I’m here too. I also worry that BB staying as HC won’t have the right offensive coaches on staff. Would he still be making the call on coaching hires, or would it be the new GM?There were only two possibilities for me to decide between.
I first considered Option 2, but came to the conclusion that there's no chance of BB allowing it to happen, or it working without turmoil ensuing.
Therefore, I chose Option 4 -- clean slate, honor the past without trying to hang onto it with a legacy hire.
I don’t understand the concern of him hiring coaches. Is that all based on last year? It was certainly a low point in that regard, but I also think they got caught without great external options. But otherwise, I think his hires have been very solid throughout his tenure, including BOB this year. Who hasn’t, in my view, been the problem with the offense.I’m here too. I also worry that BB staying as HC won’t have the right offensive coaches on staff. Would he still be making the call on coaching hires, or would it be the new GM?
I think it’s time to just cut the cord.
Cam Achord has not exactly covered himself in glory. Nor has Klemm. Unsure if Troy Brown has any positive influence. I agree it's been good on D - Flores, Mayo, his sons, even Josh Boyer appears to be a good coach. I just worry he's only going to hire his guys and they need some new ideas on offense.I don’t understand the concern of him hiring coaches. Is that all based on last year? It was certainly a low point in that regard, but I also think they got caught without great external options. But otherwise, I think his hires have been very solid throughout his tenure, including BOB this year. Who hasn’t, in my view, been the problem with the offense.
Agree with Achord, but I don't think you can blame Klemm for the offensive line woes. Crappy personnel options, with a ton of injuries. 5 different guys lining up in different spots every week (except center of course). It is impossible to be consistent with that constant rotation. O-line guys depend on each other, and with a steady line, each guy knows what the other is going to do.Cam Achord has not exactly covered himself in glory. Nor has Klemm. Unsure if Troy Brown has any positive influence. I agree it's been good on D - Flores, Mayo, his sons, even Josh Boyer appears to be a good coach. I just worry he's only going to hire his guys and they need some new ideas on offense.
I agree 2 isn’t happening so chose 1. Belichick is an intelligent person. He knows this roster is rough and knows he has to do better. Yes this didn’t happen overnight and it is a case of multiple mistakes over the years but it took this year to really appreciate how bad it got and it will take time for it to get better. Bill deserves a chance to fix the roster.There were only two possibilities for me to decide between.
I first considered Option 2, but came to the conclusion that there's no chance of BB allowing it to happen, or it working without turmoil ensuing.
Therefore, I chose Option 4 -- clean slate, honor the past without trying to hang onto it with a legacy hire.
Told by who? I hear it on here and occasionally from other fans but that seems more projecting their own feelings. Haven't seen any real reporting on it.I mean one of the main reasons why BB is sticking around is to pass Shula; at least that's what we're told.
1,2,4,3 is the correct sequence imo as a Pats fan.Option #3, but from the perspective of a non-Pats fan. If I was pretending to be a Patriots fan I'd rank order the options 1,2, 4, 3.
But really, I think the best Pats fan option would be a cross between 1 and 2 where the Patriots bring in a strong GM that BB respects, but BB still has final say. I don't think BB would ever agree to a strong GM who has final say.
I think BB would benefit greatly from stronger voices in the room.
Gotcha, that’s fair enough. Hard to say how much has been Klemm, and how much has been lack of talent and injuries. Can’t argue Achord. I do think if Bill has time, which they should with no playoffs, and a decent pool available, I would still trust him to make sound coaching hires. I do not however, trust when him it comes to offensive personnel moves.Cam Achord has not exactly covered himself in glory. Nor has Klemm. Unsure if Troy Brown has any positive influence. I agree it's been good on D - Flores, Mayo, his sons, even Josh Boyer appears to be a good coach. I just worry he's only going to hire his guys and they need some new ideas on offense.
The thread is what you want vs. what you think so you probably answered correctly according to the premise of the thread. I’m not going to cry if #1 happens but I’d go into this offseason a little nervous about BB’s execution and would hope to be proven wrong.I voted for 2 but am also fine with 1. I also know that 2 will probably never ever happen, so maybe I should've just answered 1.
I've been trying to bridge the gap between "Do your job" and Belichick having like ten responsibilities for years. Expecting to have final say on all personnel as well as leading the coaching org is like a safety who's simultaneously blitzing and trying to cover the deep zone. You can't do both. The fact that he doesn't see this as an issue is why I voted 4 - let him micromanage somewhere else, bring his merry band of yes men, and start over with a fresh perspective.Why should BB hold himself to a different standard?
