Colin thinks Mac beat up on "4th stringers" in the preseason, so at that point, I turned it off.
So, where would we be right now if draft night didn't play out like that? Oof.
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Cam Newton signs with Carolina
- Thread starter TSC
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So, where would we be right now if draft night didn't play out like that? Oof.
Ah, I clicked on that and thought it'd be that video from the old Spiderman cartoon where he's pointing at another Spiderman.
LOL, mixed up my Mac. MAC came pretty close to thoroughly outplaying Cam, all things considered.
So I totally agree with this but am going to be the first guy to say this on this thread, since we’re also contemplating Mac winning a SB in his rookie year on this team:
If BB blew this pick and Jones turns out to be a bust, is this how his tenure ends in NE?
“For all his success, Belichick was never able to replace Brady, signing a broken down Cam Newton one year before giving the starting job to a rookie who only played 17 games in college the next. Jones went on to only win X games in his first two seasons as quarterback. Shortly after, Bill Belichick retired from pro football, ending the most successful coaching run in football history. Somewhere Tom Brady is smiling.”
Cam's salary was 100% guaranteed. They only save on game day roster bonuses and incentives so that theory makes zero sense.
Jones isn't going to be a bust. The Pats winning a SB this year is vanishingly unlikely, probably less likely than their winning in 2001 was.
Jones may turn out not be great, but it's hard to believe he won't at minimum be a reliable NFL starter.
Again, if it fucked up the whole week, why did Cam still “start” on Sunday? The only argument I can see for Cam still being the starter if the Covid incident hadn’t occurred is that Mac would not have gotten those precious joint practice reps vs the Giants and therefore wouldn’t have had the opportunity to take over the starter role. But even this should be encouraging, because we know the value BB places on those practices. If anything they seemed to make him even more willing to make this move. Which is music to my ears.
As long as it's right at the feet of a RB in the flat. Do it right, or dont do it at all.
I think the way they managed Cam and Mac in training camp/preseason was strange in general. They 100% operated as if Cam was the entrenched starter and if being unvaccinated was the determining factor for his release, I don't get how you still start him in Game 3 and give him just two series while leaving Mac Jones out there with a backup OL against the Giants starters. The gamesmanship argument goes out the window as soon as they release Cam and give Flores 2 weeks to prepare for Mac as well. Feels like if they knew they were going Mac they didn't really give Cam a chance to compete for his job in the preseason and if they didn't know they were going Mac until Cam missed practices because of Covid protocols they should have just released him then and there or at least played Mac with starters in the final game of the preseason to minimize the chance of injury.
I think there is still an in between scenario: Cam isn’t there due to Covid; Mac takes the snaps; Mac excels; and then finally the coaches wanted to see Mac carry the momentum into game day. Otherwise I agree, why not just cut Cam last week, unless they just wanted to avoid the circus for another day. Heck even yesterday they waited until after BB’s presser to announce the release.
Sure, but wouldn't you give Mac at least one series with the starters in that scenario, even if he doesn't start the game?
They wanted Mac to feel the heat all the way through camp. That was the plan and they stuck with it.
In hindsight, they probably had a good idea Mac would win the job from day one.
In hindsight, they probably had a good idea Mac would win the job from day one.
I totally agree. It does seem to point to something happening between the end of that game and yesterday morning. Not that it was the only factor, obviously, but is it possible/likely/a fantasy that BB went to Cam postgame with "Okay, but seriously, we simply can't have you not vaxxed, particularly if you're the starter," and Cam - politely or otherwise - refused?
Wouldn't you want him to have a more extensive period of preparing as the starter if that were the case? I agree that they shouldn't have just annointed him from the jump even if they believed him to be the guy, but if Cam missing practices due to being unvaccinated was the last straw, why not just cut ties with Cam from there? Why extend the charade for 2 extra practices and a preseason game and risk an injury to Mac in the process? I don't really see a scenario that justifies the way they approached game 3 if they were already set on starting Mac prior to that day.
Maybe the bolded was an attempt to simulate playing against some pressure because Belichick wanted to see what Mac could do in a tighter pocket with less time (with the assumption that the starting line might make it too easy for him).
I also wonder if the preseason games take on an oversized role in our sense of the assessment simply because we actually get to see those snaps, but as a total percentage of what is under consideration, maybe those games mean a little less than it would seem.
