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The Nation's Tears: Volume II

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by jmcc5400, Feb 5, 2017.

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  1. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    19,922
    I don't understand. They were still great in 1995-1998, then they lost their Hall of Fame QB to an injury when they were 2-1. There was no decline whatsoever. No fade into mediocrity. They were great, then they weren't, immediately, due to the QB situation.

    Edit: oh and Jerry Rice moved on after 1999
     
  2. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    26,207
    Give us a Hall-of-Fame Steve Young successor to TB and I like our chances.
     
  3. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    37,255
    Wasn’t Young scooped up from another team that had no idea what they had because they sucked?

    Would anyone dare trading a QB to B.B., I wonder...
     
  4. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    26,207
    He got the hell beat out of him in Tampa Bay for 2 seasons. Walsh knew what he had — he pushed Joe Montana out to make room for him.
     
  5. Briz

    Briz Member SoSH Member

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    I'll add to SJH's point as well as further address the "weak division" thing. Team rankings.com has every teams win % outside their division since 2003. I picked 2003 since it is as close to when the pat's dominance started as I could get. NE is #1 with 77.5% win percentage and Pitt is #2. But how do the other divisions look? Well, I took their rankings (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/trend/win_trends/non_division?range=yearly_since_2003), pulled out the rankings from each team in each division and averaged their overall position as well as percentage to see how the AFC East stacks up since 2003. The numbers from highest win % to lowest:

    Division; Average win %; Average overall rank (Out of 32 teams, lower is better)
    AFC East; 54%; 16.25
    NFC East; 52%; 13.5
    NFC South; 51%; 14.75
    AFC North; 51%; 13.75
    NFC North; 49%; 17
    AFC West; 48%; 17.25
    AFC South; 48%; 18
    NFC West; 45%; 21.5

    Ok, so maybe this makes the point right? AFC East has the highest average win % but is middle of the pack in overall rank. So the Pats high win % out of the division is inflating the number, right? Well, let's pull the Pats out of it. But to do so, I think the only appropriate way to look at that information is to pull the #1 team out of each division as well so that the numbers are somewhat handicapped correctly. So pulling out the Pats, Steelers, Indy, Philly, Den, GB, Atl and Sea the numbers look like:

    Division; Average Win %; Average overall rank (out of 32 teams still, lower is better)
    NFC East 50% 16.67
    NFC South 49% 17
    AFC North 47% 17.67
    NFC North 47% 20.33
    AFC East 46% 21.33
    AFC West 45% 21
    AFC South 44% 23
    NFC West 42% 25.67

    Ok fine, the AFC East dropped. But that division dropped to the middle of the pack, not to the bottom. So really, outside the Pats, the AFC East is an average NFL division that the Pats just beat up on a yearly basis. Just like they beat up the rest of the NFL with an absurd 77.5% win percentage outside of this division. So really, I don't think the argument that the AFC East is weak is really that valid. It is an average division that has had a tremendous team for a long time.
     
  6. wnyghost

    wnyghost lurker

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    149
    Nice job answering my question with data. The Pats are beating the shit out of everyone.

    It is still amazing to me that someone in the division couldn't catch lightning in a bottle one year.
     
  7. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    The years to do it would have been 2005 and 2009, when the Pats were 10-6 both seasons. In those seasons, here's how they did against the AFC East:

    2005 AFC East (Pats' record against them)
    New England, 10-6
    Miami, 9-7 (1-1)
    Buffalo, 5-11 (2-0)
    NY Jets, 4-12 (2-0)
    PATS in AFCE: 5-1

    2009 AFC East (Pats' record against them)
    New England, 10-6
    NY Jets, 9-7 (1-1)
    Miami, 7-9 (1-1)
    Buffalo, 6-10 (2-0)
    PATS in AFCE: 4-2

    Those were the two years when other teams in the division realistically had a chance (not counting 2002 or 2008). The Pats were, even with Brady, vulnerable, but they still took it to the division.
     
