2022-23 NBA Game Thread

Cellar-Door

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Cool that Fox has got some help, but he should get most of the credit. He has really leveled up as a scorer in the early going. His efficiency so far this year is absolutely insane. 55.5% from the field! 40% from three! Plus five free throws a game. Like it helps to have a lot of good roleplayers, but this team isn't winning games because he finally got the right mix of roleplayers in castoffs like Barnes, Huerter, and Sabonis (who are all pretty good players, don't get me wrong!). They're winning because he's a human fucking torch.
He's been really good, but I think this is too far, I'm not even sure he's the best player on that team, Sabonis might be... he's scoring well, but more importantly crushing the boards, passing like a defacto PG and he's by far their best defender (which helps Fox most because he isn't very good on that end). Huerter has also been huge, he's shooting 50% from 3 on 7.5 attempts per game and changing the offense. Fox will likely cool down some (as will Huerter) but it's really the other guys who make this a more viable team than in years past.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Pat Beverly remains the same dirty piece of shit that shoved Chris Paul in the back a few years ago.
Pat Bev is like the opposite extreme of the usual trope that all NBA fights are "hold me back" affairs. This guy doesn't just trash talk and throw a shove, he turns it up to 11 on some actions that would draw an ejection from a FOOTBALL game. We need some middle ground like NHL-style one on one fights.
 

Kliq

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He's been really good, but I think this is too far, I'm not even sure he's the best player on that team, Sabonis might be... he's scoring well, but more importantly crushing the boards, passing like a defacto PG and he's by far their best defender (which helps Fox most because he isn't very good on that end). Huerter has also been huge, he's shooting 50% from 3 on 7.5 attempts per game and changing the offense. Fox will likely cool down some (as will Huerter) but it's really the other guys who make this a more viable team than in years past.
Would you trade Fox for Simmons if you were Sacramento?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Cool that Fox has got some help, but he should get most of the credit. He has really leveled up as a scorer in the early going. His efficiency so far this year is absolutely insane. 55.5% from the field! 40% from three! Plus five free throws a game. Like it helps to have a lot of good roleplayers, but this team isn't winning games because he finally got the right mix of roleplayers in castoffs like Barnes, Huerter, and Sabonis (who are all pretty good players, don't get me wrong!). They're winning because he's a human fucking torch.
This began in the offseason for Fox. My eye test says he dropped 15 lbs or so from last year. He’s now lean like he was when he entered the league and it’s apparent he’s put the work in. Having said that, Huerter is a great running mate, Sabonis an enormous upgrade over Holmes and Murray hs stepped right in as a quality starter. Things are certainly looking up for this team but between tonight and Sunday I expect them to take a beating in one of them.
 

Euclis20

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Pat Bev is like the opposite extreme of the usual trope that all NBA fights are "hold me back" affairs. This guy doesn't just trash talk and throw a shove, he turns it up to 11 on some actions that would draw an ejection from a FOOTBALL game. We need some middle ground like NHL-style one on one fights.

Maybe, but this is an all-time quote from Booker (start around 40 seconds):

View: https://youtu.be/GB2xSN11-T8


The sooner guys like Beverly are out of the league, the better for everyone.
 

Jimbodandy

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He's been really good, but I think this is too far, I'm not even sure he's the best player on that team, Sabonis might be... he's scoring well, but more importantly crushing the boards, passing like a defacto PG and he's by far their best defender (which helps Fox most because he isn't very good on that end). Huerter has also been huge, he's shooting 50% from 3 on 7.5 attempts per game and changing the offense. Fox will likely cool down some (as will Huerter) but it's really the other guys who make this a more viable team than in years past.
DARKO agrees. Fox's recent run basically puts him in the Sabonis class of impact...but it's a pretty small sample. (Highlighted recent spikes)

And yes, the defense is clearly the differentiator. Fox's defense is terrible, not just bad.

