Jaylen Brown: Will he be enough in Year 8?

lexrageorge

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,379
I'm not sure HRB is saying that Jaylen Brown is going to adopt the Golden Corral diet and collect his paycheck while periodically making an appearance on the basketball court. He seems like the type that will continue to stay obsessively motivated to be the best player he can be.

But there are a lot of hurdles to JB making 2nd team All-NBA again, especially with the position-less voting and 65 game requirement. The latter is a big one, IMO, as the team is going to do everything it can to be sure Brown is healthy for the playoffs, and that does tend to lead to more floating holidays as players age.

Even if we take the more positive views of Brown's game here, that Brown is a Top 20-25 player in the NBA (a take I agree with), it's still not close to a slam dunk he would be voted into the Top 10 in the future.
 
Myt1

Myt1

educated, civility-loving ass
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 13, 2006
42,294
South Boston
Deathofthebambino said:
And this fucking team needs to run, and run and run like their fucking hair is on fire.

That's what I think we're going to see so much more of this year with White running point instead of Smart. White gets the rock and he pushes almost constantly. This team in the open court can be almost unstoppable.
Click to expand...
1000x this. They are so fucking long and athletic that 2-3 defensive stops and/or quick rebounds can really, really put the pressure on a team if they run. If it’s a transition 3-pointer or two or three of them, they’re hard to keep up with.
 
Jimbodandy

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,794
around the way
lexrageorge said:
I'm not sure HRB is saying that Jaylen Brown is going to adopt the Golden Corral diet and collect his paycheck while periodically making an appearance on the basketball court. He seems like the type that will continue to stay obsessively motivated to be the best player he can be.

But there are a lot of hurdles to JB making 2nd team All-NBA again, especially with the position-less voting and 65 game requirement. The latter is a big one, IMO, as the team is going to do everything it can to be sure Brown is healthy for the playoffs, and that does tend to lead to more floating holidays as players age.

Even if we take the more positive views of Brown's game here, that Brown is a Top 20-25 player in the NBA (a take I agree with), it's still not close to a slam dunk he would be voted into the Top 10 in the future.
Click to expand...
I don't think that you're going to get much of an argument from most people here. It was a perfect storm of Jaylen playing as well as he ever has, the team peaking, and a lot of guys who would normally be ahead of him either crapping on themselves or sitting out due to rest, old age, or injury. The implication that Jaylen's nice run was contract-driven is lazy imo. That he got a bit lucky is certainly fair.
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,692
Santa Monica
Jimbodandy said:
I don't think that you're going to get much of an argument from most people here. It was a perfect storm of Jaylen playing as well as he ever has, the team peaking, and a lot of guys who would normally be ahead of him either crapping on themselves or sitting out due to rest, old age, or injury. The implication that Jaylen's nice run was contract-driven is lazy imo. That he got a bit lucky is certainly fair.
Click to expand...
I have zero worries about Jaylen's motivation or effort. My only concern with the contract is the pressure he may put on himself to live up to the "biggest contract ever" hype
 
TripleOT

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,936
JB getting some tabloid treatment.
Synopsis:
Allegedly dating a “grandmother“ age 43, Bernice Burgos, who has a daughter slightly older than JB
She is a model, influencer, and has a fashion line
She had been linked to various other celebs, including Drake
She formerly was a bartender at the same club where CardiB worked (apparently they don’t do their hiring over the phone)

https://nypost.com/2023/07/26/meet-jaylen-browns-rumored-girlfriend-who-is-a-grandmother/
 
Jimbodandy

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,794
around the way
benhogan said:
I have zero worries about Jaylen's motivation or effort. My only concern with the contract is the pressure he may put on himself to live up to the "biggest contract ever" hype
Click to expand...
He knows better than anyone that it's a percentage of the cap and how the raises and bird rights shit works. He's a VP in the union. I'd be surprised if low-information sports media content affects his mindset.
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,692
Santa Monica
Jimbodandy said:
He knows better than anyone that it's a percentage of the cap and how the raises and bird rights shit works. He's a VP in the union. I'd be surprised if low-information sports media content affects his mindset.
Click to expand...
"low-information sports media content" that basically covers TNT, ESPN, Disney, & Boston sports radio/pods.
Throw in the other 29 NBA cities interested in watching the C's fail and Jaylen's only safe zone is the Cellar, JJ Redick & Jared Weiss.

He wouldn't be the first athlete to feel the pressure of a contract, which probably speaks more to him caring about playing well.
 
