2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,356
Pittsburgh, PA
He does often seem to be hurt, but when you're ALWAYS hurt (and nobody is 100% by the time you get to the 2nd round of the playoffs) and you're 29, it's time to stop using that as an excuse.
Yeah, c'mon Joel! Rub some dirt on it, ya sissy! We don't accept excuses like "my body is broken and I'm one of the largest humans on the planet" around here! You're 29, it's time to grow up and face the music. Just, ya know, apply yourself a little harder, and that will surely overcome the best efforts of better-quality teams with better coaching, plus your own injury.

I'm sure you said the same about Jayson Tatum when he sprained his ankle in the first minute of Game 7. That's no excuse, buddy! I expect you to get out there and make a difference, injury or not!
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,446
Yeah, c'mon Joel! Rub some dirt on it, ya sissy! We don't accept excuses like "my body is broken and I'm one of the largest humans on the planet" around here! You're 29, it's time to grow up and face the music. Just, ya know, apply yourself a little harder, and that will surely overcome the best efforts of better-quality teams with better coaching, plus your own injury.

I'm sure you said the same about Jayson Tatum when he sprained his ankle in the first minute of Game 7. That's no excuse, buddy! I expect you to get out there and make a difference, injury or not!
No one expects Tatum's ankle to be the predictable effect of his playing a long series.

People expect Embiid to wear down physically over a long series, and to have those series exacerbate minor issues he has.

This has happened a lot now, and it's up to Embiid to show that it won't happen again.

It's tough, because he's so big and seems to be somewhat more physically fragile than other superstars.
 

SteveF

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
2,063
It's really not just injury with Embiid. His defense simply isn't as valuable in the playoffs because he can't/won't/isn't comfortable defending on the perimeter.

Philly needs a player that can run the offense credibly when Maxey is off the floor, and a 4 that brings some rim protection to give them more defensive versatility. I'm sure in some playoff series you can stash Embiid on the worst shooter, let someone else guard the center, and keep Embiid near the rim, but that might not be a viable tactic against Milwaukee or Boston. They'll force him to the perimeter eventually and Philly will need something behind him. They basically need an Aaron Gordon type.

And offensively, Embiid is working more in that high post/elbow area where Jokic works. Embiid can't make all the passes Jokic makes, but he can make a decent number of them. And Embiid's midrange game might not be quite as efficient as Jokic's, but he does it from a bit further out on much higher volume (39% of Embiid's shots come from 10 to <3, making them at north of 50%, Jokic only gets 17% of that range and is a much worse shooter than Embiid from 16 to <3.)

Is it sustainable? We'll see. Shooting 54% from 16 to <3 is pretty incredible.
 

SteveF

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
2,063
Bad luck for the Bulls with Torrey Craig. Sprained plantar faschia and expected to miss 8-10 weeks and that probably takes it past the trade deadline. They couldn't have gotten a ton for him, but he's the kind of player teams will be looking for to solidify playoff depth.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,446
Bad luck for the Bulls with Torrey Craig. Sprained plantar faschia and expected to miss 8-10 weeks and that probably takes it past the trade deadline. They couldn't have gotten a ton for him, but he's the kind of player teams will be looking for to solidify playoff depth.
We're rooting for bad Bulls, to get a good 2nd rounder.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,313
Imaginationland
Yeah, c'mon Joel! Rub some dirt on it, ya sissy! We don't accept excuses like "my body is broken and I'm one of the largest humans on the planet" around here! You're 29, it's time to grow up and face the music. Just, ya know, apply yourself a little harder, and that will surely overcome the best efforts of better-quality teams with better coaching, plus your own injury.

