This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots

[Jinhocho]

Ted Johnson has been shitting on BB for 10+ years now, he's not to be listened to.

Frankly and bluntly, the reason why they look so awful is that the QB is so bad the rest of the team KNOWS they cannot win with him under center, so they initially try to do too much which results in mistakes and penalties, and then as reality sets in as Mac kills yet another game they resign themselves to the loss.

This would would be 6-5 or 7-4 with anyone other than Mac at QB and I will never, ever change my mind on that. He's driven the team straight into the toilet.

Exactly. He is bad beyond their wildest dreams. For a team that is built to play good defense, run the ball, and win lower scoring games It's near impossible to win with a quarterback creating so many turnover worthy plays and so many turnovers, many of which have resulted in points for the other team. It might even be survivable in a Josh Allen kind of way if Mac could actually put points on the board for the Patriots, but he is actually absolutely horrible at that too. I firmly believe that this team warts and all would be right where SJH said, basically a little better than they were the last couple years with anyone else as QB.

 

[Jinhocho]

Tom Brady fixes a lot of things, but I'm 100% convinced that if Tom Brady were on this year's Patriots team, the offense would be doing just fine. I think they need serious talent upgrade everywhere on offense, but the last six games the OL has been much better, the run game has been really good, and though obviously the film shows that a guy like Thornton is bad at route running, the idea that Brady couldn't move the ball with Henry and Gesicki and Douglas and even Parker, is a nonstarter idea for me. Brady would have, with this exact team, 7-8 wins minimum.

I've really come around to the idea that Mac (and Zappe, who isn't any better) is the fundamental problem. And this is hard for me to admit because I was very much #teammac when the draft came about and as many of you here know, I've been a pretty staunch defender of him. The crazy thing is, not all his numbers look bad. For example:

On Target % - that is, the percentage of passes thrown that are on target. NE ranks 24th, which obviously is bad. But it's far from the worst in the league. They are even with Baltimore, who is averaging 27.0 points a game (compared with NE's 13.5). They are ahead of Houston and Pittsburgh and Seattle, all teams in the playoff mix, but who are averaging more points a game than the Pats.

Bad Throw % - that is, the percentage of passes thrown that are "bad throws", excluding spikes or intentional throw-aways. NE ranks 24th as well, which, again, is bad, but far from the worst in the league. It's a better percentage (17.6%) than GB, Pit, the Rams, and Houston, among others. It's just a tick behind SF (at 17.1%).

So there are numerous teams whose QBs have thrown a higher percentage of bad passes and who are on target less than Mac is. But Mac just cannot get this team to score points at all, even with an improved running game.

Mac is 20th in passer rating - not good, but at the bottom end of the middle third of the league.

So a bunch of the metrics - basic and advanced - show that while Mac is bad, he's not catastrophically bad. And yet...HE IS. Interestingly, he's even getting help from his receivers on the whole. Mac is #9 in the NFL in receivers getting YAC at 5.4 per completion. And the Pats are #14 in drop %, which isn't elite obviously, but it's slightly better than average. Miami, for example, is at 4.9% drops, while NE is at 4.5%. So the receivers tend to not drop passes very often, and they do a good job getting YAC. But MAC CANNOT SCORE POINTS.

And on top of that, he actively (unintentionally, of course) hurts the team with interceptions, bad sacks, and even pick sixes. Mac is 12th among active QBs in career pick-sixes thrown. And he's only been in the league 3 years. Here's the list of guys above him and the year they entered the league:

1. Stafford - 30 (2009)
2. Dalton - 18 (2011)
3. Carr - 16 (2014)
4. Cousins - 14 (2012)
5. Winston - 12 (2015)
6. Tannehill - 10 (2012)
7. Goff - 9 (2016)
8. Prescott - 9 (2016)
9. Geno Smith - 9 (2013)
10. Gabbert - 7 (2011)
11. Wilson - 7 (2012)
12. Mac Jones - 6 (2021)

Some of that is bad luck. Like, it's one thing to get intercepted. It's another thing for the interceptor to return it for an opposing TD. But still...this is remarkable how often, given how few years he's been in the league, Mac throws a pick six.

So yeah, all this to say, Mac absolutely, positively, 100% needs to be replaced, no questions asked. It was worth the experiment but the experiment is over and it's very much time to move on.

