2022 Patriots in-season news and moves thread

mwonow

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It is kind of odd that BB won't just say that Mac is the starter when he's healthy. This is the exact deflection he had during the Bledsoe injury and is in complete contrast to the questions about Cam "he's our starter".
BB just skipped his long time boss's wedding to finish prepping for a game against the Browns. Everything he does screams, "I care about winning the next game, period." If he thinks that the best path to that next W is keeping his own counsel - whether Mac will be there, or (much more likely) won't be - BB is going to keep his own counsel, I think...
 

Jungleland

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It's GM malpractice if Green Bay doesn't acquire a WR by the deadline. I can't say I think Agholor should be the first choice given that they already have a fast hurt* guy with bad hands in Christian Watson, but they desperately need more talent there.

LV is interesting - 2021 would make you think Renfrow is much more valuable than either Patriot mentioned above, but they really haven't gotten anything from him this year.

*yes I am aware their timelines for return are likely different
 

Shelterdog

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That’s so funny. I was about to start a thread in social teams (Jackie’s Kid and Friends was in play for the title) because there wasn’t an obvious on roster replacement for Davis. Well there you go
 

E5 Yaz

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Kyed answered a question in his mailbag today about possible trade chips.

As far as potential return, I consulted my buddy and PFF Wire co-host Brad Spielberger, because he’s better at that sort of stuff.
Here’s what he estimated:

Harris: fifth-round pick or less
Bourne: fifth-round pick and maybe a seventh-round pick, or Bourne plus a sixth-round pick for a fourth-round pick type of deal
Meyers: third-round pick
Parker: The Patriots traded a 2023 third-round pick for Parker plus a 2022 fifth-round pick. So, around that same amount or a little less
Agholor: They’ll struggle to get a seventh-round pick with his remaining salary. If New England eats his salary, then around a sixth-round pick
Peppers: Sixth- or seventh-round pick given injury history
Wynn: Third- or fourth-round pick to match a potential compensatory draft pick

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-news-mailbag-kadarius-toney-chiefs-trade-new-england-patriots-trade-interest-more
 

BigSoxFan

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Kyed answered a question in his mailbag today about possible trade chips.

As far as potential return, I consulted my buddy and PFF Wire co-host Brad Spielberger, because he’s better at that sort of stuff.
Here’s what he estimated:

Harris: fifth-round pick or less
Bourne: fifth-round pick and maybe a seventh-round pick, or Bourne plus a sixth-round pick for a fourth-round pick type of deal
Meyers: third-round pick
Parker: The Patriots traded a 2023 third-round pick for Parker plus a 2022 fifth-round pick. So, around that same amount or a little less
Agholor: They’ll struggle to get a seventh-round pick with his remaining salary. If New England eats his salary, then around a sixth-round pick
Peppers: Sixth- or seventh-round pick given injury history
Wynn: Third- or fourth-round pick to match a potential compensatory draft pick

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-news-mailbag-kadarius-toney-chiefs-trade-new-england-patriots-trade-interest-more
If we can get a 3rd or 4th for Wynn, I want that trade made yesterday, especially given that we may be spending in FA in 2023 due to the cap space and may never realize the comp pick.
 

Jungleland

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Funny how that list is essentially a long breakdown of trades I wouldn’t do, then a trade for Wynn that’s beyond a no brainer. Jakobi is a player I feel they’ll struggle to replace, I’d hold unless they’re planning to move on next year. Even then, his value just to figuring out what the QBs have strikes me as too high to let go.

I don’t see the point in trading Parker or Bourne - both those contracts look to be good values for 2023 and I have a hard time imagining the market for them will be much weaker in the offseason if Bill wants to move on.

If there’s another shoe to drop, I’d gladly take a 7th to free the Agholor cap space, but it sounds like that’s unlikely.
 

Dogman

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Isn't he saying Wynn's comp pick would be a 3rd or 4th so the team trading for him would receive that comp pick if they let him walk?
 

tims4wins

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Isn't he saying Wynn's comp pick would be a 3rd or 4th so the team trading for him would receive that comp pick if they let him walk?
I think he is saying if the Pats don't trade him, they'll receive a 3rd or 4th round comp pick when he walks anyway, so there is no point in trading him for anything less (although there is a timing factor at play here - a 5th in 2023 is probably equivalent to a 4th in 2024, right?).
 

Zedia

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I think he is saying if the Pats don't trade him, they'll receive a 3rd or 4th round comp pick when he walks anyway, so there is no point in trading him for anything less (although there is a timing factor at play here - a 5th in 2023 is probably equivalent to a 4th in 2024, right?).
But I think I also read Pats are unlikely to get comp picks (for cap reasons I don't understand).
 

