Offseason Thread - Betty when you call me, you can call me Al
- Thread starter NomarsFool
- Start date
- Status
I like Beal but does swapping him and Brown make this team all that much more competitive? So much of the team’s chances are tied to how Hayward responds after a full offseason. If you could guarantee that he would regain his explosiveness and be 90-95% of Utah Hayward instead of the 70% we saw last season then I’d probably make the deal. With the uncertainty though I’m not sure I’d want to lose JB.
Beal is a 25 year old all-star with three years left on his current deal. I don’t think that even starts the conversation with Washington. If they don’t demand Tatum, I’d guess something like Brown, Smart, 14, and Memphis.
Bradley Beal makes $27.1MM, so theoretically they could fit him under the cap if they renounced Morris and Rozier after Horford and Kyrie depart. It's going to cost Brown, #14, the Memphis pick and more at a minimum. Not even sure Washington listens without Tatum involved.
Believe he only has 2 years left and Wizards are a mess. He is a potential flight risk at some point but agree it will take a lot to get him.
This tweet is a video of Skip Bayless repeating the contents of Sports Talk Barry's manboobs Tweet. I have to think Skip knows better and is kind of trolling. On the other hand, its entirely believable that he fell for it hook, line and sinker...
https://twitter.com/boo_butt44/status/1141478050934210561?s=20
https://twitter.com/boo_butt44/status/1141478050934210561?s=20
Can they work out a sign-and-trade sending Horford out for Capela?
I could get behind that, signing Rubio, and trading #20 and #14 to move up as high as possible and draft the BPA.
Rubio/Smart
Brown/Semi
Tatum/Hayward
Capela/Baynes/Time Lord
With Rookie X and whatever project we draft at 22.
I mean, that would at least be entertaining?
I could get behind that, signing Rubio, and trading #20 and #14 to move up as high as possible and draft the BPA.
Rubio/Smart
Brown/Semi
Tatum/Hayward
Capela/Baynes/Time Lord
With Rookie X and whatever project we draft at 22.
I mean, that would at least be entertaining?
No. No, he really doesn't.
https://streamable.com/hfat3It would have been fantastic if he saw the fart pink eye rumor. Between this clown and SAS, my life is so much better not having cable.
I’m not sure it does. Once they move Rozier on to his new team they’ll have the money to absorb Beal outright, so they can offer the Wiz a lot of salary relief. Even if New Orleans is willing to throw in whoever they draft at #4, what are the odds that they’re ever as good as Brown? I actually think that Brown/#14 can seal the deal. At worst they throw in whomever they acquired in the Rozier deal.
(Not very, then again I’m not terribly high on Garland, his upside strikes me as being the same as Brown’s, top 50ish player. Only JB’s bigger, stronger, more athletic than Garland.)
They won’t get anything near that from anyone.
Well Brown and Memphis was never going to come close to getting you Davis.
And we'll see on Beal, but Washington is nuts if they deal him for something that isn't a Godfather offer
Key difference between Garland and Jaylen is that Garland can flat out shoot the rock. I don’t think Brown/14 gets you anywhere near Beal.
Sure, Garland can shoot the rock, as a 6-2 high school player with some dude you never heard of guarding him on the perimeter. Can Garland defend at the NBA level? We know that Jaylen can. Please, give me a break.
No, but AD was a very unique situation. The Lakers had a huge reason to be desperate and could not possibly pretend otherwise. And Griffin played them like a fiddle with a little help from Danny Ainge, intentional or not.
Where did I say that he could defend like Jaylen? Garland has plus NBA skills in shooting and shot creation. There is a reason why he’s a projected top 5 guy after playing so few gsmes.
So, no, I won’t give you a break. And try actually responding to what people write. Your posts on this board are all over the place.
With Milwaukee dumping Snell on to Detroit, assuming they waive and stretch Leuer, they now have room to make a credible offer to Horford while keeping cap holds for Brogdon and Middleton.
Bledsoe/Brogdon/Middleton/Giannis/Horford would be a pretty hot lineup.
Bledsoe/Brogdon/Middleton/Giannis/Horford would be a pretty hot lineup.
No, but the general discussion was starting with either Tatum or Brown+Memphis and then things would need to be added.
However, that was before the Lakers opened their cupboard to extent no one really expected.
Garland took 23 3PA against 4 crappy college teams, he was the #16 rated recruit in his class.
The draft makes dreamers of us all.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4396907/darius-garland
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2018/order/true
I think they dumped Snell just for luxury tax purposes. While adding Horford would indeed be slick, he would push them way further into tax land.
