2013/14 BC Basketball -- Coach D on the hot seat

mandro ramtinez

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 24, 2006
1,535
Brighton, Mass.
DukeSox said:
VCU is good. Better than UVA or VTech
I wasn't surprised they lost or even that they got blown out.  It's just such a huge heap of disappointment after Hanlan's run at the end of last season had given good reason for hope.  I agree that Bates needs to reset the program completely.  I would have preferred to let Al Skinner run the program into the ground than what has happened.
 

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
912
Lynn
I wonder who would even be realistic candidates, i certainly have more faith in Bates to bring in someone good than i did GDF.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,268
Santa Monica, CA
I posted some potential candidates a few pages back, and I would stand by that list as a starting point.

BC always hires a moderately successful head coach from a smaller northeastern school, so the list is easy to generate.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2007
4,932
East Village, NYC
Time to start scouting out replacements. If it's like every BC basketball search ever, we can limit our search to current head coaches at smaller conference schools in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic area.

Early/Premature thoughts on good candidates after this season:

Tim Cluess, Iona
Steve Masiello, Manhattan
Mark Schmidt, St. Bonaventure
Mike Lonergan, GW
Steve Pikiell, Stony Brook
Ed Cooley, PC (not sure he would leave PC for BC?)


Tim O'Shea, Bryant?

Former BC assistant, and a guy who has done impressive things with Bryant (including a win over BC) and went to the tournament at Ohio before that.
 

berniecarbo1

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2008
1,518
Los Angeles, CA
Grin&MartyBarret said:
Tim O'Shea, Bryant?

Former BC assistant, and a guy who has done impressive things with Bryant (including a win over BC) and went to the tournament at Ohio before that.
 
 
A Skinner disciple and currently Skinner's boss as Al is on his staff. Would he bring Big Al back in a consulting role?????
 

Rusty13

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 3, 2007
4,497
What about Bill Cohen from NU?  He basically recruited all the guys during Skinner's peak years like Bell, Dudley and Smith.
 

mikcou

Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2007
331
Boston
Captaincoop said:
Time to start scouting out replacements.  If it's like every BC basketball search ever, we can limit our search to current head coaches at smaller conference schools in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic area. 
 
Early/Premature thoughts on good candidates after this season:
 
Tim Cluess, Iona
Steve Masiello, Manhattan
Mark Schmidt, St. Bonaventure
Mike Lonergan, GW
Steve Pikiell, Stony Brook
Ed Cooley, PC (not sure he would leave PC for BC?)
 
I hope Ed Cooley isnt on any list. The guy is an aboslutely horrid coach. He makes Skinner look like Brad Stevens in the preparation/game day aspects of the job. Just because Donahue didnt work doesnt mean we should move to his polar opposite (all recruiting, no coaching ability). 
 
This program is in terrible shape and is in desperate need of a major hire. Maybe Bruce Pearl is too risky - but they should at the very least be looking at him. Howland would be another option. If the school absolutely needs someone at a smaller school in the northeast - Amaker should be at the top of the list. 
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,268
Santa Monica, CA
Amaker never got it done in two long chances as a head coach in a major conference.  I don't see anything he's done at Harvard to indicate that he has changed as a coach.  He's not winning in the Ivy right now because he's outcoaching anyone, he's winning because he has twice the talent of any league opponent.  At BC, competing against Duke, Syracuse, North Carolina, etc., you are never going to have as much talent as the other top teams in the conference, you need to be able to develop players and out-scheme other coaches.
 
Bill Coen would probably be a real candidate right now, and while he is a good guy with many supporters around the BC community, his record as a head coach has been really up and down.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
6,362
No point to wait until the end of the year with Donahue, the players have quit on him, another embarrassing blowout loss in progress.  I don't see any way they even win 10 games this year.
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
22,094
Remember the good old days?   From way back in November.   BC couldn't play defense,  couldn't rebound,  couldn't win,   but at least they were an efficient offensive team.
 
Through 17 minutes today 4-21 shooting with 5 turnovers
 
So a huge finish to the first half for BC to pull within 14
 
Outshot 52% - 27%
Outrebounded  21 - 12
 
BC has the lead in fouls committed 14-7
 

mikcou

Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2007
331
Boston
scottyno said:
No point to wait until the end of the year with Donahue, the players have quit on him, another embarrassing blowout loss in progress.  I don't see any way they even win 10 games this year.
 