I think one of the reasons he looks somewhat respectable or at least not truly god awful in those categories is that they are basically running an offense that takes almost no risks in the hope of mitigating against his boneheaded plays.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Exactly. He is bad beyond their wildest dreams. For a team that is built to play good defense, run the ball, and win lower scoring games It's near impossible to win with a quarterback creating so many turnover worthy plays and so many turnovers, many of which have resulted in points for the other team. It might even be survivable in a Josh Allen kind of way if Mac could actually put points on the board for the Patriots, but he is actually absolutely horrible at that too. I firmly believe that this team warts and all would be right where SJH said, basically a little better than they were the last couple years with anyone else as QB.

As to the bolded, I think it is questionable that in 2023 you can win consistently with a team built this way. I think this is what a lot of people are frustrated with Bill over. We've seen over the last few years that the best defenses cannot consistently shut down the best offenses, so you have to be able to score points. So yes the QB is a problem, but a roster built to run the ball and play good defense seems like a roster put together by a guy who doesn't really understand where the league is in 2023.

 

[E5 Yaz]

This thread is like a jukebox. I already know what everyone is going to say before they say it. Maybe we could simplify? Just say which track we are playing instead of typing it all out.
A4 or C12, like that?

A guy gets sent to prison and and on the first night, a few minutes after lights out, someone on the block calls out "94" and inmates start laughing.
It gets quiet again, then someone says "137" and it gets a bigger laugh than the previous time.
"What's going on?" the new prisoner asks his cellmate.
"Well, we've been here so long, we've heard every story so often that we just call them out by number."
The newbie decides that he'll give it s shot to try to fit in.
"51," he calls out ... to no response.
He tries again. "114" ... nothing.
Stumped, he turns to see his cellmate sitting on his bunk, just shaking his head.
"Buddy," the cellmate says, "some people* just don't know how to tell a joke."


*yes, Ben, that was the joke

 

[rodderick]

Tom Brady fixes a lot of things, but I'm 100% convinced that if Tom Brady were on this year's Patriots team, the offense would be doing just fine. I think they need serious talent upgrade everywhere on offense, but the last six games the OL has been much better, the run game has been really good, and though obviously the film shows that a guy like Thornton is bad at route running, the idea that Brady couldn't move the ball with Henry and Gesicki and Douglas and even Parker, is a nonstarter idea for me. Brady would have, with this exact team, 7-8 wins minimum.

I've really come around to the idea that Mac (and Zappe, who isn't any better) is the fundamental problem. And this is hard for me to admit because I was very much #teammac when the draft came about and as many of you here know, I've been a pretty staunch defender of him. The crazy thing is, not all his numbers look bad. For example:

On Target % - that is, the percentage of passes thrown that are on target. NE ranks 24th, which obviously is bad. But it's far from the worst in the league. They are even with Baltimore, who is averaging 27.0 points a game (compared with NE's 13.5). They are ahead of Houston and Pittsburgh and Seattle, all teams in the playoff mix, but who are averaging more points a game than the Pats.

Bad Throw % - that is, the percentage of passes thrown that are "bad throws", excluding spikes or intentional throw-aways. NE ranks 24th as well, which, again, is bad, but far from the worst in the league. It's a better percentage (17.6%) than GB, Pit, the Rams, and Houston, among others. It's just a tick behind SF (at 17.1%).

So there are numerous teams whose QBs have thrown a higher percentage of bad passes and who are on target less than Mac is. But Mac just cannot get this team to score points at all, even with an improved running game.

Mac is 20th in passer rating - not good, but at the bottom end of the middle third of the league.

So a bunch of the metrics - basic and advanced - show that while Mac is bad, he's not catastrophically bad. And yet...HE IS. Interestingly, he's even getting help from his receivers on the whole. Mac is #9 in the NFL in receivers getting YAC at 5.4 per completion. And the Pats are #14 in drop %, which isn't elite obviously, but it's slightly better than average. Miami, for example, is at 4.9% drops, while NE is at 4.5%. So the receivers tend to not drop passes very often, and they do a good job getting YAC. But MAC CANNOT SCORE POINTS.