Kyrie started 8 college games and went #1. The scouting reports all list the same attributes. Nobody is saying he’s Lillard 2.0 but he has drawn comparisons to Lillard and the NBA draft is all projection. There is no dreaming going on here by me at all. I’m not even advocating making the trade, if you’d actually read what I wrote.
You said "Key difference between Garland and Jaylen is that Garland can flat out shoot the rock"
Did you come to that conclusion over the course of 4 college games?
Now Darius Garland possesses Kyrie Irving prospect level attributes? Kyrie was the #3 HS ranked recruit that started 11 games for Duke and finished his career with a 28pt game against Arizona in the NCAA tournament.
He has more in common w/Johny Flynn than Kyrie Irving
It's a 3 player draft...Garland isn't one of them.
Last edited:
Garland was a 5 star recruit. He was mocked in the lottery before he even played a single college game.
The Irving point was to show that limited college games don’t necessary mean anything in the draft. He was a top recruit for a reason. Just like Garland was a 5 star recruit for a reason.
My brother went to Vanderbilt so I was curious about him early on. He is clearly a very good shooter with impressive handle. Go ahead and find me a scouting report that doesn’t list these skills.
That’s great that you have stated that this is a 3 person draft though since I don’t disagree. But when people ask what the intrigue with Garland is, it’s what’s been written about a million times by now. He is a very good shooter and he can create his own shot. Clearly, there are teams who feel he has elite scoring guard potential. This doesn’t mean that I would trade Jaylen for him. I wouldn’t.
You mean Brown AND Tatum, right? You have a cost-controlled All-Star entering the prime of his career while making a leap toward elite. You aren't getting this player for Jaylen and a pick........you are getting hung up on.
Leonsis has been calling the shots there forever. Grunfeld didn't have much more power than their interim guy now.
I'm just salty after experiencing Horford whiplash
The draft is fun and you're entitled to your projections...apologies
I hear ya, man. I like Garland a bit but more in the 6-10 range. Definitely not enough to trade Jaylen + Pick(s) to acquire. He does have some bust potential because he is not an elite athlete and his defense/passing is still raw although he showed brief flashes. In his defense, his teammates were just awful, as evidenced by their 0-18 conference record.
The way too soon mock from last August attached.
Garland is fine. My bigger issue is the smoke and mirrors being created around Kevin Porter Jr. It's like a scout saw KPJ shoot a lefthanded step back jumper in the gym, casually remarked Harden-like move and boom high ceiling prospect.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2789663-way-too-soon-2019-nba-mock-draft-rj-barrett-early-favorite-to-go-no-1#slide11
Yeah, Porter is off my board entirely. He's a headcase who reminds me of Nick Young in so many ways and I feel he could bounce around the league for awhile but he isn't the type of player I want if I'm looking to build a team. I also am biased in the "he's a poor mans -insert star-" hype from MarShon Brook's draft class complete with side-by-side video clips of him and Kobe. Sure, Porter has the same step back as Harden.......with an awful shot selection, terrible attitude, off court issues, and a shot that is released beneath his chin.
Good luck to whoever drafts Porter as I have him lined up next to Bol Bol's team in that good luck camp.
When you demand multiple lottery picks for a defensive negative that doesn’t dominate offensively, well, you get laughed at. So if they’re holding out for a godfather offer for a terrible defensive player, they’re welcome to watch him walk for nothing in a couple of years.
I can’t get behind selling low on Jaylen in the ways that are being proposed upthread. His progress from the draft to the end of year 2 on both ends was incredibly rapid given how raw he was.
Yeah, he stalled a bit last year, but a) that team was a toxic trash fire b) young players rarely progress completely linearly and c) as constructed, that team didn’t let him work on the main piece he needs to add: offensive creation.
His contract situation is less important than his age imo. If he makes the leap this year, you gladly pay him the max. If he doesn’t, his contract is still moveable because of his age and already established skills (he’s better at a younger age and similar salary range than Oladipo was when he was traded to Indy).
You don’t trade young guys with upside to move up in a bad draft. You give them a chance to develop and then go get a similar pick in a betterment draft by tanking if they and the guys around them fail to develop.
Yeah, he stalled a bit last year, but a) that team was a toxic trash fire b) young players rarely progress completely linearly and c) as constructed, that team didn’t let him work on the main piece he needs to add: offensive creation.
His contract situation is less important than his age imo. If he makes the leap this year, you gladly pay him the max. If he doesn’t, his contract is still moveable because of his age and already established skills (he’s better at a younger age and similar salary range than Oladipo was when he was traded to Indy).
You don’t trade young guys with upside to move up in a bad draft. You give them a chance to develop and then go get a similar pick in a betterment draft by tanking if they and the guys around them fail to develop.