Dogman

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I think he is saying if the Pats don't trade him, they'll receive a 3rd or 4th round comp pick when he walks anyway, so there is no point in trading him for anything less (although there is a timing factor at play here - a 5th in 2023 is probably equivalent to a 4th in 2024, right?).
Right, right. That makes sense. Regardless, if a team offers one of those picks the team must do it.
 

Shelterdog

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But I think I also read Pats are unlikely to get comp picks (for cap reasons I don't understand).
What are their departing free agents v. signed free agents? Agholor, old J. Jones, DMC, Wynn, Myers (who they almost certainly re-sign), Slater, Cody Davis, Carl Davis, Jabril Peppers, not sure who else. Hard to see that lot signing elsewhere in greater numbers or for better contracts than whatever the Pats bring in.
 

tims4wins

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What are their departing free agents v. signed free agents? Agholor, old J. Jones, DMC, Wynn, Myers (who they almost certainly re-sign), Slater, Cody Davis, Carl Davis, Jabril Peppers, not sure who else. Hard to see that lot signing elsewhere in greater numbers or for better contracts than whatever the Pats bring in.
But it’s the wrong timing. Wynn will be part of the following year’s calc.
 

Shelterdog

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But it’s the wrong timing. Wynn will be part of the following year’s calc.
Agreed. Now I honestly wouldn't be shocked if Wynn gets a number that stuns the board (3/20 or something) but not sure that gets that would qualify for a 2024 third or even a fourth.
 

Saints Rest

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The article did point out that should Taylor clear waivers, he could be re-signed to the Pats' PS.

I wonder if Vizcaino is signed to:
  1. provide depth should Folk get hurt;
  2. light a fire under Folk relative to two missed FGs;
  3. be a kick-off specialist;
  4. all of the above;
  5. none of the above.
 

joe dokes

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The article did point out that should Taylor clear waivers, he could be re-signed to the Pats' PS.

I wonder if Vizcaino is signed to:
  1. provide depth should Folk get hurt;
  2. light a fire under Folk relative to two missed FGs;
  3. be a kick-off specialist;
  4. all of the above;
  5. none of the above.
Certainly 1, maybe 3. Almost definitely not 2,4, or 5.
 

jsinger121

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I don’t get that signing at all. He’s a jag nothing more. What a waste of money.
 

Garshaparra

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I don’t get that signing at all. He’s a jag nothing more. What a waste of money.
He certainly looked overmatched in the preseason, but he's done some decent work with solid stops. PFF apparently has him ranked 21st among all LBs. $2M is also a little below average pay for LBs, and certainly below average for a starter, so it seems like an ok deal for both him and the team. It also keeps them from having to sign a guy for bigger bucks next year, potentially impacting compensatory picks down the road.
 

Shelterdog

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I don’t get that signing at all. He’s a jag nothing more. What a waste of money.
It always amazes me that every single NFL team has some vets who they pay 1-5 million bucks a year-- special teams guys, inside linebackers, interior offensive linemen, etc--and a high percentage of fans think that every single one of those signings is a waste of money and you should have a team where everyone is a pro bowler or on a minumum contract.
 
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Shelterdog

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You should spend even 30 minutes on Spotrac because, as Shelterdog notes, you don’t understand how NFL teams structure their player salaries.
I'll put it this way. I heard Bill Simmons say on a Mina Kimes podcast that it's pretty easy to put together a top NFL team--all you need to do is focus on your five or six things that matter, and get a top QB, top WR, top edge rusher, top LT, and "guys who can cover".

Putting aside that basically no squad since about the mid 90s Cowboys has had a top QB/WR/LT/DE/Corner, or that you'd have sixty percent of your cap tied up in five guys, it's probably notable that the Pats, the Ravens, the Steelers, Packers, Eagles, the Chiefs--every NFL organization that has some success over a protracted period of time in the past 25 years--values depth and has a reasonable number of ok players making ok money at a variety of positions.
 

Garshaparra

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I'll put it this way. I heard Bill Simmons say on a Mina Kimes podcast that it's pretty easy to put together a top NFL team--all you need to do is focus on your five or six things that matter, and get a top QB, top WR, top edge rusher, top LT, and "guys who can cover".