Oh, I'm pretty sure this is the case. Still, it's not like Mac was taking a lot of snaps with starters in training camp either. I know Bill explicitly told us not to read much into that, but wouldn't you want your starter to have as many reps as possible with the OL, WRs and TEs he'll actually play with Week 1? I think that decision was made really late in the process and potentially after the last preseason game.
Yeah I think it was all about keeping a high level of competition throughout camp.
FWIW
View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1433042648017813505
Doubled down on it with a heavy dose of bullshit as well.
View: https://twitter.com/RyanHannable/status/1433041568764661763?s=20
In perfect BB fashion, it's both literally true and it's also bullshit. The pool of vaccinated personnel is, generally speaking, considerably larger than the pool of unvaxxed. That makes the "pretty high" *number* of people infected a nearly-irrelevant number.
It also has no bearing on what's actually being discussed here: being unvaccinated means being subject to stricter protocols that directly affect your availability to the team. That justification is complete garbage.
His buddy Urban Meyer is in trouble for saying vax status did play a role in who they decided to cut which is a problem because that is prohibited in the agreement to return to play. It is very smart for Bill to be emphasizing that had no role whatsoever in the decision to cut him even if it was a driving factor. Had they cut him last week after the Covid mix up the NFLPA is probably investigating NE on similar grounds.
It's 100% not smart to say "well, look at all the vaccinated people who are catching it", it's bullshit obfuscation. Just say his status in regards to the vaccine had nothing to do with his release.
This is legitimately curious. BB sometimes likes to toss backup QBs into a situtation without advanced notice (to simulate a turnover or QB injury or whatever). When the Pats took over inside their own 5 yard line, I half expected BB to throw Jones right in to see how he would handle it.
It strongly points to a decision not having been made until after the game.
But I am not necessarily convinced that something happened after the game that led the Pats to make the move. It could be that that the just started out with a certain plan (Mac backup up Cam) and didn't change that until after the game.
It could also be that they have a Jimmy deal (or something similar) in the works?
Eh, more like he miss-spoke/used a poor example to brush off a question he had no interest in getting too deep into. I know we all think spends 24/7/365 plotting his every utterance and move. As smart as he is, he's just as capable as anyone else of saying a dumb thing in an off the cuff moment. I don't think it's a big offense, and he's absolutely right not to sight Cam's vaccination status as a reason for his decision.
I don't think it's inconceivable that the competition was really close all throughout the preseason. However, there was always the possibility that if Mac impressed while Cam did not, the team would not hesitate to name Mac the starter. As for that 3rd preseason game, there was no point cutting anyone prior to that; far better to keep the roster flexibility in the event of an unexpected injury. If Mac got hurt in PS3, then Cam would have been named the starter. Easy decision to make when you are allocated 80 roster spots.
Mac got lots of joint practice time with the starters when Cam was forced to miss practice, and will have plenty of reps with the starters the next 10 days. I do expect the offensive game plan to be relatively simple for Week 1, however. But that would have been the case no matter when he played against the Giants.
As for Belichick, he has to say that Cam's vaccination status had nothing to do with his release if he wants to avoid a grievance being filed against the team. He didn't have to say the part about vaccinated players getting sick as often as unvaccinated; his statement could create an unwanted and frankly unnecessary distraction. Still, Bill does get a mulligan every now and then; he's earned them.
Mac got lots of joint practice time with the starters when Cam was forced to miss practice, and will have plenty of reps with the starters the next 10 days. I do expect the offensive game plan to be relatively simple for Week 1, however. But that would have been the case no matter when he played against the Giants.
As for Belichick, he has to say that Cam's vaccination status had nothing to do with his release if he wants to avoid a grievance being filed against the team. He didn't have to say the part about vaccinated players getting sick as often as unvaccinated; his statement could create an unwanted and frankly unnecessary distraction. Still, Bill does get a mulligan every now and then; he's earned them.
This is the full quote:
View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1433042051642318849?s=20
And it would rightly be characterized by SoSH as antivax bullshit had it come from any other coach. No one is claiming being vaccinated immunizes a person from Covid completely, that's not the argument, so why throw in that little spiel?
I considered that, thinking wouldn't it be interesting if Mac had worked out at a disadvantage, often going to bttle with the tw
Yes. I saw that. It's bullshit.