Theyre terrible but theres no real reason to fire Donahue - the interior options reek even more than he does. They'll suck and then Donahue will be fired at the end of the season (likely the very day after a la Spaz). That being said - the list of candidates to take over should have been started a month ago. 
 
And as for Amaker - let me be clear - I wouldn't be happy with him but if theyre going to hire someone from a small Northeast school, I would much prefer him to a clown like Cooley or a guy like Coen who hasnt shown anything at the head coach level. 
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
6,362
mikcou said:
 
Theyre terrible but theres no real reason to fire Donahue - the interior options reek even more than he does. They'll suck and then Donahue will be fired at the end of the season (likely the very day after a la Spaz). That being said - the list of candidates to take over should have been started a month ago. 
 
And as for Amaker - let me be clear - I wouldn't be happy with him but if theyre going to hire someone from a small Northeast school, I would much prefer him to a clown like Cooley or a guy like Coen who hasnt shown anything at the head coach level. 
Is there any benefit to putting someone else in charge just so they try to run an offense that doesn't involve shooting 20+ 3s a game when they don't have the personnel to do so, or at least don't have the personnel to get open enough shots for it to be effective
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
22,094
scottyno said:
Is there any benefit to putting someone else in charge just so they try to run an offense that doesn't involve shooting 20+ 3s a game when they don't have the personnel to do so, or at least don't have the personnel to get open enough shots for it to be effective
 
Problem is that is what this personnel was recruited to do.  They don't have the personnel to really do much of anything else.   They don't have guys (other than maybe OH), who can dribble penetrate and create their own shot. They certainly don't have the horses to pound inside with.
 
BC has accomplished an amazing feat this year.  I can't imagine how far back you would have to go to find a BCS conference team who has done this or worse.   They have lost to teams from 9 different conferences this year
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,268
Santa Monica, CA
Hanlon and Anderson alone are enough talent to be better than this team has been so far, regardless of style of play.  You should not be going to overtime with Sacred Heart when you have those two guys, either of whom would easily be Sacred Heart's greatest player ever.
 
On the other hand, this schedule has turned out to be ridiculously brutal.  Huge seasons from Toledo and UMass turned two of the only soft spots into tough matchups, Harvard has its best team ever, and you played VCU, UConn, Providence, etc.  Really tough deal for a young team that has to turn around and then compete in the ACC.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,268
Santa Monica, CA
Toledo is top 50 right now in the RPI, I don't think BC was trying to catch a top-50 team when they scheduled that game.  They're not a great team, but that is not the gimme win that it was expected to be.
 
I mean, BC (3-10 record against Division I) is currently ahead of Maryland (9-5) and VTech (8-5) and basically tied with Clemson (9-3) and GTech (9-4) in the RPI.  That says something about the schedule.
 
edit:  Again going by RPI, they have the toughest non-conference schedule of any ACC team, and by a significant margin.  My point isn't that Donahue is doing a good job, just that they had a brutal schedule that was probably not what the doctor ordered for this group in hindsight ( I say "in hindsight" because I loved it on paper).
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,268
Santa Monica, CA
Ultimately, if they finish in the bottom third of the ACC (which you have to assume they will), it won't matter anyway.  It would really, really suck if they pull it together and go .500 in the league and then can't make the tournament because they're 13-18 overall.
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2000
11,626
Bi-Coastal, for the time being
Captaincoop said:
Amaker never got it done in two long chances as a head coach in a major conference.  I don't see anything he's done at Harvard to indicate that he has changed as a coach.  He's not winning in the Ivy right now because he's outcoaching anyone, he's winning because he has twice the talent of any league opponent.  At BC, competing against Duke, Syracuse, North Carolina, etc., you are never going to have as much talent as the other top teams in the conference, you need to be able to develop players and out-scheme other coaches.
I don't disagree with this -- I haven't seen a lot from Tommy's in-game strategy or adjustments or clock management to suggest he can go toe-to-toe with the Pitino's of the world.  However, the fact that he's done an incredible job recruiting, and has a really impressive public face not only for Harvard, but for Michigan and Seton Hall before that, ain't chopped liver.
 
