Xander Bogaerts Offense : Warmer than Orlando in January

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Corsi

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LondonSox said:
 
Now either Drew plays third, and is what a marginal at best upgrade to holt with WMB and Cecchini options when healthy/ ready respectively.
 
See, this is where you lose me.  Drew is much better than WMB, both offensively and defensively.  There's nothing marginal about it.  WMB has been playing replacement level baseball for a while now.  I think we need to stop thinking we're going to get the guy who had a good 75 games in 2012.
 
And Holt has been on a good run, but I think folks on this board are really getting fooled by his hot 15 game start.  I like the kid and hope he sticks in some capacity, but his name shouldn't even be uttered in the same breath as Drew's.  
 
Can we stop pretending like Drew isn't a really, really good player?  He's going to make this team a lot better, on both sides of the ball.  Whether that's at short or third is up to the manager, but regardless, he's going to improve the ballclub.  Ultimately, that's all I care about.  Xander will be just fine at 3B if that's where he sticks for the rest of the season.  The kid is 21 going on 30 and will rise to the occasion just like he has at every other stop of his young career.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Alcohol&Overcalls said:
 
Most lineup simulations say to hit the best hitter 2nd, IIRC - it's contrary to popular concept. Of course, the difference is fractions of a run per year, so the team will likely stick with what players are comfortable with.
 
I think the #2 hole is perfect for Bogaerts this year (and for the team).  
 
As one of the best hitters (and OBP guys) on the team, you want him getting the extra plate appearances from hitting at the top of the order.  But even though he's got a OBP that most leadoff hitters would be proud of, I think it would be a mistake to hit him leadoff. At this point in his career, he should be focused on developing his overall skills as a hitter and not overly focused on getting on base.  Finally, I think we want him hitting in front of good hitters - part of his high early season walk rate was from hitting in front of Pierzynski and other lesser hitters.  
 
On May 16, Xander's slash line was .254/.360/.348.  Not bad.  I look at that as "holding his own" while adjusting to the majors. 
 
In the 13 games since then: .434/.483/.660.  
 
This kid is going to live up to the hype.
 

smastroyin

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Guys, can we please contain the Drew signing talk to the thread about Drew?  I suspect many of you are saying the same things in more than one thread. 
 
I'm going to move posts, but leave this note here.
 

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Eddie Jurak said:
 
I think the #2 hole is perfect for Bogaerts this year (and for the team).  
 
As one of the best hitters (and OBP guys) on the team, you want him getting the extra plate appearances from hitting at the top of the order.  But even though he's got a OBP that most leadoff hitters would be proud of, I think it would be a mistake to hit him leadoff. At this point in his career, he should be focused on developing his overall skills as a hitter and not overly focused on getting on base.  Finally, I think we want him hitting in front of good hitters - part of his high early season walk rate was from hitting in front of Pierzynski and other lesser hitters.  
 
On May 16, Xander's slash line was .254/.360/.348.  Not bad.  I look at that as "holding his own" while adjusting to the majors. 
 
In the 13 games since then: .434/.483/.660.  
 
This kid is going to live up to the hype.
 
Just to tack on, for those who don't like the maths, that's a .226 ISO power over the last two weeks. on FG, .200 is considered great and .250 excellent. For comparison, Papi was .255 last year and Napoli was .223.
 
And that doesn't incorporate things like "Hit the damned thing so hard the infielder can't hold on and Holt has time to get to second." X has been knocking the cover off the ball of late.
 
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yeah, hes becoming the best hitter on the team, right before our eyes, at age 21. Highest average, highest OBP (or Napoli has the edge, this is from memory) ... wait until the power comes. Manny-esque!

As I mentioned in the game thread a few days ago, this is going to be a fun summer (watching him get better)
 

jimbobim

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They need to start thinking about getting Boras to sign some landmark extension. 
 
Andrus whose glove is probably considerably better compared to X now and I guess one could say the Rangers had two years to look at consistency when it comes to the bat. 
 
X's bat is just at minimum very good at best elite. 
 
8 year 120 to take X till his age 29 year would be very player and team friendly. Team wise you'd probably want some more years. 
 

Byrdbrain

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HriniakPosterChild said:
The Rays would have already bought out some FA years if he were one of theirs, right?
I'm sure his agent, Scott Boras, would go along with that.
 
