That's 4, not 3. And Tatum is already better than Embiid and Simmons.I don't think it's realistic to think Tatum will be better than Giannis, Embiid, Durant, and Simmons. He may be better than one or two of them, but not all three.
That's 4, not 3. And Tatum is already better than Embiid and Simmons.I don't think it's realistic to think Tatum will be better than Giannis, Embiid, Durant, and Simmons. He may be better than one or two of them, but not all three.
Can we slow down on the BAM train...it's not hard to look good when you play a team with no one to guard you.Giannis and Kevin Durant may have something to say about that. Not to mention Bam - who knows how good he'll be by then.
Year 3 is often The Year for young players, but especially important for a big who came in on the raw side. Glad he is leaving the bubble healthy to be able to get to work and come back better.I am pretty bearish on Timelord since his defensive instincts seem very bad, but centers occasionally take a while to pick that stuff up. Is he able to find the minutes to figure his shit out though?
I thought it was a huge mistake not to give up the two picks for Bertans. His shooting swings this series.Bench sniper, bench interior enforcer.
DA napping the trade deadline yet again really cost them.
What else?
Yeah, basically this. I was reviewing words that begin with “ch”’with my son tonight and the Celtics were giving me ideas...To learn to finish.
For a team with this much talent and this many guys who can go to the rim, they sucked at the end of games.
Absolutely.I thought it was a huge mistake not to give up the two picks for Bertans. His shooting swings this series.
That’s more about ceiling than anything. They were just on the floor for 6 games and Bam made the saving block in one game and took over the 4th quarter tonight while being excellent in all but one game. Tatum is obviously more talented but he came out flat a lot and wasn’t able to takeover. I’d bet on Tatum over him long term myself but it’s not a crime to think that may be a question long term imoCan we slow down on the BAM train...it's not hard to look good when you play a team with no one to guard you.
No one is trading Tatum for Bam straight up now or in the next 5 years.
Tatum just put up one of the best series and post seasons by someone his age or younger in NBA history and you are saying he came out flat?That’s more about ceiling than anything. They were just on the floor for 6 games and Bam made the saving block in one game and took over the 4th quarter tonight while being excellent in all but one game. Tatum is obviously more talented but he came out flat a lot and wasn’t able to takeover. I’d bet on Tatum over him long term myself but it’s not a crime to think that may be a question long term imo
There was a lot of crappy play after that as well, but those two quick fouls in the 4th I felt like were the turning point in the game. The Celtics starting panicking and jacking 3s and it as all over. There's lots of good stuff to say about Theis, and I think he was key to winning game 5, but his inability to not foul is a real Achilles heel.I love DT but get me a better center, then they become very hard to beat.
I feel confident he only did that cause the Wizards sucked so much, it was pointless to go. Beal Felt the same way.Didn’t Bertans opt out? Imagine giving up picks and then not having him in Orlando.
He was shown up by the coach of the year whose team he defeated? What were the awful gaffes?A Killer Instinct would help. They can't close out quarters or put teams away as often as they need to. Hopefully this is something they can grow into but it's a clear missing element. Brad Stevens is trending on twitter and it's not good. I'm not going to game thread this but he was shown up by the last two coaches and had some awful gaffes. He's got to get better in big spots, too.
It is very surreal to be writing posts arguing against Tatum as I really do think he’s a superstar in the making but yes, he had a scoreless half in this series and didn’t score in 3 first quarters if my memory is right?Tatum just put up one of the best series and post seasons by someone his age or younger in NBA history and you are saying he came out flat?
I feel like that when he is in the game, the other teams really alter their approach with regards to driving to the basket. He really is an elite shot blocker and I think he could learn most of the other stuff.I'm hopeful too and I do think he will improve, but I don't see TL ever developing a good enough jump shot or perimeter quickness necessary to be a legit, consistent big man in today's NBA.
