2015 Bundesliga Thread

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PedroSpecialK

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I need somewhere to express my man-love for Bas Dost - as well as the ridiculously entertaining Leverkeusen/Wolfsburg match from earlier.
 
Wolfsburg were up on Leverkeusen 3-0 at the half with two goals from Dost, including this beauty.
 
Leverkeusen come storming back, with Heung-Min Son netting two before Dost completed his hat trick to make it 4-2.
 
Son matched with his hat trick goal a couple minutes later, followed by Bellaraibi tying the game in the 72nd minute.
 
In the final minute of stoppage time however, Dost turned home a beautiful Vieirinha cross to give Wolfsburg the 3 points and keep them within 8 of Bayern.
 
Speaking of -  Bayern beat Hamburg 8-0.
 

jaba

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Any recommendations on picking a Bundesliga team (that isn't Bayern Munich)? I jumped on the Everton train this past year and that hasn't worked out great. Hoping to avoid a similar result but would love to start following with the new Fox broadcasts. 
 

SoxFanInPdx

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mhdousa said:
Any recommendations on picking a Bundesliga team (that isn't Bayern Munich)? I jumped on the Everton train this past year and that hasn't worked out great. Hoping to avoid a similar result but would love to start following with the new Fox broadcasts. 
 
Depends what you value in a club I suppose. If you want a team that wins and is a European giant or a club that has a reputation of developing talent and staying somewhat in the mix. Another one is if you're into supporter culture or not. There really is no straight answer since the Bundesliga is pretty unique from other leagues since it has parity compared to La Liga and the EPL.
 

jaba

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SoxFanInPdx said:
 
Depends what you value in a club I suppose. If you want a team that wins and is a European giant or a club that has a reputation of developing talent and staying somewhat in the mix. Another one is if you're into supporter culture or not. There really is no straight answer since the Bundesliga is pretty unique from other leagues since it has parity compared to La Liga and the EPL.
Dare I ask if there is an Everton equivalent (great history, an active rivalry, good reputation for developing talent, not too much chance of getting relegated...um...)?
 

SoxFanInPdx

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Schalke, Bayer Leverkusen and Wolfsburg have had good history of staying up and all develop talent really well. When it comes to rivalries in the Bundesliga, there is none better than Schalke vs. Borussia Dortmund. Also, Schalke has 7 Bundesliga titles, only topped by Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund. This season Dortmund have danced in the relegation zone due to a number of injuries to players and in the end, I think they'll escape it this season. Another club that develops really good talent historically is Werder Bremen. Also, keep in mind that there a few Borussia Mönchengladbach supporters that hang around these parts. Great history too.
 
I'd recommend doing some research on some of these clubs before making a choice. Besides, its fun to do as well. 
 

Spacemans Bong

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I hate the idea of "choosing" a team. You shouldn't really choose a team, it should come to you. You fall in love and you don't fall in love in the real world by narrowing down candidates and going eeny, meeny, miny, mo. 
 
Watch a bunch of games and the team that has a midfielder you really like, great atmosphere, an interesting cup run, nice shirts, good young manager, attractive playing style, socialist ethic, will come before you and say "Love me!". You'll be hooked no matter who they are.
 
Worth pointing out that there's a ton of historic clubs in the 2. Bundesliga this year. Dusseldorf, Slautern, Sechzig, Sankt-Pauli, Nuernberg, Greuther Fuerth (Henry Kissinger's favorite!), etc. So there's more options than just the top 18 teams at the moment. But obviously the top teams are going to be much easier to follow unless you dig trying to find streams. 
 

jaba

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Spacemans Bong said:
I hate the idea of "choosing" a team. You shouldn't really choose a team, it should come to you. You fall in love and you don't fall in love in the real world by narrowing down candidates and going eeny, meeny, miny, mo. 
 
Watch a bunch of games and the team that has a midfielder you really like, great atmosphere, an interesting cup run, nice shirts, good young manager, attractive playing style, socialist ethic, will come before you and say "Love me!". You'll be hooked no matter who they are.
 
