What is the Minimum Level of Success You will be Satisfied with from the 2024 Red Sox?

[CR67dream]

So what say you, SoSH?

Some great debate about what the heck is actually going on, but I think it's time to take the temperature on our bottom line expectations.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

I voted for the "develop the kids" option.

But I'm going to say the same thing (now) that I've been alluding to the past several years, and a lot of the "success" of the season for me depends on what the trade deadline looks like.

If Breslow truly thinks they're in it (not 5 games out of the playoff picture because that describes most teams at that point), make some additions. If they don't make additions, and if they aren't actually in the top 6 in the league at the end of July, there should be nobody left on an expiring contract if they aren't certain to be given a qualifying offer.

Just learn from mistakes and don't make the mistakes of 2022 and 2023 all over again. I'd have a much different view of the "success" of the 2022 and 23 team if Wacha, Martinez, Strahm, Duvall, Turner, Paxton and whoever I'm forgetting had been traded.

 

[chrisfont9]

I'm probably a little of both 3 and 4. If they want to develop the kids, that's not a bad way to go, but I wouldn't say they are going nowhere as a result. They can compete now too. [I guess the title does say "minimum" though...]

 

[TomRicardo]

I would just be happy with some direction right now. They are awful and either 1) haven't had a real strategy over the last four years or 2) had such a dumb strategy they have ended up where they are.

Breslow has made some good moves but there is clearly a disconnect with ownership and reality.

 

[CR67dream]

I'm probably a little of both 3 and 4. If they want to develop the kids, that's not a bad way to go, but I wouldn't say they are going nowhere as a result. They can compete now too. [I guess the title does say "minimum" though...]

Thanks for the nuance, the choices aren't meant to cover everything. I love seeing the reasoning.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I went option 3. I expect more roster improvements before camp and opening day. Another gone by august season is unacceptable to me, and will increase my level of disinterest, which I really felt for the first time this past season. Don't need a title this year, and don't really even need playoffs. I do need relevance, competitiveness, and entertainment value.

 

[Cassvt2023]

I voted like majority have so far, which is finish out of basement, compete for playoffs and most importantly, play entertaining baseball. I'm excited to see a 2nd full season of Casas and Bello. I think both are candidates for an extension. I want to see what a healthy Story will look like, and his SS D will only help our pitchers after last years gruesome display there. I think the excitement that Duran and Rafaela (if he's up) bring on the bases now that speed is once again a bigger part of the game is something i'm looking forward to. I'm curious if they can get Giolito back to his Cy Young votes form, and I'm hopeful that Grissom can lock down 2B. I hope O'Neil can stay healthy and produce, and Yoshida takes another step and can sustain it the whole season. I'm optimistic Bloom won the Vazquez trade with Abreu alone.

 

[Manramsclan]

I voted option 3 but develop the kids is the clearest path to this team being better in the near term. If two out of three of Whitlock, Houck and Crawford can be reliable mid-rotation starters this team will make hay in 2025. Let's find out if they are because if they aren't it's time to put them in bullpen roles for good and spend some money on starting pitching.

 

[opes]

Unless they make some trades, or sign a quality starting pitcher, I cant see them making the playoffs. IMO, this team has not improved from last year on paper. O'neill is not getting us anywhere, and I actually laughed when I heard about it. Cooper Criswell is a flyer. Giolito is our biggest signing, who is a decent 4.00 inning eater who hasn't exactly been on fire the last couple years. Grissom was a nice trade. I'm excited to see what he can do this next year.
Other than that, I'm only interested in following how the young guys progress this year. This isn't the 2018 Red Sox, not even close by a mile.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

I voted option 3. Be interesting and competitive through August when football starts. But really, and this is true I think for all teams in all sports, all that's really needed is forward momentum; the sense that meaningful progress is being made. So if the teams not in contention, but the player development is really encouraging, that can work too.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Went with the majority option here in the middle. They should be able to compete for a backend WC spot - but I'd be OK with going nowhere if we get some real promise on the kids, too.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

I picked three, but a combination of three and four work for me. Finish out of the basement, be entertaining, and develop the kids. In this division I seriously doubt they will compete for a playoff spot even adding a good starter to the rotation.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I fall somewhere between 3 and 4. I'd like to see them improve the defense, reduce the mental mistakes, develop the kids and by year's end show that they are on the upswing ... but unless everything breaks right, I doubt they're in playoff contention this season

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

I went with #4, because only a real asshole would choose #5 ("I wash my hands of these losers and don't want any happiness or hope"). But I'm a 4.25... because I don't have any expectation whatsoever this team could be competitive in September, barring some out-of-nowhere trades.

