The JBJ/mets rumor is coming from Cafardo
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/cafardos-latest-royals-parra-bradley-hanley.html
Trade Rumors
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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The JBJ/mets rumor is coming from Cafardo
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/cafardos-latest-royals-parra-bradley-hanley.html
Noted, I didn't click on the link as I should have. That being said, I'd assign more weight to a random staff tweet to anything from Cafardo, but that's just me (and most everyone else here).
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Yeah, I generally put equal weight on @BotStove and Cafardo - they seem to be based on about the same amount of factual data. I can't wait for @BotStove to actually successfully predict a trade.
EDIT: Dammit, why can't I embed this tweet?
EDIT: Argh!
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I can see the Mets thinking about moving Harvey because of his contract status/the pitch limit brouhaha/general diva-ness but this is a team that was just in the World Series. They are not going to settle for a Kimbrell-like package of long term prospects. They'll want players that improve their lineup now. So unless it's Mookie or Xander going the other way, Harvey is not coming here. One would think this is even more true for their other pitchers, who don't have Harvey's issues.
Craig Mish @CraigMish 16m16 minutes ago
Growing sentiment around Baseball and internally with the @marlins is Jose Fernandez will be traded this offseason.
Growing sentiment around Baseball and internally with the @marlins is Jose Fernandez will be traded this offseason.
Too bad DD is committed to getting a starting pitcher on the free agent market.
Fernandez isn't a FA until 2019, but is a Boras client. If Fernandez were traded it would likely be as part of the process of blowing up the team yet again, with an eye to competing in a couple of years when the next wave of prospects matures. I'd assume that they were looking for high level prospects, maybe a MLB stopgap player or two. But why not just trade him in 2018, if you're not competing?
It seems unlikely, but nothing would surprise me about the Marlins.
Just to clear this up so everyone is on the same page, he is a free agent after the 2018 season and would be a free agent in 2019. So the Marlins only have 3 more years with him. They could still hang into him for a couple years obviously, but that would diminish their return (and with his health history it could mean they get nothing for him).
Fernandez, coming off of TJ surgery, is arb eligible. He's a FA in 2019. Boras is his agent.
Despite any injury risk, he's somewhat cost controlled for the next 3 years.
- Why would the Marlins want to trade him now?
- If they did, they'd need substantial cost control back - with equal or better talent - for an equal or better amount of years...and less injury risk.
How on earth does that translate to any kind of deal with any team?
Despite any injury risk, he's somewhat cost controlled for the next 3 years.
- Why would the Marlins want to trade him now?
- If they did, they'd need substantial cost control back - with equal or better talent - for an equal or better amount of years...and less injury risk.
How on earth does that translate to any kind of deal with any team?
He's also an ace caliber starter if he's healthy, which he seems to be having logged a half season after recovering from TJ surgery. My point was that the Marlins would only trade him if they think they can't compete in 16, 17, and 18, and/or couldn't extend him past 18. If that's the scenario, what would the Marlins be looking for?
(As an aside the Marlins' pythag was 75 wins last year - and that's with a half season of Fernandez and a half season of Stanton. Stanton's 26 and Fernandez is 23. They're not that far away from being competitive.)
(As an aside the Marlins' pythag was 75 wins last year - and that's with a half season of Fernandez and a half season of Stanton. Stanton's 26 and Fernandez is 23. They're not that far away from being competitive.)
Well, if we're hearing this "sentiment", chances are DD heard about it a while back, has checked in on the cost, and said what he said.
Or DD's plan might evolve as the market develops.
And I'm pretty sure that kieckered was being facetious.
Yeah I was kind of responding to the original post about Fernandez, and you did seem like you were half-joking.
Please. When was the last time we had endless speculation about the possibility of acquiring a Marlins superstar? Never happens.
Please. When was the last time we had endless speculation about the possibility of acquiring a Marlins superstar? Never happens.
Joe Frisaro @JoeFrisaro 3h3 hours agoCooper City, FL
Two highly placed sources tell me Jose Fernandez is not being shopped or discussed to be shopped. Will that changes, who knows? #Marlins
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 5m5 minutes ago
The #Marlins are willing to trade ace Jose Fernandez because of perceived attitude issues, according to report by @AndySlater
If you don't think DD is blowing up the FLA phone lines I don't know what to tell you.....
From Slater's story...
As I reported last week and on Tuesday, the Marlins front office is not happy with Fernandez's attitude. "Jose talks to management like they are children," another player source told me. I've now learned, it goes beyond that.
