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World Baseball Classic 2017

Discussion in 'MLB Discussion' started by Merkle's Boner, Feb 10, 2017.

  1. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    They have turned inning-ending DPs the last three innings now.
     
  2. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    Diaz goes up and in to Balentien on 0-2 and benches briefly clear.
     
  3. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    Oh man, after the delay, then he paints the outside corner at 99 for strike 3. See ya.
     
  4. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    They really ought to have pitch-count limits rather than inning limits.
     
  5. Orel Miraculous

    Orel Miraculous Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    This is every bit as emotional and exciting as any game you're likely to see in October. People who bitch and moan about this tournament suck.
     
  6. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    It's gimmicky for a bunch of reasons, single-elimination baseball is bad enough without short pitch counts and automatic runners on base to start the 11th. Are you a fan of the coin flip wild card game? This isn't quite single elimination throughout but it's not far off.

    Anyway, I'm watching and enjoying, but it is really gimmicky.
     
  7. Orel Miraculous

    Orel Miraculous Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Professional sports--as an entire concept--is a gimmick.
     
  8. barbed wire Bob

    barbed wire Bob crippled by fear Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    That was a nice double play.
     
  9. Stanley Steamer

    Stanley Steamer lurker

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    808
    Count me in on the gimmick side. That was a great game, but doesn't seem right to be won in that manner.
    The question for me, is there ever a time of year when they could run a true world tournament, with players stretched out and all hands on deck?
    Maybe October-November.
     
  10. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    It has been suggested to cut to a final four in March and then replace the All-Star Game every four years with a series of games to decide the title.
     
  11. Stanley Steamer

    Stanley Steamer lurker

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    808
    I guess that might work. It appears only the NHL has to amend it's season to accommodate a proper international tournament, in North America at least. Soccer has to make a few concessions for summer tournaments.
     
  12. Koufax

    Koufax Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Losing the All-Star game in favor of baseball that is actually competitive sounds like a great idea.
     
  13. jungleboy

    jungleboy lurker

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    I've seen that idea floated a bit too. My problem with it is all the momentum that has been built up through the earlier phases of the tournament is lost (both in terms of team bonding/harmony/unity, and fan/media interest). And then players, fans etc have to suddenly reinvest themselves into it with just three games several months later after everyone has forgotten about what happened earlier.

    But then again, I like the tournament the way it is currently.
     
  14. InsideTheParker

    InsideTheParker Member SoSH Member

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    Wouldn't it be awfully inconvenient for a Japanese team to have to fly back and forth to the US in the middle of their baseball season? (They seem to have a break July 13-16 and the US all-star game is scheduled for July 11). Not happening. Also, I love the timing of the games right now, when I am sick of winter and haven't been biking or canoeing for many months. It's a great diversion, and I want it to keep going, not stop before the final game is won.
     
  15. Awesome Fossum

    Awesome Fossum Member SoSH Member

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    I fell asleep in the 8th, but that was SO entertaining. The WBC is the best.

    Highlight of the night for me -- top half of the first inning excluded -- was Vasgersian wondering why the Taiwanese professional league is named the Chinese Professional Baseball League.
     
  16. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Winner of the WBC should get to appoint the Sec-Gen of the United Nations

    Final Four get automatic seats on the Security Council.


    This time it REALLY counts.
     
  17. Don Bradman

    Don Bradman Member SoSH Member

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    He also referred to Roberto Clemente as the penultimate PR player.

    Great game though I wish it started earlier. Why can't the last round be in Texas so at least they are in CT?
     
  18. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Thank god you don't work for FIFA.
     
  19. Rasputin

    Rasputin Will outlive SeanBerry Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    None of those rules are gimmicks. They're there to address concerns of MLB clubs. They all suck, but they're all a result of having the thing during spring training.
     
  20. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    Yes, I'm aware and I'm not saying any of them should be changed, but the end result is very gimmicky baseball.
     
  21. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    If you watched last night's game - and I have every reason to think you did - and you saw both of those teams playing their asses off as I did, and how much they cared about this event, and you think that end result was "gimmicky", I don't know what to tell you. I suppose a lot of people still think the DH, now 44 years old, is "gimmicky baseball". I'd say just because they have to change pitchers out more often than they'd like and not play best-of-7 series it doesn't make it any less compelling to watch. Both teams had bases-loaded, 1 out last night - Netherlands hit into a DP, whereas PR hit a sac fly that resulted in a play at the plate for the walk-off win.

