2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread

benhogan

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Paid the price with a Championship? I know everyone hates the Lakers but good grief, they accomplished the same goal we did in ‘08
I think @InstaFace mistakenly threw The Lonz in there.

Everyone thinks that AD trade demand was a Laker win and led to a Championship (thought Griffin did the best he could under the circumstances)

We were discussing the pitfalls + knock-on effects of the Westbrook trade in the Summer of 2021
 

benhogan

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It's not as if Lebron was the only GM to be fooled by the Westbrook allure
Ha, a 32-year-old Russ in a steep multi-year decline (credit to Sam Presti with a brilliant exit)

Palinka & Co likes to pin it on Bron but they could have thought it through a little more.

Then paying a 20-year-old THT lottery ticket instead of keeping a consistently efficient 26-year-old Bald Mamba just compounded their Summer of Blunder.
 

DavidTai

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I assume NBA owners are basically one large fraternity, but this still seems like an odd question to pose to your chief rival in the conference. Especially when Doc hasn't worked in Boston for over a decade and has had two other major jobs since.
I just assumed he made the recommendation, got off the phone, and laughed his ass off.
 

Red Averages

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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InstaFace

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Paid the price with a Championship? I know everyone hates the Lakers but good grief, they accomplished the same goal we did in ‘08
Well I meant after that, as the championship came before a lot of the trades that tore out the supporting pillars of their roster. Yes, they make the Lonzo / AD trade every day of the week, whether they know how it ends (Trophy) or not. But I think they undo the Westbrook deal, and as benhogan pointed out, the Caruso offer, if given the chance to go back and re-do.
 

InstaFace

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I assume NBA owners are basically one large fraternity, but this still seems like an odd question to pose to your chief rival in the conference. Especially when Doc hasn't worked in Boston for over a decade and has had two other major jobs since.
Yeah, but "for the love of god, please hire Doc Rivers" might not have gone over quite the same way.

I was actually in the room and able to capture some video for a documentary I’m doing.
hah, exactly.
 

Euclis20

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Lakers PR Director Ramona Shelburne on the Lowe Post doing her best to screw up the Warriors
Probably messes with the Ws most fragile players Wiggins/Klay the most.
She claims to have gotten the story from Woj, so full of BS.

Lakers vs. Warriors play-in game is going to be ferocious

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dnfaa_c60w
I'll be rooting hard against both teams to even get that far, but it doesn't seem like Houston/Utah are up for the challenge. These two finishing with the 9th/10 seeds is the next best thing, that would instantly be the most compelling play-in game in history (small sample, but still).
 

PedroKsBambino

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Lakers PR Director Ramona Shelburne on the Lowe Post doing her best to screw up the Warriors
Probably messes with the Ws most fragile players Wiggins/Klay the most.
She claims to have gotten the story from Woj, so full of BS.

Lakers vs. Warriors play-in game is going to be ferocious

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dnfaa_c60w
my guess is Woj got from an actual source (this story is a serious scoop) and pulled in Ramona to find out Jeannie Buss’ talking points. Which, as per form, Ramona then mouthed
 

SemperFidelisSox

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Watching a little bit of the celebrity game on ESPN. It might seem like a ridiculous thought now, but I think these LED courts are going to be a big part of the NBA future. It might start off as just a way to fit more advertisements on the court, but eventually someone is going to suggest “What if we put a 5-pointer spot on the floor in overtime?”
 

lars10

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Watching a little bit of the celebrity game on ESPN. It might seem like a ridiculous thought now, but I think these LED courts are going to be a big part of the NBA future. It might start off as just a way to fit more advertisements on the court, but eventually someone is going to suggest “What if we put a 5-pointer spot on the floor in overtime?”
I feel like that would kinda suck.