Worth pointing out that there's a ton of historic clubs in the 2. Bundesliga this year. Dusseldorf, Slautern, Sechzig, Sankt-Pauli, Nuernberg, Greuther Fuerth (Henry Kissinger's favorite!), etc. So there's more options than just the top 18 teams at the moment. But obviously the top teams are going to be much easier to follow unless you dig trying to find streams. 
Yeah, I totally get that. Given how hard it is to watch Bundesliga games now, I thought it would be good to spend my time reading up some of the teams and then going into next season with a rooting interest. 
 
Thanks for all the opinions. Wolfsburg looks intriguing. I've always hated/admired de Bruyne since he abused the USMNT. I'm not as familiar with player movement from the Bundesliga. Is it assumed that someone with his talent will soon be on his way to a top EPL team?
 

coremiller

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Honestly, if you're looking for a club like Everton ... why not just stick with Everton?  It's not like they're going to be relegated.  The only club in Germany guaranteed not to have a disappointing mid-table season every few years like Everton's this season is Bayern. 
 

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SoxFanInPdx said:
Schalke, Bayer Leverkusen and Wolfsburg have had good history of staying up and all develop talent really well. When it comes to rivalries in the Bundesliga, there is none better than Schalke vs. Borussia Dortmund. Also, Schalke has 7 Bundesliga titles, only topped by Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund. This season Dortmund have danced in the relegation zone due to a number of injuries to players and in the end, I think they'll escape it this season. Another club that develops really good talent historically is Werder Bremen. Also, keep in mind that there a few Borussia Mönchengladbach supporters that hang around these parts. Great history too.
 
I'd recommend doing some research on some of these clubs before making a choice. Besides, its fun to do as well. 
 
 
Worth noting that Wolfsburg certainly isn't a club with a great history.  It's a somewhat unpopular club around the Bundesliga, where fans don't take kindly to corporate-backed new money (Wolfsburg financed by Volkswagen).  Wolfsburg has been around longer than the other examples who are considered to be more egregious.  Hoffenheim represents a village of around 3,000 people (next to the town of Sinsheim where they play, population 35k) that is bankrolled by Dietmar Hopp, the co-founder of SAP.  And even worse is the looming arrival of Red Bull Leipzig, who are good bet to be promoted to the Bundesliga sometime in the next few years.
 
Side note: corporate branded clubs like Bayer Leverkusen and PSV Eindhoven are exceptions because they were originally founded as a club for actual employees of the company.
 
A minor example is Ingolstadt are currently top of the 2.Bundesliga and are funded largely by Audi, but Audi doesn't spend big money on the club and Ingolstadt are too small to ruffle anyone's feathers.  Their strong season was unexpected and they'd be real minnows in the Bundesliga if they hold on in the Rückrunde.
 
 
The Bundesliga is only 18 clubs and compared to the EPL's 20, I think that makes a real difference in terms of relegation danger.  It's that much easier to find yourself in the 2.Bundesliga.  Outside of Bayern, the safest long-term bets are Schalke, Werder, Dortmund, and Leverkusen.  Even relatively big clubs like Stuttgart and Hamburg are in serious trouble this year.  Borussia Mönchengladbach is strong now and has a proud history, but had some yo-yo years not long ago.  Hertha Berlin is a perpetual underachiever and I'd hesitate to even call them a big club.  They've been particularly yo-yo-ish lately.
 
Right now Freiburg is a smaller club that is doing a great job of producing young talent, but financially they are weak enough that they can't hold on to it for long and are one of those clubs that's bound to be relegated eventually, even if they have a decent 10-15 year run.
 
