2018 Steelers: For Whom the Bell Tolls

NYCSox

chris hansen of goats
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They should fire Tomlin, but they won't. The game in Baltimore today showed there's a changing of the guard underway in the AFC North...Pittsburgh needs a change.
If the coach won't hold the players accountable, why should the organization hold the coach accountable? Unbelievable. This was once a model franchise.
 

Van Everyman

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Maybe, maybe not but given how much was on the line for the Stillers, sitting Brown seems like a plus for Tomlin in my book.
 

Marciano490

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the Athletic PIT & Jason La Canfora, says that "teammate" was Big Ben. And that the altercation was "ugly"
Any interaction with Ben is bound to be ugly. Dude could hand you a rose and play you a nocturne and it’d be ugly.
 

RedOctober3829

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The Bouchette article said he skipped a mandatory meeting the week before and still played against the Saints. AB is an incredible talent but I believe he will never win a title. He is not conducive to being a leader and seems to be a toxic figure in the locker room.
 

johnmd20

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The Bouchette article said he skipped a mandatory meeting the week before and still played against the Saints. AB is an incredible talent but I believe he will never win a title. He is not conducive to being a leader and seems to be a toxic figure in the locker room.
He was a rookie when the Steelers won, so he's got the title, but he wasn't a big part of that team. Disruptive WRs seem to have an incredibly deleterious effect on teams.
 

dcmissle

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He was a rookie when the Steelers won, so he's got the title, but he wasn't a big part of that team. Disruptive WRs seem to have an incredibly deleterious effect on teams.
It seems that for every Julio Jones there are 5 or more OBJs, Dezs, TOs and so forth. And if that’s a misperception of risk, it’s probably because the disrupters are so fucking disruptive that everything else is drowned out while they threaten to burn the village. In the main, it’s not worth it. Nobody can manage these guys.

And if you have $65 MM guaranteed over 5 years to one of these guys, you’re fucked.
 

johnmd20

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His first year was 2010 and they lost to GB in the SB that year.
I heard it on the Ringer NFL podcast today. They were wrong, thanks for the correction.

It seems that for every Julio Jones there are 5 or more OBJs, Dezs, TOs and so forth. And if that’s a misperception of risk, it’s probably because the disrupters are so fucking disruptive that everything else is drowned out while they threaten to burn the village. In the main, it’s not worth it. Nobody can manage these guys.

And if you have $65 MM guaranteed over 5 years to one of these guys, you’re fucked.
The Giants giving OBJ that contract this year was one of the worst moves I've seen in a long time. He's a massive disruption and he's also always injured. They just burned that money.
 

Kliq

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Ryan Clark was just on SportsCenter with SVP and really ripped into Brown; called him selfish throughout his career and doesn’t care about winning, only his stats, and whines when he doesn’t get the ball. It was pretty damning to see a former teammate call him out like that.
 

mr_smith02

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Brown must own his actions, but one cannot ignore the fact that Tomlin created an atmosphere in Pittsburgh that allows the likes of Brown, Bell and Roethlisberger to just do their own thing and put themselves before the team.
 

Ed Hillel

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Steelers have generally been a top 3-5 team talent-wise in the NFL and made only one AFCCG in the past 8 years, while having numerous in-house issues. I’d be so pissed at keeping Tomlin around this long if I was a Steelers fan, and the worst part is it’s probably too late at this point. The window is closing rapidly, if it isn’t closed already.
 

dcmissle

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NortheasternPJ

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AB has asked to be traded.

The whole "coach is too aligned with the QB" is insanity. The last thing the coach needs to be aligned with is a diva pain in the ass WR. Tomlin's lost control, what a shock. AB's a pain in the ass, who could have guessed that after this FB Live video last year.
 

Super Nomario

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Steelers have generally been a top 3-5 team talent-wise in the NFL and made only one AFCCG in the past 8 years, while having numerous in-house issues. I’d be so pissed at keeping Tomlin around this long if I was a Steelers fan, and the worst part is it’s probably too late at this point. The window is closing rapidly, if it isn’t closed already.
Have they? I don't know. I see Pittsburgh as an exhibit for the idea that there's a lot more to talent than top-end talent. They always have big-name superstars but I don't know that the roster is / has been particularly good 10-53.
 

