2018 NBA Game Thread

lovegtm

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As an example of how it's not an opposing fan thing: I loathe the Warriors, but find their basketball style inherently attractive. I also go out of my way to watch good defensive teams, like the Jazz, because that has a beauty too.

Harden's game is not beautiful. He lacks taste. Taste matters to hunanoids.
 

DannyDarwinism

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You might feel like I'm splitting hairs, but I saw Pierce's foul-drawing as exploiting his opponents, getting them to jump on upfakes and actually hit him. Harden's game is predicated on taking jumpers where he sticks his feet out, or does a sideways jump, in order for him to create the contact himself, and then exploit the refs' propensity to call that even though the league has been trying to make that an offensive foul. I just see it as far more cynical and far less gamesmanship-y. Plus Harden has his usage rate through the roof so he can win the MVP with those ugly tactics, which just underscores the resentment. Paul Pierce never won anything when he was the best player on his team, unless you count losing to Jason Kidd in the 2002 ECF.

Pierce was also better on D, which is always endearing to neutral fans (or should be).


Which is great, and not much different than the game we saw from John Wall the other night. If that's all he did I'd be fine with it. Where it gets maddeningly frustrating, to the point where I'm rooting against him even against league hegemons like the Warriors, is that that's not all he does. If he wasn't looking to draw cheap contact on every 3 he took or every drive he made to the basket (and if the refs stopped giving him the cheapest or most cynical foul calls you can imagine), I'd appreciate his greatness and not be infuriated by it. But it's disingenuous to come out here and basically say "you hate him cause he's great". We don't. A core part of his game is ugly as sin, and even if it's effective we don't have to like it for what it does to the game aesthetically.

If some baseball pitcher figured out a way to lower his ERA by beaning 2-3 batters a game, maybe fans of his team would defend it, saying it's effective and look at the results! and wow, if they could keep up with his fastball, maybe they'd see the high hard ones coming, but if they can't, that's their fault! But the rest of us baseball fans would have a hue and cry. And then that pitcher goes and wins the Cy Young, and we're supposed to celebrate him? Give me a fucking break.
I’m in violent agreement with your argument for aesthetics as applied to Harden, though I do begrudgingly respect his dedication to his craft.

But as one of the many Pedro fanboys here, your baseball analogy stings a bit. I can’t find rate stats, but just looking at career leaders vs innings, he’s gotta be way up there. Maybe the more apt analogy is the batter who crowds the plate, knowing umps are rarely going to call a strike. I have less emotional attachment to Don Baylor.
 

BigSoxFan

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I get that the NBA is a superstar league and all that but I don't understand why refs continually fall for Harden's stuff. I could deal with it in moderation but it's basically every time down the floor with him. And then when you combine his antics with CP3 and it gets to be too much. It's why last year's Celtics/Rockets game at the Garden remains my favorite Celtics regular season game of all-time.
 

DannyDarwinism

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HomeRunBaker

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I get that the NBA is a superstar league and all that but I don't understand why refs continually fall for Harden's stuff. I could deal with it in moderation but it's basically every time down the floor with him. And then when you combine his antics with CP3 and it gets to be too much. It's why last year's Celtics/Rockets game at the Garden remains my favorite Celtics regular season game of all-time.
This post exemplifies what I don't understand about the non-Harden fans. What "stuff" are the officials continually falling for......the fouls that opponents are committing due to Harden's craft of drawing them? Do those "antics" include having the quickness and ability to get to his spot with the ball to create angles that force the defense out of position allowing Harden to exploit the defenders lack of proper positioning to draw fouls?
 