 
I have no rooting interests anywhere in Europe, but I'd echo Bonger's sentiments that mhdousa should familiarize himself with the clubs and the league, watch games, and see what happens.
 

jaba

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coremiller said:
Honestly, if you're looking for a club like Everton ... why not just stick with Everton?  It's not like they're going to be relegated.  The only club in Germany guaranteed not to have a disappointing mid-table season every few years like Everton's this season is Bayern. 
Oh yeah, I'm definitely sticking with them. Just thought it'd be fun to get into the Bundesliga also given the quality of the soccer there.
 

Spacemans Bong

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Nobody in Germany likes Bayer Leverkusen either. Besides being owned by Bayer they're also suffocatingly family-friendly.
 
All German clubs except for the works teams (Bayer, Wolfsburg) have fans holding the golden share (50.1%). 
 
 

mhdousa said:
Yeah, I totally get that. Given how hard it is to watch Bundesliga games now, I thought it would be good to spend my time reading up some of the teams and then going into next season with a rooting interest. 
 
Thanks for all the opinions. Wolfsburg looks intriguing. I've always hated/admired de Bruyne since he abused the USMNT. I'm not as familiar with player movement from the Bundesliga. Is it assumed that someone with his talent will soon be on his way to a top EPL team?
 
Wolfsburg spent £40 million signing De Bruyne and Schurrle, they aren't selling them for a while. 
 

MiracleOfO2704

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Spacemans Bong said:
Worth pointing out that there's a ton of historic clubs in the 2. Bundesliga this year. Dusseldorf, Slautern, Sechzig, Sankt-Pauli, Nuernberg, Greuther Fuerth (Henry Kissinger's favorite!), etc. So there's more options than just the top 18 teams at the moment. But obviously the top teams are going to be much easier to follow unless you dig trying to find streams. 
 
Not for long. 1860 was in the relegation play-off slot at the winter break, but a win against last-place St. Pauli has them just above it for now. I've gone over my ties to Sechzig in many threads, and I've had to endure a dozen years of incompetence, bad business decisions (signing on to Allianz Arena when they were struggling to stay in the 1. Bundesliga), and out-and-out corruption, and the team is always on the verge of demotion and playing Dortmund reserves twice a year.
 
Of course, I look at the 3. Bundesliga, and I see some once-good teams in there: MSV Duisburg, Hansa Rostock, Arminia Bielefeld, Energie Cottbus. Maybe tumbling down the German pyramid won't be so bad. Just get us back to the Grunwalder Stadion and I think I could enjoy that circle of hell a little.
 

Spacemans Bong

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Shots in today's Revierderby (Dortmund-Schalke):
 
D 31, S 3.
 
Shots on goal:
 
D 13, S 0.
 
Hilarious game to watch if you get a chance, for the first 75 minutes the ball just would not go in the net (helped by Schalke's teenage goalie Timon Wellenreuther having the game of his life) then the floodgates opened. Mhikitariyan's second being my favorite.
 
Dortmund are 10th now and 8 points off a Champions League spot. I think they do it.
 

Schnerres

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soxfan121

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Spacemans Bong said:
I hate the idea of "choosing" a team. You shouldn't really choose a team, it should come to you. You fall in love and you don't fall in love in the real world by narrowing down candidates and going eeny, meeny, miny, mo. 
 
Watch a bunch of games and the team that has a midfielder you really like, great atmosphere, an interesting cup run, nice shirts, good young manager, attractive playing style, socialist ethic, will come before you and say "Love me!". You'll be hooked no matter who they are.
 
 

Schnerres

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After another dominating display of Bayern, they lost 0-2 to Mönchengladbach.
 
Most important facts of the day:
-Arjen Robben torn an abdominal muscle and probably misses Uefa CL quarterfinals with Porto
http://www.goal.com/en/news/15/germany/2015/03/22/10091042/injured-robben-to-miss-several-weeks
-Manuel Neuer made a mistake, that led to the 0-1
-Bayern now leads the Bundesliga with 10 points, after Wolfsburg drew away at Mainz and came a point closer
 
Actually, i think every loss for Bayern will help them in the end of the season. They will be aware that they can lose every match with a simple mistake, even by their best players and they need to finish their attacks more efficiently. Same was last season, when they had more possession than Real, but were outplayed in attacks and chances created. Teams with a solid defense and a fast counter-attacking game like Gladbach, Leverkusen or Wolfsburg in the Bundesliga and then Real will pose big threats. I think, if they beat Porto and then face a team like Barca in the semifinal would only be helpful, as Bayern in topform can outplay them and ofc has the insider in Pep. Facing defensive counter-attacks like Real, Atletico, Juve would be tougher in my opinion.
 