DGreenwood

DGreenwood

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 2, 2003
2,487
Seattle
It's a bit weird because I think Brown is above average at finishing with his left hand but below average at dribbling with his left. It's common knowledge that teams want to force him left, it almost makes me think he misunderstood the issue and has put his effort into getting better at finishing with his left.

That's obviously pure speculation but I can't think of another wing who is so good finishing left handed layups but turns the ball over so much dribbling left. There are tons of examples of players that have no issue going left but then they finish on the left side of the rim with their right hand.
 
Deathofthebambino

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,267
DGreenwood said:
It's a bit weird because I think Brown is above average at finishing with his left hand but below average at dribbling with his left. It's common knowledge that teams want to force him left, it almost makes me think he misunderstood the issue and has put his effort into getting better at finishing with his left.

That's obviously pure speculation but I can't think of another wing who is so good finishing left handed layups but turns the ball over so much dribbling left. There are tons of examples of players that have no issue going left but then they finish on the left side of the rim with their right hand.
Click to expand...
Then there's Brogdon, who I think goes right and finishes with his left more than anyone I've ever noticed in green.
 
RorschachsMask

RorschachsMask

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2011
5,660
Lynn
IMO, Jaylen is a slightly above ball handler as a 3, slightly below average as a 2.

I think it’s way more about his recognition and feel for the game. If he has the ball at the top of the key against a set defense, it’s asking for a turnover or a meh shot. The less Jaylen does or has to do, the better he is. Not everybody has to be a big process the defense guy. I’d prefer his usage a little closer to 27-28%, he’d still put up the exact same scoring numbers.

DHO’s with him and KP should be a weapon, get Jaylen going downhill against a moving defense.
 
GeorgeCostanza

GeorgeCostanza

tiger king
SoSH Member
May 16, 2009
7,287
Go f*ck yourself
Deathofthebambino said:
Then there's Brogdon, who I think goes right and finishes with his left more than anyone I've ever noticed in green.
Click to expand...
And he’s damn good at it. And often finishes with his right when he goes left. It’s a quicker/shorter way to get the shot up since the off hand is closer to the hoop and allows him to get up and under some of the bigger defenders in the paint.
 
Pablo's TB Lover

Pablo's TB Lover

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 10, 2017
6,084
That's pretty cool, it is a thankless task in that journalists tend to get railed for making non-consensus votes but the proper votes aren't acknowledged. By sending the letter from 7uice Jaylen's expressing the additional millions due to the All NBA vote is going to his foundation to lift others up.
 
DGreenwood

DGreenwood

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 2, 2003
2,487
Seattle
If you have an Athletic subscription you can check out Seth Partnow's new 2023 NBA player tiers. Jaylen is in tier 3a along with Bam, JJJ, Donovan Mitchell, Anthony Edwards, and DeAaron Fox. This group represents players ranked 19-24 in the NBA.

Here's the write up on Jaylen:
Jaylen Brown and Anthony Edwards are higher than their regular-season metrics might indicate. Over the past three years, they have been 99th and 128th in RAPM, respectively, while both have hovered right around league-average efficiency in their careers. But both have games that have translated well to the postseason, more definitely in the case of Brown, as he’s played nearly 10 times as many playoff games (105) as Edwards (11).

Their physicality and elite, quick-burst athleticism mean they have the chance to overwhelm even a perfectly schemed defense. Both have limitations — Edwards’ inconsistency as a jump shooter and decision-maker and Brown’s shaky handle in traffic would have to be rectified for either to progress higher — but even with those foibles, they have still been highly effective.
Click to expand...
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,939
Makes and misses aside, Jaylen's 3ball looks soft again. It flattened out a lot last year and got line-drivey; maybe an over-adjustment to what works in the midrange.
 
Euclis20

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,508
Imaginationland
Sharing the court with several legit scoring threats (as opposed to just Tatum) should help open up the floor for him as well, both in terms of better 3 point looks and more open lanes to drive. He's not remotely the passer that Tatum is (who I think could average 6-7 assists per game this year with the new scoring optionts), but once he gets acclimated, I think his efficiency will take a nice jump.

Anecdotally, Brown appears to have gotten a bit bigger this offseason. We'll see how it effects him (he seemed to be moving at 3/4 speed at times in the preseason, but hasn't had any trouble getting to the rim and guys are just bouncing off him).
 
J

jablo1312

New Member
Sep 20, 2005
1,026
relatively uninvolved JB performance last night- 11 points on 11 shots (0-4 from 3), 5-2 asst-turnovers. It did feel like he was mostly left out of the offense when the top 6 were on the floor (still played 38 minutes). I'll be interested to see how Mazzulla manages his minutes over the 1st quarter of the season (he got some run w/ the bench last night, kind of a sketchy propisition though as I'd expect that lineup to bleed points).
 
