Why do the Pats have no plan against the blitz? Does Mac have trouble identifying blitzes? They have not made teams pay for blitzing.
The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread
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The coaching is so bad on that side of the ball that the offensive line has difficulty handling simple blocking schemes. Expecting them to be able to pick up blitzes may be asking too much.
I’ve also missed having a fullback on the roster this year. Both as a lead blocker in the running game, and as more stout, physical option on blitz pickup in certain situations.
It's a lot of things. Mac definitely has a lot of trouble identifying blitzes and calling out protections. The line isn't great at handling them on their own, our TEs (particularly Henry) aren't good blockers, so when a blitz puts them on a DE or good OLB they get wrecked, and Rhamondre isn't particularly good at blitz pickup... plus no fullback. In addition to that, the playcalling isn't great and neither is the execution. Some of that MAY be about Mac's lack of recognition, so he ends up not checking out of the play into the blitz counter (so for example against CIN there was a play where he completely missed the CB creeping up, if he sees it the checks to a run or a WR screen and gets yards likely, instead he gets obliterated.), some of it is Patricia calling too many "shot" plays to try and beat the blitz instead of taking something small. Some of it may also be Mac's footwork and arm. He backpedals against pressure and throws off balance, which leads to bad throws, and he doesn't have the arm to make you pay on tight windows. I notice some of Mac's worst mistakes early were on plays where he tried to make the throws Aaron Rodgers does to beat the blitz. But Aaron Rodgers is a freak who can throw a fadeaway lazer into a tight window, Mac trying that lead to ugly picks, he's stopped doing that recently, but it's meant a lot more throw-aways and sacks taken. Really it's a team effort. Mac is the type of QB you can blitz effectively right now (fringy arm, not a real running threat, and not a very good pre-snap reader), and the supporting players and coaches aren't good enough to elevate him.
People are calling out "no fullback" - but how many times was a fullback on the field on 3rd and 5+?
The pick up looks mostly fine to me. They usually get bodies on bodies, the players are just getting beat one on one.
After Further Review...
There's a nice video breakdown as well, for those so inclined, which includes the nice throw to Thornton.
Good stuff. The first play, the sideline throw to Thornton.... What in the actual F is Trent Brown doing on that play? He's just staring straight ahead while a rusher goes right by him on his left. Has absolutely NO CLUE that the guy is there. But why not? The rusher wasn't hidden or anything. The edge rusher is showing blitz (or that he's going to rush anyway). Leaning forward, clearly in rush mode. Just a couple of feet to Brown's left. Nobody in the sightline impeding Brown from seeing him. Brown just doesn't even bother to try to block the guy, but Brown also doesn't help Strange out, who's getting pushed into the backfield. Basically, Trent Brown is just standing there doing absolutely NOTHING.
How Mac Jones hasn't gotten killed this year, I'll never know.
He did this last game. With 13 minutes left in the 4th, they had a free rushing linebacker (Roberts I think) and he badly underthrew Thornton. The CB got a hand on it. 3rd down and not in FG range, so a deep INT is not the end of the world if they can stop the return, but it was a bad one.
I think he has gotten a bit lucky in not throwing INTs the last few games. A better CB probably picks the ball he underthrew Meyers on in the last drive instead of barrelling into him.
Huh. In the Patriots.com postgame show Paul Perillo said Evan was really down on Mac's performance. Seems like he made a complete 180 after watching the film.
Kind of mirrors with what I saw also. I thought Mac was much more patient in the pocket the last few games. His issues are his accuracy as the pocket breaks down.
I know its sacrilegious around these parts, but I didnt hate what I saw from him for stretches in the last few games.
He doesn't blitz right off the snap, he takes half a step to the side or back before going. Brown glances at the rusher right at the snap and when he's not immediately rushing, Brown looks back to the middle for someone to pick up or help. It's a terrible read on his part (not even glancing back to the edge once there's no obvious help needed inside, Strange was pushed back too far and too fast for Brown to do much), but I get the logic.
This should be the 2022 Patriots team slogan. God, he’s been so fucking awful this year.