What happens when you put these LED courts on top of an ice rink?
 

jmcc5400

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I don’t know if team Pau could make the playoffs, but it has seven guys who could play in a playoff rotation.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I thought Doc was a great coach for that team, got a new trio of stars to buy in and be team focused.
He’s never had a chance with so many injuries to his rotation and a difficult schedule….not to mention the flawed roster construction. Reading through the internet you’d think Doc w the Bucks was similar to Tarkanians 2-month tenure with the Spurs.
 

cheech13

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I think it’s kind of wild that the consensus here seems to be Mazzulla is a better coach than Doc.
 

benhogan

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I think it’s kind of wild that the consensus here seems to be Mazzulla is a better coach than Doc.
FWIW, Joe did beat him in G6 & G7 last season with zero coaching staff.

I think the consensus around here enjoys seeing the Bucks or 76ers struggle, which has been Doc's last 2 stops.
 

lovegtm

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I think it’s kind of wild that the consensus here seems to be Mazzulla is a better coach than Doc.
Because Doc won a title 15 years ago?

Alternatively, if we're going to do the standard as "jumps in as head coach of a talented roster in the midst of turmoil and with not much preparation".......
 

Smokey Joe

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Watching a little bit of the celebrity game on ESPN. It might seem like a ridiculous thought now, but I think these LED courts are going to be a big part of the NBA future. It might start off as just a way to fit more advertisements on the court, but eventually someone is going to suggest “What if we put a 5-pointer spot on the floor in overtime?”
One that flashes on and off and it only counts if you shoot when it’s on.
 

InstaFace

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I think it’s kind of wild that the consensus here seems to be Mazzulla is a better coach than Doc.
Mazzulla Year 2 vs Doc Rivers Year 2 in Orlando? No contest.

Mazzulla 2024 vs Doc Rivers 2024? We obviously don't really have decent data yet on how he's going to do in Milwaukee, just anecdotes that we're eager to enhance into narratives. If we think Mazzulla was dealt a rough hand being given the Head Coach job a week before the 2022 season started, imagine what it'd feel like jumping in 4 months into the season, right? But I do think there's enough of a track record of Doc's recent stops to think that Mazzulla could be a better coach than Rivers is today. Like, if we could rewind to last June, would we want to trade Mazzulla for Doc Rivers? I very much doubt it.
 

lars10

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Mazzulla Year 2 vs Doc Rivers Year 2 in Orlando? No contest.

Mazzulla 2024 vs Doc Rivers 2024? We obviously don't really have decent data yet on how he's going to do in Milwaukee, just anecdotes that we're eager to enhance into narratives. If we think Mazzulla was dealt a rough hand being given the Head Coach job a week before the 2022 season started, imagine what it'd feel like jumping in 4 months into the season, right? But I do think there's enough of a track record of Doc's recent stops to think that Mazzulla could be a better coach than Rivers is today. Like, if we could rewind to last June, would we want to trade Mazzulla for Doc Rivers? I very much doubt it.
Not sure which scenario is worse though.. preparing to be an assistant coach for the entire off season and then becoming a head coach, for the first time, with your team having not played a game. OR.. watching a team play a ways into the season, volunteering to assist the team/new coach and then intentionally putting yourself into that situation as the new coach, with a ton of experience. It's not like Doc was thrown into that role.. he threw himself into it.

Not sure who is the better coach at the moment, but I'm not sure/don't see what Doc is doing with the Bucks in terms of how he wants them to play, implementing his ideas into the team etc. This start is far worse than he could've expected though.

I didn't really believe in JM last year, but I've started listening to a bunch of his press conferences.. he's very well spoken and gives a lot of answers to questions that show he really thinks about a bunch of scenarios and has intention to his moves. He admits to mistakes and times when he's still learning.. and he also has a sense of humor. It made me respect him a bunch more.. especially at such a young age.