Edit: Yeah I guess I should have read the post after this one first.
I just don't see Boras even thinking about signing away any free agent years this soon.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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jimbobim said:
They need to start thinking about getting Boras to sign some landmark extension. 
 
Andrus whose glove is probably considerably better compared to X now and I guess one could say the Rangers had two years to look at consistency when it comes to the bat. 
 
X's bat is just at minimum very good at best elite. 
 
8 year 120 to take X till his age 29 year would be very player and team friendly. Team wise you'd probably want some more years. 
 
Team friendly?  They have him locked up for six years just going year to year.  Figuring his arb numbers at $4M, $8M, $12M, that's 6 years at ~ $26M total.  Maybe he gets bigger arbitration numbers that bring it up to $35-40M total.  That's a gigantic leap from 6/$40M to 8/$120M.  I don't see that as a win for the Sox at all.
 

Apisith

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It's far more likely to be 8/$60m than 8/$120m because he's so far away from free agency that the discount we'd want to cover the injury and performance risk would have to be pretty big. Boras would sign up for 8/$120m in a heartbeat at this point.
 

Dogman

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
How about, now that the kid is in a groove and appears comfortable out there, we just leave him the hell alone for a while?
 
 
P91 says the season is lost so moving him around won't affect the outcome or his outcomes at all!  
 

Plympton91

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Dogman2 said:
 
 
P91 says the season is lost so moving him around won't affect the outcome or his outcomes at all!  
 
The conclusion does not follow from the premise.  Whether the season is lost has no effect on how well Xander adjusts to 3B.  And, if Xander is messed up by switching between 3B and SS then he'd eventually fall on his face anyway when an inevitably much, much larger hardship befalls him.  I don't expect it to matter; he started hitting like an MVP just as I always expected him to.  The improvement at SS over the past two weeks has been a pleasant and unexpected surprise though.  Still, no player is bigger than the team, and the team's biggest need right now is 3B.  Xander moves over, hopefully enthusiastically and willingly, as any team-oriented major league player should.   If a prime of his career Alex Rodriguez can move off of shortstop, anyone can.
 

Dogman

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The premise is completely wrong.  There is 4 months of baseball to be played and the team is 6 games back.  My conclusion was nothing more than sarcasm based on a ridiculous statement that you have now made more than once. 
 
I too hope his movement to 3B is done so with enthusiasm and he continues his excellent season.  Either way, the team is playing well in almost all facets and if it continues the Red Sox will maintain pace throughout the season.
 

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Yes, no player is bigger than the team and if it is better for the team that Stephen Drew remains in AAA until he shakes off the cobwebs and rust from being unemployed, he's going to happily do so.
 

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This needs to be said before circumstances allow people to fly off the handle:
 
Moving a player X from position A to position B should have absolutely no impact on player X's ability to square up the ball at the plate. If it does, player X has weak fortitude.
 
Anything else is pure coincidence.
 
(Note: it's equally incorrect that Pedroia should have remained at SS, along with Machado; or that Victorino or Gardiner needed to be in CF, etc., etc., etc)
 

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Player X, like the rest of us, has to contend with the fact that there are a finite number of hours in the day. Time he is spending taking additional reps at position B is time he can't be spending working in the cage, looking at video of opposing pitchers, and so forth.
 

Drek717

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MuzzyField said:
Yes, no player is bigger than the team and if it is better for the team that Stephen Drew remains in AAA until he shakes off the cobwebs and rust from being unemployed, he's going to happily do so.
Come on.  There is literally zero chance that Stephen Drew with a pair of shackles on his hands and arms isn't a better player than Jonathan Herrera, one good game aside.
 
Should they reintroduce Drew slowly, riding the offensive surge delivered by Holt and Bogaerts at the top of the lineup?  Sure.  Should they institute a permanent platoon for Drew against LHP, moving Bogaerts back to short and anyone (Holt or WMB) to 3B?  Definitely.  But Stephen Drew had a slash line of .284/.377/.498 against RHP last season.  For his career he's been a .275/.343/.451 guy against RHP.  Work him back slowly to be sure, but odds are that Holt is coming back down to earth here in a few weeks and should that happen it'll sure be nice to transition over to a Bogaerts/Drew left side with what each of them can do against RHP.
 