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
10,488
jablo1312 said:
relatively uninvolved JB performance last night- 11 points on 11 shots (0-4 from 3), 5-2 asst-turnovers. It did feel like he was mostly left out of the offense when the top 6 were on the floor (still played 38 minutes). I'll be interested to see how Mazzulla manages his minutes over the 1st quarter of the season (he got some run w/ the bench last night, kind of a sketchy propisition though as I'd expect that lineup to bleed points).
Click to expand...
JB should always be playing with one of White/Holiday and Horford/Porzingis.

Joe had a line-up of Brown, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford out there last night. That’s just a recipe for disaster. He should never be out there with a line-up like that. I think it’s a risky proposition for Tatum too but Tatum at least can distribute the ball more effectively than Brown can.

(I also hope to never see double big with Kornet against a quality opponent again.)
 
Jimbodandy

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,794
around the way
tbb345 said:
JB should always be playing with one of White/Holiday and Horford/Porzingis.

Joe had a line-up of Brown, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford out there last night. That’s just a recipe for disaster. He should never be out there with a line-up like that. I think it’s a risky proposition for Tatum too but Tatum at least can distribute the ball more effectively than Brown can.

(I also hope to never see double big with Kornet against a quality opponent again.)
Click to expand...
Agree completely on this, and I'm a huge Jaylenphile. Another guard who makes good decisions, either JH or DW, and that lineup is fine. Swap out either Kornet or Pritchard there.
 
chilidawg

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
6,272
Cultural hub of the universe
tbb345 said:
JB should always be playing with one of White/Holiday and Horford/Porzingis.

Joe had a line-up of Brown, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford out there last night. That’s just a recipe for disaster. He should never be out there with a line-up like that. I think it’s a risky proposition for Tatum too but Tatum at least can distribute the ball more effectively than Brown can.

(I also hope to never see double big with Kornet against a quality opponent again.)
Click to expand...
From the BB ref +/- box score it looks like 2nd half of the 3rd quarter Brown was out there with Horford, White, Hauser and one of Kornet/KP. That group was +6 over about 5 minutes. Ist half the non Tatum minutes were more neutral, with it being more of a mix of guys rotating through. Brown played all the non Tatum minutes I think. For the game the C's were +4 in the non Tatum minutes and -4 when Brown sat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/plus-minus/202310250NYK.html
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,939
chilidawg said:
From the BB ref +/- box score it looks like 2nd half of the 3rd quarter Brown was out there with Horford, White, Hauser and one of Kornet/KP. That group was +6 over about 5 minutes. Ist half the non Tatum minutes were more neutral, with it being more of a mix of guys rotating through. Brown played all the non Tatum minutes I think. For the game the C's were +4 in the non Tatum minutes and -4 when Brown sat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/plus-minus/202310250NYK.html
Click to expand...
That group in the 3rd was a big part of winning the game, and JB was great in it.

I think people are generally too eager to focus on what he can't do rather than on what he can (and I'm in the "trade JB summer 2024" camp).
 
BigSoxFan

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,458
lovegtm said:
That group in the 3rd was a big part of winning the game, and JB was great in it.

I think people are generally too eager to focus on what he can't do rather than on what he can (and I'm in the "trade JB summer 2024" camp).
Click to expand...
I view it a little differently. The guy is making $60M now and just made All NBA last year. I’m grading Jaylen on a curve. I expect more from him. He doesn’t need to be Tatum, he’ll never be that good, but he should routinely impact games more than guys like Jrue and White.

So, when he’s playing passively, making careless errors, not paying attention on D, dribbling like he has a cast on both hands, it gets frustrating at times.

The “good” version of JB is very good. When we see that version with “good” JT, this team doesn’t lose often.
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,939
BigSoxFan said:
I view it a little differently. The guy is making $60M now and just made All NBA last year. I’m grading Jaylen on a curve. I expect more from him. He doesn’t need to be Tatum, he’ll never be that good, but he should routinely impact games more than guys like Jrue and White.

So, when he’s playing passively, making careless errors, not paying attention on D, dribbling like he has a cast on both hands, it gets frustrating at times.

The “good” version of JB is very good. When we see that version with “good” JT, this team doesn’t lose often.
Click to expand...
Minor but sort of important nitpick: he's making $31M now, less than KP and Jrue. He's good value in his current role.

He needs to preserve his trade value ofc, but the $60M part hasn't kicked in yet.
 
BigSoxFan

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,458
lovegtm said:
Minor but sort of important nitpick: he's making $31M now, less than KP and Jrue. He's good value in his current role.

