2020 Pats: Cam Can't Cook

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Watching these past few weeks, its apparent that the Patriots getting Newton wasn't some stroke of NE luck (ha!). The physical pounding that Newton has endured over his career has taken a toll. He looked great early on but then he started getting hit again. Now its fairly evident that he just isn't right. To be fair, he also has virtually no real weapons at his disposal but his issues seem injury related.

I would be surprised if any team offers any sort of value for him but someone does, it feels like the move all things considered.
 

BigSoxFan

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Watching these past few weeks, its apparent that the Patriots getting Newton wasn't some stroke of NE luck (ha!). The physical pounding that Newton has endured over his career has taken a toll. He looked great early on but then he started getting hit again. Now its fairly evident that he just isn't right. To be fair, he also has virtually no real weapons at his disposal but his issues seem injury related.

I would be surprised if any team offers any sort of value for him but someone does, it feels like the move all things considered.
Physical issues definitely there. Hard part is knowing how the physical is impacting the mental. Like, on the last play, he doesn’t even try to secure the ball with 2 hands despite going into a crowd of tacklers. The mental game has left him and when you combine with the physical decline, you’re left with a bad football player. I would be surprised if he ever regularly starts another game after this year.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It's way too late to be this coherent
And you're way too coherent to be late...or something.

Cam is cooked. Tank for Trevor and play the odds that the virus continues to impact the season and/or Lawrence tries to leverage his way away from the Jets.
 

RedOctober3829

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And you're way too coherent to be late...or something.

Cam is cooked. Tank for Trevor and play the odds that the virus continues to impact the season and/or Lawrence tries to leverage his way away from the Jets.
Cam looked much like the pre-Covid Cam in the 2nd half yesterday. If they can get that kind of production both passing and running obviously minus the fumble, I think they should sign him.
 

BaseballJones

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The Patriots have played 7 games this year. They have *THREE* touchdown passes on the season.

Three.

The team's QB passer rating combined (Cam, Stid, Hoyer) is a ghastly 67.0.

We thought it might be bad. But...that is....unfathomably bad. To give you some idea, that would have put this New England team in the bottom half of all team's passer ratings... in *1970*.

They're on pace for 3,072 yards, 7 touchdowns, and 25 interceptions.

Different team, different weapons, but Tom Brady right now is on pace for 4,365 yards, 41 touchdowns, and just 9 interceptions.
 

rodderick

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Out of 33 qualified QBs, Cam ranks 29th in ANY/A, 30th in passer rating and 30th in QBR. The weapons around him are the worst in football, but he's been bad as a quarterback up to this point. This is a 31 year old former MVP, I think way too many people are talking about Cam as if he were a rookie or something. I love the guy and he's in a bad situation for any QB to succeed in, as we saw with Brady last year, but nothing he's done on the field so far makes me want to keep him in the team going forward.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I think they should sign him.
Oh lord no. In today's NFL you have to be able to push the ball down the field and Cam can barely throw the ball 15 yards. He's also a turnover machine- we know what BB thinks about those- which probably isn't going to improve much at all because he takes about 3.5 seconds to wind up and release the ball and by then everyone in the stadium including the cardboard cut-outs can tell where it's going. He'll be holding clipboards or retired next year.
 

lexrageorge

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Cam Newton's 2nd half production, since it was mentioned: 8-12 passing with a sack for 72 net yards. And 13 of those yards was on a 3rd-and-19. He was better running: 4 rushes for 31 yards and, of course, a fumble.

Maybe he'll come around, and it's true the weather was a big factor yesterday as well. But it seems less and less likely as the weeks go by.
 

Kliq

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Cam's situation isn't that complicated. He is a player that at one point had fabulous physical talent, but never grasped the game at the level similar to elite QBs. I don't say that lightly because I am sensitive to the long and unjust stereotypes that black quarterbacks have faced; but Cam just doesn't mentally seem to have a strong enough grasp on the game to make up for his now physical shortcomings. Athletically, he is probably the most gifted person to ever play the position; enormous, fast, cannon of an arm, agile; and that allowed him to become a star despite the fact that he was often slow going through his reads, wasn't always accurate (due to poor mechanics) and was careless with the ball. He was so athletic and had such a great arm that he was able to achieve elite production for stretches at a time, but his bugaboo has always been inconsistency and mental mistakes. Now that his physical skills have diminished due to injuries and age, his mental mistakes are becoming more obvious and costly. The fumble yesterday was Cam in a nutshell; you just can't be a veteran QB in the league and lack that kind of situational awareness. You have to understand that ball security is priority #1; he isn't a rookie, he has played in a million games. This is who he is.