As an added bonus: platooning Drew lets Xander get a pretty regular turn at SS.  While playing 2/3rds of his games at 3B and 1/3rd at SS probably isn't best for his maturation as a SS specifically, I don't think it's going to be substantially worse.  Xander's biggest defensive concern is how he reads and reacts to fast grounders in my opinion, 3B will drill him on that just as much as SS.
 
It's all about the game slowing down for him.  It has at the plate, it's starting to in the field.  That will continue at 3B or SS and he'll be a better SS next year as a result.
 

MuzzyField

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Drek717 said:
Come on.  There is literally zero chance that Stephen Drew with a pair of shackles on his hands and arms isn't a better player than Jonathan Herrera, one good game aside.
 
Should they reintroduce Drew slowly, riding the offensive surge delivered by Holt and Bogaerts at the top of the lineup?  Sure.  Should they institute a permanent platoon for Drew against LHP, moving Bogaerts back to short and anyone (Holt or WMB) to 3B?  Definitely.  But Stephen Drew had a slash line of .284/.377/.498 against RHP last season.  For his career he's been a .275/.343/.451 guy against RHP.  Work him back slowly to be sure, but odds are that Holt is coming back down to earth here in a few weeks and should that happen it'll sure be nice to transition over to a Bogaerts/Drew left side with what each of them can do against RHP.
 
As an added bonus: platooning Drew lets Xander get a pretty regular turn at SS.  While playing 2/3rds of his games at 3B and 1/3rd at SS probably isn't best for his maturation as a SS specifically, I don't think it's going to be substantially worse.  Xander's biggest defensive concern is how he reads and reacts to fast grounders in my opinion, 3B will drill him on that just as much as SS.
 
It's all about the game slowing down for him.  It has at the plate, it's starting to in the field.  That will continue at 3B or SS and he'll be a better SS next year as a result.
 

MuzzyField

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I was thinking days, not weeks. Drew providing that slash line is pretty important, giving the overall heath of the lineup. The lineup triage that Stephen Drew supplies, when ready, was needed two-weeks ago. Unfortunately, staying in shape at Camp Boras, didn't allow this to be a plug-and-play transaction. I'd like the criteria for his arrival to be based on the quality of his at-bats in Pawtucket, rather than just the quantity and a date on the calendar.
 

Drek717

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MuzzyField said:
I was thinking days, not weeks. Drew providing that slash line is pretty important, giving the overall heath of the lineup. The lineup triage that Stephen Drew supplies, when ready, was needed two-weeks ago. Unfortunately, staying in shape at Camp Boras, didn't allow this to be a plug-and-play transaction. I'd like the criteria for his arrival to be based on the quality of his at-bats in Pawtucket, rather than just the quantity and a date on the calendar.
Holt is pretty damn locked in right now.  Not something I'd want to mess with.  Personally I'd like to see Drew join the team on Monday and if Pedroia is good to go sit on the bench day one.  Day two he takes his first start at short, Xander to 3B, and depending on where Pedroia is at maybe Holt gives him a day off.
 
I'm really hoping Farrell lays down the law and uses the addition of Drew to start giving Pedroia a little extra time off too, especially with the most recent hand issue.  Dustin beats the crap out of himself every year.  I'd really like to see the kind of hitter he could be in the second half if he gets a few more scheduled days off a month than zero.
 

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Drek717 said:
Holt is pretty damn locked in right now.  Not something I'd want to mess with.  Personally I'd like to see Drew join the team on Monday and if Pedroia is good to go sit on the bench day one.  Day two he takes his first start at short, Xander to 3B, and depending on where Pedroia is at maybe Holt gives him a day off.
 
I'm really hoping Farrell lays down the law and uses the addition of Drew to start giving Pedroia a little extra time off too, especially with the most recent hand issue.  Dustin beats the crap out of himself every year.  I'd really like to see the kind of hitter he could be in the second half if he gets a few more scheduled days off a month than zero.
The Pedroia point is certainly vital to this teams long-term success, this season and beyond.  I don't think, in spite of several effort induced injuries and Dustin's insistence on playing through them, he's yet shown to be capable of refining his game in a way that allows him to perform at his maximum over the long haul of a season, particularly at the plate.  Hand and wrist issues are not conducive to major league hitting at a high level.  The solution to this, as you prescribe, would be some regular rest.  The no-rest, maximum effort, play with pain guy is great in theory, but in performance, not so much.  I really thought the light in Dustin's head, combined with the pains in his body, would have illuminated this reality to him by now.   With a deeper roster of infield options, management can soon make this point for him.  I hope management actually does it. 
 