He needs to preserve his trade value ofc, but the $60M part hasn't kicked in yet.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was too lazy to edit to make more clear but the fact that he got the contract means expectations are higher, even if the cash hasn’t come in yet. But I’m sure there will be plenty of games where “good” Jaylen shows us and reminds us why he got the bag in the first place.
 
benhogan

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,692
Santa Monica
tbb345 said:
JB should always be playing with one of White/Holiday and Horford/Porzingis.

Joe had a line-up of Brown, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford out there last night. That’s just a recipe for disaster. He should never be out there with a line-up like that. I think it’s a risky proposition for Tatum too but Tatum at least can distribute the ball more effectively than Brown can.

(I also hope to never see double big with Kornet against a quality opponent again.)
Click to expand...
Yea agree with your line of thought.

I'd like to see Jaylen play with Horford, Jrue, White & Stevens

Let Pritchard/Hauser bombers spread the floor with Porzingis/Tatum + White or Jrue

I'm fine with PP/Hauser getting their 3pt stroke together, but Kornet is really struggling to add value. He's tall and easily gets pushed around, CJMs leash will keep on getting shorter if he doesn't wake up
 
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
10,488
BigSoxFan said:
I view it a little differently. The guy is making $60M now and just made All NBA last year. I’m grading Jaylen on a curve. I expect more from him. He doesn’t need to be Tatum, he’ll never be that good, but he should routinely impact games more than guys like Jrue and White.

So, when he’s playing passively, making careless errors, not paying attention on D, dribbling like he has a cast on both hands, it gets frustrating at times.

The “good” version of JB is very good. When we see that version with “good” JT, this team doesn’t lose often.
Click to expand...
Isn't there a flip side to that coin? He made All-NBA so shouldn't he get a longer leash than one regular season game before people want to destroy him?

(Just to cut this off at the knees, I know the All-NBA selection was due to injuries and getting a favorable positional boost. Ok, so he's a top 30 player, the point still stands.)

I also understand that recency bias is a very real thing and the last time we saw him in anything other than a pre-season game, he was vomiting all over himself in a Game 7.

I get the frustration, trust me, every single player on the team can frustrate me at least a few times a game. What bothers me is that Brown gets a disproportionate amount of criticism/hate, and I don't mean the people who are raising some concerns about how he will fit in a more egalitarian offense, that's fair. It's not hard to find the type of criticism I am talking about.
 
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
10,488
chilidawg said:
From the BB ref +/- box score it looks like 2nd half of the 3rd quarter Brown was out there with Horford, White, Hauser and one of Kornet/KP. That group was +6 over about 5 minutes. Ist half the non Tatum minutes were more neutral, with it being more of a mix of guys rotating through. Brown played all the non Tatum minutes I think. For the game the C's were +4 in the non Tatum minutes and -4 when Brown sat.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/plus-minus/202310250NYK.html
Click to expand...
The time I am thinking of was in the 2nd quarter. It looks like the line-up was Horford, Pritchard, White and Kornet. For some reason, I really don't remember White being out there, but I guess he was.

I am kind of struggling to put an exact amount on the time they were on the court together based off of that graph but, from the eye test, it was an absolute disaster. It's listed as a -3 in the graph (but again, I am not sure how many minutes it was)
 
Euclis20

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,508
Imaginationland
On the $60M, it's fun to note that Jaylen won't actually earn that much in a single season until 2028. At which point I assume there will be at least a dozen other guys making similar amounts or greater. His salary has always been much ado about nothing, and everyone in the media knows this (and acknowledges it) while at the same time hammering him for it. It's an odd dynamic.
 
Jimbodandy

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,794
around the way
tbb345 said:
Isn't there a flip side to that coin? He made All-NBA so shouldn't he get a longer leash than one regular season game before people want to destroy him?

(Just to cut this off at the knees, I know the All-NBA selection was due to injuries and getting a favorable positional boost. Ok, so he's a top 30 player, the point still stands.)

I also understand that recency bias is a very real thing and the last time we saw him in anything other than a pre-season game, he was vomiting all over himself in a Game 7.

I get the frustration, trust me, every single player on the team can frustrate me at least a few times a game. What bothers me is that Brown gets a disproportionate amount of criticism/hate, and I don't mean the people who are raising some concerns about how he will fit in a more egalitarian offense, that's fair. It's not hard to find the type of criticism I am talking about.
Click to expand...
I've given up on that. When he has a bad game, they look at the stats. When he has a great game, it's all "wow, Jaylen only had 2 TOs, it seemed like a lot more. I was also shocked that he had 22 points on only 9 shots, go figure."