And on top of that, he actively (unintentionally, of course) hurts the team with interceptions, bad sacks, and even pick sixes. Mac is 12th among active QBs in career pick-sixes thrown. And he's only been in the league 3 years. Here's the list of guys above him and the year they entered the league:

1. Stafford - 30 (2009)
2. Dalton - 18 (2011)
3. Carr - 16 (2014)
4. Cousins - 14 (2012)
5. Winston - 12 (2015)
6. Tannehill - 10 (2012)
7. Goff - 9 (2016)
8. Prescott - 9 (2016)
9. Geno Smith - 9 (2013)
10. Gabbert - 7 (2011)
11. Wilson - 7 (2012)
12. Mac Jones - 6 (2021)

Some of that is bad luck. Like, it's one thing to get intercepted. It's another thing for the interceptor to return it for an opposing TD. But still...this is remarkable how often, given how few years he's been in the league, Mac throws a pick six.

So yeah, all this to say, Mac absolutely, positively, 100% needs to be replaced, no questions asked. It was worth the experiment but the experiment is over and it's very much time to move on.

I don't know where are you pulling your numbers from but Mac is currently 28th in passer rating, not 20th, and the only guy still starting who sits behind him is Bryce Young.

 

[BaseballJones]

I don't know where are you pulling your numbers from but Mac is currently 28th in passer rating, not 20th, and the only guy still starting who sits behind him is Bryce Young.

pro-football-reference.com

And I misread it. I don't even know now what I was looking at that had him 20th. LOL

 

[rodderick]

pro-football-reference.com

Well, I mean, it's 28th.

 

[Super Nomario]

As to the bolded, I think it is questionable that in 2023 you can win consistently with a team built this way. I think this is what a lot of people are frustrated with Bill over. We've seen over the last few years that the best defenses cannot consistently shut down the best offenses, so you have to be able to score points. So yes the QB is a problem, but a roster built to run the ball and play good defense seems like a roster put together by a guy who doesn't really understand where the league is in 2023.

In 2023, defense is kinda back. The Chiefs have a better D than offense this year. The best team in points per drive against is Baltimore, who has the best record in the AFC. SF and Dallas are great on both sides of the ball. Offense is down a bit across the board. I think this strategy could have worked if a) Judon and Gonzalez were healthy (the D is only about average now) and b) they were getting anything from the O, like the O was 23rd instead of 31st.

 

[jsinger121]

One thing I will say is that hypothetically if a new coach and GM come in from outside the organization they are probably turning over a minimum of 75% of this roster. There isn’t more than 10-12 guys I’d want to keep on this roster.

 

[BaseballJones]

One thing I will say is that hypothetically if a new coach and GM come in from outside the organization they are probably turning over a minimum of 75% of this roster. There isn’t more than 10-12 guys I’d want to keep on this roster.

Let's play that game. Here's who I'd keep:

Offense (11)
TE - Henry, Brown
RB - Stevenson (but I'd damned well pick up some more RBs as UDFAs or whatever - they need more good players there)
WR - Douglas, Bourne, Boutte
OL - Andrews, Strange, Onwenu, Mafi, Sow

Defense (20)
DL - Barmore, Guy, White, Wise (though cost issues), Ekuale
LB - Judon, Uche, Jennings, Mapu (on potential alone), Bentley, Tavai (he's been good this year)
DB - Jackson (on a cheap contract), Gonzalez, Jonathan Jones, Marcus Jones, Bryant (yes...he's been solid this year), Dugger (though let's see about the cost), Mills, Peppers, Phillips,

Specialists (3)
K - Ryland (sure, keep him, hope he improves)
P - Baringer
ST - Schooler

So for me, that's 34 guys. Which still means replacing 19 of them, or 36% of the roster. Totally need to overhaul the entire QB room. RB needs a massive overhaul. WR needs a lot of help. OL is ok but needs help. The defense is pretty good and I'll be ok with most of them coming back, but cost will be an issue for some of these guys.

 

[Salva135]

In 2023, defense is kinda back. The Chiefs have a better D than offense this year. The best team in points per drive against is Baltimore, who has the best record in the AFC. SF and Dallas are great on both sides of the ball. Offense is down a bit across the board. I think this strategy could have worked if a) Judon and Gonzalez were healthy (the D is only about average now) and b) they were getting anything from the O, like the O was 23rd instead of 31st.