Dustin needs to learn the Cole Trickle lesson from Days of Thunder.  Sometimes slower = faster, in Dustin's case it's over a 162-game baseball season.   You can't use up all of your "stuff" before the end of June and be the same guy in September and October.
 

Sam Ray Not

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A few anagrams for "Xander Bogaerts."
 
Red Sox bat, range.
Red Sox grab a ten.
Red Sox nab great.
 
Is this kid for real?

 
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Xander's OPS+ was 131 going into tonight's game and will probably go up at least a bit with the HR and HBP (writing this halfway through).
 
There are exactly three players in major league history who managed an OPS+ of 130 or better in a full (i.e. qualifying) season, with rookie status, while playing at least a third of their games at shortstop.
 
Two of them are long forgotten, though they had decent, albeit abbreviated, careers: Billy Grabarkewitz and Charlie Hollocher.
 
The other is Rogers Hornsby.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Would Bogaerts/Boras accept a 5 year, $75M deal, with 10 team options at $15M per year? Effectively, it could work out to a 15 year, $150M deal.
 
If so, should/would the Red Sox offer it?
 
If not to either or both questions, what should the Red Sox offer, and what would probably get it done?
 

Eddie Jurak

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Hank Scorpio said:
Would Bogaerts/Boras accept a 5 year, $75M deal, with 10 team options at $15M per year? Effectively, it could work out to a 15 year, $150M deal.
 
If so, should/would the Red Sox offer it?
 
If not to either or both questions, what should the Red Sox offer, and what would probably get it done?
Bogaerts will make far, far more than $150 million over the next 15 years.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Hank Scorpio said:
Would Bogaerts/Boras accept a 5 year, $75M deal, with 10 team options at $15M per year? Effectively, it could work out to a 15 year, $150M deal.
 
If so, should/would the Red Sox offer it?
 
If not to either or both questions, what should the Red Sox offer, and what would probably get it done?
 
I can't see Boras giving the green light to such a deal.  I can see him greenlighting a long term deal that still allows Bogaerts to hit free agency before age 30-31...so a 7-8 year deal for $75 or so might get it done.
 

radsoxfan

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Hank Scorpio said:
Would Bogaerts/Boras accept a 5 year, $75M deal, with 10 team options at $15M per year? Effectively, it could work out to a 15 year, $150M deal.
 
If so, should/would the Red Sox offer it?
 
If not to either or both questions, what should the Red Sox offer, and what would probably get it done?
 
Xander/Boras would never accept that in a million years.  First of all, team options are only good for the team, not the player.  There is zero incentive for a player to ever sign a contract that has team options. It can only hurt the player. 
 
Also, this would end up being a 15 year, $225M deal if the Red Sox exercised all of the options. 
 

nvalvo

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I'd say that an extension for Bogaerts should be a high priority over the off season. I want to lay out the reasoning behind a deal I think would be conceivable, made with the very large assumption that Bogaerts finishes the season healthy, having compiled the 6 fWAR season he's currently on pace for. I'll be very interested to refine this with your input. 
 
Some parameters. The three years of arbitration are supposed to approximate 40%, 60%, and 80% of FA value. Ryan Howard, a few years back, set a record with a $10m Arb1 settlement, implicitly valuing him as the $25m AAV player he has since come to be (and will remain through 2016). That followed years worth 2, 6 and 3 fWAR; I think we can agree in retrospect that that valuation was too high, especially back in '08. But I think we can also accept that it would be too low for Xander today. Xander is on a much more promising trajectory than Howard's early seasons. His best comp, I'd say, is a young Alex Rodriguez, whose age 20 and 21 seasons were a bit better and worse respectively, than Xander's first season as I'm projecting it out. FA Rodriguez is a $30m/year player. I think that needs to be Xander's comp value for arb purposes, if Howard was pegged to $25 six years ago, and before the flood of new TV money. It's also a conservative $5m/WAR.
 