All of that being said, Newton still gives this team the best chance to win. He's still a talented runner, and most importantly his dynamism from the QB position with his legs, and that really helps the run game. Passing the ball is always going to be an adventure, but yesterday he did okay, throwing to a bunch of practice squad players and seemed to develop a pretty decent rhythm with Meyers. I don't think much of Stidham at all; I'm not sure we should even bother seeing what we have there because I feel like I have seen enough. The future of this team at the QB position is not currently on the roster. If the Patriots are still trying to win games, they should stick with Cam.
 
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BaseballJones

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What would be super interesting would be to keep Cam as a backup (if he was willing). You bring him in like when NO uses Hill. He becomes a ridiculously great wildcat (or direct snap, whichever you want to call it) option, and it's not like he's utterly incapable of throwing a pass. In other words, it's not like direct snapping to Ezekiel Elliott. He would be a nice change-of-pace guy to throw in there, giving you an extra threat, and, if your starter goes down, he's probably not the worst guy you could have as a backup.

I wonder if Cam would like to continue in the NFL if that was his role. Because it probably would be an ideal fit for him.
 

OurF'ingCity

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What would be super interesting would be to keep Cam as a backup (if he was willing). You bring him in like when NO uses Hill. He becomes a ridiculously great wildcat (or direct snap, whichever you want to call it) option, and it's not like he's utterly incapable of throwing a pass. In other words, it's not like direct snapping to Ezekiel Elliott. He would be a nice change-of-pace guy to throw in there, giving you an extra threat, and, if your starter goes down, he's probably not the worst guy you could have as a backup.

I wonder if Cam would like to continue in the NFL if that was his role. Because it probably would be an ideal fit for him.
Yeah, there’s long been the notion of a “goal line running back” but Cam strikes me as someone who’d be a great “goal line QB” (the “goal line” moniker obviously also includes short-yardage downs or other obvious running situations where you want an RPO/option type component to keep the D guessing).
 

reggiecleveland

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Yeah, there’s long been the notion of a “goal line running back” but Cam strikes me as someone who’d be a great “goal line QB” (the “goal line” moniker obviously also includes short-yardage downs or other obvious running situations where you want an RPO/option type component to keep the D guessing).
Except the D can load up to stop the run and the QB has to change the play to a pass.
 

mauf

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Out of 33 qualified QBs, Cam ranks 29th in ANY/A, 30th in passer rating and 30th in QBR. The weapons around him are the worst in football, but he's been bad as a quarterback up to this point. This is a 31 year old former MVP, I think way too many people are talking about Cam as if he were a rookie or something. I love the guy and he's in a bad situation for any QB to succeed in, as we saw with Brady last year, but nothing he's done on the field so far makes me want to keep him in the team going forward.
QB stats give short shrift to what a running QB brings to the offense, but Cam’s stats are in the same neighborhood as guys like Sam Darnold or Carson Wentz. So while Cam is better than those guys, he’s not good enough to make the Patriots a good team.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I'm not ready to say that Cam Newtons body is broken.

I am willing to say his mechanics are fucking disgusting. I, without hyperbole, cant remember the last throw he stepped into. Every throw is either flat-footed with his chest facing the field (opposed to his non-throwing shoulder), or hes throwing off his back foot.

Maybe hes petrified to step into throws and getting hit. Maybe his foot is fucked up. Maybe he just doesnt think he needs proper mechanics like every other QB in the NFL. But it's not difficult to see why his throws are weak and inaccurate.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Cam looked much like the pre-Covid Cam in the 2nd half yesterday. If they can get that kind of production both passing and running obviously minus the fumble, I think they should sign him.
This is how I feel right now. I'm really encouraged by the 2nd half showing by Cam, despite the fumble. The OL sprung Harris loose several times too.

If Newton can remain at the 2nd half level, nevermind the pre-Covid one, I'd be fine bringing him back on a decent contract.
 

gryoung

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I really don’t understand the opinions that state “ I’ve seen enough of Stidham to know ......”. How much of Stidham have we really seen? I know I’ve only seen a little preseason last season and spot appearances during the regular season.

I’d like for Belichik to declare the Cam experiment over - trade/cut him, make Stidham the #1 and let him run with the first team in practice. Play Harris, the rookie TE’s, and Stidham for the rest of the season. Let’s see what we have there, or don’t. Nothing at all to lose.
 