Grant's wingspan is a 2-3 inches shorter, though. I'd like to see Grant be able to do something else offensively besides 3's, though. I would think there should be some opportunities where he could use his strength to muscle guys in the paint or at least start to muscle them and create opportunities for others.I'm actually more optimistic about the other Williams (Grant) - his main issue is height but it's worth pointing out he's the same height as Draymond Green and I could absolutely see Grant developing into a Draymond-esque player if he keeps improving.
I think most of the Brad Stevens criticism is nonsense and is mostly just a result of the fact that Celtics fans get really intense watching games and are pissed Brad doesn't show that same intensity. They want someone lie Nick Nurse who is jumping around and yelling all the time, which is potentially more cathartic, but doesn't really have much to do with how good a coach he is or not.A Killer Instinct would help. They can't close out quarters or put teams away as often as they need to. Hopefully this is something they can grow into but it's a clear missing element. Brad Stevens is trending on twitter and it's not good. I'm not going to game thread this but he was shown up by the last two coaches and had some awful gaffes. He's got to get better in big spots, too.
No FG in the first quarters of games 4-6. That’s the very definition of coming out flat. At least tonight he was passing the ball really well, but yeah he did not set the tone early the last few games. Well, maybe he did, but it wasn’t the tone we were looking for.It is very surreal to be writing posts arguing against Tatum as I really do think he’s a superstar in the making but yes, he had a scoreless half in this series and didn’t score in 3 first quarters if my memory is right?
We need to appreciate what he is and I assure you that I do. But I think we also have to appreciate that he’s not there yet and probably won’t be for a few more years if he continues to focus on his game and improve
22 (March 98)Tatum's stat lines each game:
G1: 30 points, 14 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 blocks, 3 steals
G2: 21 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal
G3: 25 points, 14 rebounds, 8 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals
G4: 28 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 1 steal
G5: 31 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists, 0 blocks, 1 steal
G6: 24 points, 7 rebounds, 11 assists, 1 block, 2 steals
AVG: 26.5 points, 9.8 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1.2 blocks, 1.3 steals
23 years old. Eastern conference finals, not some random 6-game stretch in December against random NBA teams.
He's 22Tatum's stat lines each game:
G1: 30 points, 14 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 blocks, 3 steals
G2: 21 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal
G3: 25 points, 14 rebounds, 8 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals
G4: 28 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 1 steal
G5: 31 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists, 0 blocks, 1 steal
G6: 24 points, 7 rebounds, 11 assists, 1 block, 2 steals
AVG: 26.5 points, 9.8 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1.2 blocks, 1.3 steals
23 years old. Eastern conference finals, not some random 6-game stretch in December against random NBA teams.
Right. He’s amazing but whole quarters off can’t happen.No FG in the first quarters of games 4-6. That’s the very definition of coming out flat. At least tonight he was passing the ball really well, but yeah he did not set the tone early the last few games. Well, maybe he did, but it wasn’t the tone we were looking for.
It's a long list but Hayward's minute load tonight was unforgivable.What were the awful gaffes?
I agree with this.All year I thought the thing was a bigger, more athletic center who could be trusted not to foul and be out of position defensively. I think the question here is, will an upgrade be available or is the best strategy to coach up Time Lord. I’d lean towards trade but couldn’t tell you who.
In the playoffs I think a different guy showed weaknesses we haven’t seen before: Kemba. He’s a great guy and very important to their culture but he was exposed by playoff defenses. He’s paid too much and he’s too weak defensively to be theIFR endive player we saw the last 13 games. Not enough offensive initiation for others and not able to create enough high quality shots for himself. Throw in his salary and it’s worse. I don’t think Ainge makes a move here but in a vacuum he’s not the best use of $30M/year.
They easiest thing to upgrade and the only thing they probably will upgrade is the bench. Gotta get better there and shouldnt be hard.