With no extension, years 2/3 are worth $500k per. Year 4 would be $12, Year 5 $18, and Year 6 $24m. So the expected cost of Xander's pre-FA years, going year to year, is about $55m.
 
He would expect to hit FA in 2020, after his age 26 season. I think it's fair to say that he would be in line for a big deal at that age, so any FA years we want to buy out in an extension need to be well compensated. Mike Trout just gave the Angels three FA years in an extension; let's say Xander does that. We'll consider market rate for those to be $30m per year, also. We're implicitly projecting him as a 5-6 WAR player through the life of the deal, with the upside and downside risks associated with performance variability, injury and inflation more or less balancing out. 
 
$55m pre-FA plus three FA years at $30m per takes us to $145m, or pretty much exactly what Mike Trout signed for over the offseason.
 
But wait, you're saying — Mike Trout is significantly better than Bogaerts. He's put up back to back seasons worth 10 fWAR and change, and is on pace to repeat that again. This gives us a market-derived sense of the discount that an elite pre-arb player should expect to trade for the security of a long term deal. Mike Trout, a 10 fWAR player, is paid like a 6 fWAR player: a forty percent discount. Trout sold those FA years for $30m that at $5m/WAR would be worth closer to $50m, and we know that $/WAR scales linearly in the FA market.
 
When Dave Cameron played this game before Trout's extension, he suggested Trout's FA years should be worth $50m, but ultimately priced them at $40m, basically because the numbers involved seemed too crazy. Trout ultimately signed them away at a steeper discount than Cameron anticipated.
 
So here's my proposed Bogaerts extension, on the model of the Trout extension. The deal is for 8 years (two pre-arb seasons, all three arb seasons and three FA years; or the 2015-2022 seasons) with a total value of $87 million (or sixty percent of $145). Let's say $85-90. No options of any kind. Bogaerts would hit FA after his age 29 season, already having earned the better part of 9 figures. Including the pre-arb years in the deal would lower the AAV to $11m, which would be a tremendous advantage for roster construction, although it comes at some additional risk. I think both the team and the player would be interested. 
 
Your thoughts?
 

Hank Scorpio

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Projecting the arb years is pretty tough, as it's really hard to say what kind of player he's going to be. I think he'll be great, but how great - I'm not sure.
 
He's 21 and already (so far, in a small sample) a .300 hitter with a .400ish OBP. OPS is around .860 - and he's starting to show some power. It's almost a given he'll hit for average and have a high OBP, but a lot of his value will come from his power, which is more of a mystery. Is he going to have a SLG closer to .450 or .550? OPS closer to .825 or .950?
 
If Bogaerts looks as if he could truly get anything close to $55M over his three arb years, then I'd do the 8/87 deal in a heartbeat. I'm a bit leery of those arb numbers you posted, however, probably because there's not a lot of precedent, especially recently for a young star going arbitration in year six.
 
Just spitballing here, but what about the Ellsbury comparision? 
 
In what would be his fifth year of arbitration, he settled on ~$8M after putting up MVP worthy numbers in 2011. I'm sure his stock was hurt a bit after missing most of 2010, but given the nature of the injury, probably not by much. Not saying that's what I think Xander is/will be worth - but it's less than half of the $18M you posted, and after a very good season.
 
Taking away $1M and two years, the deal could also be viewed as paying him 6/$86M - or $14.33M per year (because you're getting him for "free" for two years regardless of an extension). 
 
Barring a disaster, that's a steal, and I'd do it without hesitation.
 

nattysez

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nvalvo said:
Your thoughts?
 
Do we have any evidence that Scott Boras would ever agree to something like this?  I tried thinking of guys who sold their FA years, and none of them are Boras clients.  I'm sure Boras clients Bryce Harper, Strasburg and Weiters were offered a chance to do this, and none did.  Am I forgetting anyone?  I suspect the best the Sox could do is buy out X's arbitration years.
 

Adrian's Dome

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Hank Scorpio said:
Projecting the arb years is pretty tough, as it's really hard to say what kind of player he's going to be. I think he'll be great, but how great - I'm not sure.
 
He's 21 and already (so far, in a small sample) a .300 hitter with a .400ish OBP. OPS is around .860 - and he's starting to show some power. It's almost a given he'll hit for average and have a high OBP, but a lot of his value will come from his power, which is more of a mystery. Is he going to have a SLG closer to .450 or .550? OPS closer to .825 or .950?
 