I'm sure you said the same about Jayson Tatum when he sprained his ankle in the first minute of Game 7. That's no excuse, buddy! I expect you to get out there and make a difference, injury or not!
Of course not, but if Tatum sprained his ankle in the first quarter of game 7s for 6 straight years, followed by him playing well below his standards and the team losing every single time...I wouldn't blame him, but I wouldn't expect anything different, no matter how healthy his ankles look in December. Injuries are mostly luck, but there's a small preparation and effort component too it (maybe Mikal Bridges is just the luckiest guy since AC Green). Embiid has had conditioning issues his entire career, and he flops more often and more violently than anyone else in the league. Him breaking down at the end of the year has been who he is. It's not too late to change that, but it's not happening in December.

Embiid's playoff legacy so far is to prove that the old axiom that "the team with the best player usually wins the playoff series" is completely untrue.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
6,170
If true, that's pretty incredible. I think most nba fans would watch a zion weigh-in
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,924
He's LISTED at 284lbs, which might be generous, and the average body fat percentage for a man is between 18% and 24%. Even Zion was significantly below average, that would be a tough mark to hit.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,933
I'm a Sixers fan, so I'll say this---get your shots in now, but we'll see what's what if he's healthy come playoff time. He's got a great coach who has him playing his best and being judicious about his minutes, he's happy, and thus far, his teammates aren't providing the sort of drama some others in past years have. So, no excuses. His playoff reputation will be what it is until he proves otherwise.
I went back and looked at Embiid's shot from last game and it's pretty interesting. Embiid actually missed 6 of his first 8 shots so after that he went 15-17 against what was supposed to be the best defense in the league.

Of his 25 shots, 20 of them were either at the rim, in the lane, or in the area above the FT line. In other words, most of his shots were in the middle of the floor (he was 2-3 from the left elbow; 1-1 from the right elbow; and 0-1 from 3P). Basically what PHI was doing was getting the ball to Embiid in the middle of the floor; dropping the other four players below him so he can't be doubled from above; and Embiid was basically shooting over everyone - including Gorbert.

I saw one post touch (which ended in a dunk) and a couple of elbow touches but the majority of the baskets were Embiid shooting jumpers over whoever was defending him.

I guess Nurse and Embiid have figured out that the way Embiid shoots his jumper (high release; fading back a little bit), maybe the only human being that's going to bother him is Wemby, and well we know that he's kind of a unicorn. :)

Embiid is shooting 51.1% on 5.5 shots/game in the restricted area and 51.4% on 5.9 shots per game in the mid range. By comparison, Jokic is shooting 58.6% on 7.3 shots/game in the restricted area but only 49.2% on 2.3 shots per game in the mid range.

For you PHI fans, one big possibility is that Embiid operating from the foul line and shooting jump shots looks to be way less stressful on the body than wrestling with guys in the post. From a BOS point of view, Grant Williams would have no shot stopping Embiid operating at the FT line.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,865
Mavs fans losing patience with Grant, and posting shit like this.

View: https://twitter.com/IshaanBhatta/status/1737684584652050657


View attachment 75400
I don't know what to make of these posts. I can go through my socials and find a lot of these sorts of posts about current Celtics players, including some of the very same guys we are lauding here in this forum. Its essentially some rando who didn't get the outcome they wanted and are big mad at someone, right? I am looking at Grant's production including his DARKO etc and he is kind of is what he is. Is he really falling off a cliff defensively all of a sudden or did he just have a bad sequence or game?


That said, Grant Williams seems exactly the sort of person/player who is going to wear on people over time. Fans here wanted him gone and no doubt fans in Dallas will want him gone too at some point.
 

DavidTai

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
1,262
Herndon, VA
That said, Grant Williams seems exactly the sort of person/player who is going to wear on people over time. Fans here wanted him gone and no doubt fans in Dallas will want him gone too at some point.
Grant is what he is, a solid player whose limitations become more apparent when you ask him to do more than hes capable of (corner 3, physical defense). He's too short to defend bigs that can shoot over him, he doesn't really have any offensive versatility which means defense can sag off him and then chase him off the corner.

