Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

Zion train is coming our way

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by DannyDarwinism, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,633
    Zion's now listed at 285, which would make him the second heaviest player in the NBA (behind Boban), if he were in the NBA rather than high school.

    Guys that heavy should not be able to do this:



    That is insane. I still don't know what to make of him as a prospect, but as a freight-train with handles, he's fun as hell. Duke is going to be appointment viewing with him, Reddish, Barrett and Trey Jones.
     
  2. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,941
    I'd be extremely worried about someone at 19 that's 6'6" 300lbs.
     
  3. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,961
    You always round people's weight to the nearest hundred?
    :)
     
  4. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,672
    Julius Randle 2.0—but shorter and heavier and even more positionless.
     
  5. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Works for me. I'm 5'11" 200 lbs.
     
  6. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,941
    If he's listed at 285 who knows how much he really weighs. I assume that he will likely gain weight between now and the draft; although I suppose he could slim down.
     
  7. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,332
    Meh. Yabusele, who is listed at 260 but who is probably closer to 280, can probably do that.
     
  8. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,633
    Wrong.
     
  9. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,276
    Zion is going to be fascinating to follow this year. He had better demonstrate an ability to shoot.
     
  10. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,941
    I've said this before, but he has to develop an NBA skill that isn't just the ability to jump high. Can he pass? Can he shoot? Play really good defense? Watching him play against top competition in college is going to tell us a lot; him and Bol Bol are the two most interesting prospects to me.
     
  11. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,297
    Maybe he should be playing TE. Gronk replacement??
     
  12. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,297
    Wouldn’t he not be a top 10 prospect if that was his only skill?
     
  13. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,941
    I don’t know what to expect from him. He has some impressive dunks in high school; but he’s so much bigger/stronger/athletic than his competition it’s hard to really gauge what his professional skill level is going to be. I don’t think in high school he showed himself to be a professional level passer, shooter or defender, simply because he didn’t have to. Maybe he can do those things or can learn to do those things, but we simply don’t know. Honestly he could be the next Charles Barkley or the next Anthony Bennett.
     
  14. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,332
    The next Robert Traylor or Oliver Miller is the most likely scenario.
     
    #14 Big John, Aug 14, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  15. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,114
    He reminds me more of Grandmama (Barkley had a much broader game), Bennett he ain’t. If Bennett were that athletic he wouldn’t have busted out.

    But I completely agree that it will be fascinating to watch him against ACC competition. His slashing game was definitely dominant at Division 3 high school competition. But he really needs to learn to shoot the three ball, even if he only becomes a spot shooter.

    Without that he’s just bench depth. If he can’t show any progress on that front over the college season he’ll probably slide into the 9-15 range on draft night. He’s fortunate that he’s entering the NBA now, a decade ago he’d’ve been in and out of the NBA in a heartbeat.
     
  16. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,633
    Here's a really thorough write-up of his actual game- outside of just the thunderous jams- and how it may or may not translate: https://www.thestepien.com/2018/08/12/early-2019-draft-thoughts-zion-williamson/

    Zwicker is one of the best guys out if you're looking to read up on player evaluations, and he nails part of the Zion phenomenon here: "Williamson has been celebrated for his high-flying showman finishes at lower levels to the point where it has arguably made him gimmicky and detracted from his perceived value as a prospect in many ways. When all people see is you dunking, the stigma starts to evolve in a connective chain from all he does is dunk to can he do anything else to the final stage of assuming he is limited to an athlete-only designation."
     
  17. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,114
    That is an excellent write up. Everyone freaks out about his size, and ultimately that size might shorten his career. Much like Pedro’s size shortened his (in that the sort of stress that that level of athletic performance puts on his body will cause the relevant joints to break down more quickly).

    But in the near term that unholy LeBronesque level of athleticism guarantees that he’s going to have an NBA career. And if he can learn to shoot spot threes probably a very good one at that. He does need to improve his handle some more, but it’s not like he’s Avery Bradley out there.

    Luckily for him in the pace & space era, where teams are increasingly playing three wings, his athleticism makes him the perfect sort of switchy defender. Right now I have him fifth on my board after the other two Dukies, Nassir Little, and the French kid, Doumbouya (the more video I watch of him the more I like him).

    Overall I love the top five of this class. Reddish is favorite at the moment (and likely to remain there so long as he doesn’t completely Fultz up his jumper), but Little reminds me of a 6’6” Marcus Smart who can at least hit wide open threes (which would be a great player to have). Doumbouya reminds me a little of the young Boris Diaw, albeit a better shooter. Then there’s Barrett and Williamson to round things out. Here’s hoping that Boston lands #2 and that they get their pick.
     
  18. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,297
  19. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,675
    Zion Williamson doesn't look like an NBA starter is his future to me. Maybe he develops, but he's a 6'5" center, he appears to have zero skills, his agility is garbage, he's just strong and a good vertical leaper.

    Who is his comp?
     
  20. Big John

    Big John lurker

    Messages:
    1,332
    No need to reach any conclusions about Williamson now. He will be under a microscope at Duke. Let's wait and see how he does. I'm not a huge fan, but what do I know? I've seen a few highlight reels of him playing in high school, that's all.
     
  21. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,961
    lol

    Yesterday he was 300 pounds, today he is only 6'5" tall.

    He is 6'7" 285 pounds
     
  22. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,114
    By draft night he’ll be 6’2” 500 lbs.
     
  23. HowBoutDemSox

    HowBoutDemSox Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,324
    If nothing else, he'll produce some fun highlights this season.

     
  24. slamminsammya

    slamminsammya Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,765
    All I could think of watching that was this:
     
  25. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,114
    When does Duke play Cadwallader?
     