All of those teams have elite offenses that can score at will, and they are not the kind of teams BB is trying to construct.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

you cant “pretty easily” find a kicker in UDFA. From 2013-2022, there were 44 total UDFA kickers making their debut in that 10 year span. Of those, only 24 have more than 25 career field goal attempts and only 12 are on a roster today. There isn’t a single undrafted kicker on a roster today who debuted in 2020, 2 from 2021 (including Matt Amendola who wasn’t on an opening day roster) and one from 2022

here are the undrafted kickers to debut between 2018-2022 with at least one FG attempt

Greg Joseph, Matt McCrane, Brett Maher, Michael Badgley, Joey Slye, Eddy Piniero, Jamie Gillan, Chase McLaughlin, Ty Long, Ryan Santoso, Kaare Vedvik, Elliot Fry, Rodrigo Blankenship, Taylor Russolino, Jonathan Brown, Sergio Castillo, Matthew Wright, Lirim Hajrullahu, Chris Naggar, Riley Patterson, Dominik Eberle, Brian Johnson, Matt Ammendola, Chris Blewitt, Cameron Dicker, Taylor Bertolet, Caleb Shudak, Nick Sciba

Of that entire group, the only one still with his original singing team Dicker

Joseph is on his 3rd team, McLaughlin 7th, Maher 3rd, Piniero 3rd, Patterson 2nd, Ammendola 4th, Slye 4th

of the other active guys with 20+ career FG attempts to debut in the last 10 years, Koo is on his 3rd team (including his brief practice squad stint with the Pats), Fairbairn and Boswell are still with their original team, Lutz and McManus on their 2nd and Santos his 5th

so you’re talking maybe 1-2 guys a year who end up having 5+ year careers and one every 2-4 years who becomes his signing team’s medium or long term kicker.

meanwhile, there’s about 14 kickers who get signed as undrafted rookies every per year (by my count 68 from 2018-2022 but I might have missed a few guys who only made it to minicamp)

so getting a good rookie kicker, even assuming you can identify the Dickers of the world from the Scibas and outbid other teams in UDFA for one, isn’t easy generally let alone as an undrafted player.

there are very few good kickers in the NFL. There might be a number of good undrafted ones in the league but that’s just a numbers game. Most kickers come into the league undrafted and the good ones play for a very long time. Sure, if the Pats pick up an undrafted guy every year, they’re bound to hit on one But chances are it won’t be the first or second or third guy they try and suffering through a bad kicker can ruin your season.

It wasn’t that long ago people thought Quinn Nordin was going to be useful when he was an undrafted guy in camp. He hasn’t exactly worked out well.

I'm not sure what that proves other than UDFA kickers hit or don't hit at rates comparable to drafted kickers, and they move around a lot?

Here are the drafted kickers since 2013:

2013: Caleb Sturgis (drafted in the 5th round, played for 3 teams, out of football by 2019)
Dustin Hopkins: drafted by Buffalo in the 6th round, never kicked for them, became a rookie in 2015, now on his 3rd team

2014: Zach Hocker (drafted by Washington in the 7th, never kicked for them, played in 8 games for 2 other teams and was out of football in a year)
Nate Freese (drafted in the 7th by Detroit, went 3/7 on FGA in 3 games, never kicked again)

2015: Zero kickers drafted

2016: Roberto Aguayo (drafted in the 2nd round, kicked for one season in TB, out of football)

2017: Jake Elliott (drafted in the 5th by Cincy, never kicked for them, now in Philly)
Zane Gonzalez (drafted in the 7th, kicked for 3 teams, out of football after 2021)
Harrison Butker (drafted in the 7th, still kicking for KC)

2018: Daniel Carlson, drafted in the 5th by the Vikings, played 7 games for them, then went to Oakland where he's been since)
Jason Sanders, drafted in the 7th by Miami, still there)

2019: Matt Gay, drafted in the 5th by Tampa Bay, now on his 3rd team since
Austin Seibert: drafted in the 7th, played for 4 teams, not sure if he's still on the Jets roster/PS

2020: Tyler Bass (drafted in the 6th by Buffalo, still there)
Justin Rohrwasser (Nazi, drafted in the 5th by the Pats, never kicked in the NFL)
Sam Sloman (drafted in the 7th, kicked a total of 13 FGA for 2 teams, out of league)

2021: Evan McPherson, still with Cinci after being drafted in the 5th

2022: Cade York, 4th rounder, kicked one season in CLE, now on Giants PS


That's it, that's the whole list. Is the opportunity cost of giving up a 4th, 5th round pick worth the hit rate on these guys vs. bringing in a steady supply of UDFA's and FA's to try to find one? I personally think not, unless you get really lucky. I think Butker and Sanders are the only guys still on the teams that drafted them aside from guys still on their rookie deals, and both of them were 7th round picks, not 5th rounders?

