Celtics vs 76ers, Round 2 Discussion
- Thread starter DeadlySplitter
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The quotes read even worse in context.
Marcus:
In Jay King's tweet, the bolded was paraphrased as "come under fire."
Jaylen:
Maybe this is reading into it too much, but the fact that he said the bolded about the lineup change and not just about Rob's play in the abstract seems... pointed.
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Smart said what some of us have been posting and what has been pretty obvious, CJM is a puppy still prone to pissing on the rug.
Smart was honest and direct. Some here will call it "Marcus speak" and dismiss it, but it's been a real issue all year.
Smart was honest and direct. Some here will call it "Marcus speak" and dismiss it, but it's been a real issue all year.
From the Globe:
The NBA announced Thursday night there were two potential start times for Sunday’s Game 7 between the Celtics and Sixers.
If a Game 7 is necessary for the Lakers-Warriors series — which Los Angeles currently leads, 3-2, with Game 6 set for Friday night in L.A. — Boston and Philadelphia will tip off Sunday at 8 p.m.
If the Lakers wrap up the series on Friday night, Game 7 between the Celtics and Sixers will start Sunday at 3:30 p.m.
The NBA announced Thursday night there were two potential start times for Sunday’s Game 7 between the Celtics and Sixers.
If a Game 7 is necessary for the Lakers-Warriors series — which Los Angeles currently leads, 3-2, with Game 6 set for Friday night in L.A. — Boston and Philadelphia will tip off Sunday at 8 p.m.
If the Lakers wrap up the series on Friday night, Game 7 between the Celtics and Sixers will start Sunday at 3:30 p.m.
Philly countered the move successully late in this game - by putting Maxey instead of Tucker in the corner, got Mazzulla to remove Rob for a bit.
I feel like last year before his injury, Rob could do those closeouts, but not so much this year.
NBA should tip off Celtics-76ers at noon as homage to the Wilt-Russell era.
This series fits right into the long playoff history of these two franchises. Embiid is Wilt and Boston still beats you with defense and depth.
This series fits right into the long playoff history of these two franchises. Embiid is Wilt and Boston still beats you with defense and depth.
I felt the same way about Brogdon's 3s early after the6ers erased the early lead.
Yup, a couple aspects there:
1. Melton was in for Tucker, otherwise Rob would have just roamed off Tucker regardless. There isn't a good way to play Rob off the floor if Tucker is out there; has to be Melton or Niang.
2. Rob's technique there was god-awful and lazy. Horford had Harden mostly contained, and Rob just lazily took a step to the paint, with footwork totally unprepared to recover, which set up the terrible closeout. Players have to execute to make any scheme work.
3. Having Melton and Niang out there instead of Tucker let the Celtics go at those guys consistently down the stretch to get good shots.
Doc played his Melton/Niang card to get Rob off the floor late, and Tatum roasted it (helped by good execution from Smart/Brown/Brogdon). I bet they go back to Tucker in game 7 and just try to execute better, but if they don't, the Cs are going to need to be ready to put up serious points, because Philly has ways to get Rob off if they want.
Here are the clips for those sequences, starting with Maxey's dunk:
View: https://twitter.com/stevejones20/status/1656843473817853953?s=20
Honestly this made me think of the way Rondo was spoken about in 2008...
I wonder how this relates to the late game timeouts too. Obviously players can call those as well, so can't just lay the blame on Joe. If the players are essentially running things, then they must also want to aver the time outs in those situations.
This somehow feels much like last years team. The offense can be stopped, there are too many turnovers, White hasn't produced as expected, and to the extent Brogdon has made a difference he has offset inconsistent play from Tatum and Brown.
I do think it is imperative that the Celtics push the ball against the Sixers. They did it more yesterday, and it felt like, midway through Q4, Philly was just done.
I do think it is imperative that the Celtics push the ball against the Sixers. They did it more yesterday, and it felt like, midway through Q4, Philly was just done.