But why wouldn't you root for a better future? Excited about Grissom, really hopeful for Duran, ready to be delighted by Cedanne and/or Abreu, and would be delighted if Anthony, Mayer and Teel all make it comfortably to AAA this season and produce some there.

 

[geoflin]

I voted for 3 but rather than finish out of the basement and compete for a playoff spot I want to see them show some improvement and be headed in the right direction while playing entertaining baseball.

 

[LogansDad]

#3 for me. I think I was one of the few who really enjoyed last season's team before whatever the hell happened in September. I just love watching baseball, and love watching Red Sox baseball specifically. I am not a passionate about the "winning" as I used to be, though, so that might be why I seem pollyannish at times around here. I really just want them to play well enough for us to all be able to discuss baseball again, without all the stress and anxiety.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I want to see a real plan, not sure how that fits into the options, but if the team is bad, and it continues to look like the ownership isn't particularly interested in a good team except on some very narrow profitability terms.... yeah I'll probably not watch much. Won't be some moral stance/boycott, just... watching a team spin it's wheels isn't that fun.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I picked 3, but 1 game ahead of the MFY works for me.

I think option 3 shows progress from the last two lost years, and I'm hoping Breslow has a plan that maybe will take more than 1 year to achieve. Answering next year's poll now, if they aren't a playoff team in 2025 I'll be pretty pissed.

 

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

I’m also in the “option three fits me best with a little nuance” crowd. If they finish at 0.500 or better I’ll be happy. I just don’t want them to yet again be a losing team.

 

[steeplechase3k]

I picked 3 mostly for the "play entertaining baseball" part. I want to enjoy the time I spend watching the games, and not spend the second half of the season regretting spending money on MLBtv. Entertaining is also winning more games than they lose, so that will keep them out of the basement. If they can develop the kids along the way, that's a bonus.

 

[54thMA]

I voted for #5; if they don't care anymore about winning, then I'm out.

That knife cuts both ways.

 

[Seels]

4 but leaning towards 5. I stopped watching games. They can win me back, but it won't be until I trust that the team takes itself seriously again. I stil; follow the course of the team, but can't let the team be more than background noise if they're not going to put effort in.

 

[Daniel_Son]

I don't think they're going nowhere if the kids develop. That's a damn good lineup if Abreu, Rafaela, Duran, and Casas continue to grow. Same with Houck, Bello, and Crawford on the SP front.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

It's January 16, it's been snowing all day and realistically, the best that I see my favorite baseball team doing is fourth place in the American League East. That's such a depressing sentence to write.

 

[soxin6]

I voted for 3, but that doesn't seem realistic with how management is looking at the pitching situation. It doesn't seem that ownership cares about winning as long as the value of their portfolio goes up.

 

[j-man]

i just want boston to matter again other than 2018 and 20 or 21 4 of the last 6 years have been hard to watch

 

[103mph Screwball]

I originally voted 2, then changed to 3. I want to see some development of young talent. Moreso, I want to see some semblance of a plan. Develop young talent, and get turned back into a perennial contender. They're the Boston Red Sox, not the Twins. As long as they continue to charge the highest gameday experience in the league, they'd better start doing some winning, or at least showing a real plan of how they intend to do so.

 

[Dewey'sCannon]

I voted #3, but I'm at 3.33. Pick up one more SP and I think they can compete this year while playing the kids.

 

[astrozombie]

4 but leaning towards 5. I stopped watching games. They can win me back, but it won't be until I trust that the team takes itself seriously again. I stil; follow the course of the team, but can't let the team be more than background noise if they're not going to put effort in.

This is exactly where I am.

 

[BigSoxFan]

They need to develop the kids AND field a competitive team that has the ability to compete for a WC spot. If they ultimately fall short, I won’t cry about it but having several weeks of bland, noncompetitive baseball would be unacceptable, especially when factoring in the last 5 years or so.

 

[NickEsasky]

I guess I am somewhere on the spectrum between 3 and 5. If the team truly doesn't care about competing next year I am not going to waste my time watching or buying tickets. Plus I have concerns this will be a one-year thing. It puts so many eggs in the prospect and development basket which isn't a high-success rate strategy (https://community.fangraphs.com/your-teams-prospects-are-probably-not-going-to-work-out/). But I still love the Red Sox so I will check the standings, follow IG stories, and still read and post here.

 

[Rovin Romine]

Option 3. I think they're in better shape than they look. Winckowski could be a big surprise as a starter.

 

[Coachster]

I voted 4. I just want to watch some terrific athletes compete. That's not happening this year, so yeah.