On at least two occasions in the Marlins clubhouse this season, Fernandez approached Hill --- according to multiple player sources --- and openly said "when are you going to trade me?"
"There were times this season where, not all, but some players and coaches hoped Jose would go out on the mound and get shelled," a player source told me. "We thought it would get him to be more humble."
Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria implemented a team rule stating players and coaches are not permitted to wear pullover hoodies during batting practice or in the dugout during a game unless the team is playing in cold weather conditions. "That's a rule that Fernandez doesn't care about," one player source told me.
Casey McGehee --- who the Marlins brought back mid-season --- got into a shouting match with Fernandez before one game, I'm told. "Jose was late and Casey gave it to him," the source said.
http://slaterscoops.com/news/2015/11/18/the-miami-marlins-clubhouse-was-a-circus-literally
The #Marlins are willing to trade ace Jose Fernandez because of perceived attitude issues, according to report by @AndySlater
If you don't think DD is blowing up the FLA phone lines I don't know what to tell you.....
From Slater's story...
As I reported last week and on Tuesday, the Marlins front office is not happy with Fernandez's attitude. "Jose talks to management like they are children," another player source told me. I've now learned, it goes beyond that.
On at least two occasions in the Marlins clubhouse this season, Fernandez approached Hill --- according to multiple player sources --- and openly said "when are you going to trade me?"
"There were times this season where, not all, but some players and coaches hoped Jose would go out on the mound and get shelled," a player source told me. "We thought it would get him to be more humble."
Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria implemented a team rule stating players and coaches are not permitted to wear pullover hoodies during batting practice or in the dugout during a game unless the team is playing in cold weather conditions. "That's a rule that Fernandez doesn't care about," one player source told me.
Casey McGehee --- who the Marlins brought back mid-season --- got into a shouting match with Fernandez before one game, I'm told. "Jose was late and Casey gave it to him," the source said.
http://slaterscoops.com/news/2015/11/18/the-miami-marlins-clubhouse-was-a-circus-literally
Now Nightengale getting called out for extrapolating...
- Brian MacPherson Retweeted
Andy Slater @AndySlater 6m6 minutes ago
Andy Slater Retweeted Bob Nightengale
That's not something I said. Anywhere.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale
The #Marlins are willing to trade ace Jose Fernandez because of perceived attitude issues, according to report by @AndySlater
30 retweets8 likes
'"Included in the deal"? I wouldn't trade Betts (5 years left) for Fernandez (3 years) straight up. Bogaerts (4 years), the value is closer, I think I would if I had a plan to get another SS at a reasonable cost. But I wouldn't throw much else in.
Swihart is enough to be the centerpiece of a Fernandez deal.
Please stop with the trade Swihart nonsense. I am not calling you out Moondog, but the constant apearance of Swihart in trade scenarios is a maddening example of poorly thought out trade proposals. We have 1 healthy, young catcher who is a switch hitter and has demonstrated an ability to improve at the major league level. We have a 35 year old back up catcher in Hanigan and we have Sandy Leon. Vazquez is an unknown quantity right now and will remain so until he gets consistent playing time in spring training and at AAA. Will Vazquez recover fully from TJ surgery? Can he become a full time catcher? The Sox don't know, and it would be utterly irresponsible on their part to deal away Swihart at this point. Perhaps if and when Vazquez demonstrates that he is capable of being a starting catcher one of Swihart or Vazquez gets dealt, but currently such a deal only weakens the team.
Joe Frisaro @JoeFrisaro 1m1 minute agoCooper City, FL
After 4th emphatic "NO. NOT TRUE." Plus some "slow news day" responses from those I trust. I'm done addressing Jose rumors. #Marlins
After 4th emphatic "NO. NOT TRUE." Plus some "slow news day" responses from those I trust. I'm done addressing Jose rumors. #Marlins
What's nonsense is expecting to trade extraneous pieces for a guy like Fernandez. The hole created by losing Swihart is smaller than the one filled by obtaining Fernandez.
Attitude problems? Maybe some didn't learn from the Pierzinski fiasco. A happy clubhouse is not to be undersold.
Might want to re-read my posts. I'll summarize to make it easier.
1. You can't expect to trade extraneous pieces for Fernandez.
2. I advocate trading Swihart as the main piece for him.
It sort of follows that I don't consider Swihart extraneous, but he's a sacrifice worth making for Fernandez.
Braves are apparently listening to teams inquiring about Shelby Miller. Is he a worthy trade target, as an alternative to signing someone like Cueto or Zimmermann? If so, what's he worth in Sox prospects? Owens plus...?