He pauses for literally a split-second. He doesn't hold back for a "one Mississippi". He flinches as he stands up and then rushes forward. Brown screwed this up royally.
Lazar has this to say about Brown: Trent Brown is fine but has mental lapses. A QB hit on an assignment issue and another false start. Clean otherwise.
I get so much out of Lazar's after further review. This was the most positive he's been about Mac in a while.
I get so much out of Lazar's after further review. This was the most positive he's been about Mac in a while.
Mac def looked better for portions of the game then he has all year. Maybe he's turning a corner.
If they make the playoffs, I hope they have a few new wrinkles in the play book.
If they make the playoffs, I hope they have a few new wrinkles in the play book.
Also from the Lazar breakdown:
Apparently, the "bad" Mac throw that made the catch more difficult and took points of the board was actually a good one if the WR had run the route correctly.
Yeah you could see it in real time...Thornton was bouncing and shaking around like a kid on the last day of elementary school. He's a rookie with great speed and potential, he'll get better at harnessing it.
I’ve been more on the OL vs Mac since he came back minus the Raiders game where I thought he missed a bunch of throws. I’d push back on the narrative of the NFL arm. The athletic guys mentioned it with a comp for Burrow it is a more athletic Philip Rivers and I think Mac is less than that. He can drop it into a bucket even if he needs to release it sooner than big cannon guys. Where I think Mac’s arm strength shows up is in three places: when he has to rifle a shot in the middle of the field, when he has to throw to the outside, and when he’s throwing off platform either on the move of if he can’t step fully into it. He’s not perfect with his accuracy but it’s still good. He has struggled dealing with pressure as well as I think he is having some issues seeing the field and reading zones. Post-snap processing stuff. He had an average to above average game against the Fins. Since he’s fully come back he’s been above average to average overall. He has shown me more or less he is an average NFL starter but isn't anything special. The problem is I think we view QBs in either two ways: you’re a star or you aren’t good enough. Mac has his limitations but I still think he is a starter you can win with. I'd absolutely upgrade him if I could and I'd hate to sign him to an expensive 2nd contract.
Would you rather have Mac on an expensive second contract or have Zappe be the starter?
I guess I question the ok/fine.
It is also that the QB is supposed to see it and make changes to the play or the first read, right? I have seen many reviews of plays where commentators are saying when he comes up here it is up to Mac to change the protection and he doesnt see it.
I'd buy into this take. Interesting to see SF doing well with Purdy at QB. I don't know anything about him, but guessing if he was pick 262 he's probably not toolsy with a rifle arm.
Well, define "win." Super bowls or playoff appearances?
I agree with your analysis overall, but isn't this the rub? Average isn't going to get it done in a conference with at least 3 superstars and 2-4 more who could get there. In another era or if we could switch to the NFC maybe that would be ok but the gap between Allen / Mahomes / Burrow and "average" is really large, to say nothing of the other QBs between Mac and that top 3.
I can squint and see a Pats team with a better OC / OL, a trade for a star WR or someone like Thornton taking a big leap, and continued excellence from the defense, and it would still come down to at least two playoff showdowns against QBs who are clearly better than Mac. It would look something like the Titans the last few years.
So I heard Chad Finn in the radio today and he said that Mac isn't allowed to audible? Play goes in and that's that. This despite (Finn mentions) Mac's supposed great ability to do this at Alabama.
He literally audibled on the goal line to Meyers. They change the play at the line on a fairly regular basis it seems.
This seems reasonable. The one thing I would say is that I think there is some upside potential here to be better than average. We've seen him throw accurately on the run last year. He throws with bad form (off the back foot, etc.) more than he needs to. He seems to have major issues with pressure and with reads, which seem at least partly related. Not sure whether his injury has had a lingering impact.
I'm not sold enough on him to give him an expensive second contract. My thought is you play out the string with him, maybe bring in some competition, too. But I still see some potential upside.
Knowing only what I know now, Zappe by default, because I see no guarantees that Mac can justify an expensive second contract. The potential is there, I think, but there is too much risk that he doesn't achieve it.