58011
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He's been really good, but I think this is too far, I'm not even sure he's the best player on that team, Sabonis might be... he's scoring well, but more importantly crushing the boards, passing like a defacto PG and he's by far their best defender (which helps Fox most because he isn't very good on that end). Huerter has also been huge, he's shooting 50% from 3 on 7.5 attempts per game and changing the offense. Fox will likely cool down some (as will Huerter) but it's really the other guys who make this a more viable team than in years past.
Lowe spoke with Matt Barnes on the podcast the other day and said that a lot of the Kings' success is because (1) Fox is starting to play defense but (2) they play offense really fast and when Fox and Sabonis are passing to shooters, the offense really hums. https://podcasts.apple.com/si/podcast/warriors-trade-options-and-the-red-hot-kings/id986595124?i=1000586618134

Fun stat from that podcast: Kings are averaging 1.22 points per possession on every Sabonis post-up.

It will be interesting to see if the Cs' defense holds up.
 

HomeRunBaker

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DARKO agrees. Fox's recent run basically puts him in the Sabonis class of impact...but it's a pretty small sample. (Highlighted recent spikes)

And yes, the defense is clearly the differentiator. Fox's defense is terrible, not just bad.
I am pretty certain that the metrics are getting Fox’s defense wrong here. The Kings play at a high pace and rely heavily on the 3-pt shot. Fox is often defending in transition with opponents PG coming downhill at him.

I’ve seen a ton of Kings this year and his defense in the half court has been overall pretty good. Not having a rim protector along with Huerter and a rookie as his wings play against their team defense in a large way.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I am pretty certain that the metrics are getting Fox’s defense wrong here. The Kings play at a high pace and rely heavily on the 3-pt shot. Fox is often defending in transition with opponents PG coming downhill at him.

I’ve seen a ton of Kings this year and his defense in the half court has been overall pretty good. Not having a rim protector along with Huerter and a rookie as his wings play against their team defense in a large way.
I have caught a few Kings games as well and I think this is a fair assessment.

The advanced defensive metrics feel like they skew too negatively for a given player but maybe not. I also question their value this time of year given the relatively small sample size - but from what I've seen in the past, Fox did play lazy defense. That was likely the function of a number of things including motivation, teammates and coaching.

In short, he seems to be playing credible defense this year under Brown (not including tonight's loss in the ATL where they got torched by Trae - nice call on this being a trap for the Kings btw) but wasn't good before.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I have caught a few Kings games as well and I think this is a fair assessment.

The advanced defensive metrics feel like they skew too negatively for a given player but maybe not. I also question their value this time of year given the relatively small sample size - but from what I've seen in the past, Fox did play lazy defense. That was likely the function of a number of things including motivation, teammates and coaching.

In short, he seems to be playing credible defense this year under Brown (not including tonight's loss in the ATL where they got torched by Trae - nice call on this being a trap for the Kings btw) but wasn't good before.
Yes, it is isn’t easy to motivate oneself to bust your butt defensively on a losing team with a losing culture over 82 games…..pretty near impossible actually. It’s been clear to me that this years version of Fox, both in his conditioning and his effort, are night and day from last year.
 

Jimbodandy

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I am pretty certain that the metrics are getting Fox’s defense wrong here. The Kings play at a high pace and rely heavily on the 3-pt shot. Fox is often defending in transition with opponents PG coming downhill at him.

I’ve seen a ton of Kings this year and his defense in the half court has been overall pretty good. Not having a rim protector along with Huerter and a rookie as his wings play against their team defense in a large way.
He has been bad for a couple hundred games defensively by DARKO. That team also being bad for that long wouldn't be a shock, and maybe even DPM doesn't regress enough. But it's not a new phenomenon.
 

jmcc5400

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Top 6 Western Conference team separated by 1 game. Top 9 by 1.5. Warriors 11th, but just 3 games from the 1 seed. Crazy.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Steph and the Joker are locked in a battle of absurd net on-off ratings…

Jokic +26.7
Curry +30.0

Obviously, part of this is that both teams’ benches have been atrocious.
 