Spacemans Bong

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I would say Neuer made a mistake for 0-2 as well, diving for a shot that was too close to his body. 
 
Gladbach were counter attacking at will, there is something to be said for Bayern being asleep on long passes from the back to a running central forward. It's not the first time that's happened. 
 

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Gladbach just lost their DFB Pokal quarterfinal to Arminia Bielefeld on penalties. Bielefeld is currently leading the 3. Liga. Ouch. 
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Klopp did wonderful things at BvB but I have a hard time seeing him as a good fit for Real or Barca. Prima donna players, awful press, internal club politics...all that seems like a bad match. Plus, you have to play dominant possession-based football at these clubs almost by rule and that has never been his style.

City makes more sense to me. The current aging squad would need a big makeover but they could do it. Interesting to see whether he brings Hummels, Reus, or Gundogan with him, wherever he goes.
 

blueguitar322

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Reus just recently signed his big extension without a buyout clause.  I'm assuming he thought he'd continue playing for Klopp the next few years.  Now that Klopp is leaving, you'd have to figure Reus is a strong possibility to move, as he would walk right into the starting 11 for just about any team in the world except for the big 3. Yes he's been hurt much of this year, but over the past two years he's still averaging close to a goal every other game and almost 3 key passes per game.
 
Amazing to think what Dortmund might have been if they had been able to keep pre-United Kagawa, Gotze, Lewandowski, etc. 
 

Schnerres

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The time had to come some day.
When you listen to his and especially Watzke´s words, you have to think they are overacting. Yes, they might be friends today. But that´s just so ridiculous to act like that in front of all the press.

-No way they let Reus leave, especially after they just said, they won´t let anyone sign new contracts with buyout-clauses.
-could definitely light some new fire in Hummels and make him sign a new contract. He spoke like he was more thinking like he needed a new motivation-boost, which could be a new club-situation, or a new coach now.
-best-case for Dortmund would be if they offer Tuchel a huge contract and he signs it. We know now, that the right coach is as important as your best player, so Tuchel is one of the best in Germany and he could motivate those stars in Dortmund.
-Klopp is a great coach, but a big part of his whole "thing" is his personality and how he talks to the press and probably (i wasn´t with him.. :q: )how he talks to his players, i think more so than it is with other coaches, as he is a very outgoing and outspoken coach. I can see him in the Premier League, as English is manageable, although some of the genius is lost already...I mean, can you see someone like Mourinho, outgoing, outspoken personality, in Germany or France? Half of his jokes and explanations would be lost and held back due to lost words (you have to give Pep even more props, thinking about it that way, how good he speaks german). That´s why i think Klopp can go to England. But his moody personality, which is mostly adored, but already rubs off some in Germany, would not be seen in a shining light as in Germany. And i don´t know if he could take a team like Liverpool and lift them from 5th to 2nd place, for example. He is best suited for a german team, hands-down. Which one? Maybe Leverkusen, but they are set with Schmidt. Maybe Schalke, but he can´t do that, after seven years at Dortmund. Bayern would be a possibility for the future, but not now. He could be a great coach at Hoffenheim, fast-paced and money involved, but they are happy with their young coach Gisdol. Wolfsburg is happy with their coach Hecking.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Schnerres said:
The time had to come some day.
When you listen to his and especially Watzke´s words, you have to think they are overacting. Yes, they might be friends today. But that´s just so ridiculous to act like that in front of all the press.