BigSoxFan

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This post exemplifies what I don't understand about the non-Harden fans. What "stuff" are the officials continually falling for......the fouls that opponents are committing due to Harden's craft of drawing them? Do those "antics" include having the quickness and ability to get to his spot with the ball to create angles that force the defense out of position allowing Harden to exploit the defenders lack of proper positioning to draw fouls?
Honestly, if you have to have this explained to you, then you aren’t watching the same game others are and this conversation is pointless. Guess people see different things. There’s a reason why tons of people on this board and tons of NBA players have identified this part of his game. This topic doesn’t interest me enough to have a prolonged back and forth so I’ll let others carry the torch.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Honestly, if you have to have this explained to you, then you aren’t watching the same game others are and this conversation is pointless. Guess people see different things. There’s a reason why tons of people on this board and tons of NBA players have identified this part of his game. This topic doesn’t interest me enough to have a prolonged back and forth so I’ll let others carry the torch.
For me to see what others are claiming I'd need to see Harden NOT fouled on the plays he is getting to the line. He does get to the line more than others on questionable calls simply because he's creating more of these opportunities than any other player. It's like how people claimed the same with LeBron for years but it isn't happening at any greater a percentage than your average player getting calls. Smart says it perfectly that he uses his body to his advantage which is precisely what I'm saying...….that he's immensely skilled at drawing contact by exploiting out of position defenders better than anyone I've ever seen.

It isn't like he's being gifted invisible fouls which is what many have claimed for years and just isn't true. I mean, has the league publicly commented on the poor officiating of Harden and the bad calls? If this was anywhere near as rampant as some are making it sound there would surely be addressed by the league. They aren't because by and large the officials whistles are blown correctly per the rules of the game.
 
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cheech13

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As part of a three-team deal nearing completion: Ariza to the Wizards, Kelly Oubre to the Memphis Grizzlies and Austin Rivers and two Grizzlies role players to Suns, league sources tell ESPN.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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As part of a three-team deal nearing completion: Ariza to the Wizards, Kelly Oubre to the Memphis Grizzlies and Austin Rivers and two Grizzlies role players to Suns, league sources tell ESPN.
This may be the one deal where Trevor Ariza goes to an actual worse situation. Or maybe the subtraction of Rivers will diffuse some of the tension in the Wizards locker room. I like Oubre to Memphis though his shot from deep is horrific. Sprtsguy33 is still riding hard for him though...
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I like that trade for the Griz. A lot. Conley is going to integrate Oubre nicely.
Oubre needs to shoot at least as well as he did last season and, frankly, it wasn't that great. Otherwise, the two guys the Grizzlies gave up are actually going to hurt not only their depth but also their ability to space the floor. Right now, defenders can sag off Oubre without fear.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Ah I didn’t know who the Memphis pieces were. Makes it a little better for Phoenix, I guess.
I mean your point stands. You would think the Suns could extract more for Ariza than that package. But Ariza has been pretty bad this season. Father time may not have defeated LeBron yet but Ariza, who has played 15 seasons plus (when you factor in all the deep playoff runs), may finally be losing to him...
 

ElUno20

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Not sure if it's everywhere but the Yahoo sports app has a free preview of league pass through the 20th
 

DJnVa

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Its more Selden and Dillon Brooks for Ariza. Rivers is essentially a throw in.

And now word is Memphis is backing out. Apparently, Phoenix was confused as to which Brooks they were getting.

Yes, seriously. They thought they were getting Dillon, Memphis was like, "Uh, no, MarShon."

 

HomeRunBaker

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Man, that's dumb. By the time the Suns are competing, Ariza will be gone. It's not like he's going to come back to haunt you in the playoffs.
Billionaire owners have egos and many refuse to help improve a divisional rival. This has been going on for decades and we've been over it here many times before. It isn't about anything on the court but moreso off the court in some manner whether it be afraid to have the player haunt you or as simple as ones ego not allowing yourself to help a team like the Lakers.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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As part of a three-team deal nearing completion: Ariza to the Wizards, Kelly Oubre to the Memphis Grizzlies and Austin Rivers and two Grizzlies role players to Suns, league sources tell ESPN.
I'd hate to be a 'Zards fan like my boss. Granted they weren't going to go deep into the luxury tax to pay Oubre but I'm not sure what the thinking was to get Ariza. Frankly, if I were running WAS, I would have tried to get Bender as well since they have no young talent on that team.