I'm really enjoying the Tommy Amaker era at Harvard and am not looking forward to what will probably be its inevitably too-soon end.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,268
Santa Monica, CA
Mugsys Jock said:
I don't disagree with this -- I haven't seen a lot from Tommy's in-game strategy or adjustments or clock management to suggest he can go toe-to-toe with the Pitino's of the world.  However, the fact that he's done an incredible job recruiting, and has a really impressive public face not only for Harvard, but for Michigan and Seton Hall before that, ain't chopped liver.
 
I'm really enjoying the Tommy Amaker era at Harvard and am not looking forward to what will probably be its inevitably too-soon end.
 
I think he could be successful at a different ACC school - a place where he could leverage his recruiting skills to build a big talent advantage over most teams.  But he's just a bad fit for BC, IMHO, that's all. 
 
At the end of the day, he probably has just found the perfect niche for himself at Harvard.  Why not stay, keep winning titles and competing in the NCAA tournament, and cashing pretty significant checks?
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2000
11,626
Bi-Coastal, for the time being
Captaincoop said:
At the end of the day, he probably has just found the perfect niche for himself at Harvard.  Why not stay, keep winning titles and competing in the NCAA tournament, and cashing pretty significant checks?
 
I'd like to think it's the perfect niche too.  He has all the job security in the world, a nice salary, and the opportunity to compete in the NCAA tournament.  On the personal side, his wife is an instructor at Harvard Medical School, and his kids probably have a pretty good shot at getting into Harvard.  Not bad.
 
But, inevitably, "cashing pretty significant checks" is a matter of scale.  Amaker's salary is a pretty controversial 700k at Harvard, much of it funded by an alumni group.  Donohue is probably at the low end of ACC coach salaries, where he earns north of a million.
 
Hey, I hope Tommy's happy with what he's got... but the dollars and exposure at Harvard (with its 3000-seat gym) just don't match up with what's available to a guy with his resume.
 
All that said... apologies for highjacking the BC hoops thread.  As a former Big East intern with fond memories of the Michael Adams/Jay Murphy/Roger McCready team in 1984, I know Boston's a better place when it has a hot major conference baseketball team... and Harvard's never going to be that.  [The Globe still barely covers Harvard hoops.]
 

kenneycb

Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2006
13,425
Tuukka's refugee camp
Mugsys Jock said:
All that said... apologies for highjacking the BC hoops thread.  As a former Big East intern with fond memories of the Michael Adams/Jay Murphy/Roger McCready team in 1984, I know Boston's a better place when it has a hot major conference baseketball team... and Harvard's never going to be that.  [The Globe still barely covers Harvard hoops.]
Or BC athletics.
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
22,094
BigSoxFan said:
It's been an impressive fall from grace for Donahue. Now, he's literally falling. Awesome. As for Coop's question, we have 2 players who are worth a shit and probably overrated the rest. I mean, look at the rest of this roster:
 
Rahon - slow PG who apparently forgot how to shoot. Can't guard his shadow.
Jackson - slow, undersized SG whose one skill is shooting. And he's currently shooting 29% from the field. Very useful.
Odio - undersized PF with zero offensive skill - sometimes pretends he knows how to hit perimeter shots.
Drago - supposed to be a major contributor for the team and I'm still trying to figure out one good thing that he does.
Caudill - unathletic big man who can't get on the floor for a team that already is without its starting center. That says it all. Also, he's fat.
Heckmann - actually has a modicum of talent but his defense and decision-making is so poor that Donahue won't even play him. On a 4-10 team.
Owens - a guy with some actual athleticism. Unfortunately, that's about all he has right now.
Magarity - a beanpole who grabs 1 rebound every 11 minutes he's on the floor. Awesome.
Clifford - has the knees of a 60 year-old. Would have had a decent career at BC had he stayed healthy.
Hicks - that torn ACL was a blessing in disguise for him.
 
Simply put, this roster is mediocre on its best days and downright shitty on most others. Donahue has compiled a team full of soft, physically-underdeveloped pansies. And here's our 2014 recruiting class:
 
Matt Farrell - an unrated 6'1 PG with no major offers (he might be walking on)
 
And, finally, you have a control freak of a coach who is in way over his head and doesn't know which way is up. His assistants are all low level guys with no credibility on the AAU scene. Basically, we're fucked. The 2010s will be BC hoops' lost decade.
 