-No way they let Reus leave, especially after they just said, they won´t let anyone sign new contracts with buyout-clauses.
-could definitely light some new fire in Hummels and make him sign a new contract. He spoke like he was more thinking like he needed a new motivation-boost, which could be a new club-situation, or a new coach now.
-best-case for Dortmund would be if they offer Tuchel a huge contract and he signs it. We know now, that the right coach is as important as your best player, so Tuchel is one of the best in Germany and he could motivate those stars in Dortmund.
-Klopp is a great coach, but a big part of his whole "thing" is his personality and how he talks to the press and probably (i wasn´t with him.. :q: )how he talks to his players, i think more so than it is with other coaches, as he is a very outgoing and outspoken coach. I can see him in the Premier League, as English is manageable, although some of the genius is lost already...I mean, can you see someone like Mourinho, outgoing, outspoken personality, in Germany or France? Half of his jokes and explanations would be lost and held back due to lost words (you have to give Pep even more props, thinking about it that way, how good he speaks german). That´s why i think Klopp can go to England. But his moody personality, which is mostly adored, but already rubs off some in Germany, would not be seen in a shining light as in Germany. And i don´t know if he could take a team like Liverpool and lift them from 5th to 2nd place, for example. He is best suited for a german team, hands-down. Which one? Maybe Leverkusen, but they are set with Schmidt. Maybe Schalke, but he can´t do that, after seven years at Dortmund. Bayern would be a possibility for the future, but not now. He could be a great coach at Hoffenheim, fast-paced and money involved, but they are happy with their young coach Gisdol. Wolfsburg is happy with their coach Hecking.
 
Interesting thoughts Schnerres.  Here's a further question for you: I have read a few different times that Buvac, the assistant manager at Dortmund, is really the tactical brain at BvB while Klopp is more of the inspirational leader and public face of the team.  Do you think that's true?  Also, do you think they will go somewhere as a pair or will Buvac look for his own managerial position?
 

Schnerres

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I have to admit, you get very little information about the guy. I mean, they won Bundesliga titles together, were in the CL final together, and he never speaks in an interview. When you google him, you get very easy information (in german) that he dislikes the attention, so i get the feeling his partnership with Klopp is made for heaven. I don´t think Klopp couldn´t work without him, but one story said they gave each other a promise when they still played together in Mainz, that the first to get a headcoaching job will pick the other as his assisstant. So this situation is better this way than the other way. Other stories go about Buvac and his headcoaching job 18 years ago in the 5th german league, where he had to do interviews (imagine the interviewer..5th league..that had to be a small-town newspaper guy trying to ask 3-4 questions) and refused to speak in full sentences. He actually can speak, as he goes into full Klopp-mode when he goes nuts in training sessions or in the matches. Then you can see Buvac going crazy, too. But the players respect him a lot, as he is the one who chooses the training sessions and so he is probably the one who is responsible for them being in top shape and playing their all-out style that (Buvac and) Klopp wants to play.
 
I think they stay together as a pair, as he is the one who doesn´t speak in public, where Klopp flourishes and both like their roles (not this, but their complete roles). On the other hand, Klopp can sit back a little bit (not that he couldn´t do that, but he may leave that to Buvac and be more of a spectator to collect his impressions) in several exercises or maybe entire training sessions. Even if Buvac may be called the tactical mastermind, that can only come from him being the one who exercises those training sessions. The one who picks the players, who choses who plays where and what should be done, that is Klopp.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Schnerres said:
I have to admit, you get very little information about the guy. I mean, they won Bundesliga titles together, were in the CL final together, and he never speaks in an interview. When you google him, you get very easy information (in german) that he dislikes the attention, so i get the feeling his partnership with Klopp is made for heaven. I don´t think Klopp couldn´t work without him, but one story said they gave each other a promise when they still played together in Mainz, that the first to get a headcoaching job will pick the other as his assisstant. So this situation is better this way than the other way. Other stories go about Buvac and his headcoaching job 18 years ago in the 5th german league, where he had to do interviews (imagine the interviewer..5th league..that had to be a small-town newspaper guy trying to ask 3-4 questions) and refused to speak in full sentences. He actually can speak, as he goes into full Klopp-mode when he goes nuts in training sessions or in the matches. Then you can see Buvac going crazy, too. But the players respect him a lot, as he is the one who chooses the training sessions and so he is probably the one who is responsible for them being in top shape and playing their all-out style that (Buvac and) Klopp wants to play.
 