Miller strikes me as the textbook definition of guy who has built a reputation by overperforming his peripherals.
His knock has always been he's a 2-pitch pitcher (one of the main reasons STL was willing to let him go for 1 year of Heyward). Well, last year he started throwing a cutter more, but interestingly did so at the expense of his only true offspeed pitch (curve). So now he's still a 2-pitch pitcher but with both pitches being >87mph. Regardless, in last year's "breakout season" his SwStr% or K% didn't really jump that much and he still posted an xFIP that was 5% below NL average. Even last year he was, peripherally, a poor man's Rick Porcello.
No harm in kicking the tires, but my guess is he'd cost way more to get than he'd be worth to the Red Sox.
So .. lets see if I have this right? You don't want Jose Fernandez because he likes wearing hoodies in the dugout and dislikes stupid arbitrary rules imposed by a completely dysfunctional front office?
I don't want Jose Fernandez if he's a 23 malcontent to the point where his teammates are actively rooting for him to get his comeuppance in hope that it humbles him. They didn't take that stance because he likes to wear a hoodie. Or if he's daily asking the GM to be traded. We have a young team that is going to get younger. We are losing our strongest clubhouse presence. There's an argument to be made for putting up with that stuff but it's not one to be made for such a pun guy, IMO.
The one that made me react the same as Poutine was "There were times this season where, not all, but some players and coaches hoped Jose would go out on the mound and get shelled," a player source told me. "We thought it would get him to be more humble." Now maybe that's BS, or exaggerated, or whatever, but I don't really want to build my rotation around a guy who's such a butthole that his teammates are rooting for him to be humiliated on the mound at their expense.
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It's concerning, requires more investigation, but I wouldn't take it off the table altogether. I'm sure Pedro and Schill both pissed off plenty of teammates.
On the other hand, perhaps a stronger clubhouse with real leaders could put a stop to his nonsense without resorting to wishing ill on him and the team. I'm thinking Ortiz or Pedroia wouldn't sit idly by while some snot-nosed young player acted like he was hot shit and the world's greatest gift to baseball.
Not that I'm necessarily advocating a trade for the guy, but just because he doesn't seem to get along with one clubhouse, doesn't mean he'd have the same effect on any clubhouse he walks into.
You know that Pierzinski was considered the clubhouse leader in Atlanta last year right? Objectivity around clubhouse respect is slippery like an oily eel.
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I'm going to assume DD already did his DD looking into which starters were potentially available this off season from the sound of things at the meetings. If Fernandez was seriously ever even considered available - you'd have to think it was explored and either determined cost prohibitive or that he was actually never gettable. Especially before pulling the trigger in moving good pieces for Kimbrel.
And FWIW that clubhouse had to be bottom 5 with a GM trying to run things from the dugout and the superstar out for much of the year.
And FWIW that clubhouse had to be bottom 5 with a GM trying to run things from the dugout and the superstar out for much of the year.
If Miami decides they want to trade Fernandez, they're going to take the best offer. The only way the Sox have include one of those two is if another team is willing to give up a young player with just as much promise. And that ain't happening. The Sox only have to beat the second-best offer, and they won't have to include Betts or Bogaerts to do that.
I know Loria can be a tad crazy but I don't think he's stupid. If he decides to trade Fernandez he'll do it for a good price. He's a businessman first then an owner. Loria is already talking about dumping Marcell Ozuna so the chance he'll let Fernandez go might be slim. I don't see him imploding the team when he has a chance to build up the Marlin brand with a full season of both Fernandez and Stanton. That is of course if he isn't already think about dumping payroll and taking another $50 million from MLB in revenue sharing to pay the shareholders.
Edit Crazy not Crash ... note to one self: don't watch Bull Durham while writing stuff on SoSH.
Edit Crazy not Crash ... note to one self: don't watch Bull Durham while writing stuff on SoSH.
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I was talking about Pedro / Fernandez' behavior. I don't think the Marlins or Dodgers response is particularly germane, do you? Do you want me to pull up the quotes where he demands to be traded, shows up late, is attacked for not being humble, and fights with the league over his wardrobe?
I'd like you to show me where Pedro was a 23 yo with one and a half seasons and a TJ under his belt that was pulling this shit. What he did when he was F'ing PEDRO, isn't really a relative point. Fernandez isn't PEDRO. He's apparently a pre arb guy that his teammates and coaches hate, that is cocky and malcontent enough to be demanding trades. I don't find that comparable to Pedro being a diva when he had a few Cy youngs under his belt and I don't recall his teammates hating him, but if you want to claim it's the same knock yourself out.