If Bogaerts looks as if he could truly get anything close to $55M over his three arb years, then I'd do the 8/87 deal in a heartbeat. I'm a bit leery of those arb numbers you posted, however, probably because there's not a lot of precedent, especially recently for a young star going arbitration in year six.
 
Just spitballing here, but what about the Ellsbury comparision? 
 
In what would be his fifth year of arbitration, he settled on ~$8M after putting up MVP worthy numbers in 2011. I'm sure his stock was hurt a bit after missing most of 2010, but given the nature of the injury, probably not by much. Not saying that's what I think Xander is/will be worth - but it's less than half of the $18M you posted, and after a very good season.
 
Taking away $1M and two years, the deal could also be viewed as paying him 6/$86M - or $14.33M per year (because you're getting him for "free" for two years regardless of an extension). 
 
Barring a disaster, that's a steal, and I'd do it without hesitation.
 
If, as a SS, in today's baseball environment, he has a SLG near .450 while keeping his OBP in the .380-.400 range he's a top-tier player.
 
If it's closer to .550, he's a HoFer.
 
As excited as we all are, I think expectations should be tempered a bit. If he's consistently above an .800 OPS, color me stoked...The problem is, anything above that just gives Boras all the more leverage.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Won't Bogaerts be a Super Two and get four arbitration years?
 
I think the only way Boras would even consider signing away free agent years is if Bogaerts got an opt out, which would defeat the purpose.
 

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After last night's game, Bogaerts has taken the Red Sox lead in OBP and OPS and is second in hits (behind by 1), slugging (by .009), runs (by 2), and doubles (by 3).
Very impressive string of recent games!
 

Van Everyman

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Britton's theory is that he's not thinking about the Monster anymore:

For left-handers comfortable going the other way or righties with a pull stroke, Fenway’s Green Monster can be an enormous boon to production. But for a righty like Bogaerts, whose natural power stroke is to right-center, the Monster can be a tempting, taunting distraction.

How much did Bogaerts think about the wall earlier this season?

“A lot,” he said. “I always used to tell the hitting coaches that, because my hips would fly open. Not wanting to do it, but just knowing that the wall is there just plays with your mind. And your mind is very important in this game.”

Bogaerts’ struggles in the first half of May were tied to a pull-happy approach that caused him to miss pitches on the outer half of the plate — his self-described “happy zone.”

“Out and away, middle to away — I’m just missing too many pitches,” he said on May 16. “This is the big leagues. You can’t be missing so much.”
http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20140603-how-xander-bogaerts-started-to-excel-by-learning-to-forget-the-monster.ece
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Xander this morning is:
 
Tied with Dozier and Miggy for 8th in the AL in fWAR
Tied with Choo for 11th in the AL in wRC+
 
He's easily the best-hitting shortstop in the AL, and would be in both leagues if it weren't for Tulowitzki. Among third baseman, only Donaldson has hit better so far.
 

Seabass

has an efficient neck
SoSH Member
Oct 30, 2004
5,348
Brooklyn
nattysez said:
 
Do we have any evidence that Scott Boras would ever agree to something like this?  I tried thinking of guys who sold their FA years, and none of them are Boras clients.  I'm sure Boras clients Bryce Harper, Strasburg and Weiters were offered a chance to do this, and none did.  Am I forgetting anyone?  I suspect the best the Sox could do is buy out X's arbitration years.
 
Carlos Gonzalez signed for 7/80 when he had approximately two years of service time in January of 2011. Instead of hitting FA at 29, now Gonzalez will hit FA at 31. 
 
Boras will do whatever his clients want to do, but I'm sure he'd advise against X signing a big extension his rookie year. If you look at MLBTR's handy Extension Tracker, the deals handed out to players with less than two years of service time are all fairly similar in that the guaranteed dollars are generally around $25-45 million, with some crazy outliers for rookies (Sal Perez, Jon Singleton, the first Longoria contract). Teams are generally only signing rookies to long term extensions when the terms are extremely team friendly. Once you hit about two years of service time, you see players signing for much higher guaranteed dollars -- Trout, Posey, Hanley and Carlos Gonzalez are decent comps, with Trout, Gonzalez and Posey's deals being the most relevant comps.
 