Remember how you'd stop and watch Ortiz or Manny hit, just because they were so good at it? Watching Pedro pitch was a pleasure, right?

Other than watching Duran go from 1st to third (and remember, he has to get to 1st for this to happen) what is going to be must-watch baseball next year? Casas, maybe? Story defensively? Maybe.

They're just not very interesting as constructed. I'd like to be wrong but I'm not.

 

[CR67dream]

I voted 4. I just want to watch some terrific athletes compete. That's not happening this year, so yeah.

Remember how you'd stop and watch Ortiz or Manny hit, just because they were so good at it? Watching Pedro pitch was a pleasure, right?

Other than watching Duran go from 1st to third (and remember, he has to get to 1st for this to happen) what is going to be much-watch baseball next year? Casas, maybe? Story defensively? Maybe.

They're just not very interesting as constructed. I'd like to be wrong but I'm not.

I respect your view, but Devers is still here. And they paid him. I get your point though, I miss the collective greatness too.

 

[Coachster]

I respect your view, but Devers is still here. And they paid him. I get your point though, I miss the collective greatness too.

You know what ruined Devers for me? The pitch clock. He doesn't have time to step out, make a face, then take a deep breath and let it out slowly with his eyes closed. He's too professional now. Doesn't need to relax.

 

[GlucoDoc]

I voted three but like many, it is between 3 & 4. Mostly, don't be boring, and if that is competing, even a little, for something, and/or watching kids develop, either is fine with me.

 

[Toe Nash]

I voted option 3. Be interesting and competitive through August when football starts. But really, and this is true I think for all teams in all sports, all that's really needed is forward momentum; the sense that meaningful progress is being made. So if the teams not in contention, but the player development is really encouraging, that can work too.

This is where I am at. If all you want to see is competitive baseball you can probably get there more often than not with a bunch of FA veteran signings. But we know that isn't going to lead to sustained long-term success and is unlikely to lead you on a deep playoff run. So it's really about developing the kids for this year and hopefully that leads to a respectable season.

It's understandable but a little odd to see people on this board saying they want to make the playoffs or else, when that kind of thinking has led the team to unadvisable moves in the past. Even if you blow through the luxury tax you need pre-arb players to produce for you.

 

[astrozombie]

I voted three but like many, it is between 3 & 4. Mostly, don't be boring, and if that is competing, even a little, for something, and/or watching kids develop, either is fine with me.

I know it's pedantic, but option #3 including "entertaining" threw me off. If they finish dead last in the AL and every game is 8-9 or 11-12 (using "high-scoring" as a measure of "entertaining") I am not sure how happy people would be picking option 3. Conversely, if they are competing and every game is boring AF, I am sure some people would be happy with that.

 

[Sausage in Section 17]

It's January 16, it's been snowing all day and realistically, the best that I see my favorite baseball team doing is fourth place in the American League East. That's such a depressing sentence to write.

Not as depressing as when this was true for most of the 90's.

I'm solidly on 3, and I don't even need anything other than "play entertaining baseball". 4 championships have cured me from really worrying about whether the Sox win. It's a weird feeling...not really caring either way, but it's nice and easier on my psyche than my younger fan life. However, I still get pissed when they play poorly. I don't want to see so many guys thrown out on the bases, don't want to come close to leading the league in errors, and am sick of seeing some guys put up crappy ABs in key spots. I yearn for the days of Theo, when the Sox usually "controlled the strike zone".

Just play smart, clean baseball. If you can, you also usually have a chance to win.

 

[simplicio]

You know what ruined Devers for me? The pitch clock. He doesn't have time to step out, make a face, then take a deep breath and let it out slowly with his eyes closed. He's too professional now. Doesn't need to relax.

As long as they don't institute a "chilling on the ground after a dive" clock, he'll be okay.

 

[pinkhatfan]

At the end of the day, I want to watch entertaining baseball and root for a team that is trying to win and has some personality. I voted 3, because that's where I think I'd actually be satisfied with their performance. I think 4 is more likely, and I will probably talk myself into being satisfied with that as long as the kids are actually developing.

If they would just make fewer stupid errors and baserunning mistakes, that would be a really great start.

 

[gammoseditor]

More than wins and losses I want to believe a year from now they know what they are doing. If Giolito has a repeat of last year that would be a huge warning sign. The opt out they gave him is a bet there is very little chance he is that guy. I want to see strong evidence Vaughn Grissom is our future at second base. I’d like to see a strategy at the trade deadline that makes sense. I would like to see at least a couple pitchers have unexpectedly good years because that’s supposed to be a strength of Bailey and Breslow.