The thing I worry about with 2bigs is whether Horford and TL have the minutes in them. I thought we might have to see Grant/Muscala/gasp Kornet last night but Horford played something like 39 minutes I think. That’s a lot of minutes in such a physical game.
One thing I found really interesting was how often you could see Embiid not going for the block to respect the lob. I would say, though, I feel like either the team has weirdly gotten much worse with the lob passes, or Rob’s ability to catch anything thrown his way has diminished a bit.
One thing I found really interesting was how often you could see Embiid not going for the block to respect the lob. I would say, though, I feel like either the team has weirdly gotten much worse with the lob passes, or Rob’s ability to catch anything thrown his way has diminished a bit.
A major problem, offensively, for Boston, is Horford's inability to drain 3s (4 for 28 in 5 of the 6 games). The knock-on effect is Embiid can easily control the paint in the half-court which has limited Tatum rim runs.
Getting Al firing from 3 will open up the offense a lot.
Well one positive is two days rest for game 7 instead of the 1 day off they've had been games all season.
I was wondering if it could possibly get to the point where we see a player overrule CJM and call timeout to set up a final shot if G7 comes down the wire. I can imagine the players feeling like, "we're NOT going down that way again" (e.g. Game 4)
It may just be that that's who he is: a great two-way guard who doesn't show up for big playoff games. I'm not ready to write him off yet by any means, but the body of evidence is starting to mount.
Harden and Embiid also get extra day off. I reckon it would be to Boston's benefit overall if G7 was Sat and not Sun.
Such a strange experience watching last night's game. Obviously, it's super exciting that they won - but I just didn't feel excited, strangely, I think because I was so frustrated for much of the game and saw the whole season going down the drain. Really interesting that Tatum basically won the game by hitting two back to back threes (I think the later one was just icing).
I think what op was referring to was two sets of back to backs, four total. The last put them up 11 with :38 seconds to go…not exactly icing on the cake time but definitely not as massive as the others
Marcus Smart's extremely candid comments about Joe's mistakes and learning were interesting.
Not that I think Marcus was wrong. He was saying what we all see and know. But publicly saying that the criticism was warranted strikes me as unusual.
The Boston Globe chose to ignore it, entirely.
https://theathletic.com/4512743/2023/05/12/celtics-marcus-smart-force-game-7-sixers/
Not that I think Marcus was wrong. He was saying what we all see and know. But publicly saying that the criticism was warranted strikes me as unusual.
The Boston Globe chose to ignore it, entirely.
They aren’t getting away with Tatum being horrible again to start and hoping the Sixers don’t get out of 80s. Might need 4 qtrs from him, as limping Embiid and old Beard can properly empty their tanks for game 7. Beard in particular I think has been managing his effort and picking moments (whole games) this series.
Can only imagine what the quotes would have been like had they lost in ugly fashion.
Thought this was funny considering... the Delaware Journal posted their Sixers-win article just needing to fil int he final score. Kind of like an obit without the expiration date.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sixers-advance-eastern-conference-finals-084558601.html
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sixers-advance-eastern-conference-finals-084558601.html
I mean, this is a big part of why the Celtics haven’t run with that much this year. I see it coming back again on Sunday but if the Celtics make it through they probably go back to their standard lineup against NY/MIA.
Per Sean Grande, the Cs play at 3:30 on Sunday if the Lakers close out the Warriors tonight, and 8 PM on Sunday if the Warriors win tonight.
I’m not sure why with this team and this championship window, knowing what we all see and know about Joe he was the choice to lead this team at this place and time.
Mostly because Ime left them in a brutal spot with insufficient time to bring in a quality hire from the outside. I think Mazulla will get better/more respected though, all the young coaches take lumps like this.
I saw this too, it makes such little sense with the other teams on the west coast so go Fakers
Tobias Harris has done pretty well on Tatum, and the coverage on Browns drives always looks solid (compared to Philly's "ole!" act)
Tough one for those attending. 3:30 implies you are gone for all of Mother’s Day, whereas 8pm you have the entire day.
From a fan perspective I want 8pm. Let the crowd get toasty and the team keep their normal routine. Build that anticipation throughout the day so everyone can come out and do their jobs (fans included).