 

[DJnVa]

Yeah, I’m shocked an old player from thirty years ago thinks his bad team would kick this bad team’s ass. Weird context to lean into that trope (usually you hear old players from great teams wax poetic about how things were), but I guess it’s provocative/entertaining.

I do find it interesting that a guy employed by the team would be so critical. I guess the film breakdowns with BB would be really awkward this year, if they were still doing them.

 

[Jinhocho]

As to the bolded, I think it is questionable that in 2023 you can win consistently with a team built this way. I think this is what a lot of people are frustrated with Bill over. We've seen over the last few years that the best defenses cannot consistently shut down the best offenses, so you have to be able to score points. So yes the QB is a problem, but a roster built to run the ball and play good defense seems like a roster put together by a guy who doesn't really understand where the league is in 2023.

Yep. Well we don't know because the last time that worked was 2 years ago and it got them to the playoffs with a lot of work to do on the team. How do you know it won't work if you had a competent QB?

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Yep. Well we don't know because the last time that worked was 2 years ago and it got them to the playoffs with a lot of work to do on the team. How do you know it won't work if you had a competent QB?

I don't know that it wouldn't work, clearly they would have at least a few more wins with a competent QB. Whether that would have been enough to get into the playoffs, I don't know.

The point of my post is that if it is true that Bill built the roster on the premise that they can contend by playing defense and running the ball, I get why Patriots fans might be frustrated with that approach, and that frustration extends beyond just the shitty QB play we've seen this year. They have a QB on a rookie contract, they should have been able to put together a better roster, especially on offense, than they have.

 

[Bernie Carbohydrate]

Well, I mean, it's 28th.

But he leads the league is PSTI%, which measures the number of sacks prevented by throwing an interception.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

A guy gets sent to prison and and on the first night, a few minutes after lights out, someone on the block calls out "94" and inmates start laughing.
It gets quiet again, then someone says "137" and it gets a bigger laugh than the previous time.
"What's going on?" the new prisoner asks his cellmate.
"Well, we've been here so long, we've heard every story so often that we just call them out by number."
The newbie decides that he'll give it s shot to try to fit in.
"51," he calls out ... to no response.
He tries again. "114" ... nothing.
Stumped, he turns to see his cellmate sitting on his bunk, just shaking his head.
"Buddy," the cellmate says, "some people* just don't know how to tell a joke."


*yes, Ben, that was the joke

I love that one. "Your delivery [or timing] sucks" is how I know it.

 

[Toe Nash]

I mean, it's true, he did lead a scoring drive, and got robbed of another when Ryland shanked a gimme FG. They at least showed a little something with Zappe, they showed absolutely nothing with Mac. Yes, this is like arguing if rotten eggs taste better than spoiled milk.

You're so dug in on this. Zappe didn't throw past the LOS on the TD drive, this is silly. Mac would have "led a scoring drive" if they had tried to kick a 53-yard FG instead of punting from the Giants' 37.

 

[sezwho]

I love that one. "Your delivery [or timing] sucks" is how I know it.

Me too. The version I know has one of them losing their minds laughing ‘he’d never heard that one before’

 

[tims4wins]

You're so dug in on this. Zappe didn't throw past the LOS on the TD drive, this is silly. Mac would have "led a scoring drive" if they had tried to kick a 53-yard FG instead of punting from the Giants' 37.

Or thrown a godawful pick taking points off the board. Mac is a train wreck.

 

[luckiestman]

Or thrown a godawful pick taking points off the board. Mac is a train wreck.

I was just looking at the stats page someone linked. Mac's interceptions are nuts. Howell for example has 141 more pass attempts but only one more INT. That's the story of his season and the Pats record right there.