Basically, I think if the Sox wanted to extend X now, they'd have to come way over other rookie extensions -- the 8/87 figure seems reasonable to me. If they wait two years and X has a couple of 4-6 win seasons under his belt? Then you're going to be looking at that Posey 8/159 contract as your new baseline. 
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
Savin Hillbilly said:
Xander this morning is:
 
Tied with Dozier and Miggy for 8th in the AL in fWAR
Tied with Choo for 11th in the AL in wRC+
 
He's easily the best-hitting shortstop in the AL, and would be in both leagues if it weren't for Tulowitzki. Among third baseman, only Donaldson has hit better so far.
 
I'd go a step further and say he's probably the best overall short stop in the American League so far this season.  I'm not a fan of using WAR (either kind) in partial season samples.  I'm not even a huge fan of it over a full season, given the limitations of the defensive component over samples of less than three years.  So rather than use that as a basis, I'll point to his AL shortstop leading wRC+ of 140, his AL shortstop leading wOBA of .380 and the fact that the only AL shortstop anywhere near him at the plate (Alexei Ramirez) is probably not so much better with the glove to make up the difference.
 
Ramirez has posted UZR's of 8.0 and 5.0 in the last two seasons and -4.5 so far this year.  So 13.0 and whatever he does this year will be a decent gauge of what his defensive talent level is at this point in his career.  Given that he appears to be trending downward (500 innings isn't enough to take a guess at where his UZR for 2014 will be with a lot of accuracy, but we can probably guess he won't be getting back up toward the 8.0 of 2012 or even the 10.0 of his 2011 season.  I'm guessing he's a touch above average with the glove these days and would peg Bogaerts at something around a tick below average.
 
If that holds up, I'd say we have the best overall shortstop in the AL right now.  Yes, he's moving to 3rd for the rest of the season, but Drew is on a prorated 1 year deal, so I expect Bogaerts to return to short in 2015 (as most here do).  He'll probably have some rust to shake off, but this two month stretch has been enormously promising.  Never mind if he improves with the bat, which isn't just possible, but is probable at his age.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,680
So here's my proposed Bogaerts extension, on the model of the Trout extension. The deal is for 8 years (two pre-arb seasons, all three arb seasons and three FA years; or the 2015-2022 seasons) with a total value of $87 million (or sixty percent of $145). Let's say $85-90.
 
 
Purely for the sake of optics, I dont see a contract for less than $100M doing it. That said, over 8 years, thats not really much of a difference.
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
After their game on April 15, XB had this slash line:  .260/.351/.300/.651.  Not bad for a rookie, despite the very limited power output.
 
However, since then, he's done this:
 
42 g, 157 ab, 24 r, 50 h, 14 2b, 1 3b, 5 hr, 16 rbi, .318/.409/.516/.925
 
His babip is a sick .405.  He's hitting rockets all over the place.  And the power is definitely starting to really show.  
 
Good grief, he is going to be one incredible baseball player.  He's already very good.
 

smastroyin

simpering whimperer
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2002
20,684
We should probably wait until we get through a couple more slumps before making these kinds of comparisons, but I can't help it, here is something silly.
 
wOBA in Age 21 seasons (using 6/30 cutoff) among post 1900 Hall of Fame and recent high production Shortstops:
 
Alex Rodriguez .443
Arky Vaughn .398
Joe Sewell .394 (83 PA)
Xander Bogaerts .380
Cal Ripken .347
Pee Wee Reese .346
Travis Jackson .333 (third full year in the league!)
Lou Boudreau .329
Rabbit Maranville .321
Joe Cronin .298
Derek Jeter .296 (51 PA)
Robin Yount .275
Troy Tulowitzki .269 (108 PA)
 
Luis Aparicio DNP, debut at 22
Luke Appling DNP, debut at 23
Dave Bancroft DNP, debut at 24
Ernie Bank DNP, debut at 22
Nomar Garciaparra DNP, debut at 23
Barry Larkin DNP, debut at 22
Hanley Ramirez DNP, debut at 22
Phil Rizzuto DNP, debut at 24
Ozzie Smith DNP, debut at 23
Miguel Tejada, DNP, debut at 23
Joe Tinker DNP, debut at 22
 
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