  8. heavyde050

    heavyde050 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Injuries also helped make that decision much easier.
     
  9. brandonchristensen

    brandonchristensen mad photochops SoSH Member

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    The Jets sorta did in 2010.
     
  10. streeter88

    streeter88 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    926
    More like a firefly.


    Edit: I know they beat the Pats in the divisional round, but their "lightning" literally lasted a season. And then they went back to being mediocre.
     
    #2410 streeter88, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  11. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    6,464
    In 2009's playoffs, they won in Cincy (as the Pats lost at home), then went out and beat 13-3 San Diego, then took a lead into halftime of the AFCCG against an in-his-prime Manning-Dungy team (who were 14-0 that year until the Jets themselves went and beat them in week 16). I'd call that Rexian lightning.
     
  12. steveluck7

    steveluck7 Member SoSH Member

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    2,727
    That win against the colts was against Curtis Painter (or whatever scrub back up qb the colts had at the time). If memory serves, had the Colts played straight up and started Manning (and won) the Jets would have missed the playoffs.
    The following year they also qualified for the playoffs thanks the Detroit letting Suh attempt an XP early in the season
     
  13. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    32,887
    Isn't that the definition of "lightning"?
     
  14. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    As long as the Kraft's own the team, I don't see this happening as they are extremely savvy and understand that in order to keep rear ends in the seats and the shops, restaurants and hotels at Patriot Place full, there needs to be a competitive team on the field.

    I had season tickets from 1986 through the Rod Rust 1-15 "I'm proud of my men" disaster of a season and as the team got worse during that time, the stadium was less and less full each year.

    Fans around here won't just blindly go along with the program if the product on the field is piss poor.
     
  15. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    19,922
    I don't disagree, but some level of mediocrity will likely happen. For instance the Steelers have generally been great since the early 90s. But they had a stretch from 1998-2000 with records of 7-9, 6-10, and 9-7. Since 2006 they have had three 8-8 seasons, and one 9-7 season. I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen in Foxboro. Far from piss poor, but just mediocre.
     
  16. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    Understood; this 17 year run has been incredible, safe to say I'll never see anything like this ever again from the Patriots or any Boston team for that matter. The last 7 years alone; seven strait AFCCG's, four trips to the Super Bowl, two wins, unreal, then throw in the other ten and you've got five AFCCG's, four trips to the super bowl, three wins.

    Unbelievable.

    As has been said in a sports related movie, all things end badly or they wouldn't end.
     
  17. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    Bruins fans will, but Pats fans won't.
     
  18. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    That isn’t true. You used to be able to score many $5 tickets back in the mid-2000 years after the lockout but before they got good again.
     
  19. drleather2001

    drleather2001 given himself a skunk spot SoSH Member

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    “Cocktail” is a sports-related movie?
     
  20. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    It's Leather's Law.
     
  21. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    I'm with you, Leather.
     
  22. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    Had it confused with Jerry Maguire; you've seen one Cruise movie, you've seen them all.
     
  23. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Unforgivable error. You do not complete me.
     
  24. drleather2001

    drleather2001 given himself a skunk spot SoSH Member

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    24,899
    Do not show him the money.

    I bet his head only weighs 7 pounds.
     
  25. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    5,497
    Gee, you had me at hello.

    Is this the movie where he plays football for Ampipe High, the one where he keeps getting killed or the one where he can't handle the truth, I'm so confused and on Oscar night of all things too.
     
  26. Salem's Lot

    Salem's Lot Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog! SoSH Member

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    5,262
    When I bought my season tickets in 2008 we had our pick of 85% of the seats in our section. It was that bad. Even after they won the cup many Boston fans who were old enough to see Bobby Orr play still hated Jeremy Jacobs and wouldn't step foot in the building.
     
  27. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    I’m hearing “step foot” a lot lately instead of “set foot”. Is the former taking over from the latter?
     