 

[Arroyoyo]

There are now tickets for $40 on StubHub for this weekend’s game against the Chargers.

 

[Toe Nash]

Or thrown a godawful pick taking points off the board. Mac is a train wreck.

Yes they both suck, that is what I was saying. Zappe also threw a godawful pick when he tried to go downfield. Either of them could probably dink and dunk their way to 10 points a game if they made zero risky passes.

JFC this board is going to be unreadable until the end of the season.

 

[tims4wins]

Yes they both suck, that is what I was saying. Zappe also threw a godawful pick when he tried to go downfield. Either of them could probably dink and dunk their way to 10 points a game if they made zero risky passes.

JFC this board is going to be unreadable until the end of the season.

Zappe got a half and led a TD drive and a FG drive. 10 points.

Mac got a half and didn't score.

Zappe was not good. Like, at all. But he was still much better than Mac IMO.

 

[BaseballJones]

Yes they both suck, that is what I was saying. Zappe also threw a godawful pick when he tried to go downfield. Either of them could probably dink and dunk their way to 10 points a game if they made zero risky passes.

JFC this board is going to be unreadable until the end of the season.

LONG way to go still. Buckle up. LOL

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yes they both suck, that is what I was saying. Zappe also threw a godawful pick when he tried to go downfield. Either of them could probably dink and dunk their way to 10 points a game if they made zero risky passes.

JFC this board is going to be unreadable until the end of the season.

We just saw that Mac couldn't even do that.

Apparently the Pats' brass has seen enough too, because it sure looks like Zappe is going to start on Sunday. I'm sure he will stink, but at the very least they are finally trying something different.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

I think Zappe with a full week of practice with the starters will look better than Mac has recently. (Not a high bar to clear.)

 

[Justthetippett]

I think Zappe with a full week of practice with the starters will look better than Mac has recently. (Not a high bar to clear.)

What we know about Zappe is that when he's had a full week of first team reps and a gameplan installed for him he's been good. Obviously a small sample, but it will be interesting to see if that happens again (and maddening). When he comes in cold he's very bad.

 

[Cellar-Door]

What we know about Zappe is that when he's had a full week of first team reps and a gameplan installed for him he's been good. Obviously a small sample, but it will be interesting to see if that happens again (and maddening). When he comes in cold he's very bad.

I think what we know about Zappe is that he lacks the physical tools to be an NFL starter, and likely the mental ones too... but if he's playing against a terrible defense and his own defense is dominating you can scheme something up.

(worth noting he was as good in relief against GB as he was in the starts against the Lions and Browns).

I really don't think his success and failure is tied to whether he starts, it was tied to a 3 game stretch where the offense was playing pretty well, the defense was incredible and they ran into some teams with both bad defenses and a ton of injuries.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

I still think he will play better than Mac.

 

[OneRedDred]

There are now tickets for $40 on StubHub for this weekend’s game against the Chargers.

Not at all surprised when you factor in the weather forecast. Rain showers, temps in the upper 40s. Who wants to go watch the product on the field in good weather, let alone bad.

 

[Buck Showalter]

Not at all surprised when you factor in the weather forecast. Rain showers, temps in the upper 40s. Who wants to go watch the product on the field in good weather, let alone bad.

Imagine the final game against the Jets?

$15-20 for sure.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I still think he will play better than Mac.

You're not alone in that belief. And the good news is that it sounds like we're about to see a test of that theory against a 4-7 team with the 8th worst scoring defense. At least Bill won't be throwing him to the wolves.

 

[Justthetippett]

Imagine the final game against the Jets?

$15-20 for sure.

Unless there's more smoke that that's BBs last game, in which case folks will want to be there.

 

[NickEsasky]

There are now tickets for $40 on StubHub for this weekend’s game against the Chargers.

they're going to need to pay me more than $40 to watch this shitshow. That won't even cover parking.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Exactly the moment I was thinking about. Chills, man.

Of all the games I’ve been to, which is provably close to 100, that game was the craziest game I can remember outside of The Tuck Rule game, which wasn’t a crazy game but one of those single moments.

Down 14 not once, but twice, the WR pass, ineligible receiver and it all led directly into Deflategate because the first game ran late.

