USMNT: To Rüssia With Love
- Thread starter Titans Bastard
- Start date
I think a lot of the bullshit could have been curbed with a well-placed red. The hack on Jones or diving at Pulicic's legs are two easily justifiable ones. A yellow to Chicharito for decking Gonzales wouldn't have been misplaced, either.
I hope we have to play the 4th place play-in game. Sick of this bullshit. Feels like about 75% of games since the WC have been blown in the last ten minutes.
its really incredible that US Soccer has not progressed and maybe regressed over the past 10 years
Should have taken the lead on Omar's free header and/or Bradley's INSANE decision to shoot the ball. Mind boggling how bad he is within 25 yards of goal (and everywhere else).
Outside of Wood, Pulisic, Johnson, and Brooks, I hate this team.
Outside of Wood, Pulisic, Johnson, and Brooks, I hate this team.
Last edited:
Brightest spot in an otherwise shit-tastic game. Well, that and Wood having some great touches out there. Pulisic did OK but didn't really create as much as he's capable of, Fabian Johnson had some great challenges including saving our bacon, but nobody really covered themselves in glory tonight.
The second half looked to me to be a really compelling game played by two really good teams in an important game. The decision to play the first half with a Swiss cheese formation is so utterly fucking mystifying to me.
I know shit about this game but please tell me what I can see is spot on. Bobby Wood is a badass. The acceleration is sick.
Ref was good and even. Handled a tough match.
Wood was really good. Jozy fought hard. Pulisic showed fearlessness, readiness for the stage.
The 3-5-2 should have been played more like a 5-3-2 to start. Advance wing backs forward as space opens, not before. To do so in reverse, they were fucked. OR, play a dedicated CDM (which is whom since KB was mercifully put to pasture).
Omar can't play RCB in a 3 CB, doesn't have the swivel or the quicks needed to defend flanks occasionally. Everything came from the Mx left.
Impressed to see JK acknowledge flaws 20 in. Impressed to see the US really take it to the second half.
Sucks to lose that way.
Wood was really good. Jozy fought hard. Pulisic showed fearlessness, readiness for the stage.
The 3-5-2 should have been played more like a 5-3-2 to start. Advance wing backs forward as space opens, not before. To do so in reverse, they were fucked. OR, play a dedicated CDM (which is whom since KB was mercifully put to pasture).
Omar can't play RCB in a 3 CB, doesn't have the swivel or the quicks needed to defend flanks occasionally. Everything came from the Mx left.
Impressed to see JK acknowledge flaws 20 in. Impressed to see the US really take it to the second half.
Sucks to lose that way.
I would not say the ref was even. USA was very physical and foul prone and could have easily had a man sent off in this one. I thought Mexico had much better team speed and we're largely playing around the US who were resorting to fouling on many occasions. If I were a Mexico fan I probably would have been livid at the entire first half and how many fouls the US got away with
Altidore has his uses, but his skills are all in raw physical athleticism like headers in traffic, and in holding the ball up to play to someone with actual ball skills. He's not someone you play at striker if you have better options, like Clint Dempsey or Bobby Wood.
Bradley was the best player the USA had from about 2007-2012. He was among the first US players ever to be a starter on a Champions League-grade club. There was a time he personally demolished soon-to-be-world-champs Spain, and almost did the same to Brazil a few days later in what would have won the US a major title. He was good enough, recently enough, that you can kind of understand a coach running him out there hoping he'll figure it out again. OCST and many others think that it's just that his time has passed, now that he's not in Europe facing top competition anymore. Maybe they're right, but it's not like he's useless and always has been.
The overall talent level on the USA is probably higher than it's ever been. What's holding us back is mixing athleticism-first MLS-style players with technique-first Europe-style players and then not giving them enough time together to figure out how to play as a unit.
I mean, consider our (highly-arguable) best Starting 11 out there and look at their pedigrees:
GK - Howard/Guzan - Recent starters for EPL teams (Everton, Middlesbrough/Aston Villa)
CB - Brooks - Regular starter in Germany for a team ranked #4 in the league (Hertha)
CB - Cameron - Regular starter in an EPL team (Stoke)
LB - Fabian Johnson - Regular starter on a Champions League team in Germany
RB - Yedlin - Recent starter in the EPL, current starter for an EPL-grade team in the English Championship
DM - Jones - Former starter in Champions League-grade team in Germany until 2014
CM - Bradley - Former box-to-box starter in Italy, Holland and Germany until 2014
LW - Pulisic - Regular starter in Germany for Champions-League-playing Dortmund
RW - Zusi / Zardes / Bedoya - MLS star / MLS star / current MLS, recently a player in France and Sweden
SS - Wood - Playmaker for a (bad) first-division team in Germany; last year had an MVP-type year in the German second league
CF - Dempsey - Former legitimate star in the EPL, highest transfer fee ever for an American; current MLS star
We're not short on players who compete at the highest levels of the game. Jones and Bradley (and Dempsey and Howard) are aging out of that level, but still add value when healthy.
Compare that to tonight's lineup from Mexico:
GK - Talavera - Liga MX (Ochoa - Granada, Spain)
FB - Reyes - Espanyol, Spain / Ayala - Liga MX
CB - Marquez - The Forces of Hell, I assume. Won the UCL at Barcelona.
CB - Moreno - PSV Eindhoven, Netherlands (UCL)
FB - Layun - Porto, Portugal (UCL)
MF - Guardado - PSV Eindhoven, Netherlands (UCL) / Salcedo - Fiorentina, Serie A
MF - Herrera - Porto, Portugal (UCL)
MF - Dos Santos - MLS, former La Liga standout
FW - Corona - Porto, Portugal (UCL)
FW - Chicharito - Bayer Leverkusen (UCL)
FW - Vela - Real Sociedad, Spain / Lozano - Liga MX
That's a starting group that either plays for one of 2 UCL teams (Porto and PSV), or in Liga MX, with Vela being the exception. Other than at keeper, I'm not sure how many US players would start on the Mexico team, but the talent gap is a lot closer than it used to be.
I thought the most egregious miss was the tackle from behind by Jones that deserved a yellow. Beyond that though, I don't think Mexico can complain. Chicharito was allowed to go shoulder first into our CBs on every aerial challenge without a call and the Mexican players seemed to be the ones escalating after the whistle. I won't blame the ref for the loss, the first goal was bad defending by Bradley and the second was just a complete failure to mark on a set piece. But, I don't think Mexico can complain either.
I don't really understand the Orozco sub. Why not put Kljestan in, move Johnson to left back, and Yedlin to right back?
I don't really understand the Orozco sub. Why not put Kljestan in, move Johnson to left back, and Yedlin to right back?
Edit: From IF post above, with poor formatting
I mean, consider our (highly-arguable) best Starting 11 out there and look at their pedigrees:
*GK - Howard/Guzan - Recent starters for EPL teams (Everton, Middlesbrough/Aston Villa)
CB - Brooks - Regular starter in Germany for a team ranked #4 in the league (Hertha)
CB - Cameron - Regular starter in an EPL team (Stoke)
LB - Fabian Johnson - Regular starter on a Champions League team in Germany
*RB - Yedlin - Recent starter in the EPL, current starter for an EPL-grade team in the English Championship
*DM - Jones - Former starter in Champions League-grade team in Germany until 2014
*CM - Bradley - Former box-to-box starter in Italy, Holland and Germany until 2014
LW - Pulisic - Regular starter in Germany for Champions-League-playing Dortmund
*RW - Zusi / Zardes / Bedoya - MLS star / MLS star / current MLS, recently a player in France and Sweden
SS - Wood - Playmaker for a (bad) first-division team in Germany; last year had an MVP-type year in the German second league
*CF - Dempsey - Former legitimate star in the EPL, highest transfer fee ever for an American; current MLS star
* means use of "former" or "recent". that may be our problem. Depth and new blood is missing.
I mean, consider our (highly-arguable) best Starting 11 out there and look at their pedigrees:
*GK - Howard/Guzan - Recent starters for EPL teams (Everton, Middlesbrough/Aston Villa)
CB - Brooks - Regular starter in Germany for a team ranked #4 in the league (Hertha)
CB - Cameron - Regular starter in an EPL team (Stoke)
LB - Fabian Johnson - Regular starter on a Champions League team in Germany
*RB - Yedlin - Recent starter in the EPL, current starter for an EPL-grade team in the English Championship
*DM - Jones - Former starter in Champions League-grade team in Germany until 2014
*CM - Bradley - Former box-to-box starter in Italy, Holland and Germany until 2014
LW - Pulisic - Regular starter in Germany for Champions-League-playing Dortmund
*RW - Zusi / Zardes / Bedoya - MLS star / MLS star / current MLS, recently a player in France and Sweden
SS - Wood - Playmaker for a (bad) first-division team in Germany; last year had an MVP-type year in the German second league
*CF - Dempsey - Former legitimate star in the EPL, highest transfer fee ever for an American; current MLS star
* means use of "former" or "recent". that may be our problem. Depth and new blood is missing.
Yedlin is not the problem. He's playing every week for a team that will be in the EPL next year, and learning from one of the most decorated coaches in the business.
Keeper is not the problem. Guzan and Howard are miles better than any other GK we could throw out there, although Guzan didn't look great on that second goal tonight. They are certainly not preventing the likes of Horvath and Yarbrough from showcasing their world-class talents.
Dempsey is not the problem. When he sees the field, he's making an impact. When he's not healthy, he's giving opportunities to the younger forwards on our team to shine, particularly Wood. (and soon, I hope, Julian Green and Gooch)
I think you can get away with one slow midfielder who has great touch on the ball. Two, not so much. But even there, these are guys with experience at a level we simply had none of prior to about 05-06. "Bruce Arena and the MLS All-Stars" was a fun experiment, watching outclassed guys overachieve because they knew each other well and busted their asses for each other. But the USMNT today is the kind of team that would have crushed the USMNT of a decade or two ago. Let's not let occasional setbacks against world-class sides like Mexico obscure that fact.
Keeper is not the problem. Guzan and Howard are miles better than any other GK we could throw out there, although Guzan didn't look great on that second goal tonight. They are certainly not preventing the likes of Horvath and Yarbrough from showcasing their world-class talents.
Dempsey is not the problem. When he sees the field, he's making an impact. When he's not healthy, he's giving opportunities to the younger forwards on our team to shine, particularly Wood. (and soon, I hope, Julian Green and Gooch)
I think you can get away with one slow midfielder who has great touch on the ball. Two, not so much. But even there, these are guys with experience at a level we simply had none of prior to about 05-06. "Bruce Arena and the MLS All-Stars" was a fun experiment, watching outclassed guys overachieve because they knew each other well and busted their asses for each other. But the USMNT today is the kind of team that would have crushed the USMNT of a decade or two ago. Let's not let occasional setbacks against world-class sides like Mexico obscure that fact.
In all seriousness re: Bradley, it's not just that he's lost a step physically. His head seems somewhere else. His passes lack conviction - there were several build ups in attack where he squandered the whole thing with a weak pass, and a few routine back passes almost became breakaway opportunities for Mexico because he just kind of slowly dribbled them out there, begging to be picked off. He also was largely at fault for the first MEX goal - he kind of stood there and let the ball be played away from him.
He seemed to have more of a clue as the game went on, but a holding midfielder who makes bad passes isn't much use.
He seemed to have more of a clue as the game went on, but a holding midfielder who makes bad passes isn't much use.
Last edited:
Yeah, he's constantly behind the play defensively (and lacks Jones' unnatural ability to recover with a usually clean slide tackle from behind) and is constantly pulling himself out of position to overcompensate.
Offensively he's a disaster. There's nothing he does anymore that could not be done by just about any of the other CMs in the pool.
Offensively he's a disaster. There's nothing he does anymore that could not be done by just about any of the other CMs in the pool.
I saw a team that inexplicably came out with a back 3 with Yedlin on the bench, got bossed for 20 minutes, and then adjusted to play scrappy for the rest of the half. Having to burn a sub on Howard hurt, but the team reorganized well and played a strong 30 minutes to start the second half. The second Mexico goal was well executed by them and abetted by a failure to mark well. This one is primarily on Klinsman.
I really don't get leaving Yedlin on bench for 74 minutes (unless there's an injury I missed). Other than Pulisic, he's the US player in the best form at the moment. With Yedlin on the right and Pulisic on the left, the US suddenly has much better width going forward. That said, I do think it's time to bring Pulisic into the middle behind Wood with Altidore coming on as the attacking sub when necessary.
Folks are piling on Bradley a bit much. He's not as good as he once was and nowhere near as good as we had all imagined he would be. His best days were back at Chievo, playing deep and disciplined, looking to start the counter whenever possible. Those days are long gone as are those tactical instincts. His long free kicks (30-50yds out) are still strong, and he's got the captain's armband, which counts for a lot in the national team set up. Plus, there really isn't a replacement out there for either him or Jones. Kljestan? Or trying to bleed in Stanko far too early? There just aren't better options in the pool right now....so love the one you're with...
I really don't get leaving Yedlin on bench for 74 minutes (unless there's an injury I missed). Other than Pulisic, he's the US player in the best form at the moment. With Yedlin on the right and Pulisic on the left, the US suddenly has much better width going forward. That said, I do think it's time to bring Pulisic into the middle behind Wood with Altidore coming on as the attacking sub when necessary.
Folks are piling on Bradley a bit much. He's not as good as he once was and nowhere near as good as we had all imagined he would be. His best days were back at Chievo, playing deep and disciplined, looking to start the counter whenever possible. Those days are long gone as are those tactical instincts. His long free kicks (30-50yds out) are still strong, and he's got the captain's armband, which counts for a lot in the national team set up. Plus, there really isn't a replacement out there for either him or Jones. Kljestan? Or trying to bleed in Stanko far too early? There just aren't better options in the pool right now....so love the one you're with...
I tend to agree with most of that. You don't trot a formation change out against Mexico.
I'd love to see Pulisic as a trequartista behind Wood and, I guess, Altidore. I've trashed Jozy but he hasn't been the utter dumpster fire I've come to hate of late. I don't see the kid getting much experience in that role as Dortmund, however, and you don't learn such a position at the national team level. As he continues to fill out and put on some muscle he'll continue to evolve.
Bradley does deserve much of the hate he's received. He's utterly lost. He gave up the ball that led to the first goal and his decision to shoot in the second half will go down as the turning point in the game. He can't play next to Jermaine Jones. Their deficits don't offset, they match. We can forgive the declining physical skills but the corresponding tactical implosion doesn't make much sense.
The last dead horse I'm going to kick is Omar Gonzalez. Of all the players on the pitch, the one playing in Liga MX should be used to the "game within the game" that a side like Mexico is going to play. He rose to the bait entirely too often for anybody that's going to be up against CONCACAF competition. He also looked utterly unprepared for the ball to come to him in a designed play and absolutely blew a golden opportunity. You can't count on a defender to score, but come on.
I'd love to see Pulisic as a trequartista behind Wood and, I guess, Altidore. I've trashed Jozy but he hasn't been the utter dumpster fire I've come to hate of late. I don't see the kid getting much experience in that role as Dortmund, however, and you don't learn such a position at the national team level. As he continues to fill out and put on some muscle he'll continue to evolve.
Bradley does deserve much of the hate he's received. He's utterly lost. He gave up the ball that led to the first goal and his decision to shoot in the second half will go down as the turning point in the game. He can't play next to Jermaine Jones. Their deficits don't offset, they match. We can forgive the declining physical skills but the corresponding tactical implosion doesn't make much sense.
The last dead horse I'm going to kick is Omar Gonzalez. Of all the players on the pitch, the one playing in Liga MX should be used to the "game within the game" that a side like Mexico is going to play. He rose to the bait entirely too often for anybody that's going to be up against CONCACAF competition. He also looked utterly unprepared for the ball to come to him in a designed play and absolutely blew a golden opportunity. You can't count on a defender to score, but come on.
I dunno about Yedlin being the most in-form player at the moment, Fabian Johnson had some incredible work there in his 1-on-1 battles and especially that goal-line clearance just before the last goal. Bobby Wood was bossing out there. Tim Howard made that incredible save at 10' that I doubt half a dozen goalies in the world get a fingertip on. John Brooks had a great game other than, I think, one shaky back-pass. We have a lot of good talent out there, although Besler didn't quite look up to his role. Maybe part of that was Gonzalez, I couldn't quite disentangle the two, though Gonzalez passed my eye test a little better.
I'd be fine trying Kljestan in place of Bradley and seeing how it goes. I think Jones is still doing good work out there, even if he's not in his Bundesliga form.
I'd be fine trying Kljestan in place of Bradley and seeing how it goes. I think Jones is still doing good work out there, even if he's not in his Bundesliga form.
I should have been more specific - I meant in-form in for their league sides. Yedlin's gone the full 90 for Newcastle 5 of the last 6 games, chipped in 2 assists, and done some tidy defensive work. He's also attempting 5 more passes per game than he did at Sunderland (27.7-22.5) and completing them at a higher rate (75.9%-67.6%) with more long balls and crosses in there, too. Yedlin's game is developing very nicely right now. He needs to be on the pitch for the US.
Also, Wood and Jones are inspirational in their hard work. I'm not saying they're the most talented guys, but no one else gets more out of their talent.
Last edited:
Ah, yes, I completely agree with that. His star is certainly rising, and you could hardly wish him a better club situation than he's got. He definitely deserves the start over Timothy f'ing Chandler.
I think I've been lamenting this specific issue after each match for a while now but our CM options are just unacceptably bad. We are incredibly slow in the mifdield and there's no combination of players in the pool who can pair Bradley or Jones (let alone both) in a midfield and keep it from being overrun. Especially when also trying to play 2 strikers.
I am a relentless fan of open, attacking, free flowing football. I want the USMNT to develop players who can play the complete game. Even I can admit that if he's going to stick with this aging core in big matches and only bring in Pulisic we'd be far more successful playing a 4-5-1 to cover their deficiencies and letting Pulisic, Wood, and someone else try to bomb forward and steal goals here and there. I don't think that's a path to anything more than an interesting result here and there but at this point Bradley and Jones are more likely to become baristas than trequaristas or registas. I would sure like to know what the hell we've been doing for the last 6-8 years that we can'f produce a single CM who can capably push either of them.
Mexico wasn't the time and this will never happen but I'd love to see JK just try to select a different style of midfield. Not even so much around the presence or not of a holding midfielder but more in the energy levels and styles of the players chosen. It feels like the roles are always the same and the players chosen are chosen to fill the roles. There's nothing particularly wrong with that but our CM depth is so bare right now I think it's a real shame we haven't had an opportunity to try a few others out to see if the mix was correct.
I am a relentless fan of open, attacking, free flowing football. I want the USMNT to develop players who can play the complete game. Even I can admit that if he's going to stick with this aging core in big matches and only bring in Pulisic we'd be far more successful playing a 4-5-1 to cover their deficiencies and letting Pulisic, Wood, and someone else try to bomb forward and steal goals here and there. I don't think that's a path to anything more than an interesting result here and there but at this point Bradley and Jones are more likely to become baristas than trequaristas or registas. I would sure like to know what the hell we've been doing for the last 6-8 years that we can'f produce a single CM who can capably push either of them.
Mexico wasn't the time and this will never happen but I'd love to see JK just try to select a different style of midfield. Not even so much around the presence or not of a holding midfielder but more in the energy levels and styles of the players chosen. It feels like the roles are always the same and the players chosen are chosen to fill the roles. There's nothing particularly wrong with that but our CM depth is so bare right now I think it's a real shame we haven't had an opportunity to try a few others out to see if the mix was correct.
It's only T&T, but I actually thought that when Kljestan, Pulisic and Bradley were all on the field together, they played well together and I thought Bradley looked more comfortable that I've seen him in years. I'm shitty with Xs and Os, but I think Kljestan was doing some of the linking stuff that Bradley tries to do, and he was more comfortable with fewer responsibilities. Not sure that's a line up we'll see in the hex, until Jones picks up a second yellow, but that's how I remember the T&T game at least.
Great post. Agree with everything, though I'd take issue with this last bit. The sad part is that JK HAS had the opportunity to try a few others and see if the mix was correct - that was called Sept 3, 2014 (first post WC game vs. Czech Republic) until last Thursday. He singularly failed to do so even while it's been apparent that Bradley's form was slipping. Even worse, the other potentially exciting midfield options have either been exiled (Nagbe) or only haltingly embraced after exile (Kljestan).
It's increasingly clear that JK's clock is ticking and he is unable to get the USMNT to the next level. Assuming no sea change in results (no reason to believe so given his poor tactics and the talent to work with), he'll be gone shortly after Russia.
The problem with this midfield "trio" is that Klejstan isn't particularly fleet of foot either and with he and Pulisic wanting to take up advanced positions it leaves Bradley with a lot of room to cover. Against inferior opposition we might just about cover it. But when coming up against Mexico or any of the World teams with class they are going to have too many pacy, technical players for us to continue to roll out as many relatively slow players are we are regularly rolling out there. Even Nagbe, who seems to have separate issues with JK, is not the most active, high pressure midfielder even if I wouldn't say he's slow. The end result is that we have a couple of guys with great work rate and little else or some vestiges of talent but severe flaws that submarine team composition.
It's probably an overreaction to the 1st half against Mexico but we just looked so off the pace against them. We were fouling because we had to foul. Because they were quicker and they were creating danger in open play and our players were a step behind or out of position to defend the danger. Some of the changes like Yedlin did some things to up our overall team speed and allow us to scramble a bit less but I look at that situation and wonder how the hell we are going to navigate it for the next 10 years. Pulisic looks to be turning into quite a player but he's also playing in a very advanced role. When the other team is swarming, building momentum, and controlling play, who will we set up in the middle of the pitch to go toe to toe and try to win that battle? The old guard was semi capable but have lost too much. I just don't see that solid, athletic b2b midfielder who makes all good teams tick.
Tim Howard had surgery today and is out for four months.
I enjoyed Bobby Warshaw's detailed breakdown of the 3-5-2 that Klinsmann trotted out. He focused particularly on the right side of defense with Chandler and Gonzalez, an area that was a particular weakness in the first third of the game. It's not exactly a secret that Gonzalez is a lumbering CB with limited mobility, so it's not exactly a shock that Mexico was able to totally dominate on the left side.
Using an unfamiliar formation with ill-fitting parts was a crazy move by Klinsmann. He's lucky that Mexico only scored once in the first half hour. The defensive spacing was even worse than it usually is.
I thought that Bradley and Jones have never been a pairing that is equal to the sum of its parts. Now that Jones and Bradley are both worse players than they once were, it's a real concern. We have other midfielders, but it's awfully late in the game to try big experiments. Especially because the US is likely to lose in Costa Rica tomorrow.
A home loss to Mexico and a road loss to CR would not be catastrophic, but it would put a lot of pressure on the team throughout the rest of the Hex. The margin for error is smaller.
I enjoyed Bobby Warshaw's detailed breakdown of the 3-5-2 that Klinsmann trotted out. He focused particularly on the right side of defense with Chandler and Gonzalez, an area that was a particular weakness in the first third of the game. It's not exactly a secret that Gonzalez is a lumbering CB with limited mobility, so it's not exactly a shock that Mexico was able to totally dominate on the left side.
Using an unfamiliar formation with ill-fitting parts was a crazy move by Klinsmann. He's lucky that Mexico only scored once in the first half hour. The defensive spacing was even worse than it usually is.
I thought that Bradley and Jones have never been a pairing that is equal to the sum of its parts. Now that Jones and Bradley are both worse players than they once were, it's a real concern. We have other midfielders, but it's awfully late in the game to try big experiments. Especially because the US is likely to lose in Costa Rica tomorrow.
A home loss to Mexico and a road loss to CR would not be catastrophic, but it would put a lot of pressure on the team throughout the rest of the Hex. The margin for error is smaller.
No link, but I've heard that Klinsmann was not at all pleased with Yedlin's move to Newcastle and that his status in the NT pecking order was likely to suffer as a result.
He seemed pretty fine with it back in September. http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klinsmann-believes-newcastle-move-11840069
Maybe he wants Yedlin fresher for the Costa Rica match, or it's just one of JK's idiosyncratic tinkering for tinkering's sake. Who knows?
I'm long past granting the benefit of the doubt to this buffoon. I don't know what it is about the USMNT job that causes managers to roll out obviously bad lineups or tactics that need to be fixed before anyone even breaks a sweat.
ohh NBC universo! yay!
Live on beIN Sports Connect or on the go90 app. was listed as options. But also the usual vipbox
Live on beIN Sports Connect or on the go90 app. was listed as options. But also the usual vipbox
I don't know much Spanish, but I've got enough to pick out "Donde esta Bradley? Donde esta Jones?" and those are good questions.