Kliq

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If he was on a more glamourous team people would be raving more about him, but how great has Ben Mathurin been so far this year? 20 ppg, shooting 45\3% from three, all games coming off the bench. He is smoking hot right now and looks like a huge win as the #6 overall pick in last year's draft.

The Pacers in general are a low-profile team that are having a good season. They are 11-7 and taking a ton of threes, hitting them at a decent 37% rate, giving them the 7th best offense in the league. Haliburton would have to be an All-Star if the game was today, 20-11 with an eFG% of 57%. Myles Turner has been a complete monster on both ends of the floor after missing the first few games of the season, shooting 45% from three and averaging 18 ppg and nearly 3 blocks per game. Mathurin has been great, and Buddy Hield has given them more scoring and shooting. Fun team, really overachieving given their O/U this season was 24.5. A well done job by Rick Carlisle.
 

Jimbodandy

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If he was on a more glamourous team people would be raving more about him, but how great has Ben Mathurin been so far this year? 20 ppg, shooting 45\3% from three, all games coming off the bench. He is smoking hot right now and looks like a huge win as the #6 overall pick in last year's draft.

The Pacers in general are a low-profile team that are having a good season. They are 11-7 and taking a ton of threes, hitting them at a decent 37% rate, giving them the 7th best offense in the league. Haliburton would have to be an All-Star if the game was today, 20-11 with an eFG% of 57%. Myles Turner has been a complete monster on both ends of the floor after missing the first few games of the season, shooting 45% from three and averaging 18 ppg and nearly 3 blocks per game. Mathurin has been great, and Buddy Hield has given them more scoring and shooting. Fun team, really overachieving given their O/U this season was 24.5. A well done job by Rick Carlisle.
It's honestly funny how much better both Sacramento and Indiana are, since they solved the weird roster issues that they both had. Of course they made other changes besides that trade, and many things factor into it (internal growth from Haliburton, for example). But weird how having two point guards or two centers is worse than having one of each.
 

Kliq

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Yeah, I was going to say that the Haliburton/Sabonis trade, which is kind of an atypical trade in the NBA, has really worked out for both parties so far.
 

Caspir

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Does Lebron always play like he’s got a dinner reservation to get to now? He looks completely uninterested
 

DGreenwood

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Ayton had 29 pts and 21 boards today. That's a line you don't see every day. I did a double take at the box score to make sure I was reading it right.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Does Lebron always play like he’s got a dinner reservation to get to now? He looks completely uninterested
I read this and went to the box score to expect 21/8/5 on 6-19 shooting…….not 39/11 with 7 three’s. Guy is still incredible. He has another 5+ years in him if he chooses.
 

ElUno20

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I read this and went to the box score to expect 21/8/5 on 6-19 shooting…….not 39/11 with 7 three’s. Guy is still incredible. He has another 5+ years in him if he chooses.
5 years? Probably but he has looked really slow and old to start the year. His 2 week vacation might change that going forward but you cant look at the stats with him. He's had no bounce, burst or fire. It's been a bit alarming.

It was nice to see him have that dunk last night and the lob today. Hope that a sign of things to come.
 

HomeRunBaker

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5 years? Probably but he has looked really slow and old to start the year. His 2 week vacation might change that going forward but you cant look at the stats with him. He's had no bounce, burst or fire. It's been a bit alarming.

It was nice to see him have that dunk last night and the lob today. Hope that a sign of things to come.
That’s kinda my point. He has no bounce, no burst, looks slow and old……drops a 39/11. He can age well bc he’s so smart he doesn’t need to be the fastest or most athletic on the floor.
 

Jimbodandy

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That’s kinda my point. He has no bounce, no burst, looks slow and old……drops a 39/11. He can age well bc he’s so smart he doesn’t need to be the fastest or most athletic on the floor.
Facts. He can legit play a big and impact the game when he slows even a little more. This isn't like a little guy slowing down. He's smart, tall, beefy. He's not going anywhere for a while.
 