That said, Grant is coming off a recent right knee bruise injury which is making those limitations a lot more apparent, I believe.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,313
Imaginationland
Were people expecting GW to be able to guard KL one-on-one with no rim protection behind him?
Yeah it's a weird thing to pick on. He's a big wing that can hold his own sometimes against center sized guys, but he's not an all-defense level player (and even all defense level guys occasionally look bad against all star scorers).

I don't know what to make of these posts. I can go through my socials and find a lot of these sorts of posts about current Celtics players, including some of the very same guys we are lauding here in this forum. Its essentially some rando who didn't get the outcome they wanted and are big mad at someone, right? I am looking at Grant's production including his DARKO etc and he is kind of is what he is. Is he really falling off a cliff defensively all of a sudden or did he just have a bad sequence or game?


That said, Grant Williams seems exactly the sort of person/player who is going to wear on people over time. Fans here wanted him gone and no doubt fans in Dallas will want him gone too at some point.
I haven't seen enough of Dallas this year to say how his defense has looked, but he's going through a pretty long cold streak from 3. He started off red hot, but he's shooting .278 from 3 over the last 11 games. When he's not hitting from 3, all he's got is his defense to fall back on. He's a really good 7th or 8th man, it's not his fault that Dallas needs him to be their 3rd or 4th guy.
 

cheech13

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 5, 2006
1,610
25 straight losses for Detroit. My favorite part of their losing streak is they actually started the season 2-1.
If they don’t win one of the next two against Brooklyn they might not get another win until mid-January. The schedule turns brutal in January.
 

PRabbit

New Member
Apr 3, 2022
117
Regarding Embiid and his health/conditioning..

Would any 'superstar' center in, say, the past 30 years be able to play 35 mpg in an ever-increasing pace of game like it is today and have their bodies hold up? Robinson and Duncan I can see, maybe Mourning, but who else's cardio from 20-30 years ago do you see being good enough at their size to stay on the floor?

Guy just seems to me like he was born 30 years too late.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,924
Regarding Embiid and his health/conditioning..

Would any 'superstar' center in, say, the past 30 years be able to play 35 mpg in an ever-increasing pace of game like it is today and have their bodies hold up? Robinson and Duncan I can see, maybe Mourning, but who else's cardio from 20-30 years ago do you see being good enough at their size to stay on the floor?

Guy just seems to me like he was born 30 years too late.
That guy in Denver seems to hold up pretty well.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,491
Regarding Embiid and his health/conditioning..

Would any 'superstar' center in, say, the past 30 years be able to play 35 mpg in an ever-increasing pace of game like it is today and have their bodies hold up? Robinson and Duncan I can see, maybe Mourning, but who else's cardio from 20-30 years ago do you see being good enough at their size to stay on the floor?

Guy just seems to me like he was born 30 years too late.
I don't know how banged up Embiid has been in the playoffs but he's been plenty durable the past 3 seasons and his conditioning gets some weird criticisms due to his body language making it look like he ran 5 suicides before stepping to the line or how he lumbers while others glide especially when game is at a slower pace. The guy hasn't "gassed" at the end of games or on B2B's in forever....actually last year his numbers were up across the board on the second leg of B2B's. That isn't a guy who has conditioning issues.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,495
Santa Monica
He’s been so, so good. I’m legitimately shocked how good OKC has been And out of their top 7 in mpg, Shai is the oldest.
Thats scary.

Plus they have the draft assets to constantly ADD and upgrade their TOP8.

The Thunder will be a thorn in the Celtics' side for the next 5 seasons.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,623
around the way
Of course not, but if Tatum sprained his ankle in the first quarter of game 7s for 6 straight years, followed by him playing well below his standards and the team losing every single time...I wouldn't blame him, but I wouldn't expect anything different, no matter how healthy his ankles look in December. Injuries are mostly luck, but there's a small preparation and effort component too it (maybe Mikal Bridges is just the luckiest guy since AC Green). Embiid has had conditioning issues his entire career, and he flops more often and more violently than anyone else in the league. Him breaking down at the end of the year has been who he is. It's not too late to change that, but it's not happening in December.