Michelle34B

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Trade Antonio Brown on June 2nd to the Jets for a 2nd or 3rd and conditional 4th/5th. The cap hit is split at $7M for 2019, and $14M for 2020. Their first priority should be keeping Mike Munchak on the coaching staff, unless he wants one of the open HC spots. Their defense only had 8 interceptions, and Chris Boswell went from Pro-Bowler to 65% FGM and 5 missed XP this year. The Steelers had a 9-6-1 season, and had some close games this year.

Mike Tomlin. Last year the Steelers were 13-3 and had their season ended on Bortles to Bohanon. (Style points to Tommy Bohanon for the near-backpedal on the reception.) .


They didn't fire Tomlin last year, they fired OC Todd Haley. This year they'll fire DC Keith Butler.
 

tims4wins

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Maybe, maybe not but given how much was on the line for the Stillers, sitting Brown seems like a plus for Tomlin in my book.
Sorry just seeing this. I agree sitting Brown was the right move, the point is that Tomlin has fostered this sort of environment. It’s quite the black mark that they will have only been to one of the last eight conference championship games.
 

BigSoxFan

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Sorry just seeing this. I agree sitting Brown was the right move, the point is that Tomlin has fostered this sort of environment. It’s quite the black mark that they will have only been to one of the last eight conference championship games.
And they were completely outclassed in that one
 

E5 Yaz

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The whole "coach is too aligned with the QB" is insanity. The last thing the coach needs to be aligned with is a diva pain in the ass WR. Tomlin's lost control, what a shock. AB's a pain in the ass, who could have guessed that after this FB Live video last year.
Of course, Ben is a diva pain in the ass as well
 

reggiecleveland

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Sorry just seeing this. I agree sitting Brown was the right move, the point is that Tomlin has fostered this sort of environment. It’s quite the black mark that they will have only been to one of the last eight conference championship games.
There is no way to know this is the case. Maybe Tomlin has been fantastic at dealing with a real clown, and it just boiled over. You want to give guys this talented a chance, and get the most out of them. I have been on both sides of this type of thing as a coach. When I didn't know a damn thing I observed things happen with other teams and thought how I would never let that happen. Then it happened to me too. I have had questionable guys turn it around and become great players, and also great guys turn into selfish jerks.
 

j-man

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looking at pitt for next season

3-1 Aga the afc east only loss to ne
1-3 aga the nfc west only win aga zona
beat LAC and TENN go 3-3 aga afc north 9-7
 

McBride11

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Not a Steelers move - but between Tomlin question marks, Ben's age, Brown and Bell.... blow it up and start over?

Tomlin needs to go for this team. Brown is good but I can't say any WR is worth 20M / year cap hit (or whatever close he is). While Brown is a top 3 WR (arguably the best in the last 5 years) that money for a WR just seems poor decision. JuJu has surpassed him likely on the team, probably because of 1CB and safety help, but still. Plus Steelers have recently churned out great WR (Brown, JuJu, Holmes, Burress, Sanders, etc)
Moss in his prime mabye 20M aav cap hit, but Brown is great but not that great.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Not a Steelers move - but between Tomlin question marks, Ben's age, Brown and Bell.... blow it up and start over?

Tomlin needs to go for this team. Brown is good but I can't say any WR is worth 20M / year cap hit (or whatever close he is). While Brown is a top 3 WR (arguably the best in the last 5 years) that money for a WR just seems poor decision. JuJu has surpassed him likely on the team, probably because of 1CB and safety help, but still. Plus Steelers have recently churned out great WR (Brown, JuJu, Holmes, Burress, Sanders, etc)
Moss in his prime mabye 20M aav cap hit, but Brown is great but not that great.
If they're going to have to rip the bandaid on a 31 year old WR with a $20m cap hit, now's actually not a bad time based on his contract.

Cap hit if cut:
2019 - $21m
2020 - $14m
2021 - $7m

Cap hit if on the team:
2019 - $22m
2020 - $18.3m
2021 - $19.4m

As you said, they some how can find awesome receivers and as a Pats fan it's infuriating looking at that list when the Patriots are unable to find 1 since Deion Branch, and having a 31-33 old receiver taking up $20m of cap space a year isn't ideal and the cap hit next year is still a giant $14m, so you might as well do it now.

They've got the rollover money from the unspent money on Bell since he didn't show up as well.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I don’t see how it’s anything but a ‘bad time’ from a cap perspective to cut him. Swallowing 21m of dead cap for ‘19 and 14m for ‘20 is rough.
 

PedroKsBambino

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You'd want to wait until post June 1, wouldn't you? I am not sure they will want to deal him then, but it creates a tough situation---they have to go through the whole offseason with some lack of clarity on whether he'll be there, and in particular around their cap.