DJnVa

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I really don’t understand the opinions that state “ I’ve seen enough of Stidham to know ......”. How much of Stidham have we really seen? I know I’ve only seen a little preseason last season and spot appearances during the regular season.

I’d like for Belichik to declare the Cam experiment over - trade/cut him, make Stidham the #1 and let him run with the first team in practice. Play Harris, the rookie TE’s, and Stidham for the rest of the season. Let’s see what we have there, or don’t. Nothing at all to lose.
Of course, BB has seen a lot of him and has decided NOT to do that.
 

Captaincoop

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Apparently so. Still, I'd find the rest of the season much more fun to watch with the Stidham and the other kids approach as opposed to the Cam alternative.
If he's as bad as it appears, the novelty would wear off quickly.

You also kind of have to play Cam until you're 100% sure you're done with him. It's hard to see him seamlessly easing in and out of the lineup while you try out Stidham.
 

BaseballJones

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Adding passing, rushing, and sacks, a comparison between Brady and Cam...

Cam:
- 191 pass att, 69 rushes, 12 sacks
- 1,417 passing, 314 rushing, -66 in sacks
- 2 td passes, 8 td rushes, 7 interceptions, 3 fumbles

So: 272 plays, 1,665 yards, 6.12 yds per play, 10 touchdowns, 10 int/fum

Brady:
- 346 pass att, 6 rushes, 13 sacks
- 2,398 passing, 2 rushing, -86 in sacks
- 20 td passes, 7 interceptions, 4 fumbles

So: 365 plays, 2,314 yards, 6.34 yds per play, 20 touchdowns, 11 int/fum

Brady's been better, but this is actually closer than I would have thought. And Cam had one game where he just came off the Covid list, having not practiced for two weeks.
 

Garshaparra

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The recent bed-shitting by Brady against New Orleans skews the numbers, with Brady throwing 3 INTs and Cam none this week. Cam's mechanics (no shoulder turn, happy feet) continue to be a really serious problem.
 

DJnVa

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The recent bed-shitting by Brady against New Orleans skews the numbers, with Brady throwing 3 INTs and Cam none this week. Cam's mechanics (no shoulder turn, happy feet) continue to be a really serious problem.
Yes, bad games skews the results. Because that's what results are.

Cam is completing nearly 69% of his passes and has a higher yards/completion than dudes like Brees and Roethlisberger.

But, we can't count his good games because they skew stuff.
 
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54thMA

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Adding passing, rushing, and sacks, a comparison between Brady and Cam...

Cam:
- 191 pass att, 69 rushes, 12 sacks
- 1,417 passing, 314 rushing, -66 in sacks
- 2 td passes, 8 td rushes, 7 interceptions, 3 fumbles

So: 272 plays, 1,665 yards, 6.12 yds per play, 10 touchdowns, 10 int/fum

Brady:
- 346 pass att, 6 rushes, 13 sacks
- 2,398 passing, 2 rushing, -86 in sacks
- 20 td passes, 7 interceptions, 4 fumbles

So: 365 plays, 2,314 yards, 6.34 yds per play, 20 touchdowns, 11 int/fum

Brady's been better, but this is actually closer than I would have thought. And Cam had one game where he just came off the Covid list, having not practiced for two weeks.
Ok, if Cam plays well from here on out, would you consider bringing him back next year factoring in no real training camp/preseason games/chance to adapt to the offense/him having COVID?

Understood "well" is a relative term, but I guess what I'm asking is do you see him getting bit better the past couple of weeks and trending upward or do you think he's cooked and they need to reboot the QB position in 2021?

I'm biased because I like him as a person a great deal, I want him to succeed and prove people wrong, so I'm really not looking at this objectively, he's just a likeable person and I want him to succeed and be my QB, as a person he's someone I'm happy to root for and I don't find that with a lot of pro athletes........................
 

BaseballJones

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It's so hard to evaluate him this year for all the reasons you cited. Obviously he brings certain positive things to the table, and the Pats' running game has been fantastic this year, which is all good. But in today's NFL you can't have a QB who can't throw touchdown passes. It's a major problem.
 

Van Everyman

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It's so hard to evaluate him this year for all the reasons you cited. Obviously he brings certain positive things to the table, and the Pats' running game has been fantastic this year, which is all good. But in today's NFL you can't have a QB who can't throw touchdown passes. It's a major problem.
Do touchdown passes require people to throw them to? Asking for a friend.
 