Embiid's playoff legacy so far is to prove that the old axiom that "the team with the best player usually wins the playoff series" is completely untrue.
From what I remember, AC Green didn't get lucky very much.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,313
Imaginationland
Hah!

The sad thing about Detroit isn't that they are looking like one of the worst teams ever, or even that they'll be in the high lottery for the 5th straight year. 2008 ECF against Boston, Detroit won game 4, 94-75. Since that night, Boston has won 106 playoff games and Detroit has won...0. They've had 1 winning season over the last 15 years and three trips to the playoffs, all of which were first round sweeps. Not even Charlotte can claim this level of pathetic.

I don't know how banged up Embiid has been in the playoffs but he's been plenty durable the past 3 seasons and his conditioning gets some weird criticisms due to his body language making it look like he ran 5 suicides before stepping to the line or how he lumbers while others glide especially when game is at a slower pace. The guy hasn't "gassed" at the end of games or on B2B's in forever....actually last year his numbers were up across the board on the second leg of B2B's. That isn't a guy who has conditioning issues.
It's true that Embiid's conditioning seems to be less of an issue over the last couple years, but there is definitely something to his playoff issues. His scoring volume and efficiency take a real hit in the playoffs, despite never making it out of round 2 (meaning the competition would be more difficult in rounds 3 and 4). This has to be due to 1 or more of the following:

-General variance
-Wearing down over the course of the season
-Injury
-Fiercer competition

He's got 53 playoff games under his belt, so variance and injury (unless he's actually getting hurt every single year) would seem to be lesser factors.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,446
Thats scary.

Plus they have the draft assets to constantly ADD and upgrade their TOP8.

The Thunder will be a thorn in the Celtics' side for the next 5 seasons.
They hit very hard on Jalen Williams at #12 too. Sort of the anti-Wizards.

If OKC successfully goes big-game hunting, the league is in trouble.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,495
Santa Monica
Hah!

The sad thing about Detroit isn't that they are looking like one of the worst teams ever, or even that they'll be in the high lottery for the 5th straight year. 2008 ECF against Boston, Detroit won game 4, 94-75. Since that night, Boston has won 106 playoff games and Detroit has won...0. They've had 1 winning season over the last 15 years and three trips to the playoffs, all of which were first round sweeps. Not even Charlotte can claim this level of pathetic.
Good Piston recap. For those of us at a certain age, there is little sympathy

3+ years of Troy Weaver has driven Detroit basketball right into the ground. This is what you get when you commit multiple years of GM malpractice. Every one of his deals can be excused away (and has been by a few) but collectively it's a complete tire fire.

There was some odd Killian Hayes love around here this summer :eek:

They hit very hard on Jalen Williams at #12 too. Sort of the anti-Wizards.

If OKC successfully goes big-game hunting, the league is in trouble.
Agreed.

Hopefully, Presti doesn't start doing Brad/Zarren 1st round Heists on the league.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,495
Santa Monica
They hit very hard on Jalen Williams at #12 too. Sort of the anti-Wizards.

If OKC successfully goes big-game hunting, the league is in trouble.
If Danny says Markkanen's price tag is 4 Firsts, Presti could do that in a heartbeat with Bertans to match the $$$.

They can also be players for Mitchell, OG, Pascal, etc

If the Hawks spiral maybe local hero Trae Young would be a target?
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,446
If Danny says Markkanen's price tag is 4 Firsts, Presti could do that in a heartbeat with Bertans to match the $$$.

They can also be players for Mitchell, OG, Pascal, etc

If the Hawks spiral maybe local hero Trae Young would be a target?
No way they want Trae when they have Shai and Jalen.

OG would be great (big flight risk though, so probably not happening), as would Lauri.