 
By the way I think Farrel actually dropped BC
 
But I think you are missing out on the positives with these guys.
 
Like did you know how well Magarrity can dribble between his legs.  
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
22,094
Well they closed hard and actually had chance after chance to tie or win, and failed.
 
Nice to see them play well in the second half,  on the other hand Clemson was expected  to battle VT for the bottom spot in the ACC
 
On the bright side,  the next game is at VT next Saturday
 
All they need is a 12-4 finish to reach NIT consideration :q:
 

Jeff Van GULLY

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
3,422
Captaincoop said:
No word about how the town hall meeting went?  I'm interested to hear how that went down.
 
 
http://soaringtoglory.com/2014/01/05/boston-college-basketball-town-hall-highlights/
 
 
 
 
 
 
That’s all it was, too: gameday experience. You know and I know that most of the people who went in there had what one man called the “five-million dollar question” in mind, but that was not going to be asked or answered. Bates stated in his opening monologue that “this is not about coaches or recruiting” and specifically asked about how Boston College can produce the best possible basketball fan experience.
 

berniecarbo1

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2008
1,518
Los Angeles, CA
Jeff Van GULLY said:
 
 
http://soaringtoglory.com/2014/01/05/boston-college-basketball-town-hall-highlights/
 
The answer is circular isn't it?  Unlike football which can hype pageantry and an all day vist to the campus, etc.,  In basketball isn't it  ALL about what's on the court?? If the prodcut sucks, there can be no game day experience. Brad...adopt the John Thompson apporach to recruiting and and basketabll operations and you will have more competitive teams....thereby leading to a better and more exciting game day experience.
 
 
 
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,268
Santa Monica, CA
Well, to be fair to Brad and Donahue, BC has put some pretty excellent teams on the court over the last twenty years and still had a lousy "gameday experience" most of the time.
 
It used to drive me nuts when we had a team that was competing for NCAA tourney bids, winning the Big East title, etc., and there would still be 3,000 people there for a weeknight conference game.
 

berniecarbo1

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2008
1,518
Los Angeles, CA
Captaincoop said:
Well, to be fair to Brad and Donahue, BC has put some pretty excellent teams on the court over the last twenty years and still had a lousy "gameday experience" most of the time.
 
It used to drive me nuts when we had a team that was competing for NCAA tourney bids, winning the Big East title, etc., and there would still be 3,000 people there for a weeknight conference game.
 
I'm not trying to be a jerk ( very difficult on my end) but is it p[ossible that BC is just NOT a basketball school?? As you say Captain, even when they had good, competitive teams the program didn't draw very well. Obviously if it went 24-4 or something like that every year and was a perennial Sweet 16 or Elite 8 team it might be different but really it has only done that in  spurts over the  years ( the Dudley years, Michael Adams and John Bagley way back when, Billy Curley teams) but nothing really consistent.
 
I think if you had a total mindset change and BC opted to "allow" that change to happen and they got a charismatic, young coach it might be different story. But as it is structured now, with Lousiville coming into the ACC next year and Syracuse, UNC, Duke already entrenched, and lesser teams who are still better  programs than BC (Pitt, Miami, NC State), where does BC fit in all this other than a schedule filler?
 
   As I have said many times, to me BC is to the ACC what Northwestern is to the B1G. It has generally a decent but not great football team with a generally mediocre/poor hoops team and a handful of OK olympic sports teams. Both schools are academically strong but are in pro sports towns and have geography and really no tradition, especially in hoops, working against them. The Wildcats rarely if ever get a Chicago kid ( Imean a real blue chip) for hoops and are competing not only against B1G schools but also BE schools in their backyard like DePaul and Marquette. Same thing with BC, they not only have to deal with Syracuse and other ACC schools, they have Providence and UConn snatching guys away from them. I find both programs very similar in many ways. As I said, unless they loosen the academic thing over there and either allow the "one and done" gig or admit less qualified kids and tutor and unlimit test them ala Georgetown in the Ewing days, they are an occasional nice story but predominently a second division program.
 