The right planning assumption is probably that they'll try to retain him at least for 2019 and mend fences, and if it falls apart during these 5 months explore options in June, right?
 

DJnVa

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I don’t see how it’s anything but a ‘bad time’ from a cap perspective to cut him. Swallowing 21m of dead cap for ‘19 and 14m for ‘20 is rough.
It's not $22 million this year AND $14 million next. It's one or the other.

His point is that this is the one season the cap his is more for him being on the team than it is to cut him. Not sure I agree with that, but I think that's what he's saying.
 

tims4wins

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Given that they have the Bell rollover cap space I think it would be a good time to move him. They could even do it before June 1 if they wanted.
 

NortheasternPJ

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It's not $22 million this year AND $14 million next. It's one or the other.

His point is that this is the one season the cap his is more for him being on the team than it is to cut him. Not sure I agree with that, but I think that's what he's saying.
Correct. If his cap hit was $22m this year and say it went down to $7m next year it would be a very different situation. With the Bell money and it's only $7m difference, if they feel they have to move on, they can do it. The ideal scenario is that Antonio Brown shuts up and plays like Antonio Brown but that looks less likely.
 

Boston Brawler

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Tomlin also reiterated that the injury was real, and could not confirm if AB left the game early on Sunday.
 

BigJimEd

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Of course the injury was real. They wouldn't lie on the injury report.

According to over the cap, AB has a 2.5 million roster bonus due the 5th day of the issue year.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Correct. If his cap hit was $22m this year and say it went down to $7m next year it would be a very different situation. With the Bell money and it's only $7m difference, if they feel they have to move on, they can do it. The ideal scenario is that Antonio Brown shuts up and plays like Antonio Brown but that looks less likely.
Yeah you’re right about the cap hit, I shouldn’t post when I am half asleep.
 

pappymojo

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Steelers have generally been a top 3-5 team talent-wise in the NFL and made only one AFCCG in the past 8 years, while having numerous in-house issues. I’d be so pissed at keeping Tomlin around this long if I was a Steelers fan, and the worst part is it’s probably too late at this point. The window is closing rapidly, if it isn’t closed already.
Have they? I don't know. I see Pittsburgh as an exhibit for the idea that there's a lot more to talent than top-end talent. They always have big-name superstars but I don't know that the roster is / has been particularly good 10-53.
This is from last year:

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/every-nfl-teams-10-year-record-ranked-32-1-010417

Steelers at number 3 with a record of 103-57.
 

pappymojo

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This sounds like a violation of the rules, no?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/31/report-antonio-brown-missed-game-for-disciplinary-reasons-not-injury/

Brown missed practice Wednesday with what the Steelers called a coach’s decision. The team added a knee injury when Brown didn’t practice Thursday, and coach Mike Tomlin told reporters Friday that the wideout was undergoing tests on his knee.
Tomlin also reiterated that the injury was real, and could not confirm if AB left the game early on Sunday.
Everyone is injured in some fashion at this point in the year, but when did the injury happen? Did the Steelers keep an uninjured Brown from practicing on Wednesday due to a coach's decision and then his injury got to the point where he couldn't practice on Thursday even though he didn't practice on Wednesday?
 

NortheasternPJ

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What a s-show.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/02/mike-tomlin-not-pleased-with-antonio-brown-for-abandoning-team-in-darkest-hour/

You can blame Tomlin for enabling the culture, but he seems to have handled the weekend situation well.

And points for actually providing information during the press conference, which I saw.
The last paragraph was a good laugh. He’s been the coach of an NFL team for a decade or so and he’s just learning this now?

Moving forward, Tomlin made it clear that he’ll be more inclined to be strict with players in the future, acknowledging his own responsibility for the mess that he now must clean up, as another season of high expectations and championship potential ended with a failure to make it to the playoffs.
 

johnmd20

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looking at pitt for next season

3-1 Aga the afc east only loss to ne
1-3 aga the nfc west only win aga zona
beat LAC and TENN go 3-3 aga afc north 9-7
If you're at 50% with these guesses, I would be surprised.

Predicting a team's record a full year in advance is literally impossible.
 

simplyeric

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Nah, it's 100% possible.

Successfully predicting a team's game-by-game record, however, is impossible ;)
Not "impossible".
It would just be exceedingly lucky, and not really based on all that much besides guesswork.
But it is "possible".