I think some of this is semantics. Mac clearly is (or has been) allowed to make adjustments at the line, because we've seen him do that plenty. The Meyers play was described by BB as more of Mac just choosing one of the options the play gave him. There was obviously some communication between Meyers and Mac before the snap there - but that might have been more ad lib than audible. Andrews said what Mac did is not what he expected. If Mac had audibled (as I understand that term), Andrews would have know what was coming.
This seems like Chad Finn making shit up, unless his definition of audible is literally "call whatever he wants" because we have seen him check into another play many many times all season.
Do you mean Mac on a second contract as a starting QB or like top 10 QB money? I mean Zappe and Mac both hit FA in 2026 so one of them would need to be paid a second contract.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/contracts/
Yeah, I don't understand this. Andrews had a quote that said "that was not the play call that came in".
This is where I'm at. I have no doubt Mac can provide a baseline of competent QB play if he has enough talent and good coaching around him, I already trust him not to screw up a game if that's what you ask him to do, but while I think it's perfectly feasible for him to be a Derek Carr or Kirk Cousins level player starting next year, I do wonder what that's worth in a Conference with Mahomes/Allen/Burrow/Lamar/Herbert/Lawrence all with 10+ years to go in their careers. It does suck that the NFL seems to be moving into a "you either have one of the 8 best QBs in the league or you don't have a QB at all" direction, but in a way I think it has pretty much always been like that and only now teams are being realistic about their chances of winning it all with anything other than stellar play at the position.
Sure, Jimmy Garoppolo and Ryan Tannehill can lead you to a bunch of wins on talented, well coached teams, but at some point you'll need them to make a throw or take over a game against the best competition and odds are they won't pull through. I'd rather keep looking for the special player (which doesn't mean most toolsy player, Burrow is an example) than hoping my guy goes Super Saiyan for 4 games like Eli, Flacco or Foles.
The history of SBs has shown pretty clearly that teams can win with average QB play, but they have to be exceptional in other areas and the margins are smaller. Those teams also have more narrow championship windows (sometimes only one year). This last point is critical for franchises and I would say almost as important an argument for finding top QB talent as winning an actual championship. Sustained success and having a real chance at a SB year to year (with lots of playoff games etc.) is very lucrative, bolsters the brand and builds generations of fans. That’s very hard to do in the NFL today without a top flight QB.
Yup. Far more volatility when you don’t have a stud QB. Not easy to keep an elite defense over several years. It’s also far more of a passing league now than even 15 years ago so it’ll be interesting to see who wins these upcoming titles. A Stafford/Dak caliber QB may be the new baseline for all we know. End of the day, you ain’t winning shit with an OL like the 2022 Pats. They really need to fix this going forward. Should be the top priority.
This makes the most sense. By definition there are only ever going to be 3-5 elite QBs in the league at any given moment. And even having one doesn’t guarantee anything.
Patrick Mahomes, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Josh Allen have combined for 4 Super Bowl wins. And Manning had little to do with the Broncos win.
Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, and Nick Foles have also combined for 4 Super Bowl wins.
I don’t think anyone ever comes close to repeating the run that Brady and Belichick went on. The entire league is designed to make a team go 8-8.
And even in 2023 if you can win the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball you are going to have a real shot to contend.
Agreed. And they have some of the pieces already in place with guys like Onwenu, Strange (hopefully), Andrews, Barmore, etc. I think OT is an issue given what we’ve seen out of Trent Brown this year. They need to find their Light/Solder steady rock at LT. The defense is in pretty good shape so it’s not hard dream on OL/Mac improvement that gets this team from an 8-9 win squad to 11-12 wins.
I more or less made a similar point last week, I think. With some special teams improvement (Judge replacing Achord), OL / OC improvement (e.g., hiring BoB and doing... something with Patricia), I think Mac will by default play better, and they easily bump a couple games. It's not hard to see a 12 win team with the current roster, let alone any roster improvement.
Yup. It’s all OL for me. We all whine about Mac, and I’m guilty there as well, but the OL has been putrid for basically the entirety of the season, including camp. I have no idea how to fix it but they simply have to. Nothing else matters. The secondary appears to be in pretty good shape going forward. Front 7 could use a little more but I’m excited by the development of Uche. Could probably use another impact LB or two as well.