doldmoose34

impregnated Melissa Theuriau
SoSH Member
to parapharse my distant cousin Walt, 'i have seen the problem and  it is us'  you guys know that very few bleed more maroon and gold then I do, yet in the past few years I've been to ONE, yes ONE hop game,and that was the freebie after the football town hall meeting last Jan. 
 
youre gonna bang out Dook, UNC, and 'Cuse, but other then that youre depending on a 15 mile radius and need a competive team to draw more then flies, hell the students wont even go over for other then the  big games. and Media attention? we get what we get, look Harvard in still on the cusp of the top 25 and have you heard one peep about them or the job that Ammaker is doing there? me neither
 
I like the NW comparison Bernie
 

Dave Stapleton

Just A Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 11, 2001
7,763
Boston, MA
BC won its first ACC contest this weekend, an away game against Virginia Tech.
 
9 PM Tip against Syracuse tonight.
 
That's all I got at this point.
 

BoSoxFink

Stripes
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
7,153
South Park
BC is on fire from 3 point range right now and they are beating Syracuse 40-37 with 17 minutes to go right now. They probably can't keep the hot shooting up, but they've really played very well tonight.
 

BoSoxFink

Stripes
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
7,153
South Park
Well I think it may be slipping away from BC now. They hung on to the lead until just past the halfway point of the half but now they trail by 2 with just under 8 minutes left. Either way, at least they played better tonight and gave a good effort which is really, sadly all we can ask for with this team now.
 
Dec 10, 2012
6,943
That was one of the most impressive fan performances in the last 5-6 years, especially considering they may have been outnumbered by the non-students.  Great crowd. Even better student crowd.
 
BC just (obviously) doesn't have enough athletic talent to compete for 40 minutes against a team like Syracuse, even though Syracuse showed a lack of an offensive flow. They had what, 7 assists all game? The entire offense was off Grant and Keita 2nd chances, and Cooney stealing lazy passes and going on breakaways. CJ Fair is the only player (on SU) who I am convinced that basketball is his best sport.
 
BC had no intermediate game, and was woeful on FT's. But 45% 3PT shooting for 30 minutes will give you a chance. 
 
Donohue also pissed me off somehow, overcoaching or something, can't put my finger on it.
 
Grant was fun to watch, I must say.
 
Oh, and the Simon Sez guy was awesome.  One of the best halftime gimmicks I have ever seen.
 

Dave Stapleton

Just A Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 11, 2001
7,763
Boston, MA
So the building was rocking last night.  There were a lot of Syracuse fans but the students also showed up and were really into it.  There was actually a DJ in the student section.  If you've been to BC Basketball games in the past you are probably used to the same soundtrack.  Last night was different.  It was loud ... It was current.  It made a big difference in the overall atmosphere.  It seems like this was one of the things that came out of the recent town meeting. 
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
22,094
Shows you how little attention I pay sometimes.
 
Last night I was more focused on the Captain.   My lord,  he is all over the court.  How is he not picking up more technicals.   There were times yesterday that I thought he was setting up in the corner for the open jumper.   He was solidly 3 feet into the playing surface while the ball was being dribbled 25 feet away
 

BoSoxFink

Stripes
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
7,153
South Park
So is Donovan definitely gone? He better be! He has had his time to bring in some talent, and while he has brought in Hanlan who is a stud, he hasn't brought in much else other than Ryan Anderson who from what I've seen has been pretty mediocre this year as well.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2007
4,932
East Village, NYC
BC fans probably wouldn't be all that excited about going back to the Cornell coaching tree well for their next hire, but Zach Spiker at Army has that team playing at a level they haven't reached since Coach K left. He's a young guy with a big future.
 

mikcou

Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2007
331
Boston
BoSoxFink said:
So is Donovan definitely gone? He better be! He has had his time to bring in some talent, and while he has brought in Hanlan who is a stud, he hasn't brought in much else other than Ryan Anderson who from what I've seen has been pretty mediocre this year as well.
 
 
He'll be gone the day after the season ends and I'm sure he knows he's a dead man walking. Ryan Anderson is a nice player but horribly out of position trying to play center. 
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
6,362
giving the other team a free timeout with 3.4 seconds left down 1 is genius Donahue
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
22,094
The best part is he left what is probably his best defender (Owens) on the bench after the timeout, and had Lojack out on the court who covers less than a sting bikini on Kate Upton