 

[SamCassellsStones]

I do find it interesting that a guy employed by the team would be so critical. I guess the film breakdowns with BB would be really awkward this year, if they were still doing them.

I believe they are still doing them, but only after wins (which, this year, is the functional equivalent of not doing them).

 

[tims4wins]

Of all the games I’ve been to, which is provably close to 100, that game was the craziest game I can remember outside of The Tuck Rule game, which wasn’t a crazy game but one of those single moments.

Down 14 not once, but twice, the WR pass, ineligible receiver and it all led directly into Deflategate because the first game ran late.

That was the next week that the NFCCG ran late and led to DFG.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Of all the games I’ve been to, which is provably close to 100, that game was the craziest game I can remember outside of The Tuck Rule game, which wasn’t a crazy game but one of those single moments.

Down 14 not once, but twice, the WR pass, ineligible receiver and it all led directly into Deflategate because the first game ran late.

Best playoff game in the entire run. Comeback game against a high quality opponent with a great atmosphere and memorable plays.

 

[johnmd20]

That was the next week that the NFCCG ran late and led to DFG.

Seriously. Deflategate was post Indy.

Unforgivable error.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

That was the next week that the NFCCG ran late and led to DFG.

That’s right. Harbaugh called the Colts after he was embarrassed by the “they should know the rules” comment by the Pats after the game and ratted them out. Which of course Harbaugh denies.

 

[Archer1979]

For me, it's BB or bust. It's easy and justifiable to pin the drafting and lack of development of Mac Jones on Coach Bill, but the question is really, is BB the best option to get the Pats out of this hole. I'd say yes. That said, if he drafts a non-QB at number 3, you may see Bob Kraft lunge at him Frank Langella-style a la Kevin Costner on Draft Day. So unless Belichick has a pancake-eating MFer on the horn when the Pats number gets called, Kraft would be well justified.

There's really nothing left for this season other than hosing out the remaining embers and getting to work on how to rebuild via draft, trade, or FA.

That said, I'd really like them to hire a GM-type to help out if for no other reason than to keep Bill off the phione with Nick Saban.

 

[tims4wins]

That’s right. Harbaugh called the Colts after he was embarrassed by the “they should know the rules” comment by the Pats after the game and ratted them out.

Correct. That was the tie-in from the Ravens game to DFG.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Piling on here, I was at that Ravens game as well and it is by far the best football game I've ever been to at Gillette. I've posted this before but I was buying a beer and had my back turned to the field for the double pass, the crowd went nuts and I knew I had missed something epic.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Coolest thing about the Edelman pass was (if I'm remembering right), the Patriots had called it earlier in the year, but someone (might have actually been Hogan not Amendola) signaled out of it because the defense wasn't right. So, they didn't have to show it and had it in the bag for the right moment. I seem to remember that was in a Do Your Job type post-season review video.

Remember the days of situational awareness?

Edit -- actually I guess Hogan wasn't a Patriot yet so it must have been Amendola.

 

[tims4wins]

It was in the Chiefs game, and they actually scored on a slant to LaFell on the play.

 

[Bergs]

Coolest thing about the Edelman pass was (if I'm remembering right), the Patriots had called it earlier in the year, but someone (might have actually been Hogan not Amendola) signaled out of it because the defense wasn't right. So, they didn't have to show it and had it in the bag for the right moment. I seem to remember that was in a Do Your Job type post-season review video.

Remember the days of situational awareness?

Edit -- actually I guess Hogan wasn't a Patriot yet so it must have been Amendola.

My recollection was that it was Jules who called out of it.

It was in the Chiefs game, and they actually scored on a slant to LaFell on the play.

Was that the same game?

 

[RedOctober3829]

The Patriots have been flexed out of a prime time home game versus the face of the league and with the possibility of the biggest global superstar in attendance. This is the current state of the franchise.

 

[tims4wins]

My recollection was that it was Jules who called out of it.




Was that the same game?

Yes, it is in Do Your Job.

Time-linked here

View: https://youtu.be/JdnWmKnUcWg?si=Uh9WwwUfbEzSiGmQ&t=769

 

[Buck Showalter]

The Patriots have been flexed out of a prime time home game versus the face of the league and with the possibility of the biggest global superstar in attendance. This is the current state of the franchise.

You're going to make us cry --- knock it off.