Caspir

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I read this and went to the box score to expect 21/8/5 on 6-19 shooting…….not 39/11 with 7 three’s. Guy is still incredible. He has another 5+ years in him if he chooses.
I probably should’ve waited until after the first ten minutes lol It surprised me because he bricked a shot then gave the most half assed effort as someone drained a 3 in his face that it had me a little out over my skis. I love watching him play.
 
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SteveF

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Zubac has 31 points and 29 rebounds (14-17 from the field, so those aren't Kanter, tip-miss-tip-miss-score rebounds).
 

HomeRunBaker

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Zubac has 31 points and 29 rebounds (14-17 from the field, so those aren't Kanter, tip-miss-tip-miss-score rebounds).
Such a distracting headline to overshadow the true star of the game. I’d go with…..

“Pacers fall despite A-Aron Nesmith tallying as many points and assists as he did personal fouls during his 23 minutes of 1-7 sharpshooting including 0-3 from beyond the arc.”
 

PedroKsBambino

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Word. Spurs stink but the KING is nowhere close to being washed

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrcWTJOXQ5c
Agreed, he might become more of a 4 (possibly even a 5) than he even is now, but he can play a lot longer given his smarts and how well he has maintained his body. He's really amazing, and I wouldn't rule out that he extends several more years---not just because of Bronnie but because longevity is a place he can top MJ
 

SteveF

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LeBron is a 4 on defense for sure. I haven't seen what he looks like on defense these days, but last season he was pretty lazy. He wouldn't close out, stunt, or dig down hardly at all.
 

koufax32

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Not sure where else to put this, but I’m watching the Celtics tonight on League Pass and an ad just came up that it’s now 50% off less than a quarter of the way into the season.

I wanted to pass this along to anyone thinking of paying for it as well as to be a reminder to myself for next season.
 

Euclis20

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Such a distracting headline to overshadow the true star of the game. I’d go with…..

“Pacers fall despite A-Aron Nesmith tallying as many points and assists as he did personal fouls during his 23 minutes of 1-7 sharpshooting including 0-3 from beyond the arc.”
I haven't watched much of the Pacers this year, how on earth is Nesmith getting starts over Mathurin?
 

HomeRunBaker

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I haven't watched much of the Pacers this year, how on earth is Nesmith getting starts over Mathurin?
I think it’s pretty comical that Nesmith is getting NBA starts but I love how the Pacers are bringing Mathurin along off the bench. There is something to making a young player earn his minutes and earn his spot in the starting lineup. These kids enter the league entitled enough as it is…..this is a great wake up call to force them to pay attention to detail while creating good work habits if they want that starting job.

Someone like Keegan Murray or Jabari Smith are more likely to become complacent over 82 games and into next summer than Mathurin or Sharpe. Young players in general need that carrot in front of them to keep that foot on the learning gas.
 

ElUno20

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I think it’s pretty comical that Nesmith is getting NBA starts but I love how the Pacers are bringing Mathurin along off the bench. There is something to making a young player earn his minutes and earn his spot in the starting lineup. These kids enter the league entitled enough as it is…..this is a great wake up call to force them to pay attention to detail while creating good work habits if they want that starting job.

Someone like Keegan Murray or Jabari Smith are more likely to become complacent over 82 games and into next summer than Mathurin or Sharpe. Young players in general need that carrot in front of them to keep that foot on the learning gas.
I got to watch them live today. They have talent, I'm confused as to what the hell Rick Carlisle is doing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I got to watch them live today. They have talent, I'm confused as to what the hell Rick Carlisle is doing.
How much talent do they really have? Turner is pretty good but Hield is one-dimensional and at his best against second units as he’s limited. Their best talents are Haliburton and Mathurin who entered the year with a combined 135 NBA games…..all of them belonging to Tyrese. Historically, teams led by such young players do not win many games.