I strongly doubt that was his intention or belief, but we're getting too close to V & N territory to get much further into it here.
My read is that they decided they didn't really need to evaluate Cam / let him compete; they had all of last year and they feel like they know what he is - for better and/or worse. The consistent trend was Mac got a lot more reps. I think it was just about whether Mac rose to the challenge and their comfort level with him starting day one.
I think that it was indeed an open competition all thru camp. And that Cam was indeed the "starter" all summer, until Mac finally eclipsed him. When that happened, and maybe it was as late as the Giants game, BB went to Cam out of respect for the veteran and all he had done -- and let's face it, Cam had said and done pretty much all the right things since Day One last year -- and Bill told him "Look, starting Mac is what is best for our football team. Do you want to stay on as backup or would you rather be released?" And Cam opted for being released.
I wasn't familiar with Cam's contract so was just asking a question. I'll note that the Pats also cut Hoyer so I assume at least he'll be resigned once they open up a roster spot.
If this is true, it will be interesting to see what happens when Cam finds out there's no market for him. Maybe he'll sit out and hope that an injury opens up a spot for him somewhere.
Cam's gone, man. Rearview mirror now. Don't care why he was cut. I'm gonna focus only on the present and future: Mac Jones.
Cam be gone, can't take it back. No matter the reason, in BB we trust going forward.
If true, I woudl amend my theory to read that once BB had denied Mac was the starter, he decided to cut him so that he could find a spot where he could compete to start OR BB cut him because he didn't think his skillset made sense as a backup to Mac.
We'll never know, but I would be totally shocked to learn that the decision was made based on what happened in that last preseason game. The more likely explanation is that playing Mac with the 2's was just a continuation of what they did throughout camp - throw all kinds of adversity at Mac to get him ready for tough situations he might see in the regular season. In that case - lots of pass rush pressure and receivers who weren't going to get wide open or bail him out.
p.s. - in no way am I claiming to have seen this as it was happening - just with the benefit of hindsight
Makes me think Bill decided on this somewhat early on in camp, and Cam getting the snaps with the 1's might have been a courtesy, to allow him to show what he has left to other teams. Particularly with the value he puts on the joint practices, and practices in general. And the fact that Mac now gets these two weeks of reps with the starters to prepare for Miami.
I start from the premise that Belichick rarely does something for no reason (and usually has a good reason). With that backdrop, the bolded really does seem like the right answer. Its hard to simulate that stuff in practice.
Didn't Mac come in and face a mix of starters and back-ups? Realistically, I doubt two series against the Giants' starters amount to much of anything development or preparation-wise. Helps to avoid a media frenzy (in NY of all places) in the post-game by just sticking with what you did already, too. Also, as has been stated many, many times in this thread they value the joint practices more than the games.
edit - Less relevant tape for Flores too.
edit - Less relevant tape for Flores too.
Curran mentioned this on his pod but Mac had a ton of reps with the starters in the week of practice with the Giants so giving Cam a look with the 1s during the game might have just been to balance out the number of reps they both got with the 1s. He saw Mac dissect the Giants 1s. There was a play during that game where the Giants showed 5-6 potential pass rushers and overloaded a side. Cam either checked into a hot and threw it there and the receiver ran the wrong route or he failed to check into a play with a hot that resulted in him having no one to throw it to as the pressure got there quickly and he had to throw it away. My impression was Cam didn’t make the right adjustment.
I assume that it was reasonably close up to the end, but once you make the Jones decision it's best to have one QB, no looking back, no charismatic back-up to divide the locker remote/draw media attention/etc. Like how Brady didn't come to games when he was hurt and they sent Rattay? and the other guy back from a try out right after Brady was injured so Cassell would be the clear starter.
That was my thought too. BB goes to great lengths not to burn relationships (and as a result, he has a ton of positive ones)
Speaking of the CFL.
Cam even in his current state would be fun to watch in the CFL. Lots of sandlot, broken plays, huge field to run around.
I think the nfl should allow teams to play cfl rules one home game a year, home team's choice.
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With the exception of the crazy location of the goal post, the NFL would be way better if it played on CFL fields with CFL rules all the time. Much more exciting, to my mind. If only the best players were playing by those rules.
Honestly I've always liked the CFL field more and wish that the NFL had adopted it at some point.