That's classic
That's classic
Do you feel they tanked the season by trading Mack before it started? Because, I wouldn’t consider having a fire sale now tanking per se; they’re not making the playoffs regardless and this seems more about bouncing back in a year or two then trying to get a high pick.The best player they could deal would be Keleche Osemele. I would be pissed if they traded him for less than a 2, since he is one of the top 2-4 guards in the league. Jerrod Cook is a guy that some team that is close should consider renting, he has been great this year.
According to Rappaport, who is clearly the best source for what is going on in Alameda in the Gruden era:
I would add team Captain and leader, Center Rodney Hudson, who is also extended on a great deal through 2020, to the list of guys who won't be traded, but I bet everyone else not mentioned by Rap could be acquired. I fucking hate tanking and dont think this team, as constructed at the end of last season, needed to tank, but fuck it, at least they are doing it right.
Cr might have other issuesBy all means, tear it down. Gruden knows he has some time to build with, so might as well start now. I'm not even sure about Carr anymore. His decision making under pressure worries me.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25062261/derek-carr-says-loves-playing-oakland-raiders-even-not-popular-one-right-nowDarren Carr's tweet was in response to a Pro Football Talk tweet about a story by The Athletic, which reported that Derek Carr has a "fractured relationship" with his Raiders teammates.
The Athletic, citing multiple sources, reported that teammates' confidence in Carr "has waned," in part, because of film that appeared to show the quarterback crying after taking a hit in Oakland's loss to Seattle in Week 6.
Derek Carr plays scared in every way. Scared of the pass rush, scared of pushing the ball down the field. He just sucks right now, he's Brian Hoyer with more arm talent.
MMMM
Look at this beautiful QB play
He's dead last in the NFL in air yards.You missed multiple games this year, apparently. There is a large element of coaching in that inaccurate assessment you are making. Watching the Cleveland, Indy, Miami or Denver games (ie. games they had a chance to win) Carr hangs in the pocket and takes shots just fine. His biggest errors in those games are forcing shots deep (best examples being the interceptions in the end zone against Miami and the Rams). Gruden is clearly telling him to get the ball out quick and keep throws short in the games where their poorly coached and injury ravaged ravaged offensive line is getting overrun.
In terms of being afraid to throw deep, his YPA is up almost a yard (7.8) over his career average this year. According to PFF (give me time to find the stat) he has the third highest deep ball completion percentage, though he is throwing the 4th fewest deep balls, just ahead of noted “scared to go deep” guy Drew Brees.
Are you recommending that Gruden give Martavis Bryant more than a dozen or so snaps a game? If so, I agree.He's dead last in the NFL in air yards.
You can probably be good with David Carr level QB play if he costs $4M or less and all the money goes into making everything else better. You can't have him making what he makes and expect the team to be good.
Oakland has a lot of problems, but paying a ton of money to a not good QB is the easiest way to have a bad team
I get not wanting Carr to get hurt in a meaningless (at that point) game and I still believe in Carr as an above average QB, but I think he has to take advantage of the blocker in front of him and go for a first down. When he's about to get hit, sure, slide away, but he has to keep the other guys in the locker room in his corner and that play won't help. Players watching that on tape will either be furious, or laughing, or shaking their heads. All of which are terrible for a leader.I absolutely want him sliding early down 34-3 in the fourth quarter. In fact, I don’t want him the game at that point since Gruden wasn’t trying to win, based on the decisions(kicking a field goal down 34-3) and play calling (running the ball the entire 4th quarter) that Gruden was going with in the game.
This is the problem with tanking in the NFL. Careers are so short, games are so few and injury is lurking around every play. Getting players to buy into the big picture benefits of tanking is fucking impossible in a way that is not present in the NBA or baseball.
“Carr is the problem” people clearly don’t watch this abomination of of a team, seeing as Quarterback play has been the only highlight of this horrible season beyond the 5 games of vintage Beast Mode we were given.
This is an interesting take on Carr, that he's gone Carson Palmer.I watch the Raiders a lot (I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess), and Carr hasn't looked right to me since he broke his leg in 2016. I don't think he's scared of being hit, as GF's videos above demonstrate, but I do think he's nervous of being hit from behind, which is how the leg injury happened. He often steps up into the pocket even when there is no edge pressure.
Basically, I think the injury's affected his psyche. If he sees the pressure, he's fine, but he doesn't sense the unseen very well, and it's affecting his ability in the pocket.
The banged up line hasn't been very good, but at times, Carr also seems to step into the inside pressure, creating sacks that don't have to happen.
Wow, that's a lot of cap room, given that there's a salary floor. Do you think they'll be looking to take on Osweiler-to-Browns type deals where they assume short-term salary ballast in exchange for picks?Besides, cap room is not an issue, they have $75 right now, assuming a $190M cap. After they cut the players off of Gruden's shit list (Bruce Irvin, Tahir Whitehead etc.) they are going to be close to $100M. There has to be some stability on the roster, and they have to hit their salary floors. The best plan for that is to keep Carr and the three interior lineman under 30 (Jackson, Hudson, Osemele) that they have on long term deals.
Hard to argue with this. My immediate emotional reaction watching the game was to yell at the TV when I saw the early slide.. When he's about to get hit, sure, slide away, but he has to keep the other guys in the locker room in his corner and that play won't help. Players watching that on tape will either be furious, or laughing, or shaking their heads. All of which are terrible for a leader.
I am going to watch for this going forward, you might be right.I don't think he's scared of being hit, as GF's videos above demonstrate, but I do think he's nervous of being hit from behind, which is how the leg injury happened. He often steps up into the pocket even when there is no edge pressure.
