I have tried so many times to argue this point, and this is much more clear and succinct than anything I’ve ever come up with, so thank you for this.
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Well I guess we can Giolito to the '25 Red Sox rotation.
This means we have lost 2 starters rotation and not made an addition that will see the field in '24
This means we have lost 2 starters rotation and not made an addition that will see the field in '24
So you're trying to equate a season in which the teams all knew it was 60 games to seasons in which all the teams knew there would be 102 more games after those first 60. Beautiful!
1972 - 155 game schedule
1981 - 108 game schedule
1995 - 144 game schedule
Since those years are legit, I assume, you could play your game with any season in which the Sox were in a playoff spot after 108, or 144, or 155 games too.
It's good to practice this, as whenever someone points to the Sox not having success recently, I'll be referring them to you.
Sure, just mention that I reject your argument as specious and absurd when you refer them.
Equivalent to agreeing up front that the marathon will be shortened to a mile, and calling the winner the marathon champion. The winner has indeed won something, but it wasn’t a marathon.
You're trying to make it sound like the regular season determines the champion. It doesn't.
Where is the postseason in your marathon analogy?
Everyone tells me the playoffs are a crapshoot and essentially meaningless. That is, except for 2020 when it supports a narrative of how great the Dodgers are.
My opinion is: congrats to the Dodgers for winning 2020. Now do it in a normal year.
More seriously, I think the regular season and the playoffs are great tests of a team’s ability and will to win. Any team that goes through these portals is a champion. (I don’t care how many games they won or their playoff W-L)
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So you assume that because someone is arguing that the 2020 title was legit, they're trying to "support a narrative of how great the Dodgers are".
Another bad faith argument.
While the 2020 season was definitely unique, every team played under the same rules and the Dodgers won. How is that illegitimate?
I mean are the Rangers illegitimate champions because the season was played with shorter distance between bases or with a Manfred-Man in the 10th inning??
I mean are the Rangers illegitimate champions because the season was played with shorter distance between bases or with a Manfred-Man in the 10th inning??
The playoffs should have been more of a crapshoot in 2020 with added playoff spots/rounds... and yet the two best teams still survived and made it to the World Series. A crapshoot doesn't mean you have to end up with the Rangers and Diamondbacks. Thinking it's any less legitimate because the best teams successfully ran the gauntlet would certainly be a take.
It seems absurd to me that folks are arguing that 2020, with a 60 game schedule, empty stands, and masks / social distancing in dugouts and bullpens is not an *asterisked year.
Sure, the Dodgers won. They get to fly the banner. Most of the Dodger fans I know in Los Angeles concede it “only kinda counts” and still feel they need to win a “real one” to make any comparisons to 1988.
Sure, the Dodgers won. They get to fly the banner. Most of the Dodger fans I know in Los Angeles concede it “only kinda counts” and still feel they need to win a “real one” to make any comparisons to 1988.
I dunno, I’d rather see the best teams stay fresh and healthy throughout rather than running out of gas in October, particularly since all anyone cares about is the postseason. I think it would increase fan interest as well and give people a reason to pay closer attention in July and August. It’d cut down on tanking, too. (I should note that I would support expanding the playoffs under this system.)
Also, do people really think this? Like, you all would happily watch an A’s-Rockies game in mid-September? (Actually, I believe some of you would. But I think it’s a minority position even among ostensible baseball fans)
Of course, to be fair 1988 is one of the all-time great World Series, so there’s thaat dimension too.
I can only speak for myself, but I hate when the season ends and when there are off days, so yeah? Part of the beauty of baseball is that there are pretty much games every day, all season long.
Cutting to ~136 games and playing from mid-April to mid-September would be perfect IMO, but it would never happen due to $$.
No, it wasn't. It had an all-time great Game 1 moment ... but after that it was nothing special
Something feels like it needs to change with rosters though. Those 162 were easier to manage for your staff when multiple people were going 30+ starts and 200+ innings.
Every day with no baseball is a day we have to watch the Boras show instead and that's excruciating.
Here's what I'd say:
If you called 2020 an asterisk season before the fact, you're entitled to call it an asterisk season after the fact. Fair's fair.
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I would watch a replay of an A's vs Rockies game in December over watching a live football game, so yes I do.
