November General NBA Game Thread
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Fun with small sample sizes: After going 2-16 (not a typo) from deep tonight, James Harden is shooting ~20% from deep. Has he contracted Westbrook Flu?
That drive and kick by Luka to put the Mavs up by two was exceptional. He is so fun to watch play basketball.
Danny Green is so money.
Dwight Howard gets away with holding Curry to leave Green open in the right corner.
Dwight Howard gets away with holding Curry to leave Green open in the right corner.
LeBron has been so great tonight. What a performance.
View: https://twitter.com/zachkram/status/1190484231446781952?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/zachkram/status/1190484231446781952?s=20
I wouldn't be shocked if Harden and Westbrook pulled it off in the same game this year. Dunno if it's ever been done. 2 teammates getting a triple double in the same game is rare enough.
Teammates have had triple doubles in the same games 9 times by 9 different duos.
I expect that number to go up this year by a bit but we'll see.
I expect that number to go up this year by a bit but we'll see.
The Pelicans are 1-5. I still can’t believe they accepted the pu pu platter of mediocrity from LA in the Davis trade, although Hart grabbed 15 boards.
Out today but Ingram has been exhibiting break out potential.
I'm not a huge Coach Gentry fan and not sure he is the right guy to develop all this young talent.
Yeah, I wouldn't call that a pu-pu platter of mediocrity. Ball is at least a solid player and if his shot improves as much as it looks like it may have, better than that. And as benhogan points out Ingram may be becoming a star -- he was a terrible fit with LeBron, but early signs are he's breaking out in a big way. We'll see obviously, but the talent is there. Hart is a solid role player and the #4 pick was (questionably) turned into 3 #1s -- I thought that was a weird move, but the first two of those picks -- Hayes and Alexander-Walker -- are getting good buzz, so time will tell.
That's really a great haul for a guy who would be walking anyway. I don't know enough to comment on Gentry, but the defense is obviously the problem -- 24th ranked so far and today vs the Thunder won't improve that.
That's really a great haul for a guy who would be walking anyway. I don't know enough to comment on Gentry, but the defense is obviously the problem -- 24th ranked so far and today vs the Thunder won't improve that.
And he made the two free throws at the end to ice the game. Drummond making free throws? The world has turned upside down.
I hope nobody is watching this CHA vs GSW game. Holy balls this is some bad basketball. I don't know who half these dudes are. Hell, the starting lineups each have several WTF is this guy?
rozier, bacon, bridges, washington, zeller
vs
bowman, poole, robinson, paschall, cauley-stein
rozier, bacon, bridges, washington, zeller
vs
bowman, poole, robinson, paschall, cauley-stein
AB scores 20pts tonight.
Baynes getting the 20-22mpg I pined for last season. PHX loving that deal.
Efficiency monster
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/baynear01.html
Baynes getting the 20-22mpg I pined for last season. PHX loving that deal.
Efficiency monster
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/baynear01.html
The last minute of this game was a study of terrible NBA basketball. Rozier misses two FTs that would give CLT a three point lead with ~14 seconds left and yet the Warriors couldn't grab the rebound. So they foul Cody Martin, he makes one and misses the next...the Warriors couldn't secure that one. Terry did hit his last two to finally ice the game but the whole affair was ugly. The Hornets were 5-29 from deep. Ugh...
With the exception of the Golden State loss they have been within 4 points or less, or had the lead, in the final 5 minutes of their losses. The schedule makers didn't do them any favors either. The Pelicans are not your typical 1-5 team.
Ingram has impressed me over his last 25 games or so, and I was not a fan of his before that. Favors and Holiday have also missed games so far, and of course they are without Zion. I've never been impressed with Gentry as a coach, but I always hear people in basketball say nice things about him.
Lonzo remains unimpressive even though a bunch of people keep telling me he is going to be good. His shooting so far not being terrible is a positive sign, but I just don't know how much value he is going to have as a playmaker if he doesn't get to the rim at all. He's a really good playmaker in transition but in the half-court he has a lot of issues, and will have even more if his shooting regresses.