The rest of their roster is pretty crappy yet somehow Carlisle has them 11-7 and behind only Mazzulla and Hardy in Coach of the Year odds.
 

Jimbodandy

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How much talent do they really have? Turner is pretty good but Hield is one-dimensional and at his best against second units as he’s limited. Their best talents are Haliburton and Mathurin who entered the year with a combined 135 NBA games…..all of them belonging to Tyrese. Historically, teams led by such young players do not win many games.

The rest of their roster is pretty crappy yet somehow Carlisle has them 11-7 and behind only Mazzulla and Hardy in Coach of the Year odds.
According to DARKO, Indiana has three players who are currently positive players (Haliburton 1.5, Turner 0.9, and Isaiah Jackson 0.2). Hield scores at exactly 0.0. Everyone else on the team is a negative impact player, including Mathurin who is on such an incline of a pace that he'll almost certainly be scored as a positive player soon. Most of their team is JAGs. I had to look up Isaiah Jackson, and he's one of their better players.

Turner isn't getting any better. Sky's the limit for Haliburton of course. But Carlisle has absolutely earned his money.
 

ElUno20

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How much talent do they really have? Turner is pretty good but Hield is one-dimensional and at his best against second units as he’s limited. Their best talents are Haliburton and Mathurin who entered the year with a combined 135 NBA games…..all of them belonging to Tyrese. Historically, teams led by such young players do not win many games.

The rest of their roster is pretty crappy yet somehow Carlisle has them 11-7 and behind only Mazzulla and Hardy in Coach of the Year odds.
Hali
Mathurin
Turner/heild may both be one dimensional but they're decent
And Jalen Smith is a walking skyscraper who feels so untapped.

They are top 10 in pace so maybe i caught them on a bad day but they run way too many sets with the type of players they have. Also hated watching Mathurin being put in the scraps and stand around role.
 

lovegtm

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Such a distracting headline to overshadow the true star of the game. I’d go with…..

“Pacers fall despite A-Aron Nesmith tallying as many points and assists as he did personal fouls during his 23 minutes of 1-7 sharpshooting including 0-3 from beyond the arc.”
Aaron turned Brad off the idea of 1st round picks forever.
 

HomeRunBaker

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According to DARKO, Indiana has three players who are currently positive players (Haliburton 1.5, Turner 0.9, and Isaiah Jackson 0.2). Hield scores at exactly 0.0. Everyone else on the team is a negative impact player, including Mathurin who is on such an incline of a pace that he'll almost certainly be scored as a positive player soon. Most of their team is JAGs. I had to look up Isaiah Jackson, and he's one of their better players.

Turner isn't getting any better. Sky's the limit for Haliburton of course. But Carlisle has absolutely earned his money.
Jackson probably gets graded well due to being a backup energy defensive big on that second unit playing against players who aren’t good scorers (the ole Chuck Hayes analytical trick). He has zero offensive game and probably can’t play much with the first unit due to being physically pushed around. Coming out of UK I always thought I was watching a poor man’s Nerlens Noel. I like what he does defensively but I’d stop very short of calling him a good NBA player at this stage. I’d say he’s a shining example of Carlisle’s coaching to maximize a players limited skill without being overexposed.

He’s got some upside as bigs take time to develop and Jackson definitely has the athleticism upside to grow ball skills into his physical gifts…..but if he were on our team this year there is a good chance he’s playing behind Kornet.
 

Imbricus

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Aaron turned Brad off the idea of 1st round picks forever.
And Nesmith is 31% from three this year vs. 31.7% for his career. So apparently it wasn't a lack of playing time.

I always harbored a quiet fear that Nesmith's partial, truncated-college-season display of lights-out shooting from three was fool's gold, and that Danny and Co. were taking a big chance on him. That whole "one of the best shooters in the draft" meme seems to have been leveraged on one injury-shortened season (and he does have good form).