Adrian Wojnarowski@wojespn
Boston has offered center Aron Baynes -- $5.4M expiring contract -- into salary cap space elsewhere, league sources tell ESPN. Without Kyrie Irving and Al Horford on the books, moving Baynes without taking back salary could get the Celtics to $23M in space.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1141688710666346498
Boston has offered center Aron Baynes -- $5.4M expiring contract -- into salary cap space elsewhere, league sources tell ESPN. Without Kyrie Irving and Al Horford on the books, moving Baynes without taking back salary could get the Celtics to $23M in space.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1141688710666346498
Last edited:
I’m surprised the Bucks were able to move Snell so easily. $15m for two years of Snell seems like a hefty price to pay for the 30th pick.
So what’s the plan for the C position if Danny dumps Baynes? Even if they want to get TL more minutes and draft a 4/5, you probably don’t want to be relying on that combo to give you too many minutes.
There’s really not a ton in the way of FA options... Vuc, maybe? But he doesn’t really seem to fit the development timeline of the rest of the team and probably costs north of $20mn/year.
Who else is out there? Cousins probably gets a lot of money to put up stats on a bad team. MIL wants to bring back BroLo.
Capela trade has been rumored, but don’t see a need to create cap space for it.
You would think there has be a trade coming for a big man now. Maybe it's Capela and the Baynes move is clearing space for taking a run at a FA as a compliment to any trade?
If Danny has an idea for how to use $25m in cap space, replacing Aron Baynes should not be a problem.
Maybe he's got some team willing to dump a bad salary for a pick and this is really the acceleration of a tear down.
You don't need Aron Baynes on a team that's taking its lumps for the next two years.
Yeah, it sounds like a lot when you say it as $15M, but it's spread out over 2 years. Faried's $15M in one year went for a top-10 protected 1st from the Nuggets (expected to be a lower-end playoff team at the time) IIRC, and DeMarre Carroll's $30M over 2 years went for a Raptors pick expected to be in the 20s.
Cap number possibilities:
https://twitter.com/RedsArmy_John/status/1141697209362202624John KaralisVerified account @RedsArmy_John 11m11 minutes ago
Celtics cap scenarios: Horford/Kyrie leave, trade Baynes, renounce Mook: $18.4 mil
then renounce Larkin/Gibson/Wanamaker/Theis: $24. mil
then renounce Rozier: $32.4 mil
trade out 22 pick: $33.8 mil
trade away all picks: $38 mil.
waive Semi: $38.8 mil (max space scneario)
https://twitter.com/RedsArmy_John/status/1141697209362202624John KaralisVerified account @RedsArmy_John 11m11 minutes ago
Celtics cap scenarios: Horford/Kyrie leave, trade Baynes, renounce Mook: $18.4 mil
then renounce Larkin/Gibson/Wanamaker/Theis: $24. mil
then renounce Rozier: $32.4 mil
trade out 22 pick: $33.8 mil
trade away all picks: $38 mil.
waive Semi: $38.8 mil (max space scneario)
This is like a last-place team asking "who will be our closer?"
I think the goal is to get the right set of core guys, then you hunt for a center---which in their system and with TL in place is a 20 minute a game role, less some nights. There'll be min FAs you can use for that, they might draft someone, and they might just gut it out with a bad min FA for a while until they figure out if they are any good next year.
That's all to say that there's no games tomorrow...
More on Baynes -
Keith Smith@KeithSmithNBA
To clear something up with news that Aron Baynes could be traded by the Boston Celtics for cap space: This is a mutual thing. Baynes wanted to stay in Boston, if the Celtics were also going to be contenders. As some things have changed, Baynes and Boston are looking for trades.
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1141706021209104385
Keith Smith@KeithSmithNBA
To clear something up with news that Aron Baynes could be traded by the Boston Celtics for cap space: This is a mutual thing. Baynes wanted to stay in Boston, if the Celtics were also going to be contenders. As some things have changed, Baynes and Boston are looking for trades.
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1141706021209104385
I was shocked that Baynes opted-in to this contract while putting himself in this position. He went from having control of his destination and (likely) a second guaranteed year to being a pawn liable to be playing in Bolivia this year. We are used to seeing young players entering the league receive bad advice but what is the excuse for Baynes representation to allow this to happen? How does a veteran like Baynes sign on with a guy with so little experience/success as an NBA agent? This is such an underreported and bizarre story.
https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Daniel-Moldovan/148
I call bullshit on this. It doesn't pass the smell test. If Baynes was unsure of the direction of the Celtics then guess what.........you're a FA and have leverage! You don't have to now be held hostage as to your next destination without any future security. The old adage is that "rumors" are either leaked from a team or from an agent, whichever benefits the most. This sounds like an agent leaking info with the hopes it cleans off some of the egg from his face.
- Status