This tie is a good example of what happens when you make mistakes against really good teams.
Oh well. Win or lose, up the Blues.
Oh well. Win or lose, up the Blues.
On an off-day, he's the third best player in the world. On a so-so day he's the second, on a good day, he's the best of all time.So my takeaway from this game is that Mesy guy could turn out to be a really good player.
Porto?Cup competitions can be tough when you don't draw the easiest team remaining every time, huh?
Champions of England, we’ll sing it til May.
(At this rate, make it early April)
I fall in the hate em and not enjoyable camp but it's bewildering to watch what they're doing and how effective they've been at wasting away the advantage they had built up. If they hadn't gotten incredibly lucky with the Madrid transfer ban I think they'd be in an even more dire situation than they are right now as De Gea has been a match winner for them securing all kinds of monetary infusions to keep them afloat. They could have gotten strangled by the FFP monster they helped to create.Just wondering if there's any stats to back this up. they said last night that in the two legs against Sevilla, Man U had 4 shots on target. That's borderline criminal. Without De Gea, Man U's goal difference in the prem would be much worse than it is, we all know that, but I'd like to know how many shots on target they've allowed, and how many shots on target they've taken, and how that compares with the other more attack minded teams, and Chelsea.
I wonder if Jose will see out his contract. I've never been a Man U fan, or much liked rooting for them ever, but I can see that there is a tradition of playing exciting attack minded football. And, a tradition of a strong nucleus of home grown talent bolstered by some fine ROW players who fit into the squad and buy into the ethos of the club. The fans and several ex player pundits seem to be missing the Fergie style of play; the intensity of performance as much as the attacking flair.
Love em or hate em, there was always something intoxicating and enjoyable about the inevitable Man U all hands to the pump attack, attack with everything, when they were down a goal or needed a goal in the last ten to fifteen minutes of a match. The number of times we'd watch them and say, you knew they'd score, or, you saw it coming. It was always with a bang not a whimper.
How many United games have you watched this season? They have played a 4-3-3 in many games and have had the same amount of success as with 2 holding midfielders. They've also played 4-4-2 and a diamond in midfield at various times of the year.I fall in the hate em and not enjoyable camp but it's bewildering to watch what they're doing and how effective they've been at wasting away the advantage they had built up. If they hadn't gotten incredibly lucky with the Madrid transfer ban I think they'd be in an even more dire situation than they are right now as De Gea has been a match winner for them securing all kinds of monetary infusions to keep them afloat. They could have gotten strangled by the FFP monster they helped to create.
The strange part to me is that they have many of the pieces necessary to be a more competitive side. With so many teams moving to 4-3-3 and it being the best formation for their most expensive instagram model it seems a no brainer for them to be playing that formation. Signing Sanchez never made any sense but a front 3 of Martial - Lukaku - Lingard/Rashford would have ample pace and craft. Since they bought Sanchez they could shoe horn him in there instead of the latest highly overrated United youths if they'd like. Although none of their CDMs are particularly fleet of foot I think they could mostly patch it together with what they have in the remainder of a 4-3-3 midfield. They'd concede more than they do because the CMs, defenders ,and full backs aren't all that good but they'd at least be playing real football and probably about the same place in the league and other competitions but without all the shit negative play. And they'd at least be developing the young attackers they have purchased instead of stifling them and waiting for them to move. Martial was as big a talent in world football as you'll see a few years ago and absolutely flying with confidence taking on defenders. It's hard to watch him now, he looks so adrift of his class and talent.
I'm fine with Valencia out there. Jones as well, but he's been hurt for a while now. With Bailly back and healthy I'm hoping Lindelof or Jones can partner him as he's our best centerback.I think Mourinho's problem is that he has never fully adapted tactically to the pressing revolution wrought by Pep, Klopp, Pochetino, etc. It's not surprising that the league's three best teams are also probably the three best pressing teams. Everyone except Mourinho sees the future as playing with highly mobile, technically adept centerbacks who are good enough on the ball to make the first pass against an intensive counterpress. Everyone except Mourinho recognizes the need to play with pacey fullbacks who can cover lots of ground, so that you can play inverted attackers who can overload the midfield while still maintaining width. Meanwhile Mourinho is still rolling out a back four of Young, Jones, Smalling, Valencia that is neither particularly mobile nor technically adept. That kind of thing worked in 2007 but teams are too good at counterpressing now. Your big lumbering centerbacks can make all the penalty box tackles and headers they want, but the counterpressing teams will just win the second ball when your technically weak back 6 can't pass around them and come right back at you.