Seems like we are both fairly entrenched where we stand on DC, but two questions / comments about the bolded, neither of which are Raiders specific:This is an interesting take on Carr, that he's gone Carson Palmer.
I don't buy at all the take that it is all supporting cast, since last year he had better pass catchers, his protection graded out very well and he still had one of the lowest air yards numbers in the league, was near the top of the league in interceptable passes and generally was a bottom half QB. This season the line is worse, and he's stopped taking chances, but it has also meant that he is not throwing intermediate throws. It's not going deep I worry about, it's everything from 5-15 yards downfield where he isn't making plays.
I get the idea that there isn't much out there (though I think the rookie class is fine) but he's not a player you build around to me. He probably has value as a trade piece where they can eat the bonuses to get him to a team that thinks they can compete with him (Jags?, Bucs?, Giants?). But building around him isn't something that his performance the last 2 years makes seem like a good idea.
The worst part of Cable's "scheme" is that he refuses to give help to his linemen when they needed it, with a TE blocking or an RB chip or something. Almost like he thinks that kind of stuff isn't "manly" or something. Do you want to know how bad Cable is? He leaves Seattle and with basically the same personnel (only additions this year were JR Sweezy and DJ Fluker, neither of which is considered to be even mediocre, let alone good) Mike Solari has them in the middle of the pack when last year they were considered one of the worst, if not the worst OL.Tom Cable is a horrific offensive line coach and they can only protect Carr when they have the interior lineman and Miller healthy, then they cover for rookie RT Parker with scheme. Once they have to start moving parts around, or Miller can't base off of his injured plant leg, it all falls apart. They get dominated off of the edge, can't pick up stunts, Carr starts to get skittish and Gruden just buys into the draft position and stops calling plays to win.
Tom Cable - the Ante Dante
Jax is a Bortles away from a SB appearance. Why not trade Carr? Seems like Oak and Jax could work something out.
2019 qb class is weak but why not trade carr for future (2020, 2021) to Jax or some other team just needing a qb. Carr seems like he will only get beat up worse, the window is a few years out, get some value now.
This might be the case, but it's worth noting that Carr played behind an atrocious O-line his Junior year of college (it was somewhat better his senior year at Fresno) and the knock on him coming out was that he started feeling phantom pressure even when none was coming, in exactly the manner Sox and Rocks upthread describes seeing this year.This is an interesting take on Carr, that he's gone Carson Palmer.
I still think he isn't very good and that a rebuilding team should be looking to move him.I would bet on San Diego, Reno or Fresno, in that order, for where they play next season.
I cannot figure out why Oakland decided to sue the entire NFL, rather than just the Raiders.
It really seems like both Derek Carr and Amari Cooper have benefitted from the Cooper trade. Carr in the last 7 games:
- 150/223 (67.3%) for 1651 (7.4 YPA) and 11TDs with 0 interceptions.
Carr has been truly excellent in the last two games against KC and Pittsburgh. (fanboy alert) I'm curious if @Cellar-Door is continuing his Derek Carr slander or has realized the error of his ways.
San Diego would make sense but it would be such a weird tease for the city. Reno or Fresno make less sense. Any stadium there would be just as bad as Sam Boyd but going to Vegas and getting the local support started seems logical.I would bet on San Diego, Reno or Fresno, in that order, for where they play next season.
Ok, agree to disagree. His numbers and the eyeball test both put him somewhere in the top 8-15 QBs in the league. His contract will be around the 10th highest next season and he is a 27 year old locked up for four years. That seems like exactly like the type of player a team would want to rebuild around. Since we liked single game samples above, check this one out, fast forward to the 2:52 mark for one of the best throws of the season by any QB:I still think he isn't very good and that a rebuilding team should be looking to move him.
What numbers? I'd say it's more accurate to say that the numbers put him in the 18 to 25 range, which is fine if you are a contender with a great defense for a team that could be best described as very bad it isn't worth the money.San Diego would be the best, but I can't see Dean Spanos agreeing to it, unless there are some skeletons in the Carson closet that Mark can withhold to make Dean happy.
Reno makes sense for a couple reasons. They could still work out of the Alameda facility and be relatively close to where they play their games. They are going to have their future training camps in Reno and need to start building a bond with that part of the state of Nevada, so building the presence there makes sense. Reno's stadium probably needs some improvements to meet NFL TV standards, but that stadium will host the Wolfpack for years to come, so those improvements would make sense from a community investment standpoint. The reason Sam Boyd doesn't make sense is that they are ripping that place down either way in 2020, so bringing it up to NFL standards is not sensible.
Fresno has many of these same advantages without the political benefit of building good will in Reno.
Ok, agree to disagree. His numbers and the eyeball test both put him somewhere in the top 8-15 QBs in the league. His contract will be around the 10th highest next season and he is a 27 year old locked up for four years. That seems like exactly like the type of player a team would want to rebuild around. Since we liked single game samples above, check this one out, fast forward to the 2:52 mark for one of the best throws of the season by any QB:
That perfect throw over the top of the cover two is exactly the opposite of what you would expect from a cowardly QB who won't throw deep.
They don't have to pay the 24th pick nearly as much money as Mack, though. (FWIW, they also get a first and a third in 2020, but give Chicago a second). In the long run, I think the deal helps both sides.Raiders get the 4th, 24th, and 27th pick in this year's draft. Good luck getting anyone approaching Khalil Mack's talent with the 24th pick.
I like it. Saw a few college games there and it’s a fun place to watch football. I might have to make a trip.Raiders are going to play in the SF giants stadium according to NFL network.