The media. I mean BB is never going to say it but it seems like the media figures that know BB the best say it’s something he wants. There’s enough smoke here to think there’s probably a fire.Told by who? I hear it on here and occasionally from other fans but that seems more projecting their own feelings. Haven't seen any real reporting on it.
Also, if there is one thing Belichick has proven over time is that he has always looked at more than just a single season.
I mean... yes you can, in fact he can, we know because he did it for more than 2 decades and it was the best results any franchise has ever hadI've been trying to bridge the gap between "Do your job" and Belichick having like ten responsibilities for years. Expecting to have final say on all personnel as well as leading the coaching org is like a safety who's simultaneously blitzing and trying to cover the deep zone. You can't do both. The fact that he doesn't see this as an issue is why I voted 4 - let him micromanage somewhere else, bring his merry band of yes men, and start over with a fresh perspective.
Personally, I can spend a lot of time complaining about Bill’s offense building (or lack there of) while also being fine with Bill getting one last shot to fix it.I'm pretty shocked almost half are voting for running it back based on a lot of the posts in the forum.
To your point, Bill Cowher stated pretty emphatically in a recent interview that he thinks BB wants the record. See the below clip starting at the 5:50 mark. He’s good friends with Bill, and even tries to qualify his take, presumably to give Bill plausible deniability - it’s a pretty credible source.The media. I mean BB is never going to say it but it seems like the media figures that know BB the best say it’s something he wants. There’s enough smoke here to think there’s probably a fire.
He had a quarterback named Tom Brady who made up for a lot of his mishits. He also, for a lot of the run, had people like Ernie Adams and Dante Scarnecchia who were voices that he respected and also filled in the gaps that maybe he wasn't good at (considering the Patriots have never been able to find an even average offensive line coach in Scar's absence). There were a lot of people involved with that 20 year run, many of the best and smartest have left the org, and BB has not capably backfilled them.I mean... yes you can, in fact he can, we know because he did it for more than 2 decades and it was the best results any franchise has ever had
Maybe? But that's not really relevant to your statement that you can't be the coach and have final personnel say, you very obviously can, we've seen it succeed for a very long time.He had a quarterback named Tom Brady who made up for a lot of his mishits. He also, for a lot of the run, had people like Ernie Adams and Dante Scarnecchia who were voices that he respected and also filled in the gaps that maybe he wasn't good at (considering the Patriots have never been able to find an even average offensive line coach in Scar's absence). There were a lot of people involved with that 20 year run, many of the best and smartest have left the org, and BB has not capably backfilled them.
It's great that BB was the leader when they won all those titles, but he can't do it alone going forward and IMO it seems like he thinks he can.
It seems pretty relevant when the people supporting him coaching and on the personnel side aren't as capable as they were previously. But I'll amend my statement if you want to say "this iteration of Bill Belichick can't do it" and I think that because he has way more responsibilities than he had at any point in the last 20 years.Maybe? But that's not really relevant to your statement that you can't be the coach and have final personnel say, you very obviously can, we've seen it succeed for a very long time.
This was my point as well. I think there needs to be another option (1b) where he stays in both capacities and they strengthen the talent in the FO.It seems pretty relevant when the people supporting him coaching and on the personnel side aren't as capable as they were previously. But I'll amend my statement if you want to say "this iteration of Bill Belichick can't do it" and I think that because he has way more responsibilities than he had at any point in the last 20 years.
Daniel Jones, Mac Jones, and Jimmy Garropollo.The lowest-scoring offenses in the NFL are the Giants, Pats, and Raiders. What is the connection between these teams?
Somewhat to this point, I can’t see many folks lining up to (i) follow in Belichick’s footsteps and (ii) do it without a QB or a clear path to a franchise QB. We all saw how hard it was for someone to follow Brady. I think the evidence is pretty clear to this point that QB is the most important position in the organization, but the rest of the pieces separate good from championship caliber.My .02 is that BB is 71 year old dude who has managed to have success for a long time because of his ability to adapt and adjust. He may be slow but I find it hard to believe he has been at this so long by always doing the same thing. I obviously think he is still capable.
I also have little faith that this job will get a ton of interest from the best candidates. The rebuild is probably harder than, say, Jacksonville. I am guessing the next regime will want a completely blank slate and yet the pressure/expectations to succeed will be immense.
In short, we may end up with a long fallow period regardless but to me BB is still the guy who gives the franchise the best shot to contend sooner but that may well be wrong.