At WR, I hope they bring Meyers back and Thornton continues his development. It’s a thin WR market so I’m concerned about losing Meyers this offseason.
I hope they invest a very large proportion of their off-season resources in the OL. And I agree OT should be the focus. If they are drafting in the teens, they should have options.
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So if they draft an OT with their first pick instead of the next stud WR, people here will be just fine with that, right? I just want to prepare myself for everyone's reaction at the end of April.
I want a tackle early, but it's not clear there's a pick that makes a ton of sense around 15-20 (the Northwestern kid will go earlier, maybe they get Johnson from Ohio State or Harrison from Texas?) Looks like a thin class at the top.
They should probably also extend owenwu if they can and add a Center/guard back-up/andrews replacement in the third or fourth.
Continuity is just so important at the offensive line; I'm not sure you do cut/ bench Brown if he's willing to play and wasn't too much of a PITA off the field. I think I would try to re-sign McDermott who should be cheap, he's at least provided some consistency. In both cases I'd be getting ready to move one fairly soon.
Better coaching and scheming will help this OL at least as much as it will help Mac Jones. Onwenu hasn't been a drop off from Mason and Strange has struggled at times, but isn't a terrible starter. The five they have right now is a fine group, certainly one capable of performing at a higher level than they've delivered. Grab a tackle and they're pretty much set.
I think the early view from the SoSH draft experts is that the OT crop in the draft this year is pretty raw. And at a quick glance there doesn’t seem to be a lot in the way of good FA options. McGary? McGlinchey? Maybe take a shot on Andre Dillard? I think “fix the OL” might be a lot easier said than done.
I am in the "open competition" camp between Mac and Zappe next year, because you have to make a decision on Mac's 5th-year-option at the end of next season. Because Mac has a Pro Bowl last year, he's going to get the transition tender for the position, which is $28M next year, and probably in the $30M range for when he actually qualifies. Thus, next year, Mac either needs to prove that he is the guy who you want to start committing $30M to (which I would not do as of today), or you need to keep rotating cheap talent through the position waiting for one of them to pop or for someone better to come available. Paying an average QB $30M+ is not a successful formula for building a team. You can have average guys on rookie deals and build the strength of the team elsewhere, but that's too big of a hit to pay for someone who is just average at that position. So I think you have to challenge Mac to earn the option, and if he isn't doing that through camp and early into next season, you move onto Zappe, just because you're not going to pay Mac $30M per year in that case and you might as well find out whether Zappe can do anything for an extended run.
I don’t trust this staff’s evaluation of draft WRs so, yes, good on my end. Also looks like a good OT draft.
With continuity (and hopefully with good coaching; I'll admit that I can't personally tell how good the coaching is this year but if it's not you should be able to hire another OL coach who can do a better job) they should get better even without significant new additions. I'd defnitely want to add a tackle in round one or two but it's not self evident to me that any rookie tackle you get, even with a high pick, would be better off the bat than McDermott (or be good enough to move Brown to RT).
Well if they pass on a highly-regarded WR and take an OT that was projected as a 3rd rounder, I think a negative reaction will ensue. But no one here is going to be angry about taking a well-regarded OLman in the 1st round. I'd certainly prefer that to this team taking yet another swing-and-miss at a day 1 WR.
Isn’t “raw OL” the trend with the way college teams play these days? I have seen lots of commentary to this effect. I think you have to get talent in the building and hope you can develop it over the course of the rookie contract. Maybe this also makes the middle class OT vet talent (like McDermott, arguably) more of a market efficiency, and speaks to the need for better OL coaching (ie not Matty P).
I've been saying all season that I don't think we can get a great read on Mac until he has a legitimate OC and QB coach again, along with an improved OL. But I'm not sure I can get onboard yet with the notion that he's clearly a league average QB. Jury is still out on that, IMHO.
yeah, I think I can get on board with the idea that he is a low level starter, but league average to me is closer to his ceiling than a floor I've seen yet.