  28. SumnerH

    SumnerH Malt Liquor Picker Dope

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    Google n-grams says that “step foot” has increased a lot since 1980 but is still pretty uncommon and is outnumbered 20:1 or more by “set foot”.

    The earliest attestation I found of “step foot” in this sense is 1813 by Washington Irving.
     
  29. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    47,947
    That’s what I thought, Mr. database.
     
  30. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    12,483
  31. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    24,720
    Anyone want some Pats gear?

    LINK
     
  32. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    16,840
    Curran doing excellent work here:

    https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/hey-nfl-just-cut-chase-and-ban-patriots
     
  33. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    7,750
  34. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    8,912
  35. DavidTai

    DavidTai Member SoSH Member

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    630
    Either he's disproven gas law, or the judges know nothing about it.
     
  36. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    31,705
    Based on what I read all he proved is that he, and his mom and sister, can throw deflated footballs further than fully inflated ones.

    But, he's a kid. And his favorite player is Jameis Winston, so he's having a rough go of it.
     
  37. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    7,750
    I’d have more respect for the kid if his project was on something crazy like chemtrails or global warming.
     
  38. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    9,836

    The stupidest thing about people complaining about the Patriots having an unfair advantage in OT because Slater is good at calling "Heads" and Brady is good at late-game TD drives is that if they just listened to Belichick - who has always advocated for a set period of time to play OT with no "sudden death" - both teams would indeed get the ball (unless the receiving team puts together a ten-minute drive). (The easy solution I think is a full 10 minute overtime, and if it's tied after ten minutes you play sudden death and the team that kicked off in the first OT receives the ball in OT2.) Of course they would only implement something akin to Belichick's idea if they forget he proposed it first and if they think it would somehow be a dig at New England.
     
  39. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Dungy picks the Rams, 17-10
     
  40. nattysez

    nattysez Member SoSH Member

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  41. genoasalami

    genoasalami Member SoSH Member

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    1,674
    He predicted a Patriots win here at my station...
     
  42. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Huh, I heard it on either Dan Patrick or Rich Eisen this morning
     
  43. genoasalami

    genoasalami Member SoSH Member

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    He was a guest of our sports guy ... said he's picking Patriots.
     
  44. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Another tweak is that the transition from OT to OT2 is just like the first to second quarter transition. No possession change, so The coin flip is a total non factor. Keep OT2 sudden death.

    I’m OK with the current system however. Half of the roster is for defense, and if the team that loses the coin flip can’t stop an opening TD, they don’t really deserve to win.
     
  45. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    24,720
    FWIW, Tony says a game very similar to the AFCCG, with Brady outdeueling Goff in the 4th quarter. Last minute of clip.
     
  46. simplyeric

    simplyeric aggressively nonsensical SoSH Member

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    11,288
    Shouldn’t this be Volume 3?
    Just the sheer recurrence of it adds to the tears....
     
  47. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    16,840
    Given what we are likely to experience the next 10 days, I am all for a Volume 3 should some enterprising young mod so choose to make it so ...
     
  48. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I enjoy Tony Dungy's salty tears for even having to comment on another Patriots Super Bowl.
     
  49. normstalls

    normstalls Member SoSH Member

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    I heard what you heard, it was on Dan Patrick's show yesterday. It was basically a caller saying Dungy said that, but he never actually said it. The caller was massively confused.
     
  50. scott bankheadcase

    scott bankheadcase Member SoSH Member

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    618
    Really? I read the comments (the inital post is dumb), and the vast majority of them say either:
    1. It's LeBron vs. Jordan and it's too hard to compare eras. Or
    2. I love the niners, but we have to admit Brady is the best. But it's ok, he's a niners fan too

    I think this is the most sane comments you could read on an opposing fanbase's message board. I mean there's a bunch that even call out deflategate as being wrong or just stupid.
     
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