I agree, and a big part of that is the lack of Embiid. I think you potentially see it again if the Celtics make the finals against the Nuggets.
I hear what you're saying. Any other Sunday I 1000% prefer 3:30. Combination of Mother's Day and it being game 7, probably works out better at 8pm.
He didn't pick any moments in the fourth quarter - zero points and I think only three shots.
White was huge in the first half last night. Less so in the 2nd half but did have that one made 3 to give the Celts the lead back in the 3rd quarter
I obviously agree, and quite frankly I'd hate to suffer through watching that again. That said, they are 2-0 in games now where Tatum was overall pretty terrible. Not that I want to risk it, but worth noting. If they can play D like they did last night I think they can get away with a lot.
This from Tatum re Joe:
Inside the Boston locker room, Tatum shared another piece of his coach’s message with The Athletic. Tatum was five minutes away from the type of game that would make him a punchline for the entire offseason.
“Go get the f—ing ball,” Mazzulla told him.
Me and Joe, we talk, I don’t want to say separately, but there’s moments throughout this season (when) things going great, things not going great,” Tatum said. “Sometimes we just pull each other to the side and I’ve done that to him, right? In his first year, he’s done an unbelievable job. I know there’s a lot of questions and doubts. I told him a lot of times like, ‘Yo, I got you. I got your back. We in this together.’ I love that relationship that me and Joe have.”
https://theathletic.com/4512906/2023/05/12/celtics-jayson-tatum-76ers-game7/
Inside the Boston locker room, Tatum shared another piece of his coach’s message with The Athletic. Tatum was five minutes away from the type of game that would make him a punchline for the entire offseason.
“Go get the f—ing ball,” Mazzulla told him.
Me and Joe, we talk, I don’t want to say separately, but there’s moments throughout this season (when) things going great, things not going great,” Tatum said. “Sometimes we just pull each other to the side and I’ve done that to him, right? In his first year, he’s done an unbelievable job. I know there’s a lot of questions and doubts. I told him a lot of times like, ‘Yo, I got you. I got your back. We in this together.’ I love that relationship that me and Joe have.”
https://theathletic.com/4512906/2023/05/12/celtics-jayson-tatum-76ers-game7/
God forbid he's honest and direct. Our basketball players don't just have to be great at their jobs and be good people, they also need to be politicians as well. Good grief.
If it's "been a real issue", can you point to any negatives on the team that it has caused? Because from my perspective it leaves the team more able to confront and do something about its mistakes and problems.
Personally I read all these comments more as praise and respect for TL than a slam on Mazzulla.
I don't really think Smart's comments are that big of a deal. They're pretty consistent with how the players have spoken about Mazzulla all year long. The positive way to look at it is they feel comfortable enough with CJM to speak candidly, and they're all grown men: just as the players have to be accountable, so do the coaches. It wasn't an indictment of him as a coach, just saying it was clear he needed to make adjustments and he did. I'm sure old-school coaches would have something to say about respect and discipline and blah blah blah....but Marcus didn't say anything that wasn't true, and I don't think discouraging that is particularly good leadership. It seems like it's been a collaborative effort between Mazzulla and the leaders of the team all year long, with both players and coach empowered to speak freely and have the other side respond in good faith. That might not be how Larry Brown did it, but I don't think that's a bad thing.
As for the stuff on the court, we'll see. Starting TL was a good move, and especially given the response from the players, they have to do it again in Game 7. But, as people have pointed out, Doc can play this version of TL off the floor if he wants to. To me, what's missing in his game is lateral quickness, moreso than verticality. 37-year-old Al Horford is more switchable than Rob is at this point. That's a problem, and it makes TL a matchup-specific player rather than the queen on the chess board that he used to be. If they swap Tucker for Melton, he has no one to guard. Even if Tucker's on the floor, I'm willing to bet Tucker will set a steady train of ball screens for Harden, and we'll see Harden attack Rob in drop coverage. We've seen that before, and it doesn't work; switching that screen would probably be even worse, leading to a million free throws for Harden because Rob just can't help himself.