They keep making hat appears to be semi-defensible decisions when taken Individually but when You add thém all up, you get ths: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25187751/zach-lowe-john-wall-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-nba

At least there was one benefit to the Cs: many people though Wiz were going to take TimeLord but thy passed on him. Glad they did.

Oubre needs to shoot at least as well as he did last season and, frankly, it wasn't that great. Otherwise, the two guys the Grizzlies gave up are actually going to hurt not only their depth but also their ability to space the floor. Right now, defenders can sag off Oubre without fear.
Oubre had a rough start to the tear shooting but in last 10 games he's been shooting nearly 40% from 3P.
 

lovegtm

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Billionaire owners have egos and many refuse to help improve a divisional rival. This has been going on for decades and we've been over it here many times before. It isn't about anything on the court but moreso off the court in some manner whether it be afraid to have the player haunt you or as simple as ones ego not allowing yourself to help a team like the Lakers.
I'm not even sure they're wrong--what's the point of being an owner in a highly competitive league if you can't have petty rivalries?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'd hate to be a 'Zards fan like my boss. Granted they weren't going to go deep into the luxury tax to pay Oubre but I'm not sure what the thinking was to get Ariza. Frankly, if I were running WAS, I would have tried to get Bender as well since they have no young talent on that team.

They keep making hat appears to be semi-defensible decisions when taken Individually but when You add thém all up, you get ths: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25187751/zach-lowe-john-wall-bradley-beal-washington-wizards-nba

At least there was one benefit to the Cs: many people though Wiz were going to take TimeLord but thy passed on him. Glad they did.


Oubre had a rough start to the tear shooting but in last 10 games he's been shooting nearly 40% from 3P.
If I had access to a wbcd app I would use it before B-Ref. Your splits are way better.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Just a colossal unforced error by Stotts to leave his bench in forever and let Toronto gain momentum when it was all but over. May yet escape with the W.
 

nighthob

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And now word is Memphis is backing out. Apparently, Phoenix was confused as to which Brooks they were getting.

Yes, seriously. They thought they were getting Dillon, Memphis was like, "Uh, no, MarShon."

This is the best part of the story


Is there a more Wizardy story than that?

If Ranadive allows Vlade to fire Joerger, he deserves all the scorn. The Kings are happening.
C'mon, Vlade, fire Joerger, developing Bagley's far more important than wins!!!
 

InstaFace

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Savvy win for Warriors, but Sacto is fun and good
That undersells it. The Warriors couldn't hit the broad side of a barn for most of the 4th, they fight back to tie it at 113, Kings put on a defensive clinic and have some nice shots and quickly run out 10-0 to a 123-113 lead. Timeout, Durant starts with the ball, and promptly throws it away. A miss on the other end, another turnover by the dubs... and then they flip a fucking switch. Absolute lockdown on D, and they finally start hitting shots, with Durant getting an easy and-one and Curry getting a dunk, there was a nice 2-on-1 breakaway after a Smart-esque read and interception by Curry... it was a clinic of the highest order. 17-2 run to tie it, take the lead, close out the game and the 5-point win. Just absurd.

You can head here to watch the last few minutes of the game, at least for the next few hours (just rewind to the spot you want to start, I recommend about 8' left in the 4th). Not only do the GSW announcers never lose faith, they're almost downright cocky about it too, even down 10, with their 3 all-star shooters going 2-for-16 combined in the 4th. It was really fun rooting for them for a change, because damn do they make it look easy.
 

Cellar-Door

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Westbrook is an elite "hold me back" fake tough guy.

On the trade... Dillon included makes it a bad deal for Memphis but at least it makes some kind of sense, but MarShon makes it a totally nonsensical trade for PHX. Wallace really wants people to believe that he thought PHX was trying to trade Ariza for 3 deep bench wings/guards on expiring deals?