As you said.. I don't think you'd trade Mazzulla for Doc right now.. I think JM is, if not the right coach for this team.. he's at least one of the right ones... plus the guys seem to love playing for him. KP in interviews has talked about how impressed he's been with the coaching from him, as just one example.
 

lars10

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okay, but hear me out: trap doors in the court floor
can there be sharks with lasers?

edit: and I was also serious about the hockey rink below.. how does this surface play vs. a hardwood floor. What happens when it gets wet, either from sweat or condensation? I feel like I read some comments here about it's slip resistance or how it's finished.. not sure where. Has this floor been used in any other NBA game? Seems odd to test it when the best players in the sport are playing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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As you said.. I don't think you'd trade Mazzulla for Doc right now.. I think JM is, if not the right coach for this team.. he's at least one of the right ones... plus the guys seem to love playing for him. KP in interviews has talked about how impressed he's been with the coaching from him, as just one example.
When Derrick was at the post game presser he was asked about JM’s 100th win. He went on to talk about when he first came to Boston and was trying to get up to speed everyone said to him anything you want to know about our defense go see Joe.
 

benhogan

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can there be sharks with lasers?

edit: and I was also serious about the hockey rink below.. how does this surface play vs. a hardwood floor. What happens when it gets wet, either from sweat or condensation? I feel like I read some comments here about it's slip resistance or how it's finished.. not sure where. Has this floor been used in any other NBA game? Seems odd to test it when the best players in the sport are playing.
1. The court was already used by FIBA for certain international events starting in 2022, so it might not be as risky as it sounds.

2. The LED court will be in use for All-Star festivities on Friday and Saturday night at Lucas Oil Stadium, including the All-Star Celebrity Game and 3-Point Contest. The court will not be used in Sunday's All-Star Game, which will be played back at the Pacers' Gainbridge Fieldhouse.

3. Each layer of safety glass is about five millimeters thick, according to Forbes, and both are above panels of LED lights. The panels are translucent enough for the animations and effects created by the lights to be visible. The safety glass also has "an etched surface with ceramic dots spaced to provide grip and friction" for players.

4. The court has returned "near-equivalent results" when tested in comparison to a regular hardwood court, the NBA's Christopher Arena told Forbes, so don't expect to see anyone slipping or basketballs bouncing irregularly if the test results are accurate.

5."Things that would normally appear on a jumbotron will now appear on the floor alongside the live action," Meyers said, which could add a fun element to what are already exciting All-Star events. The NBA's release listed "live replays" and "real-time game stats" among the potential features an LED court can display.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-all-star-led-court-design-indianapolis/15c4579e686c27c72616fe83
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Not sure which scenario is worse though.. preparing to be an assistant coach for the entire off season and then becoming a head coach, for the first time, with your team having not played a game. OR.. watching a team play a ways into the season, volunteering to assist the team/new coach and then intentionally putting yourself into that situation as the new coach, with a ton of experience. It's not like Doc was thrown into that role.. he threw himself into it.

Not sure who is the better coach at the moment, but I'm not sure/don't see what Doc is doing with the Bucks in terms of how he wants them to play, implementing his ideas into the team etc. This start is far worse than he could've expected though.

I didn't really believe in JM last year, but I've started listening to a bunch of his press conferences.. he's very well spoken and gives a lot of answers to questions that show he really thinks about a bunch of scenarios and has intention to his moves. He admits to mistakes and times when he's still learning.. and he also has a sense of humor. It made me respect him a bunch more.. especially at such a young age.

As you said.. I don't think you'd trade Mazzulla for Doc right now.. I think JM is, if not the right coach for this team.. he's at least one of the right ones... plus the guys seem to love playing for him. KP in interviews has talked about how impressed he's been with the coaching from him, as just one example.
I agree that at some point you have to believe the players. KP, JB, White all have talked quite a bit in public about how Joe has got them to buy into analytics, playing smarter, hunting mismatches, getting the best shot available, etc.

I honestly don’t think old guard coaches like Doc are doing much of that. Doc strikes me as much more of a motivational speaker type, getting guys to embrace roles and that sort of thing.