Ultimately, these types of coaching adjustments can give you an edge for a time, and sometimes those stretches swing games. But there's no silver bullet here; Doc will respond, and the Celtics just need to make shots. I think they're due, and I expect Tatum to have a Great game 7.
As for the stuff on the court, we'll see. Starting TL was a good move, and especially given the response from the players, they have to do it again in Game 7. But, as people have pointed out, Doc can play this version of TL off the floor if he wants to. To me, what's missing in his game is lateral quickness, moreso than verticality. 37-year-old Al Horford is more switchable than Rob is at this point. That's a problem, and it makes TL a matchup-specific player rather than the queen on the chess board that he used to be. If they swap Tucker for Melton, he has no one to guard. Even if Tucker's on the floor, I'm willing to bet Tucker will set a steady train of ball screens for Harden, and we'll see Harden attack Rob in drop coverage. We've seen that before, and it doesn't work; switching that screen would probably be even worse, leading to a million free throws for Harden because Rob just can't help himself.
Ultimately, these types of coaching adjustments can give you an edge for a time, and sometimes those stretches swing games. But there's no silver bullet here; Doc will respond, and the Celtics just need to make shots. I think they're due, and I expect Tatum to have a Great game 7.
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Yeah I think the "he's been getting killed, and rightfully so" just came off harsher in print than Marcus intended. I would guess that Marcus is just acknowledging that people should be questioning the HC when the team is underperforming, something along those lines.
It appears the double big emphasis came at the expense of White's minutes. I'm thankful Smart had the game that he did, but that cannot be expected (or sustained). Need White on the floor more
I saw Smart’s comments live. To me, they stood out at the time, and they stand out in print to the same extent.
But I don’t think they were harsh. Or not well taken.
But I do think that they were unusually candid. The “rightfully so” part in particular.
I don’t think Joe would have an issue with them. But other coaches clearly would and while maybe this is more for the media forum, I also think that the Globe chose to ignore them entirely is notable.
But I don’t think they were harsh. Or not well taken.
But I do think that they were unusually candid. The “rightfully so” part in particular.
I don’t think Joe would have an issue with them. But other coaches clearly would and while maybe this is more for the media forum, I also think that the Globe chose to ignore them entirely is notable.
Re: Sunday game times. It is what it is, but why wouldn't they just have Boston/Philly play at 7:30 and LA/GS play at 10:30?
That was the plan, per my friend who works for a team still involved. I haven’t heard back from him today.
And Philly didn't take the lead until 4:37 left in the 3rd. Felt like we were trailing all game. Maybe because we should have been with Tatum looking like Ben Simmons out there. I can't say I would have predicted Tatum would do that at the end, but I am not shocked. Certainly wasn't the first time. I'm just so glad he did. He played so well on defense. Would be such a shame to be remembered for that offensive performance in a close out game.
Can we please have an easy blow out game 7 for the Celtics? Probably not. But it is entirely possible. Such a weird team.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Bankshot was saying Mazz's inexperience has been "a real issue" all year, not Marcus' directness.
In a way, Smart's, Brown's and Tatum's comments are consistent (maybe perfectly aligned) with one of the things Mazzulla has consistently done (and been criticized for) -- giving the players the opportunity/responsibility to straighten themselves out. I could be overthinking this, but it would border on hypocritical for Mazzulla to give the players *that* much responsibility and then react badly when they talk about that responsibility, even indirectly. Mazzulla is obviously stubborn. But, he's also confident enough in himself to give the players rope. They are *all* figuring out how much rope is the right amount.
Even though they haven't won anything, it *is* a veteran team. I'm not sure it's all *that* much different from when Doc had the '08 team (other than in the intervening years, players generally have more power/freedom). Was Doc running that show? Or was Garnett? Was KC Jones running *that* show? Who runs the show when Lebron is on the team. I know the parallels aren't perfect, but it would be really easy for a rookie coach to be so insecure that he wont let veterans veteranize.