The other guy who'd be a good fit for them is Jaylen Brown tbh, since OKC probably really values contract certainty. That could make sense down the road, if the Cs need to move him for budget or fit reasons, and there's a player Boston can get with OKC's picks who would re-sign in Boston, but not OKC. I know I'm all aboard the Jaylen train, but things change fast in the NBA, so always good to be prepared.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,933
Thats scary.

Plus they have the draft assets to constantly ADD and upgrade their TOP8.

The Thunder will be a thorn in the Celtics' side for the next 5 seasons.
The biggest issue OKC is going to have is who they are going to pay and who are they going to have to get rid of. I mean they've paid and will continue to pay SGA; I'm sure they will pay Chet. What do they do for the third max contract? Will they give it someone currently there or are they going to try to get someone?

Also, it looks like they have 4 1st round picks this year. There's no way they can make all of these picks - I mean they already have some potentially good players who aren't playing.

Will be interesting to see how Presti manages this.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,356
Pittsburgh, PA
The up-and-under self alley oop was nasty.
That got a gasp from me. Dude is effectively a rookie and is pulling that. That's like the guy (I forget who) who threw it off of Jrue Holiday's back so that he could get it again and take a better shot. Just high BBIQ plays that not even NBA vets are expecting.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,783
Saint Paul, MN
Also, it looks like they have 4 1st round picks this year. There's no way they can make all of these picks - I mean they already have some potentially good players who aren't playing.
I think they only have three, but likely only two.

Houston's first, top 4 protected. Extremely likely to be conveyed.
Clipper's unprotected first.
Utah's top 10 protected. Very unlikely to convey.

But they owe Indiana the least favorable of their own, and the above three.

So my guess is they get a Houston pick in the ~16 range, the Clipper pick in the early 20's, and their own pick in the late 20's goes to Indiana
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,495
Santa Monica
The biggest issue OKC is going to have is who they are going to pay and who are they going to have to get rid of. I mean they've paid and will continue to pay SGA; I'm sure they will pay Chet. What do they do for the third max contract? Will they give it someone currently there or are they going to try to get someone?

Also, it looks like they have 4 1st round picks this year. There's no way they can make all of these picks - I mean they already have some potentially good players who aren't playing.

Will be interesting to see how Presti manages this.
I'm expecting Presti will use their filler: Bertans ($17MM) + Micic ($7MM) + Poku($5MM)
+ a few FIRSTS by the trade deadline

Then something bigger this Summer.
 

Don Buddin's GS

Member
SoSH Member
Blazer rookie Toumani Camara out of my alma mater Dayton is providing tremendous value for the #52 pick in the draft. His ranking among #2 picks:

1st in Points
1st in Rebounds
1st in Assists
1st in Steals
1st in Blocks
1st in Win Shares

The other night he helped end Steph Curry's streak of 268 games with a made three with defense like this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ripcity/comments/18llhvf/watch_camaras_defense_on_steph
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,933
I think they only have three, but likely only two.

Houston's first, top 4 protected. Extremely likely to be conveyed.
Clipper's unprotected first.
Utah's top 10 protected. Very unlikely to convey.

But they owe Indiana the least favorable of their own, and the above three.

So my guess is they get a Houston pick in the ~16 range, the Clipper pick in the early 20's, and their own pick in the late 20's goes to Indiana
You're correct (per usual); I was reading too quickly.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,313
Imaginationland
That got a gasp from me. Dude is effectively a rookie and is pulling that. That's like the guy (I forget who) who threw it off of Jrue Holiday's back so that he could get it again and take a better shot. Just high BBIQ plays that not even NBA vets are expecting.
Josh Hart. Definitely a high IQ player, and also gave us this moment:

View: https://youtu.be/vdDqMz4vts4?si=j6mBw-rUIeox9rc_


Would love to be able to root for this guy at some point.
 

TrapperAB

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,142
West Hartford, CT
I’m watching Nuggets/Nets … we’re at the end of the third and Joker has 22-8-7.

It’s the most boring almost-triple-double ever (with 12 minutes to go).