Other than Tatum coming out of the box better, you couldn’t ask much more of the Jays in this series. They’re so good and it’s amazing that they’re as good as they are at 22 and 23. It’s such a bummer that they’re 0-2 in ECF. It’s obvious that this team needs a bench sniper and a better center moving forward. Regardless, they were still there this year with good Kemba and good Hayward. Through injuries and/or whatever other reasons they got neither. It’s a shame.Jaylen Brown's stat lines:
G1: 17 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists
G2: 21 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists
G3: 26 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists
G4: 21 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists
G5: 28 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists
G6: 26 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists
AVG: 23.2 points, 7.2 rebounds, 2.8 assists on 55% shooting
He also is just 23 years old at the moment.
It is much easier to throw lobs to guys that can go up to 12 feet to get them.The ability to throw a lob pass. How many times did Miami get free points from Bam off of lobs? Jaylen and Time Lord should be catching lobs regularly.
I think they really need to reassess their coaching staff. Their offense is having the same problems it has for years. They need someone that's going to push Brad to try different things.
Is that Boogie Cousins music???It is much easier to throw lobs to guys that can go up to 12 feet to get them.
This team needs two vets
I say vets because these will be bench guys with deficiencies, but if they know what they are doing Brad can get them in the D gameplan. So I iexpect the forward will be a nonshooter since guys that can do what they need and make 3s, are too expensive
1. one that can shoot,
they need a legit 3pt shooter on the bench. Not a three and D guy like Crowder, but a knockdown guy that will make 5 in quarter once in a while, a guy the other team can't leave. Right now they are waiting for Marcus to get hot (shudder) to have that extra 3 point boost. This guy would be better to be bigger guard who maybe isn't great off the dribble, but a good catch and shoot guy, who is not so small they post him like Kemba and Wannamaker. Again if he was also good off the dribble they won't be able to afford him. They are working too hard for their points right now, but they don't need another guy dribbling around.
2. one that can play above the rim at both ends.
they need an athletic vet big. Probably can't afford a guy that can make threes, but they need a guy that blocks and changes shots and dunks his catches in traffic. Thies is not that guy. I say vet because this is a team built on D and when they get stops they run. A smart D guy that can handle a gameplan, and be garbage guy on o. At the price they can afford this guy will miss FTs, maybe not be a great passer but does his job.
If one of them played angry that would be good for this mix.
Your guy that can shoot would ideally be a starter so they could bring Marcus Smart off the bench. I’m all for exploring his trade value that could bring one of the two guys you want as well.It is much easier to throw lobs to guys that can go up to 12 feet to get them.
This team needs two vets
I say vets because these will be bench guys with deficiencies, but if they know what they are doing Brad can get them in the D gameplan. So I iexpect the forward will be a nonshooter since guys that can do what they need and make 3s, are too expensive
1. one that can shoot,
they need a legit 3pt shooter on the bench. Not a three and D guy like Crowder, but a knockdown guy that will make 5 in quarter once in a while, a guy the other team can't leave. Right now they are waiting for Marcus to get hot (shudder) to have that extra 3 point boost. This guy would be better to be bigger guard who maybe isn't great off the dribble, but a good catch and shoot guy, who is not so small they post him like Kemba and Wannamaker. Again if he was also good off the dribble they won't be able to afford him. They are working too hard for their points right now, but they don't need another guy dribbling around.
2. one that can play above the rim at both ends.
they need an athletic vet big. Probably can't afford a guy that can make threes, but they need a guy that blocks and changes shots and dunks his catches in traffic. Thies is not that guy. I say vet because this is a team built on D and when they get stops they run. A smart D guy that can handle a gameplan, and be garbage guy on o. At the price they can afford this guy will miss FTs, maybe not be a great passer but does his job.
If one of them played angry that would be good for this mix.
Best thing that happened to them was Theis fouling out. Miami's run started when Theis came back in for GW. Bam just attacked Theis over and over to get that run going. GW came back in, but by then the momentum had swung and Herro took over, and the Celtics started jacking 3's. Sorry, off topic rant.There was a lot of crappy play after that as well, but those two quick fouls in the 4th I felt like were the turning point in the game. The Celtics starting panicking and jacking 3s and it as all over. There's lots of good stuff to say about Theis, and I think he was key to winning game 5, but his inability to not foul is a real Achilles heel.
