Don’t want Philly pitching to have a chance to see him hit if they line up in the World Series.
Smart.
Smart.
Rebirth of a Sale, man
- Thread starter reggiecleveland
- Start date
When they won the third game, my first thought was "I hope they push Sale back to give him more time." My second thought was "if they do that, I'm going to freak out worrying that there is actually something wrong."
Agreed. Not to jinx things / talk about things too early and take things for granted, and we're still a bit away from there, but we're not too far from the point where the focus shifts to being in the best position possible come playoff time. Unless things dramatically change, no need to rush or risk anything.
9-1/2 game lead and coming off a 4-game sweep where Porcello, Eovaldi and Price looked great. They'd be stupid to not take the opportunity to give Sale some late-season rest and maximise the chances that he's on peak form come October. As soon as ERod comes back I'd like to see Pom thrown into the pen and see how he looks ramping up the velocity for 1 inning relief stints. The way this team has weathered injuries has been great, but we could be in position to see it at its healthiest and most dominant when it counts most.
And even Brian Johnson looked encouraging, though he did give up 3 HRs. The Yankees will do that to you though.
He's been a quiet surprise....at least to me. I expected replacement level or worse from him. But he's improved his swinging strike numbers and as a result, his overall K numbers, while also somewhat lowering his FB%. That makes him a completely competent 5th starter.
And that was his worst start of the season. Johnson as a starter this year:
7 GS, 35 IP, 2.57 ERA, .248/.318/.409 against, 9.00 K/9, 3.60 BB/9, 1.54 HR/9, 1.37 WHIP, .292 BABIP, 4.59 FIP, 4.34 xFIP
I think he's going to surprise a lot of people because I think he is a classic over performer, the sum is greater than the individual parts type. He dominated the minors by not allowing HRs and not giving up to many free passes. I think 2016 is safe to ignore because he was robbed at gun point and pitched most of the year with anxiety issues. In 2017, it was a return to form and more of the same. I wouldn't be shocked if he was close to a league average starter.
He's actually "pitched" better as a reliever based on the numbers. His K/BB is better, his HR/9 is better, etc. He's just been way luckier as a starter. His BABIP as a starter is almost 70 points lower and his strand rate is way higher. That's not to say he shouldn't ever start. As I mentioned above, I think he's pitched perfectly competently as a 5th starter even when you remove all the luck. We just shouldn't expect the pixie dust to stay on him. He's probably closer to a mid-high 4s ERA type guy as a starter.
Does his stuff really play better out of the pen? I'd guess he also faces a higher percentage of righties when he comes out of the pen but I could be wrong. His BAbip as a starter is .292 while out of the pen it's .359 so it could just be bad luck. His HR rate and BB rate are significantly lower out of the pen while his K rate is higher starting. I'm sure 99.999% of it is just random noise in a small sample size.
Average era in the AL this year is 4.22, so pretty close to average or slightly below.
Pretty simple reason: until this season, he had never pitched out of the pen in his entire professional career. It's a different set of skills, if you haven't done it before.
I agree with the first post here. If you look at his MLB totals to this point, the K/9 and BB/9 are almost identical to those of his 500+ minor league innings. The difference is in the contact quality MLB hitters make against him. A portion of that is probably just their greater ability to capitalize on mistakes. The H/9 and HR/9 are much higher. But he's a "control" guy with a mix of pitches who works around the edges and doesn't have overpowering stuff. He's the type of guy who should outperform his FIP or xFIP.
I think it probably is mostly noise. And, I would think his stuff probably suits him better as a starter, really. He doesn't have the raw stuff or velocity for big strikeout numbers, and his GB rates aren't anything great. His strengths seem to be in being able to mix and match and command 4 pitches to keep hitters off balance. His career (it's only 96 IP) 4.11 ERA/4.30 FIP/4.55 xFIP seem about right to me, and that would make him a decent starter. This year has been a bit wacky, as you guys point out, in terms of his starter/reliever splits. They even out and make his overall line this season pretty representative of what he's done.
Agree, and I think you could rephrase it: They have to have the guts to take the risk of sitting a guy like Sale and his replacement not winning. Tito always took this risk, and the team tended to do OK. The reward was a rested team hitting the post-season. Farrell managed scared all year, and wore out his best players in the regular season. At some point you have to be able to say, this is a team playing at an historic pace, we can risk a few games against whoever is on the schedule.
Exactly. You don't think they'd have risked resting Sale if they were playing a good team like the A's do you?
I was talking about the Blue Jays this week. Thursday it sounded like they really needed to shut him down, now they're just picking a spot to start up again.
“While Chris Sale won’t be activated from the disabled list as soon as he’s eligible, Red Sox manager Alex Cora told reporters (including the Boston Herald’s Jason Mastrodonato) that the delay isn’t due to any setback with Sale’s shoulder. The team was simply lining up its rotation so that Sale wouldn’t be starting, and thus batting, during an interleague series in Philadelphia next week. The ace left-hander will likely make his return to start against the Orioles on August 11 or 12, Cora said.” Per MLBTR
Eovaldi pitches Friday. Price and TBA are the listed starters for Saturday. My guess is TBA will probably be a committee game...maybe Pomeranz or Johnson on short rest backed by the other and Velazquez?
You get a 26th player on Double Header days. There might be someone in Pawtucket coming up for a spot start like Cuevas?
Why not just start Sale on Saturday? Off day Monday, so they can empty the pen Sunday whether they start Pomeranz on regular rest or Velazquez.
THIS
They need an innings eater for the day with the doubleheader. And then he'd get extra rest for the day off the following Thursday, and start the Friday.
Right. 2 days off next week means that the doubleheader doesn't screw up the rotation after.
FWIW--ESPN lists Sale on Sunday. Although I still think Saturday is better, there's some logic for Sunday - between the extra player Saturday and the Sale DL slot it creates some roster flexibility.
How amazing is Sale? Working with a very strict pitch count in his first start off the DL, he goes out and pitches a 5 inning one hitter with 12 strikeouts in 68 pitches.
He was amazing, but I thought with how much the 'pen has worked lately that he should have gone one more inning or up to 80 pitches.
After the game Cora said the plan was 75. Yeah it's only 5 more, but if 5 why not 10. The team is in a position to make a plan and stick to it.
Agree with uncanny. Please retitle thread or start a new one for Sale. My first thought was "now I know why they took him out." And it didn't help when the MLB announcer made some sort of lame joke about Cora saying he was limiting him to 100 pitches today.
It’s either the bullpen or Sale who gets stretched (a little). One of those two
things is replaceable, the other is not.
Also, one thing I love about Cora is that he gives no fucks when it comes to people carping that players are “soft” if they are injured and can’t play. When guys need a blow, they get a blow, period.
And another Thursday too. With the 8-man pen they're still carrying, barring some sort of disaster in Philly (specifically a quick exit by a starter), they should be able to get everyone some down time this week.
Thanks, but still a missed opportunity that it's not "Love for Sale."
Last seven starts: 79 strikeouts, one run allowed. Is that good?