I've watched a fair amount of United and of course I've seen them play 4-3-3 but it feels like the formation is used reluctantly and without full commitment. What I've seen of the 4-3-3 from United is that it's been still far too deep, too conservative, almost like a meld of Mourinho's insatiable desire to soak up pressure and release his free attackers into acres of space and the more theoretical benefits a 4-3-3 would provide which is to match the other team all over the pitch while maintaining width and numerical capability to press and win the ball back. Even when playing 4-3-3 United concede so much territory and end up in a very flat shape compared to other teams who employ this type of system. In the end, I suppose I'm doing the conversation a disservice by focusing on the formation. I only introduced it because it seems like Mourinho can't decide on his attack force and I think that choice is relatively obvious. In reality my point is more in where United chooses to contest team on the pitch and regardless of formation it is often very deep, even in a 4-3-3.How many United games have you watched this season? They have played a 4-3-3 in many games and have had the same amount of success as with 2 holding midfielders. They've also played 4-4-2 and a diamond in midfield at various times of the year.
Martial and our instagram model started out great this season. Pogba has really only been poor for the past month or so (maybe six weeks) and while you can say a player of his caliber shouldn't have poor spells that last that long, for some reason he has. Martial was playing great before his injury. If its down to Mourinho then does he get the credit for the first few months of the season? Of course he deserves some of the blame, but so do the players.
As for the bolded, you've done this before. When City won the league a few years back you predicted the club's downfall. It didn't happen then and its not going to happen now. They are the most lucrative club in England, and thats including in the down years that they've had.
The only thing I agree with you on is Sanchez. He's a square peg trying to fit in a round hole.
I'm fine with Valencia out there. Jones as well, but he's been hurt for a while now. With Bailly back and healthy I'm hoping Lindelof or Jones can partner him as he's our best centerback.
When Jose plays a pressing team, he lumps it over the line trying to avoid the press by keeping the ball in the opponents half (whether United have it or they do). In the Europa final it worked. Against Liverpool and Chelsea, it worked. It didn't work against Sevilla because a) Fellaini was awful and b) Sanchez isn't on the same wavelength as his teammates. The frustrating part though is that we should be playing Sevilla off the pitch.
I'm fine playing defensively against the City's, Chelsea's of the world etc...But what is strange about Jose sometimes is he does it against teams where we should be bossing possession. Particularly when your best player's biggest strength is his versatility. If I'm Mourinho I simply play Pogba alongside Matic against teams where we'll have the ball, and push Pogba forward behind Lukaku while bringing in someone alongside Matic in bigger games.
But believe me, as a fan, LVG was a better period than Moyes, and Jose is a better period than LVG.
I never claimed Liverpool didn't get a fortunate draw...this time.Porto?
Of course, that’s United’s bag. I just like pulling the collective Liverpool tail, especially when their domestic cup draw consisted of West Brom at home.I never claimed Liverpool didn't get a fortunate draw...this time.
United have seemed to pull the lowest ranked team in the draw for years, both domestically and in Europe.
Yes, but of course in the same round, Manchester United drew Yeovil Town.Of course, that’s United’s bag. I just like pulling the collective Liverpool tail, especially when their domestic cup draw consisted of West Brom at home.
Yes, but of course in the same round, Manchester United drew Yeovil Town.
I dont know. Pogba wasn't poor until a month or so ago. Now, if you're asking me whats changed, I don't know. In a press conference when Pogba came back from injury, Jose said the reason he was out for so long was because they made a choice to avoid surgery and rehab instead. He's come back from that and hasn't looked the same. Now whether he lacks that 5th gear that he was showing is because of Jose locking him into a role that doesn't allow it, or whether he is hurt is anyone's guess. The difference in quality is striking though. Personally, I don't think he's 100 percent because even in his games when playing alongside Matic, beating players and creating was still there.@Zomp Do you not think Pogba has been poor because of his and Mou’s clashing visions of footy? I mean, he’s not been close to what was expected, and I think there’s two main factors: Mou’s desire for tactical obedience, and Pogba’s seeming tactical inflexibility. I think this constant simmering conflict has been at the heart of United’s “issues” this season.
I’m a longtime fan of Mourinho’s, and I think getting him in at United was huge to stabilize things after the LVG and Moyes missteps; I think to take the next step forward (challenging City, CL advancement), you’re going to need to move on from Mou...or your biggest marketing piece and potential on field engine (in which order should his value be ranked?)
Edit: and I’m with you on Pogba’s play this season- it’s better than people give him credit for. But from an expectation perspective, he’s been relatively poor.
Liverpool vs City should be incredible. In recent memory, all England Champions League ties have been very entertaining. Possibly the draw that both teams wanted to avoid the most?Snark no more about Liverpool! They drew Man City, first leg at Anfield.
Barca-Roma
Sevilla-Bayern
Juve-Madrid
Over the past 2 season, they have played 3 fantastic, very entertaining matches. And the 4th got submarined early by Mane’s red card. No matter what, it should be fun. ‘Pool’s press really brings out the best and worst in City.Liverpool vs City should be incredible. In recent memory, all England Champions League ties have been very entertaining. Possibly the draw that both teams wanted to avoid the most?