I feel like I'm talking to the "Danny bit Tree Rollins" folks or the "Bill Belichick taped the Rams walkthrough" people sometimes. C'est la vie.
 
BigSoxFan

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,458
tbb345 said:
Isn't there a flip side to that coin? He made All-NBA so shouldn't he get a longer leash than one regular season game before people want to destroy him?

(Just to cut this off at the knees, I know the All-NBA selection was due to injuries and getting a favorable positional boost. Ok, so he's a top 30 player, the point still stands.)

I also understand that recency bias is a very real thing and the last time we saw him in anything other than a pre-season game, he was vomiting all over himself in a Game 7.

I get the frustration, trust me, every single player on the team can frustrate me at least a few times a game. What bothers me is that Brown gets a disproportionate amount of criticism/hate, and I don't mean the people who are raising some concerns about how he will fit in a more egalitarian offense, that's fair. It's not hard to find the type of criticism I am talking about.
Click to expand...
Sure. He is absolutely getting hurt by people seeing Tatum’s greatness and comparing it to Jaylen. He’s also made some off-the-court missteps (and there are good things on that front too, if we’re being fair) that could factor into peoples’ perception of him.

But many of the criticisms of Brown’s game are valid, IMO. Pointing those out when they’re occurring shouldn’t be off limits as long as people are being fair with the praise when he plays well.

The good thing about sports is narratives can change quickly. We are at our best when he’s rolling. And he was quite good in the Warriors Game 6 that closed us out so it’s not like he’s some playoff choker or anything.
 
tims4wins

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
38,447
Hingham, MA
Re: "he only had 2 turnovers" let's not forget literally the 2nd possession of the game when JB threw it directly to the Knicks, but they fumbled it out of bounds. It's that type of shit that is ridiculously irritating. If I knew how to post / link it I would but it was BRUTAL for anyone with DVR or YTTV.

He gets the ball at the top of the key, drives right past a KP screen, into the teeth of the defense, gets caught mid air, and then just chucks it to RJ Barrett. It's just an unacceptable type of play from anyone, let alone a supermax guy.
 
Deathofthebambino

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,267
Jimbodandy said:
I've given up on that. When he has a bad game, they look at the stats. When he has a great game, it's all "wow, Jaylen only had 2 TOs, it seemed like a lot more. I was also shocked that he had 22 points on only 9 shots, go figure."

I feel like I'm talking to the "Danny bit Tree Rollins" folks or the "Bill Belichick taped the Rams walkthrough" people sometimes. C'est la vie.
Click to expand...
True dat.

Jaylen played 38 minutes last night, covering mostly the best scorers the Knicks have, and the C's only gave up 104 points (the Knicks averaged 116/game last year) and 54 of those points came from behind the arc, on mostly contested 3's, and folks are still randomly dropping in comments about his defense last night.

I personally watched him all night on the floor last night, and I thought he played excellent defense for almost the entire game. He missed a few assignments off ball, but so did literally everyone else on the team. It's like if Jaylen wasn't out there, opposing teams would score zero points, because apparently, only Jaylen is the guy anyone ever scores on.
 
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
10,488
BigSoxFan said:
Sure. He is absolutely getting hurt by people seeing Tatum’s greatness and comparing it to Jaylen. He’s also made some off-the-court missteps (and there are good things on that front too, if we’re being fair) that could factor into peoples’ perception of him.

But many of the criticisms of Brown’s game are valid, IMO. Pointing those out when they’re occurring shouldn’t be off limits as long as people are being fair with the praise when he plays well.

The good thing about sports is narratives can change quickly. We are at our best when he’s rolling. And he was quite good in the Warriors Game 6 that closed us out so it’s not like he’s some playoff choker or anything.
Click to expand...
I had a long post typed out for this, but bottom line here is the bolded. I 100% agree, but I would also like to add the caveat that the praise should be the same as the criticism..so praise without caveats.

IE, if he has a great game, it shouldn't be "Well, Jaylen was 14-22 and 3-6 from 3...but there was that one play where he lost Julius Randle off ball and then he dunked!" because Lord knows I am not seeing many "Jesus, Jaylen had a TERRIBLE 60 seconds but he did have 5 assists".

EDIT: My overall issue is that I hate when people don't call things down the middle. Honestly, it bothers me too much. I am fine with criticizing whoever when it's warranted (especially in a game thread). I'm not talking about you @BigSoxFan but there's a decent sized contingent here that will criticize Jaylen no matter what and not do the same for other players. That's what annoys the shit out of me and why I always seemingly stick up for him.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom