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Discussion in 'Rick Middleton's Pron 'Stache: Bruins Forum' started by Salem's Lot, Feb 22, 2018.
Per KPD and Haggs
Impressive triple-thread axel.
We'll go with this one.
At one point I thought Vatrano had scoring chops. Guess not.
That was pretty funny. Good return for a non-drafted player grabbed off the scrap heap and turned into a player. Like it.
Did they trade Vatrano to get the pick in order to use it in a bigger deal?
They basically traded two guys that weren't going to play here for injury insurance on defense and 20 spots in the 3rd round of the draft. Pretty good deals overall.
So essentially works out to Holden for Vatrano and O’Gara
And moving up 10? spots in the 3rd round with the pick. No small thing.
Solid deal flipping the undrafted Vatrano who was clearly passed by with better players for a 3rd round pick.
They also freed up a tiny bit of cap space, moved out a contract, and freed up a roster spot. They have a tad more flexibility now. Vatrano was stuck in the no-man’s land.
I agree this is a good deal. Two years ago I probably would have been flabbergasted, but the fact that they got more than a bag of pucks and some spare sticks for Vatrano, who seems like a good guy and teammate, but has absolutely nowhere to play on this roster now or in the future, is pretty cool.
Is the roster spot for Holden or is there another move coming?
He has the shot but has yet to develop anything else. He's Pasta without the skating, vision, passing or stick handling. Oh and he's 4 inches shorter and 2 years older.
If they keep Holden the roster spot like that, something might come.
This is really good. Haha
So more like Chef Boyardee pasta?
Great return for any undrafted guy, let alone a guy who’s played twice in two months.
He needs a longer leash to develop, B’s open up another contract spot and end up moving up in the draft and adding Holden at a minimal net cost.
How much cap space did we save by trading Vatrano and how much cap space do we now have to work with at the deadline?
Current deadline cap space is $2.3m
Bjork's $925k hitting LTIR will subsidize Nash's $900k, so in essence with Vatrano's $792.5k out, $900k in LTIR, and Holden's $1.65m in, they're at about even from where they were trending prior to Holden. My guess is they'll do some backdated conditioning stint with Postma if necessary on deadline day and end up able to absorb ~$3.5m without sending any salary back.
Add in also that it was pretty much a given that the Bruins were going to need to move on from him given where he was on the depth chart. That they were able to get even a third round pick for him given that knowledge is impressive.
Not really sure what the point of trading him now was, don't really need the draft pick and he still has room to grow.
Feels like Sweeney is making deals for the sake of making deals. Both trades he's made seem pointless to me.
This is the kind of trade I would normally go ballistic over, but not this year.
I think his ability to score is legit, but the Bruins just aren’t in a position develop him. They are a competitive team and they are loaded with more developmentally advanced young talent.
I think this move is good for Boston and for Vatrano.
He's an RFA after this year and has no clear spot on the roster, so he's probably worth a bit more now that the Panthers can give him a test run before figuring out if they want to re-sign him.
It is asset management . It is pretty clear that he wasn’t going to get the opportunity to play in Boston. He was passed over on the depth chart by several players and he couldn’t go to Providence unless he passed through waivers which clearly wasn’t happening. He also is an RFA who needs a new deal next season, so he seemed like a non-QO candidate. If they held on to him there is a good chance they would’ve lost him for nothing. Grabbing a pick for a guy who didn’t really have a spot the roster seems like a solid deal to me.
He was injury insurance that could have been traded after the season before the draft. It's not the he was traded, it's the timing.
Agree to disagree, but I'm not as on board with this as others.
Is that 3.5 million pro-rated? Or does it represent the AAV of a contract to acquire? I'm not sure that question makes sense but I'm dumb and having a hard time rewording it.
AAV of a contract to acquire
Thanks for the clarification. Hopefully that is enough if Sweeney finds an impact piece at the deadline that makes sense.
Good deal for all involved. Vatrano's going to get ice time in Florida, B's get a draft pick, Florida gets a player.
They were pretty boxed in asset wise, and a 3rd is good value considering their current position. Hopefully Florida gives him a steady role and we get to see how he does with that opportunity. Good trade for both teams.
Not trying to be snarky, but how were they boxed in right now? He was a useful player that could be used if they needed some injury insurance. Totally agree that this would be a good trade in the offseason, but I'm confused by the timing.
Edit: to clarify, the reason I'm confused by the timing is because they only got a draft pick back. They could have packaged him for an NHL player or waited until the offseason to get a pick.
Do you believe he was more useful than options in Providence that could be move up and down? I'm not seeing any reasons to keep him around.
Full disclosure. I can't stand the guy... only Mike Milbury was a bigger jerk in my 40+ years as a Bruins/hockey fan.
Vatrano? To you specifically? Care to elaborate?
Seconded. That was an unexpected kneecapping.
East Longmeadow kids are all assholes
Not sure how useful he is, really. Moreso than, say, Czarnik?
Honestly, I'm not upset by it, just confused by the timing given the return.
At the end of the day, it probably doesn't matter much, but if the injury bug hits it would be nice to have him.
My 11 year old son and I go to a ton of Rochester Americans games... hockey players are unbelievably fan friendly and we usually try to score some autographs when the Baby B's come to town. We usually hang out by the bus and my son and friends get a practice puck or program signed. Usually a small group of people hang out... a few out for money collectors but mostly kids.
A couple years ago I was chatting with Max Talbot about winning the Cup as he signed for people. Vatrano comes out and proceeds to push his way through the kids and goes straight oh the bus. The guy next to me sais something along the lines of .. that's unusually. Talbot say... Not for him... He's Mr. Big shot. and shook his head.
Some Providence fans who drove to Rochester came over and basically said he was always like that. Worst guy on the team in years.
For a comparison... We were in Syracuse for last year's playoff elimination game. The Bruins lost... We waited outside and Don Sweeney came over and thanked us for supporting the team. Debrusk and Heinan took pictures and signed for all the kids. One of the players overhead my son say he was thirsty and went on the team bus and grabbed a bottle of water.
I'm not being reasonable but eff Vatrano.
Fair enough, thanks for the response. Sorry that happened to you and your kid.
I disagree with your initial premise that he's a useful player. He hasn't been. He hasn't contributed offensively, and he's not a checking line player. The only reason he wasn't in Providence was he had to go through waivers. His value is primarily from his crazy run in the AHL, which he hasn't been able to replicate since. He also likely isn't in their plans next year, which meant he was in danger of being straight released for nothing. Getting a 3rd is good value, and I just disagree that they needed to wait.
Wnyghost--sorry to hear, what a dick.
Just curious if you have a Milbury anecdote from when he played or if it was post-playing career
I grew up watching those late '70s teams, and back then he always seemed pretty fan friendly, though I never encountered him personally.
I think this sums it up, although I’ll allow that is timing is a bit more curious in light of the Bjork news. In the end though, Frank simply got passed over by other players, and if/when injury strikes, they are as or more comfortable with the other options. Czarnik, Cehlarik, Agostino, JFK, maybe Donato, etc.
The trade also gives them a tiny bit more flexibility going into Monday. More cap space, more contract room, more flexibility with the 23 man roster if they need it.
A few friends and I would hang out around the Garden by the big ramp out back and try to get autographs (and explore ways to sneak in to games).
Bruins players were away super cool and stop and sign... a few would even hang out. Bourque was a guy that was would sign one and leave. Milbury would not even slow down and give us the finger...
Couple quick stories... Bobby Orr drove down one night and asked us if we would move off the ramp so we wouldn't accidentally get hit by another car leaving. Signed and told us stories for a while. Super great guy. I had the pleasure to walk in to an ACE Harware in Waltham during a bad snow storm years later.... off to the side is Bobby Orr at a table waiting to sign autographs as part of a Bay Banks (?) promotion. Nobody there but me. He signed and personalized about 20 8x10 photos for every person I could think of. Best wishes, Bobby Orr. On my wall forever.
One day on the ramp a few young girls showed up. Of course we tried our best to impress. A player drives out and stops... chats us up and asks if anyone needs a ride home. The girls jumped right in. Our joke after was Kraig Neinhuas scores more off the ice.
My apologies for the trip down memory lane.
It's not that I necessarily thought they absolutely needed to wait, just was a bit strange to at least not hold onto him until the deadline to see if you could package him. I guess they could always use the draft pick instead, so whatever.
I really do think he could have been a useful player, but you are right that he wasn’t going to be one now.
He would have been best served by spending the year in Providence, which he could not do without them losing him on waivers.
I think there is at least 3-4 guys who would have been ahead of him as injury protection if he was still here.
The last point is key.
It seems that the or-gan-eye-zation gave him a few shots to work on whatever he needed to work on (everything but his shot?) to earn regular time in Boston. He just isn't *that* good of a scorer to overcome that stuff. The fact that he got bypassed in the last 18 months by a long list of players essentially forced the team's hand.
Maybe the B's only viewed his value as a 4th or 5th rounder, along with all other teams they were in discussion with. Suddenly Florida jumps in with an offer you thought you had no chance of getting and they jumped, regardless of timing