I think they stay together as a pair, as he is the one who doesn´t speak in public, where Klopp flourishes and both like their roles (not this, but their complete roles). On the other hand, Klopp can sit back a little bit (not that he couldn´t do that, but he may leave that to Buvac and be more of a spectator to collect his impressions) in several exercises or maybe entire training sessions. Even if Buvac may be called the tactical mastermind, that can only come from him being the one who exercises those training sessions. The one who picks the players, who choses who plays where and what should be done, that is Klopp.
 
Thanks Schnerres.  Very informative as always.
 

Schnerres

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So, Thomas Tuchel becomes the successor @Dortmund.
http://www.dw.de/borussia-dortmund-appoint-thomas-tuchel-new-head-coach/a-18392456
He is something of an anti-Klopp, personality-wise. Where Klopp is fun and out-going, makes a joke, Tuchel is distanced and for himself. The guy is a tactical mastermind that is friends with Pep. He also prefers more of a possession-style football, which he played with small-market Mainz 05. He brought them back to the Europa League and expects a lot from his players. Where Klopp plays a simple system and wants his players to play through power, Tuchel expects a lot through tactical flexibility (like what you can see in Pep or van Gaal). There were matches, where he changed his tactical lineup twice, like from a 4-2-3-1 to a 4-4-2 and then to a 5-3-2 or smth like that (and it worked).
He can also be a knucklehead and seems to favor several players over others (older players can say "du"= more personal, younger guys have to say "sie"=more distance). Both Klopp and Tuchel are very impulsive. But Klopp could be argueing with his guys, shake their hand after and it was alright. Tuchel can be an unforgiving guy who remembers things a long time. And when Klopp was always loved in Dortmund (a working-class-town in the coal-driven economy area), as he represented a typical hard-working guy (he was a hard-nosed defender with no technical ability as a Bundesliga footballer, himself), Tuchel comes around like a snobbish and entitled guy that will rub off some people.
 
Let´s see how that will play out. He is a superb coach, but he won´t be loved like Klopp was.
 

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-22/dortmund-said-to-be-insured-for-champions-league-revenue-losses
 
 
Borussia Dortmund is using an unusual insurance policy to recover most of the income it is losing for failing to qualify for European soccer’s elite Champions League for the first time in five years, according to two people with knowledge of the arrangement.
 
Germany’s only publicly traded soccer club is in the third year of an insurance contract that protects against lost revenue from missing the tournament, said the people, who declined to comment publicly as the details are confidential. The deal has about 12 underwriters led by Catlin Group Ltd. and XL Group Plc, they said.
 

Schnerres

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Many transfer rumors swirling around Gündogan. A transfer with ManU seems most likely, but no confirmation yet:
http://www.sport1.de/fussball/bundesliga/2015/04/guendogan-wechsel-von-borussia-dortmund-zu-manchester-united-wohl-perfekt
30mil € or 22mil pounds are mentioned. One year contract is left, but Dortmund wants him to sign a new contract or to sell him, as they don´t wanna see every guy go off for nothing like with Lewandowski. Other rumors include Juve and Bayern...I guess Tuchel is now heavily included in roster contruction for next season (Immobile+Ramos should be off, seems there is an interest in Dzeko, Geis/Mainz 05, Gonzalo Castro/Leverkusen).
 