In-game is a little different, and it’s hard to know what’s going on, but when TNT gives you those glimpses into time-outs my kid on more than one occasion has complained that they showed Joe giving actual strategy. We assumed TV wasn’t allowed to show that, but now I’m starting to wonder if lots of coaches just don’t have much going on in those time outs…
 

Montana Fan

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When Derrick was at the post game presser he was asked about JM’s 100th win. He went on to talk about when he first came to Boston and was trying to get up to speed everyone said to him anything you want to know about our defense go see Joe.
Pretty sure he referenced Will “Hardy” as giving him that direction which reminded me about what a quality staff Ime had.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Pretty sure he referenced Will “Hardy” as giving him that direction which reminded me about what a quality staff Ime had.
Yes he began with Ime and Will before mentioning the 2nd row assistant Mazzulla in regards to anything defense.
 

lars10

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I agree that at some point you have to believe the players. KP, JB, White all have talked quite a bit in public about how Joe has got them to buy into analytics, playing smarter, hunting mismatches, getting the best shot available, etc.

I honestly don’t think old guard coaches like Doc are doing much of that. Doc strikes me as much more of a motivational speaker type, getting guys to embrace roles and that sort of thing.

In-game is a little different, and it’s hard to know what’s going on, but when TNT gives you those glimpses into time-outs my kid on more than one occasion has complained that they showed Joe giving actual strategy. We assumed TV wasn’t allowed to show that, but now I’m starting to wonder if lots of coaches just don’t have much going on in those time outs…
If you just go by win percentage .. I realize that’s not the best way.. Joe’s first year would be tied with the third best of Doc’s career. This year would be third.. Doc had two great years with the Celts and a couple very good years with the Clips. He has 8 seasons with 50+ wins in 25 years and didn’t win 50+ until 2008 with the C’s in his 9th year. JM is about to be two for two.

Also hard to argue that any exceptional coach would have more than 3 wins out of 10 with the talent on this Bucks team.
 

lars10

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I think it’s kind of wild that the consensus here seems to be Mazzulla is a better coach than Doc.
Do you have any stats or substantive info to show that Doc is currently better? Anything other than lol! amirite?!
 

PedroKsBambino

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Do you have any stats or substantive info to show that Doc is currently better? Anything other than lol! amirite?!
Just watch last year’s series—Joe wasn’t great and he was still very clearly the better coach head to head. Which the Sixers saw as well
 

lovegtm

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If we want to talk concrete particulars as to why I think Mazzulla is obviously a good coach now:
  • Offensive execution. The team attacks mismatches so much better and with so much more variety now. They also have gotten a lot of reps playing with a lot of variety out of a couple base sets, and Mazzulla has tailored the sets to their talents very well (lots of 3-man actions with counters, non-static postups, etc)
  • Focus and resilience. They are 8-2 on B2Bs, and only have one 2-game losing streak all season. They very rarely lose in blowouts (just Milwaukee/LAC), and they hold it together in-game when the other team makes runs.
  • Creativity+execution on defense. The zone is fun, but they do a lot of other switching really well, and can turn up the intensity when desired. They don't have just one way to play on D, which is usually the sign of good coaching over the course of a season.
  • Roleplayer development. They've taken Hauser, PP and Kornet from out-of-rotation guys to clearly in the rotation and playable in the playoffs (imo), which is a big win for an expensive team.
  • Ego management. They put effectively 5 All-Stars on the floor and have had zero issues with guys demanding shots or whatever. The coach has to get some credit for that.
I enjoy being a fan of the team whose coach has player buy-in and also gets creative schematically. Even under peak Brad, and definitely under Ime/1st year Joe, it felt like the other team was the one making us respond too often. It was fun, for example, to fluster Miami with zone at times in the recent win over them.
 

lovegtm

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I get Bam just because of the name factor, and the Heat have been better than expected, but Barnes making it over KP was a tragedy.

I agree though, KP>Bam.
I get that KP has availability issues, so I don't make a huge deal about it. But when he's on the floor, the gap between him and Bam/Barnes is a chasm. He's an elite offensive player who's also figured out how to maximize what he does defensively.

He gets treated like a complementary guy who helps an offense be good, when he's closer to an All-NBA performer on that end imo.
 

InstaFace

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I will die on this hill:
Huh, looks like a lot of players start being better at basketball when they start playing alongside Tatum and Brown.

(I know the point of DPM is to make the best possible effort to separate a player's abilities from the impact of their teammates, but it's always seemed like a chicken and egg issue with metric design)