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This is so not true in the world I live in - which is LA. Every Dodgers fan I know (and it’s a lot) have said it’s a legit World Series victory and they get mad when you point out otherwise. All the Giants fans I know (which is a lot since I grew up in NorCal) say it doesn’t count and it’s ”not a real World Series title.” I don’t really care either way but if the Red Sox won, we’d 100% think it was legit.
It seems like it's the opposite. Pitchers got hurt less when they knew they had to throw 200+ innings and pace themselves. These days with a 13 man pitching staff, starters are only expected to go 5 and air it out the whole time, blowing out their elbows. The only reason there isn't an uproar over pitching injuries is that doctors are better at putting them back together than before. A UCL tear is expected rather than feared and teams deploy their pitchers with that mentality.
Isn’t there an idea out there to limit pitching staffs to 12? I think that would help.
Small correction: Dodgers won 4-1, but your point stands. Aside from Game 1, it was an almost forgettable WS.
Right thanks. It was on par with 2018: one all time classic game; a couple other close games; a boring game or 2.
To me it's a nuanced question, but something like 25 players opted out of the season entirely. How many more came back for the paycheck but mentally had one foot out the door? It was so far from a normal year. I guess the playoffs were playoffs but detached from the grind of the regular season... I dunno.
I'm not sure why a bunch of folks are going through these mental gymnastics to define whether the 2020 championship was legitimate or not. It is. Full stop. It's was part of a season, yes that was unusual compared to other seasons, that was recognized by the authority of Major League Baseball and played under, pretty much, the same rules that all MLB games are played under. Not only that but all 30 teams were playing under the same restrictions and rules.
I'm not sure what the debate is here. There was a World Series in 2020. The Los Angeles Dodgers defeated the Tampa Bay Ray in six games to win the Commissioner's Trophy. What's the argument?
Just because the Sox decided to completely punt 2020, doesn't mean that the season is null and void.
I'm not sure what the debate is here. There was a World Series in 2020. The Los Angeles Dodgers defeated the Tampa Bay Ray in six games to win the Commissioner's Trophy. What's the argument?
Just because the Sox decided to completely punt 2020, doesn't mean that the season is null and void.
Agreed. It is funny, though, that the Dodgers also won the Series in 1981
We obviously have different friends.
And, I never said it wasn’t legit. It just is what it is. They played 1/3 of a season in front of no fans for the first time in history. Not sure why people here are spending so much time doing mental gymnastics about it not being *different*.
Nobody's saying it wasn't different.We obviously have different friends.
And, I never said it wasn’t legit. It just is what it is. They played 1/3 of a season in front of no fans for the first time in history. Not sure why people here are spending so much time doing mental gymnastics about it not being *different*.
But 1972, 1981 and 1995 were different too.
A pandemic is arguably a much better justification for a shortened regular season than a labor dispute.
as a longtime Sox Fan, I completely disagree with this. I certainly would not have looked at a 2020 “title” as anything special. Why would I when I have the magic of 2004, the so solid and yet underrated 2007 team, the inspirational rally around your city 2013 team and the sheer dominance in 2018? without fans in stands, around a third of the games played, guys opting out of the season, guys testing positive, series being moved and postponed, 7 inning doubleheaders, a stop and go ST, I’d maybe say my Sox have won 4 1/2 titles this century. Maybe. sure, call it a “title” but I bet no one who was involved in their hearts thinks it’s totally legit. Some of the justification that it’s like any other WS win on here is laughable.
Not voting on the legitimacy of the LAD title, but I will point out that the Red Sox front office pretty much determined that 2020 baseball really wasn’t worth the trouble. Although I think they eventually decided that they had to have some sort of manager.
Would you like the 87-year drought ended with a covid championship? Freaking joke.
I guess there are no rumors anymore. I'm surprised no mod has moved all the Dodgers WS really Cool to its own thread. It's a real snooze of a discussion pour moi.
Yea - not sure what debating about the '20 World Series has to do with trade rumors in '24. I think it is a sign we are all tired of waiting.
This. Going to baseball games is, for me, a really great social activity. During the game I'm always chatting with my friends or family and even the strangers sitting near me. Plus, Fenway IS a cool experience, even though I've been there a ton.
Obviously it's way better when the team is good. Clearly. But when they're not, you still get to see some great action, and maybe see Mike Trout hit one 450 feet, which stinks as a Sox fan, but is still cool to see.
I think it would be easier to have the thread name changed to "Slush Pile"
In fairness the Vatican has already said that if Chris Sale makes 20+ starts he'll only need one more miracle to qualify for sainthood.
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