Except for a few reactionary posts in the game thread I don’t think anyone is actually calling for Stevens to be fired. I think people are just identifying areas of improvement for him, no different than there are areas where Tatum, Jaylen, Smart or whoever can improve.Also, if people are going to advocate for a new coach, show your work and why you know more about Stevens mismanagement of the clock, the refs, etc. Wyc, Ainge, Zarren et al clearly don't agree by virtue of Stevens extension so what specifically are they missing in terms of underperformance. And since I am asking the question, I will also ask for data rather than anecdotes. And also, whom do you bring in?
I agree that the game was lost when Theis came back in, but I think that when he fouled out it was already (at least nearly) over.Best thing that happened to them was Theis fouling out. Miami's run started when Theis came back in for GW. Bam just attacked Theis over and over to get that run going. GW came back in, but by then the momentum had swung and Herro took over, and the Celtics started jacking 3's. Sorry, off topic rant.
He’s already better than Simmons and he’s likely to be better than Durant v. 2021.I don't think it's realistic to think Tatum will be better than Giannis, Embiid, Durant, and Simmons. He may be better than one or two of them, but not all three.
And if Philly hires D’Antoni Embiid is gone.He’s already better than Simmons and he’s likely to be better than Durant v. 2021.
If Langford can provide some of the defense Smart’s absence would create, would that change things for you?One thing that people need to keep in mind in this thread is that it's really easy to say "we need a better big man" or "we need someone who can shoot better off the bench" but much harder to actually find those players without sacrificing elsewhere. People need to show their work and explain how we can get a good bench shooter or quality big man given the Celtics' current cap situation.
Roster construction in the NBA is really hard, particularly with a capped out team like the Celtics. It's unfortunate that this year's draft is mostly meh because that is one of the only places the Celtics could theoretically materially improve their team. The other is the trade market, but it would have to be a blockbuster trade to really change things - even something like the Miles Turner-for-Smart trade someone proposed in a different thread might not make a real difference because while it would address some issues, it would open up others (it would require them to find a very good defensive guard to replace Smart, for starters).
And they really can't do anything in the free agent market this year given their cap situation, except potentially add a veteran minimum contract or two.
I was thinking about Buddy Hield, and Smart, Romeo & filler probably gets it done. But he made a huge stink about coming off the bench in Sacramento.Someone like a Buddy Hield Lite to come off the bench.
D’Antoni and Embiid seem enamored of the match right now, it’s actually Simmons that will be going.And if Philly hires D’Antoni Embiid is gone.
There are posts in this very thread advocating for a new coach. Its fair game for discussion and its entirely possible that the team can do better than Stevens - its also fair to ask how and with whom.Except for a few reactionary posts in the game thread I don’t think anyone is actually calling for Stevens to be fired. I think people are just identifying areas of improvement for him, no different than there are areas where Tatum, Jaylen, Smart or whoever can improve.
I also don’t necessarily think Stevens’ extension is a sign that Danny et al. think Stevens is perfect in his postseason coaching - they may just think the positives (his ability to coach up young players, etc.) more than make up for it, whic is a position most people here would agree with. Or maybe they truly do have no issues with his in-game postseason coaching but there’s no way to really know that.
Re: shootersOne thing that people need to keep in mind in this thread is that it's really easy to say "we need a better big man" or "we need someone who can shoot better off the bench" but much harder to actually find those players without sacrificing elsewhere. People need to show their work and explain how we can get a good bench shooter or quality big man given the Celtics' current cap situation.
Roster construction in the NBA is really hard, particularly with a capped out team like the Celtics. It's unfortunate that this year's draft is mostly meh because that is one of the only places the Celtics could theoretically materially improve their team. The other is the trade market, but it would have to be a blockbuster trade to really change things - even something like the Miles Turner-for-Smart trade someone proposed in a different thread might not make a real difference because while it would address some issues, it would open up others (it would require them to find a very good defensive guard to replace Smart, for starters).
And they really can't do anything in the free agent market this year given their cap situation, except potentially add a veteran minimum contract or two.