  26. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,675
    He's not 6'7" you could maybe talk me into 6'6" but even that is questionable, Duke is padding his height he'll probably be between 6'5.5" and 6'6.5" if he lets them measure him at the combine
     
  27. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,276
    Best comp for me is a more athletic but less skilled Rodney Rogers
     
  28. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,151
    Nice callback
     
  29. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,297
    Needs to learn to finish with his right
     
  30. EL Jeffe

    EL Jeffe Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    526
    He measured at 6'5" barefoot for the junior national team last October.. It's possible he's grown in the past 9-10 months, but 6'5" was an official measurement not too long ago. Regardless, it will be fun to watch him against higher-end competition. He's definitely a unique cat.

    https://247sports.com/Bolt/Zion-Williamson-puts-up-eye-popping-measurements-108682175/
     
  31. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,114
    The right hand and learning to extend his range are definitely the two biggest flags on him.
     
  32. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,297
    Did hit a few 3s last night
     
  33. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,114
    Yeah, but let’s see him do that against Nevada State. (God do I have an irrational love of that movie.)
     
  34. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,297
    Right. I'm a Duke fan and I'm skeptical of Zion, and Duke in general. They are going to be fascinating to watch.
     
  35. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,961
    Not sure how any of us know exactly how tall he is or whether he grew an inch or so in the previous year. I was just being snarky in the fact that people seem to be overestimating his weight and underestimating his height. Just seems to be a collective push to make him appear short and fat
     
  36. Sprowl

    Sprowl Emile de Becque Dope

    Messages:
    30,684
    Split off from the 2019 Draft thread.
     
  37. Eagle3

    Eagle3 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    362
    How is it teams are playing exhibition games now? Did I miss a NCAA rule change? I thought they couldn't practice until October. Isnt that the reason for the whole Midnight Madness thing?
     
  38. NickEsasky

    NickEsasky Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,013
    I never understood this. Do people play basketball barefoot? Unless he is wearing platform shoes on the court I think it's ok to give him the height he plays in in basketball shoes.
     
  39. EddieYost

    EddieYost has a special friend in GHoff Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,646
    Yes and when they weigh football players it should be with their pads on.
     
  40. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,009
    Isn’t it simply to take out the variance of gear? Measure everyone’s true height and then they can wear whatever they want. I know the difference is going to be minimal, but why not do it this way?
     
    #40 djbayko, Aug 16, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  41. NickEsasky

    NickEsasky Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,013
    You're probably right that is the best way. The only point I was making is that some people seem to assume it makes a huge difference when all the guys play in sneakers not barefoot. All guys are getting a bump and it's unlikely to affect anything. Much ado about nothing IMO.
     
  42. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,094
    This is common as NCAA rules allow for a team to make foreign summer tours once every four years. Teams have been doing this for years it's just that the Dukies are receiving a big media following due to Barrett, Zion, etc. For example, Kentucky just returned from their second trip to the Bahamas last week but nobody was talking about them. Providence was in Italy a couple summers ago too.
     
  43. Dernells Casket n Flagon

    Dernells Casket n Flagon Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,270
    Everyone remembers UCLA in China last year...
     
  44. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    36,571
    Nobody was talking about them? ESPN sent Seth Greenberg and Dan Dakich down to the Bahamas to air all the games on ESPN+ and SEC Network.
     
  45. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,633
    Keldon Johnson looked really good, he'll a likely lotto guy next year too.
     
  46. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,534
    In some cases, I'm sure it is. We have a tendency to make decisions about a young guy and stick to it forever, trying to fit everything that happens into our predetermined narrative.

    I have no idea if Zion is going to be a solid NBA player. It seems a bit early to make that call, since we have a whole season of college ball to watch. But some already have decided. Those that are 100% convinced that he has a low ceiling are going to spend the next few years finding all of the reasons that possibly back up that belief. Get used to it.
     
  47. Cellar-Door

    Cellar-Door Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,675
    Since it seems like my post started it.....

    I don't think there is no chance Zion could be good, I was just noting that his NBA fit is not great at all and I don't get why he would be considered and elite prospect with his huge fit/skill flaws.

    I do think an inch makes a difference. 6'7" with mediocre wingspan is small for a PF, very small nearly unplayable for a center. 6'6" with mediocre wingspan is probably unplayable at the 5, and is starting to be an issue at the 4. It's partially what the height also tells us, we can look at him and see his reach and wingspan ratios to his body, if he's 6'5" or 6'6" there is an effect on reach and wingspan, and those are very important for the ability to play a "big" position in the NBA.

    Now maybe I'm wrong and he turns out to be an elite passer, more agile than he's shown and can be an undersized 4, but I just think way too many people are taking 1 element of athleticism (vertical) and making out that he's an elite NBA athlete, and that certainly doesn't seem to be the case so far.

    edit- also he's not fat at all, he's heavy and bulky, but if he's agile that is an asset not a liability.
     
  48. thehitcat

    thehitcat Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,487
    What's all this about a fat hobbit with ups?
     
  49. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,805
    He's the second coming of Yabusele, of course. :)

    But with respect to the bolded, if you look at the videos Zwicker used as part of his piece, he definitely has some ball-handling skills and his feet are pretty good,. which means he also has some post skills.

    He's a pretty extraordinary athlete for a guy his size, and that's not even including jumping.

    Yes, he's going to have to expand his game to have any kind of NBA career. (But then, who doesn't - other than Jayson Tatum?) If I were Zion Williamson playing against some of the opponents in the Zwicker videos, I would have played completely right handed.
     
  50. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,094
    Meaning nobody was talking about it on SoSH. Zero posts on the topic in the Port Cellar and zero posts in the college sports thread.
     

Share This Page