 

[KillerBs]

We have finished last in 6 of the last 12 seasons, after not being last for 80 years. So I will start there -- don't be last. We are not like the Tigers or Cleveland, the Senator-Twins or the Oriole Browns. Our expectations are higher than that and have been since 67.

 

[gryoung]

- Play good baseball (defense and baserunning better than last season)
- Develop the kids
- Improve the incumbent pitching resources (Breslow/Bailey influence)
- Make it an interesting summer for the fans
- Position for the Serious Contender window to open in 2025

 

[Average Game James]

I have maybe the lowest expectations going into a season in years, and simultaneously the lowest confidence the team will actually live up to them. Normally, I’m a glass half full guy to start the season (I thought the Patriots could win 10-11 games!), but I honestly struggle to tell a reasonable story that has this team end up better than 3rd in the division. I guess I hope they play well enough that I don’t decide to let my NESN streaming subscription lapse during the season again this year…

 

[jon abbey]

I have maybe the lowest expectations going into a season in years, and simultaneously the lowest confidence the team will actually live up to them. Normally, I’m a glass half full guy to start the season (I thought the Patriots could win 10-11 games!), but I honestly struggle to tell a reasonable story that has this team end up better than 3rd in the division. I guess I hope they play well enough that I don’t decide to let my NESN streaming subscription lapse during the season again this year…

3rd in the AL East is very likely a playoff team so this post confuses me.

 

[CR67dream]

Not as depressing as when this was true for most of the 90's.

I'm solidly on 3, and I don't even need anything other than "play entertaining baseball". 4 championships have cured me from really worrying about whether the Sox win. It's a weird feeling...not really caring either way, but it's nice and easier on my psyche than my younger fan life. However, I still get pissed when they play poorly. I don't want to see so many guys thrown out on the bases, don't want to come close to leading the league in errors, and am sick of seeing some guys put up crappy ABs in key spots. I yearn for the days of Theo, when the Sox usually "controlled the strike zone".

Just play smart, clean baseball. If you can, you also usually have a chance to win.

Get out of my head,

All I'd add or quibble with is that I also want to see them do this consistently and demonstrably look to improve each year. I don't need to get to the promised land every year, and If I don't see another title in my lifetime, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't die happy, but I love me some Red Sox post-season baseball.

but I honestly struggle to tell a reasonable story that has this team end up better than 3rd in the division.

Hell man, if they finish third it's highly likely they're playing in October, or certainly right on the cusp. Sign me up!

 

[rodderick]

I voted option 3 due to context and how the front office/ownership has positioned this team going into 2024, which reset my expectations at a parameter lower than I would have imagined coming off the previous season. After game 162 ended last year I was firmly in the camp of option 2. Now I'll take what is halfway reasonable for me to get.

 

[OCD SS]

I'm with the majority: I voted # 3, largely because with a little spending (or Breslow being a Wizard and pulling a great trade out of his hat) they should have a chance to compete. But I really do like seeing the kids play and develop, and seeing MAT get to the cusp of the majors would be worth it.

 

[The Gray Eagle]

For me, #3 would have to be "Finish out of the basement, compete for a playoff spot through September, and play entertaining baseball and I'm good."

I mean last season they were competing for a playoff spot through late August. On August 26, we were 69-61, 6.5 ahead of the last place Yankees, a couple games out of the wild card, with Story already back and some key pitchers either back or about to be back.

And then they totally cratered and wrecked the whole season as far as I'm concerned. It turned what had been a solidly entertaining season into a garbage meal with a sour mud aftertaste.

The 2023 Red Sox were like someone you meet at a party and you start out thinking, hmm I'm not entirely sure about this person, but they seem kind of funny and entertaining. So you hang out with them for a while and they are saying funny stuff and keeping you entertained, but then about a half hour before you were going to leave, they start screaming obscenities, threatening people, and then puke all over everyone.

I need them to not do that kind of thing again.

There's no reason they still can't sign a couple of solid vets on one-year deals and have a good shot at competing for the wild card for almost all of the season. (Signing Montgomery would really make it likely IMO, but apparently they aren't going to do that so whatever.)

If they don't even make a couple more solid moves though-- not necessarily big names or anything-- then competing won't be very likely and by the end of the Bruins season I'll probably be deciding whether to get rid of the terrible, overpriced NESN 360. (It's called that because it costs you $360 for a year, right? Or is it because there are 360 playback annoyances per week?)

I am basically a diehard fan, and if they get me to that point, then how the heck are they planning to keep the normal people interested?