that anyone ends up there. Showtime is long dead.
 

nighthob

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On the final day of the year Houston is hanging on to a lead against the Wiz and look like finishing 22-60. It’ll be interesting to see if Dallas actively tries to throw the San Antonio game with the NBA looking into their conduct. But it looks like there’s a good chance that they finish 21-61 giving Boston the 33rd pick. Now if Houston can just win the lottery that will make it a perfect draft for me.
 

Euclis20

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I’m voting for Portland, though I would take Washington.
I'll take Portland for sure, but I'll settle with him heading west. Among teams with realistic odds, the one I selfishly don't want him on Orlando - him and Paolo teaming up is a scary prospect for the east in 3-4 years.
 

GreenMonster49

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On the final day of the year Houston is hanging on to a lead against the Wiz and look like finishing 22-60. It’ll be interesting to see if Dallas actively tries to throw the San Antonio game with the NBA looking into their conduct. But it looks like there’s a good chance that they finish 21-61 giving Boston the 33rd pick. Now if Houston can just win the lottery that will make it a perfect draft for me.
I think Houston and San Antonio will have a coin flip for the 32nd pick. If San Antonio wins, the Celtics have the 33rd pick, but if Houston wins the Celtics instead have the 35th pick from the Blazers.
 

nighthob

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The Celtics already have the 35th pick. It’s between 32 and 51 I believe.
 

lovegtm

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The Celtics already have the 35th pick. It’s between 32 and 51 I believe.
I'm seeing reports that they send the 35th to OKC if they get 33 from Houston, but that pick situation is so complex that Tankathon gives up and says "Very complex stuff between DAL/MIA/OKC/WAS/HOU picks", and RealGM and prosportstransactions are similarly unclear.

I'm sure someone here knows, but second round picks are incredibly convoluted around the league right now. In Zarren we trust, I guess.
 

nighthob

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The Portland pick came to Boston via the Tristan Thompson trade. The confusion (from the sportswriters) might be from the fact that Portland was involved in the trade for the Houston first. That pick came from the Desmond Bane/Enes Freedom trade. Bane went to Memphis, EF to Portland, and two second round picks to Boston. One of those was the Houston pick that was protected for 31-32 (which converts into the lesser of the Miami/Dallas #2s if the Houston #2 conveys to Indiana) and the other a Memphis #2 from 2025. Given that that deal saw Bane head out, I’d really like Boston end up with something to show for it.

EDIT: Wait, was one of the #2s they traded for Muscala a ‘23 pick? And if so, why would Presti want it? That would leave OKC with another 3-4 second rounders this year, how many guys do they think they can add to that roster? (Are they increasing roster sizes to 26 in the new CBA?)
 
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benhogan

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Wait, was one of the #2s they traded for Muscala a ‘23 pick? And if so, why would Presti want it? That would leave OKC with another 3-4 second rounders this year, how many guys do they think they can add to that roster? (Are they increasing roster sizes to 26 in the new CBA?)
2029 2nd round pick and 2023 2nd round pick [least favorable of BOS picks]

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/transactions/2023/boston-celtics/

I'd assume "least favorable of BOS picks" means they will get the Celtics 2023 2nd rounder (#59)

Maybe Presti sells some of those 2nds to pad the owners wallet. The extra two-way in the new CBA probably upticks the price of 2nds
 
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Humphrey

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Because my first basketball was a San Diego Rockets ball and they’ve always been my other team. Fuck Pops.
Pops will be 75 during next season. Could see him giving it one or two last hurrahs with a ready made contender; not with a bunch of youngsters.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Pops will be 75 during next season. Could see him giving it one or two last hurrahs with a ready made contender; not with a bunch of youngsters.
I dunno about this. If Pop wanted to leave the Spurs for a contender at age 75 wouldn’t he have already done it at ages 74, 73, 72, 71 or 70?
 

InstaFace

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I think he's implying that Pop will retire rather than go through a rebuild with a bunch of youngsters.

And I would say he has already rebuilt before, he was rebuilding this season, and he's clearly having a lot of fun and (much like Belichick), why stop now?