Schnerres

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Semifinal DFB cup, Bayern - Dortmund.
15mins played, only chance so far was a header from Müller following a corner, but it missed the goal by about 2m left.
Bayern dominating possession, Dortmund defending well.
If Thiago Alcantara´s bones and muscles hold up (a huge if, considering his last 12months), i see the guy as a Top5 player in 2 years.
 
[Benatia is back in Bayerns starting lineup, Robben+Schweinsteiger sit on the bench, they may all play vs. Barca]
 

Schnerres

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1-0 Bayern.
Dortmund on a counter-attack, Kagawa looks to his left 3times, until he finally passes to his left (Reus), where Benatia picks up the pass, dribbles 3meters, passes 50meters into Dortmunds half, where their defense is not set up. Langerak sleeps (Neuer would have picked it up, easily), Lewandowski gets to the ball, controls it, lobs it above Langerak, ball hits the post and rolls to the corner, where Lewandowski gets it again. Two Dortmund guys are between Lewandowski and the goal, Langerak runs back, too. Lewandowski shoots it between everyone and is surprised, he scored it...Hummels went out to defend opponent (huge mistake)..
 
http://gfycat.com/TangibleSmoothKitty
 

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Robbed reinjured, Lahm and Alonso both fall down during the PK shootout. What a kick in the gut that match was.
 

Schnerres

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:globalsox: :globalsox: :globalsox: :globalsox: :globalsox: :globalsox: :globalsox: :globalsox: :globalsox: :globalsox:
4 missed penalty kicks by Bayern...first 2 Beckham´d by Lahm, then Alonso into the sky, then Götze saved and Neuer hits the crossbar - unbelievable!
Hummels the poor guy the only one for Dortmund who missed, but i guess he doesn´t care at the moment...
Robben came in and went out again after about 5mins, that was just nuts.
Benatia played steady defense, Schweini was flat like an old tire...i think he and Lahm will be retired in 2 years.
They dominated possession, without creating many chances, especially in the 2nd half and extra-time. I think they need Ribery back, let´s see what´s up with Robben..Weiser played a good game on the wing, but only in the 1st half...I don´t think he will be the right choice vs.Barca..let´s see how they will come back from this defeat...
 

SoxFanInCali

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Did I read that right that Neuer took Bayern's 4th penalty?
 
A German team going 0-4 in penalties just proves there is a big difference between club and country.
 

twoBshorty

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SoxFanInCali said:
Did I read that right that Neuer took Bayern's 4th penalty?
 
A German team going 0-4 in penalties just proves there is a big difference between club and country.
He took one in the 2012 CL final, too.

They went 5 for 5 against Gladbach in the quarterfinal. Today was just a shitshow all around.
 

Schnerres

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I guess they were somehow out of order, although from my personal point of view, i really liked what i saw, considering the loss of Bayern and the penalties.
The injuries are a real joke and a shame. You have to wonder if there´s anything wrong with Pep´s methods or how much he uses several players.
Robben is out for the season, after a pulled muscle in his calf (he came back from a pulled muscle in his stomach, so no relation...). Lewandowski was a freak accident. He went into a header and Langerak (Dortmunds 2nd keeper) hit the ball somehow and Lewandowski in the head. He has a concussion and two face fractures and it´s unclear when he comes back. Still no word about Ribery who sat out the semifinal. Martinez was in the 18-man-roster last week vs. Berlin, so he could be back. Benatia had his comeback and played a good match. Thiago got a hit of the knee from Gündogan on his thigh and had to be substituted, but no injury came out of it.
 
The options for the offense now are really limited with Robben out and possibly Ribery and Lewandowski out of the 1st match vs. Barca. I have hopes that Lewandowski will play, even in the 1st match...
 

Zomp

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Schnerres can you give a scouting report on Gundogan?  He had a pretty serious injury and looked fat in pictures last year, and I don't watch enough Bundesliga to know if he's back to his best.  It looks like he's been playing pretty consistently in 2015 but after dealing with the Hargreaves situation I don't know what to think.
 