Brooklyn losing to Detroit is terrible. They significantly overpaid DeAndre Jordan because he was friends with KD and Kyrie but he was annihilated by Drummond. Right now it looks like they blew up a promising young core to go with the big name stars and the team might not be better off with the superstars in town. Maybe next season healthy KD comes back and saves everything for them, but right now it looks like a very Knicksian kind of move from Brooklyn. They lost tonight to Drummond, Markieef Morris, Luke Kennard and Bruce Brown, the pride of Wakefield, MA.
Lonzo remains unimpressive even though a bunch of people keep telling me he is going to be good. His shooting so far not being terrible is a positive sign, but I just don't know how much value he is going to have as a playmaker if he doesn't get to the rim at all. He's a really good playmaker in transition but in the half-court he has a lot of issues, and will have even more if his shooting regresses.
Brooklyn losing to Detroit is terrible. They significantly overpaid DeAndre Jordan because he was friends with KD and Kyrie but he was annihilated by Drummond. Right now it looks like they blew up a promising young core to go with the big name stars and the team might not be better off with the superstars in town. Maybe next season healthy KD comes back and saves everything for them, but right now it looks like a very Knicksian kind of move from Brooklyn. They lost tonight to Drummond, Markieef Morris, Luke Kennard and Bruce Brown, the pride of Wakefield, MA.
How crazy is that last off-season Detroit was shopping him hard and couldn't find any takers? I feel like this version of Drummond could legitimately average close to 20 rpg if he played for the Celtics.
Nice win for Philly in Portland last night as Furkan Korkmaz hits a 3 with 0.4 left for 129-128 victory. Embiid sat out first game of suspension. Fortunately, Portland center Hassan Whiteside missed the game due to an injury. Al Horford had 25 for the 76ers.
Not much defense in this one but Philly rookie Matisse Thybull leads the league in steals with 3 per game. Ben Simmons second at 2.75.
Not much defense in this one but Philly rookie Matisse Thybull leads the league in steals with 3 per game. Ben Simmons second at 2.75.
Ingram may have taken an Oladipo-leap on offense this year. Time will tell.
But the Pels defense is stinky bad. I mean, the Warriors hung 134 on them.
Very impressive 76ers win. Korkmaz also made some nifty defensive plays.
Portland historically tough road win. The Sixers came from 8pts down in the last 3:25 by playing shutdown defense. Portland/Phila traded baskets at the end.
Thybull's length is tough for guards on the perimeter, his steals lead to a lot of easy transition points. Great pick.
Kyle O'Quinn and Neto gave the Sixers some nice energy minutes off the bench.
Dame was torching them (nothing new), so maybe there is hope that smallish, quick PGs are their Achilles heel (see Kemba)...Portland was 19-34 from 3pt land, and the Sixers still found a way to win. grrrrrrrr
The Celtics are a lot better defensively than Portland imo, so if they can find a way to get Kemba to go off, they'd have a chance. I actually thought the first Philly game was encouraging, as scary as Philly's D is. They definitely can be stopped offensively.
It felt like game 1 butterflies for Kemba/team, especially with the FT clunkers as evidence. Also, 10 days between the last preseason game played and opening night, so some rust showed with all the starters.
Kemba did go off against the Sixers last season for 60pts. The Celtics also (even defensive savant Marcus Smart) struggled to stop Kemba/small PGs last season. Not sure the Sixers have anyone that can stay in front of KW. I like Thybulle's ability to disrupt the passing lane, but think Kemba could get him on his hip, draw fouls, and efficiently score.
I actually don't fear the Celtics going into long scoring droughts, like last season, with Kemba's ability to drive and draw. Think we'll see the rest of the C's wings (GH, JB, JT) follow/learn from KW's style.
Kemba has killed Philly in recent years. He was sad to see JJ Redick go to New Orleans. 76ers can now try to contain Kemba with two long defenders, Richardson and Thybulle. But you never stop a scorer like Kemba.Just make him work harder.