The risk, though, is that you then end up with two clubs from the same country making it through to the final...which nobody wants. (Remember Real Madrid-Valencia?)I'm always disappointed when clubs from the same country get drawn together in the CL. We don't need the CL to see English sides play each other. Pool-City will be fun but I would have rather seen them play teams they haven't played before. Liverpool-Real Madrid and City-Juventus would have been much more interesting to me.
Sure, but I'm ok with that risk, since it happens after those teams have already beaten all comers. And not all intra-country finals are bad matches -- the two Real-Atletico finals and the 2008 Chelsea-United final were fairly good games.The risk, though, is that you then end up with two clubs from the same country making it through to the final...which nobody wants. (Remember Real Madrid-Valencia?)
Totally agree with this sentiment. Both Liverpool and Citeh refuse to allow a dull match of football. Considering that most teams sit back against Barca and Bayern, any combination thereof would've been preferable to this. I'm not upset that Barca got the best outcome in terms of advancing, but the same nerves and interest in the match won't be there unless there is a funny scoreline in the first leg. The one thing you can say for this draw though, is it sets up potentially ridiculous semifinal matchups. But, that should be the case no matter what.Sure, but I'm ok with that risk, since it happens after those teams have already beaten all comers. And not all intra-country finals are bad matches -- the two Real-Atletico finals and the 2008 Chelsea-United final were fairly good games.
FWIW, the worst intra-country final was the 2003 Juve-Milan snoozefest at Old Trafford. 120 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
From this Liverpool fan's point of view I'm not so sure. As has been mentioned their recent matches have all been competitive and very, very entertaining. I think Liverpool can beat City. I don't view it as the worst possible matchup - near the top yes. But it would have been more fun to play the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid or Bayern.Liverpool vs City should be incredible. In recent memory, all England Champions League ties have been very entertaining. Possibly the draw that both teams wanted to avoid the most?
So - 'Pool drew and highest rated team and the unfavourable match order in the draw? Geez.At this point its just luck
You think City is higher rated than Barca or Bayern right now? On what basis?So - 'Pool drew and highest rated team and the unfavourable match order in the draw? Geez.
It will just make it all the sweeter when they prevail.
(And then lose to Seville in the semis )
Yeah, you used to know what the semi matches would be at this point, but they scrapped that. There will be a semifinal draw after this round.Didn't they use to draw the rest of the tournament out at this stage? So you knew who the winners would play? Is that not done anymore?
The team drawn first gets home leg first. That's Liverpool, Barca, Sevilla, & Juve this round.Quick question - what determines the home/road match order. Is the seeding or just luck?
Most of the world rankings I have seen have Citeh at the top of their lists .. FWIW ..You think City is higher rated than Barca or Bayern right now? On what basis?
Have you checked their route last year?Totally in favor of Real getting a legit threat in the QF draw. Anything to prevent a three-peat. If they can beat Juve and then two of (likely) Barca, Bayern and City, then hats off to Zizou, but at least there'll be no more of this Wolfsburg-in-the-QFs nonsense.
Even as a Barca fan I'm totally against this. Definitely get a 'Sword of Damocles' vibe from the Superclubs vis-a-vis UEFA. But, the Superclubs at some point need to realize that they may kill the golden goose this way.Got to make sure those top-tier teams stay a leg up on the guys below.
Yup; seems like it only benefits the top clubs that can afford to import big transfer players mid-season like Coutinho that are playing for clubs that made the champions league. This really just hurts the second-tier clubs (Liverpool, Sevilla, Spurs, Arsenal, Dortmund, etc.) that sell their best players to the biggest clubs.Even as a Barca fan I'm totally against this. Definitely get a 'Sword of Damocles' vibe from the Superclubs vis-a-vis UEFA. But, the Superclubs at some point need to realize that they may kill the golden goose this way.
At first I thought "well, sometimes big clubs offload players to second-tier clubs" but usually it's third-tier clubs or China. The only saving grace is if a player is loaned out.Yup; seems like it only benefits the top clubs that can afford to import big transfer players mid-season like Coutinho that are playing for clubs that made the champions league. This really just hurts the second-tier clubs (Liverpool, Sevilla, Spurs, Arsenal, Dortmund, etc.) that sell their best players to the biggest clubs.
So, let´s go:Juventus have given up 5 goals total in the last 25 matches they've played.
Not that I'm an expert, but I've seen 2 Dortmund matches recently and they were not good. Sevilla showed their ceiling in the first half of the Barca match last week and on their day, they can create a lot of problems for any team. The question for them is consistency and taking their chances. Their ability to beat a press in the midfield and get the ball forward to dangerous attackers make them a threat against big pressing clubs (i.e. Bayern). Their defending was pretty solid too and I think people are beginning to recognize Lenglet as a promising CB, and they have intelligent FBs in Mercado and Escudero (although they are missing a solid partner for Lenglet in the middle). I think Montella is still trying to impose his style at Sevilla after getting rid of Berizzo midseason.Thanks!
Sevilla’s form is shockingly bad for a club at this stage. Bayern has no excuse for not winning going away. They looked awesome vs Dortmund with James looking in form.