Schnerres

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I´ve never had the impression that he was overweight or even out of shape or slow.
Of course, he was injured for a long time and is now back since a few weeks and tries to get back into the rhythm, but as Dortmund doesn´t play twice per week, this drum beats a different beat, for now.
He is experienced even at his young age (24). He came to Dortmund four years ago, won the league championship, DFB cup, sadly missed the WC last year due to injury (he would have been there for sure) and played in the CL final.
After being back now from injury, he is back with Jogi´s team Germany again. Problem with him is he is prone to injury, it seems (don´t remember any injury, but there were quite a few - he played in less Bundesliga matches in the last two seasons combined (1+19) than the two years before, although he never played in 30 league matches per season. His best season should have been Dortmunds CL final season, when he also played his most matches, 28 in the Bundesliga and 12 in Uefa CL, which got him the kicker-ranking "world class" ahead of next season.
I think it was more important to get the minutes played in 2015 without getting a new injury.
His best position is of course the defensive midfield, but in earlier seasons, Klopp also played him as a more offensive option behind the strikers (you could say as a playmaker). If you wanna compare him to others at the position, he will probably be one of the most creative players in the position and very dangerous in front of the goal. He is able to play good short passes and also tries the long ball, which is of course a very often used way of attacking in Dortmund. His biggest negative is that he plays a ball-winning position in the defensive midfield, but he isn´t a very physical option like a Sami Khedira or Schweinsteiger (maybe it´s unfair to compare him to those guys, but you have to compare him to the best at doing some things). http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/vereine/2014-15/48408/vereinsspieler_ilkay-guendogan.html When i check his tackling stats (see: Zweikampfquote), at each level (DFB Pokal 45%, 1.BL:43%, CL:41%), he is below average and wins less than other midfielders (other than DFB cup, where they also win 45%).
[--> For example, Sebastian Rode, a decent defensive MF from Bayern i checked, wins 57% of tackles in CL, 56% in DFB cup and 57% in Bundesliga.]
He just seems like he has average tackling stats, in every season. I don´t know what to make of this, if this somehow comes from Dortmunds way to play or whatever.
His contract runs until 2016, Dortmund offered him a new one, but he refused to sign it. It is clear that he leaves and Dortmund and him have said the last few days they are moving on. It was said a few weeks ago if he leaves (before it was said that he really leaves... :) ), that he may leave for about 30mil.€, which i think is very, very high for a guy with only one year remaining on his contract, but other sources said it would be a bargain for teams to get him for that sum.
Someone on a german forum said, he can envision him on Wolfsburg. They don´t have much depth (just Luiz Gustavo as a great player) in defensive midfield, but i don´t know if 1)they spend another 30mil on a single player and 2)Dortmund would sell Gündogan to them or just let him go to another team for 1mil less.
I think he would be better off with Wolfsburg and playing in a league and opponents he knows, instead of going to Spain or England because there is 2mil.€more per season to earn, but sit on the bench at Manchester City, for example.
 

Schnerres

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Several german media reports reporting that Max Kruse(27) will leave Mönchengladbach and join Wolfsburg. He has an opt-out clause, if a club shows up and pays the 12mil.€. He knocked on the door to the german national team several times, but he isn´t a great goal-scorer (his top two goal-scoring seasons in the Bundesliga are 11 and 12 goals, if you drop the penalties, it´s 11 goals at Freiburg two seasons ago) and there are several stories about a not-so-professional lifestyle (a story about a visit from a prostitute girl in London exists; he drives a Lamborghini with a camouflage painting; he was winning 40.000 Euros in Vegas, while Germany was winning the WC --> the last two stories aren´t that dramatic, but it shows he is doing his stuff without caring about what the press is reporting and fans think about him).
Wolfsburg is strengthening their roster and Kruse has the chance to go deep in the CL. I guess Wolfsburg has the chance and ambition to make it out of the group stage, while Gladbach would be very happy to survive the group stage and be alright with a 3rd place finish and go to the Europa League.
 
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