    I do think they could probably get rid of the automatic runners once it goes from pool play to single-elimination. But this whole thing is a transitionary experience where clubs go from having 100% control over a player's athletic activities (happy trails, Aaron Boone!) to something less than that. I'm not going to kill MLB for not having it entirely figured out in the early go-rounds.
     
  22. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Wish I did, I'd be retired on an island somewhere.
     
  23. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    but unable to go home again.
     
  24. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'd be fine with that.
     
  25. Rasputin

    Rasputin Will outlive SeanBerry Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    That's contradictory. Rules that are there for very good reason are, by definition, not gimmicks.
     
  26. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    For a very good reason to support the nature of the sporting contest, sure. But these rules are in place to support the business interests of clubs who aren't participating in the competition. They are "unnatural" limitations on the game.

    I don't think they amount to making the entire contest have the feeling of a gimmick, although the automatic runners in extras might be arguable. But the rules themselves are certainly not there "for very good reason" as a matter of structuring the sport itself.

    Rules initially seen as gimmicky are also quite sticky, and can become accepted and even treasured over time. When it was introduced, the 3-point line in NBA Basketball was viewed as gimmicky. Set tiebreaks in tennis. The DH. Hockey overtime (in the regular season). Soccer penalty kick shoot-outs. At least these were generally introduced to try and improve the competition or its entertainment value. But someone calling something gimmicky today will see their children calling it tradition decades from now.
     
  27. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    I mean, the end result was definitely gimmicky, even more than a shootout in hockey or soccer. The game itself was intense, but artificially intense to an extent, a bit like the coin flip wild card game. Baseball isn't meant to be determined in single elimination games, even seven game series aren't really ideal. It's a long haul sport, more than any other, but you guys know all this.

    I don't know why people have to pretend this is something it isn't, it's entertaining in its own way, but honestly I'd rather watch almost any regular season AL game over these games (and I have watched a lot of it, because that is just how bored I am with the NBA right now). You don't agree, that's fine, enjoy.
     
  28. Orel Miraculous

    Orel Miraculous Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    You're begging the question with the bolded. Baseball at the professional level in America has been designed to be a long haul sport, but there is nothing inherent in the game itself that makes it so, and in fact, it is not a long haul game in many other settings.

    For example, for decades the Cubans have viewed short Olympic and World Cup tournaments as the pinnacle of the sport, and they altered their style of play accordingly. In one game in the 2006 WBC they had a reliever warming up before the first pitch of the game was even thrown. An MLB team would never do this, or even think to do this, but the Cubans valued each out of a single game differently than an American baseball team would, because they valued short tournaments differently than An American baseball team would. Their choice to play baseball in this manner was not inherently wrong, it was simply different than the way we're used to seeing it played.

    There are countless examples of baseball competitions that are not long haul events: the Colllege World Series, Koshien, the Caribbean Series, the MLB playoffs, and literally every single amateur baseball competition in North America. The fact that these competitions are played with different formats that create different incentives and strategic choices does not make them illegitimate, it makes them different. It's perfectly acceptable to say that you don't like the differences, but it's another thing altogether to say that because it's not your preferred format, then the entire exercise is inherently less valuable.
     
  29. jon abbey

    jon abbey Shanghai Warrior Dope SoSH Member

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    OK, that's a fair point, but most of those are the culmination of a season where the players have physically and mentally prepared themselves to peak at the end. When you couple the unnaturalness of intense baseball at this point in the yearly cycle for most of these guys with the other factors I mentioned earlier, it's hard for me to take too seriously. Again, just my perspective.
     
  30. johnmd20

    johnmd20 voice of soccer Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    It's a tournament. Every tournament is a gimmick. March Madness is a gimmick. The CFB playoffs is a gimmick. The fact that half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs is a gimmick. The NFL playoffs, a single elimination tournament, is a gimmick. The World Cup is a gimmick. The Olympics are a complete gimmick.

    As someone noted above, sports are a gimmick. The WBC is pretty damn cool for what it is trying to do.
     
  31. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Hey now, the Romans were ahead of their times. Gladiatorial combat kept it real-er. Too bad modern audiences don't have the stomach for it.