The Celtics-76ers rivalry is a bit different this year. Boston is the underdog. I think Brad and his players are using that to their advantage. Celtics are a team again, playing for each other. Danny probably needs to trade for another big man because Philly wants to pound opponents down low with “Bully Ball,” in an era where shooting 3s makes more sense.
While JJ would be a nice narrative for Sixer fans, it was #23 (Jimmy Butler) on Kemba from the tip and for 90% of the game (some zone & Fultz).
If you spend 8mins watching the highlights, JJ Redick never covered Kemba (Brett Brown would be pretty dumb to do that).
Kemba put up 37, 30, 60 and 21pts on the Sixers last season (for what it's worth, the Celtics didn't fare all that well either). This probably went into Danny's calculation on signing Kemba over someone like Brogdon (who I liked)
The "Bully Ball" is a problem and the Celtics will need to find a defense-first 5 with some heft/strength. Brad will probably try Grant at the 4 a bit more to combat the bigger teams.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQOeexKvYvM
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Lonzo has looked good so far from where I sit. He's a very good positional defender who can switch onto multiple positions and is much more in control of the game now that he's out of LeBron's shadow and another year older. Of course he's flawed as nearly everyone is but he's showing a lot of growth especially in his shooting. With improved mechanics and better results from such I don't know why you'd expect a regression in his shooting as everything I see points to continued improvement. This kid just turned 22.
The problem is less that we another big, but that you can't realistically play any two of our current bigs together. Philly can play Al and Embiid because of Al's diverse skill set. Maybe Theis can do that in a poor man's Al imitation. I guess GWill may one day fill that role, but I don't think he's a ready for prime time guy quite yet.
Or to put it another way, we don't need another big, we need a more skilled one who can defend. Hard to come by those.
I think Philly is maybe the one team where a lack of a good big doesn't hurt as much. Kanter did a very, very credible job on Embiid in the opener, and the Sixers don't have the personnel to REALLY attack Kanter's weaknesses (no fast guards).
The Celtics got beat against Philly because Brown got in foul trouble, they missed free throws, Kemba was off, but most of all because they need to solve Philly's D. Adding another big feels like a solution, but it doesn't address the root cause at all.
Portland literally just showed how you can attack Philly's D, and the Celtics with Kemba have a) the personnel to somewhat replicate that b) ways to handle Embiid.
Don't get me wrong--I want to upgrade at C through internal development or trades. But beating Philly is going to require transcendence from Kemba or the team hitting another level of team offense. This is why I'm so focused currently on the team's progress (and problems) in getting offensive flow game-to-game.
The Celtics got beat against Philly because Brown got in foul trouble, they missed free throws, Kemba was off, but most of all because they need to solve Philly's D. Adding another big feels like a solution, but it doesn't address the root cause at all.
Portland literally just showed how you can attack Philly's D, and the Celtics with Kemba have a) the personnel to somewhat replicate that b) ways to handle Embiid.
Don't get me wrong--I want to upgrade at C through internal development or trades. But beating Philly is going to require transcendence from Kemba or the team hitting another level of team offense. This is why I'm so focused currently on the team's progress (and problems) in getting offensive flow game-to-game.
Upcoming notable national games:
Wedenesday, November 6
Draymond Green and friends @ Rockets, 7:30 ET, ESPN
Bucks @ Clippers, 10:00 ET, ESPN
Thursday, November 7
Celtics @ Hornets (Kemba returns to Queen City), 8:00 ET. TNT
Blazers @ Clippers, 10:30 ET, TNT
Friday,, November 8
Heat @ Lakers, 10:30 ET, ESPN
Wedenesday, November 6
Draymond Green and friends @ Rockets, 7:30 ET, ESPN
Bucks @ Clippers, 10:00 ET, ESPN
Thursday, November 7
Celtics @ Hornets (Kemba returns to Queen City), 8:00 ET. TNT
Blazers @ Clippers, 10:30 ET, TNT
Friday,, November 8
Heat @ Lakers, 10:30 ET, ESPN
Josh Hart is already more than a role player to me. He should be the FPOM for October or at least the first 30 days of the NBA season.