54thMA

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It's so hard to evaluate him this year for all the reasons you cited. Obviously he brings certain positive things to the table, and the Pats' running game has been fantastic this year, which is all good. But in today's NFL you can't have a QB who can't throw touchdown passes. It's a major problem.
Is his inability to throw TD's a function of him being limited in that regard is the talent around him limited?

Nice that he has something going with Myers, but they literally have nothing at the tight end position for the second year in a row, Edelman is hurt and so is Harry.................so one legit WR, throw in Byrd just because.

He has no weapons and it's amazing they are able to run the ball so well with teams putting 8 men in the box and daring them to throw.................
 

BaseballJones

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Do touchdown passes require people to throw them to? Asking for a friend.
Did you see how wide open Meyers was last game on a deep ball? Wide. Open. And Newton missed him by five yards. Easy touchdown.

Earlier in the season, Byrd was open down the left sideline (can't remember what game it was). Newton missed him. Easy touchdown.

I don't expect him to have 20 touchdown passes with this crew.

I do expect him to have more then..... TWO.
 

Seels

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a Newton resigning for something other than veteran minimum indicates Bill thinks 2021 is a transition year too. People want to make excuses for this player when the realisty is that his numbers are right in line with where they've usually been outside of 2015.
 

Van Everyman

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Did you see how wide open Meyers was last game on a deep ball? Wide. Open. And Newton missed him by five yards. Easy touchdown.

Earlier in the season, Byrd was open down the left sideline (can't remember what game it was). Newton missed him. Easy touchdown.

I don't expect him to have 20 touchdown passes with this crew.

I do expect him to have more then..... TWO.
If you’re talking about the post pattern to the left side where he overthrew Meyers I thought Griese or the other color guy (Riddick?) explained it well.

The safety was initially shading to the left side of the field so Newton couldn’t lead him to the left without throwing it right into the guy’s hands. Between the time Newton set his feet—something that still doesn’t happen enough—and released the ball, the safety fell down, JC Jackson-style. But by then Newton had already committed to leading Meyers long not left.

Assuming that’s the play you’re referring to, that was actually the correct decision by Cam and good execution because he threw it where the defender couldn’t get to it.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I really have no idea where to put this...but can someone explain how Steve Grogan was ever drafted? (5th round, 116 overall in 1975).

He seems to have been a 2 year starter (and got some burn in his sophomore year). But his final 2 years went like this...

1973- 5-6. 72/164 (43.9%), 1050 yards (6.4 YPA) 4 TD/15 INT (!!!!!!!) Rushed for 372 yards on 188 attempts (2 YPC), 5 TDs.
1974- 4-7. 67/144 (46.5%), 834 yards (5.8 YPA) 6 TD/6 INT. Rushed for 214 yards on 117 attempts (1.8 YPC), 1 TD.

I mean, I understand that the game was different, but that looks like maybe the worst QB stats I have seen on someone who kept his job for a full season. What am I missing?
 

jose melendez

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This year has actually been a coaching tour de force for Coach Bill. GM Bill left him with maybe 1 (Harris) above average offensive skill player and he's got three wins against good teams LV, Bal, and apparently Miami, three near wins against good teams (Sea, KC, and Buf). The Denver game was bad and SF was unforgivable, but coaching has kept a very low talent team competitive.
 

BillWarDamnEagleJay

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I really have no idea where to put this...but can someone explain how Steve Grogan was ever drafted? (5th round, 116 overall in 1975).

He seems to have been a 2 year starter (and got some burn in his sophomore year). But his final 2 years went like this...

1973- 5-6. 72/164 (43.9%), 1050 yards (6.4 YPA) 4 TD/15 INT (!!!!!!!) Rushed for 372 yards on 188 attempts (2 YPC), 5 TDs.
1974- 4-7. 67/144 (46.5%), 834 yards (5.8 YPA) 6 TD/6 INT. Rushed for 214 yards on 117 attempts (1.8 YPC), 1 TD.

I mean, I understand that the game was different, but that looks like maybe the worst QB stats I have seen on someone who kept his job for a full season. What am I missing?
One thing to keep in mind is that in college sacks count as negative rushing yards for the QB. The YPC don't really say anything about his running abilities.
 

DJnVa

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Healthy Cam (weeks 1-3, 8-10)

117/168, 69.6%, 1280 yards, 3/2 TD/INT, 240 yards rushing, 8 TDs.

Others can quibble, but it's clear that he was still struggling with after-effects of COVID and lack of practices against Denver and SF.
 
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