Putting aside that basically no squad since about the mid 90s Cowboys has had a top QB/WR/LT/DE/Corner, or that you'd have sixty percent of your cap tied up in five guys, it's probably notable that the Pats, the Ravens, the Steelers, Packers, Eagles, the Chiefs--every NFL organization that has some success over a protracted period of time in the past 25 years--values depth and has a reasonable number of ok players making ok money at a variety of positions.
Kansas City is extremely close to the Simmons model. True, their current top 5 doesn't include a top-paid WR, but their top TE in football does stir the offense's drink. Using cap cost figures:

Patrick Mahomes $35,793,381
Chris Jones $29,415,666
Orlando Brown $16,662,000
Frank Clark $13,286,111
Travis Kelce $8,400,000


...so that's QB, DT, LT, Edge and TE coming out to ~$104M, or just under 50% of the cap for 5 guys. Their 6th highest paid is Tuney for another $8M. Their WRs are mostly JAGs or pillow guys, but that offense mostly just keeps humming along.
 

wonderland

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Kansas City is extremely close to the Simmons model. True, their current top 5 doesn't include a top-paid WR, but their top TE in football does stir the offense's drink. Using cap cost figures:

Patrick Mahomes $35,793,381
Chris Jones $29,415,666
Orlando Brown $16,662,000
Frank Clark $13,286,111
Travis Kelce $8,400,000


...so that's QB, DT, LT, Edge and TE coming out to ~$104M, or just under 50% of the cap for 5 guys. Their 6th highest paid is Tuney for another $8M. Their WRs are mostly JAGs or pillow guys, but that offense mostly just keeps humming along.
It’s worth noting that KC traded their top receiver in the offseason because they saw that model of team building wasn’t sustainable. Look at the Rams this year.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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Judon restructured to free up money for this year.

Yates:The Patriots restructured the contract of OLB Matthew Judon, creating $2,214,445 in 2022 salary cap space, per source.

Reiss: The restructured contract for Matthew Judon provides the Patriots space to get through the rest of the season … and potentially to strike a modest-type extension with others on the roster when considering future planning (e.g. Jahlani Tavai).
 
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Garshaparra

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It’s worth noting that KC traded their top receiver in the offseason because they saw that model of team building wasn’t sustainable. Look at the Rams this year.
Oh no question, I don't agree with the Simmons template at all for long-term success. If KC had traded Kelce instead, we'd have pretty much the exact template cited by Simmons, but basically no breathing room at all for other players. That's why I'm fascinated by this year's KC run. Instead, they traded the younger Hill for both picks and space, and the older Kelce remains all-world TE and has lapped his teammates with 12 TDs. Next best count of receiving TDs is 4, and you probably couldn't guess which WR has that (it's Mecole Hardman). When Kelce finally hits a wall, we'll really get to see what Mahomes is made of. I expect he'll still be great, but not on this exceptional run.

Incidentally, this is also why Buffalo absolutely must win this year. Next year's cap absolutely kills them. They go from their top 5 guys taking up 31.5% of their cap this season to their top 5 taking up 50.4% (right in the Simmons wheelhouse: QB, WR, Edge, CB, LT). Even worse, their top 10 costs a staggering 75.6% of their cap number, with very few whose cap relief via cut makes sense. They're over the cap by a sizable margin, with only 37 players under contract.
 

steveluck7

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Can’t find a link yet (other than a tweet from the Zolak and Bertrand show account)but Zolak just said he’s hearing that the game in Vegas will be flexed to 4:25
 

DJnVa

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The NFL put Giants/Commanders in it's place. Sad state of affairs that Daniel Jones vs. Taylor Heinicke is a more favorable matchup. (It's also 2 major media markets which is the real reason.)
I will brook no Heinicke slander!!
 

Red Averages

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The NFL put Giants/Commanders in it's place. Sad state of affairs that Daniel Jones vs. Taylor Heinicke is a more favorable matchup. (It's also 2 major media markets which is the real reason.)
Yeah. Also the Patriots have played two Thursday night and a Monday Night Football game before this one. Similarly the Raiders are playing Thursday night in the upcoming week. So a lot of prime time recently for these two teams as is, before you even get into if it’s a good game or not.
 

jsinger121

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I loath prime time games, so I’m cheering this news. Couldn’t care less about whatever ding to the Pats prestige it represents.
Losing out brings two things. A higher draft pick which is desperately needed along with a minimum number of Primetime games. Probably just a Thursday and Monday. It would also probably lead to Hard Knocks for the Patriots.
 

Remagellan

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Yeah. Also the Patriots have played two Thursday night and a Monday Night Football game before this one. Similarly the Raiders are playing Thursday night in the upcoming week. So a lot of prime time recently for these two teams as is, before you even get into if it’s a good game or not.
They are both games with big playoff implications, but I agree this is the result of bad scheduling in the first place. Somebody needed to look at that TV schedule and realize that it might be a good idea to mix it up a bit.