View: https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1190781259305238529?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1190781259305238529?s=20
Much more with HRB on this, but Kliq puts his finger on the other problem. Even "if" Ball's shooting stays improved, he's still a terrible finisher at the basket. Fun fact: Anthony Davis' 26 (I think it was) made free throws a few days back were more than the 20 free throws Ball made all of last season. Partly that's because he's a terrible FT shooter (be interesting to see if his 60% rate so far this season can stand) and partly because he is allergic to contact when finishing.
Other than, he's a great playmaker, great on defense, and I'm a believer in the changed shooting form producing continued improved results. That equals a really good player held back only by the finishing issues.
The problem is not just finishing at the rim. If his main asset is his playmaking, he is going to be even more limited if he can’t effectively get to the basket and drive and kick, or effectively run the pick and roll. It’s not a coincidence that most of the top passers in the game (LeBron, Harden, Westbrook, Trae Young, etc.) are also really good at getting to the rim.
Maybe the play-by-play data actually shows that Lonzo drives to the hoop a lot and it just doesn’t result in any free throws or points at the rim, but it’s something that is a serious problem for his playing style.
It’s become trendy to talk about all of the good things Lonzo does, now that he has been shipped out of LA. However, his inability to get into the paint or beat defenders off the dribble is something that probably isn’t talked about enough.
according to what?
He's a 6'6" SG that had a negative DBPM last season that Kemba can easily get by.
I like JRich and he has a nice rep but wasn't mentioned anywhere for All-NBA defensive team.
There are easily a half dozen better PGs at defending.
JRich advanced defensive metrics are nothing special.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richajo01.html
Middle of the pack amongst Shooting Guards in RPM last season
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2019/sort/DRPM/position/2
He wasn't even the best defensive guard on the Miami Heat last season (Justice Winslow)
https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular SeasonView: https://medium.com/sportsraid/best-defense-nba-2019-defensive-player-of-year-first-second-team-gobert-antetokounmpo-turner-b6ec6212a065
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Butler was only with Philly for almost one season. JJ was a bad option but he often drew the job of chasing Kemba.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1nh0pr2gUI
sure JJ Redick is a crappy defender, completely agree. Celtics and Kemba will miss his defense (but not his shooting)
But Kemba hung 60pts on Jimmy Butler and he also roasted Marcus Smart (1st team All NBA) numerous times last year. He even beat JoJo at the rim in the video you posted.
Not sure what Kemba's kryptonite is (other than opening night jitters)? BUT sticking 6'5" SGs to defend him is catnip to Kemba.
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Kemba is special and always has been, going back to UConn when he put the Huskies on his shoulders and won the tournament. He adds a dimension to Boston similar to IT, capable of just taking over the fourth quarter against anyone. So much room for growth in Boston with a set of complementary teammates.
Kemba schooled Thybulle a few times on Opening Night. The rookie fell for similar treatment against Portland’s stellar backcourt. He has a lot to learn. But the season is young.
I think it was talked about so much at UCLA and pre-draft that it’s just baked-in to any discussion about him now, especially after he’s shown little progress in improving what was glaring weakness and massive question mark. Seems like most analysis of him now just takes it as a given, and questions how valuable he can be in spite of it.
What is it with the forearms to the balls this year? Some Rockets guy just slammed his arm into Olynyk's junk (for a flagrant), and Baynes got whacked there recently. NBA players are going to have to start wearing protection, like MLB catchers.
Separately, Houston looks terrible tonight. Miami may be good, but not this good.
Separately, Houston looks terrible tonight. Miami may be good, but not this good.
He was truly impressive. Up until now it's been DH succeeding as a defensive stopper, rebounder, and getting a few lobs and put backs. Which is all the Lakers want/need. But in this one he was even better, including some great passes and super quick hands creating turnovers.
Yeah, there are parts of the game that simply are not what Ball does. It's like those who are hypercritical of Ben Simmons lack of a perimeter shot...….but on a lesser scale since Simmons is already one of the leagues best as is. If Ball had an explosive first step he'd be a first ballot HOFer. If we keep harping on what he isn't rather than what he is we're missing out on someone who should be a real good solid player in this league for a long time.