    Is it 9pm yet? USA-Japan can't get here fast enough.
     
  32. canderson

    canderson Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Any predictions for tonight? I haven't had a chance to watch any of Japan's games but imagine they're going to be very tough to beat.
     
  33. Orel Miraculous

    Orel Miraculous Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    This is actually probably the weakest team Samurai Japan has ever fielded in the WBC. In each of the past three tourneys they've been stocked with genuine aces (Dice-K, Darvish, Tanaka, etc.) but Shohei Otani, who is easiily Japan's best pitcher right now (in addition to being the the most exciting freaking player on the planet by virtue of being a two-way player who also hits 20+ homers), is out with an injury. Sugano is an excellent pitcher in his own right, but he's just not at Otani's level.

    Having said that, they are (as usual) the most prepared team in the field, having been training for this since January. These guys are already in peak form.
     
  34. barbed wire Bob

    barbed wire Bob crippled by fear Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Not much of a crowd.
     
  35. InsideTheParker

    InsideTheParker Member SoSH Member

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    It's raining in L.A. That's not right.
     
  36. barbed wire Bob

    barbed wire Bob crippled by fear Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    It never rains in California
    But girls don't they warn ya
    It pours, man, it pours
     
  37. Laser Show

    Laser Show Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Wish the crowd was bigger. Wonder how much the rain is keeping people away.
     
  38. flymrfreakjar

    flymrfreakjar Member SoSH Member

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    Good lord the MLB.tv stream is terrible.
     
  39. Rasputin

    Rasputin Will outlive SeanBerry Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I would disagree. I think the fact that we all expect the best teams to lose more than a third of their games--even to some of the worst teams--is in fact, something inherent in the game itself that makes it a long haul game.

    Do we really think the Netherlands is that much better than Korea?
     
  40. luckysox

    luckysox Eeyore Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    I think a lot. Californians don't prefer to sit in rain.
     
  41. Laser Show

    Laser Show Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    I'm guessing the crowd last night was better? I didn't get to watch
     
  42. Don Bradman

    Don Bradman Member SoSH Member

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    I've been wondering about this. Does Japan think this is their best team or are their US ML players hampered from participating the same way that the USA players are? To put it another way, are Tanaka, Ichiro, Koji, Maeda, and other Japanese ML players not there because they themselves or their ML team choose that they not be or are they not good enough compared to those are are there?
     
  43. Orel Miraculous

    Orel Miraculous Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    We expect the best teams to lose a third of their games in the long haul system we have designed for professional baseball in America. But here's a thought experiment: if, instead of playing everyday for 6 months, MLB teams played only on Sundays, using only one starting pitcher all season long, and playing balls to the wall for every single out, what types of winning percentages would we see? Would the Clayton Kershaw led Dodgers still win only 56% of their games? Would the Christian Friedrich (?) led Padres still manage to win as much as 42% of their games? That was my point with the 2006 Cuban anecdote above--they created a completely different style of play because they focused on winning short tournaments instead of winning 100 games.

    A lot of people have a knee jerk antipathy towards the WBC simply because it's baseball being played in a different way than we're used to, but the way we're used to playing the game isn't the only way it can be done.
     
  44. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Lots of Puerto Rico chants last night.

    Kinsler screwed up and tagged the wrong leg on that SB. The ball beat the runner to the bag. If he tagged the bent leg, the runner was out.
     
  45. canderson

    canderson Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    It's weird watching a game at a Dodger Stadium being played in the rain.
     
  46. Orel Miraculous

    Orel Miraculous Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    I'll defer to Tokyo Sox, but I think Darvish, Tanaka, Koji, and Maeda are all certainly still deserving of being on this team. Ichiro might not be anymore, sadly.
     
  47. Oppo

    Oppo Member SoSH Member

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    Can someone explain why McCutchen is getting so much playing time? Would much rather see Stanton RF and Goldy DH than McCutchen RF and Stanton DH.
     
  48. flymrfreakjar

    flymrfreakjar Member SoSH Member

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    Well he has knocked in the only run tonight...
     
  49. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    Stanton might have played that HR ball better, might have caught it. Cutch took a torturous route to the ball if you ever saw one.
     
  50. barbed wire Bob

    barbed wire Bob crippled by fear Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Never expected Japan to tie the game on a home run.
     

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