The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
- Start date
I think that most people acknowledge this. The bigger issue you have is the man making the decisions regarding offensive personnel and staff.
If the playmakers aren’t good enough, that falls on Bill, who for about the sixth time has tried to recreate the two TE magic he had a decade ago.
You say this like it's a bad thing. The two TE system is the best offensive formation in football.
If you can pass out of it. You need the right mix of TEs. I am not sure who they thought would be the in-line guy vs the move TE but there was no synergy with that mix.
Early career Andrew Luck.
Early career Russell Wilson.
Alex Smith in Kansas City.
Kirk Cousins in Washington.
Lamar Jackson.
All had top 10 seasons when their lines and WR's were dog shit, but - other than Cousins - probably goes to emphasize your point. Is it doable to put up a top 10 type of season with below average offensive pieces? Sure, but its rare.
It also drove Luck into early retirement, snapped Smith's leg in half, and required ridiculous athleticism from Wilson/Jackson to run for their lives every other play. It certainly isn't a sustainable method for creating good offenses, yet the Pats line and wide receivers have sucked for the last 3 seasons.
I’m not sure I’d call any of their receiving corps “dog shit” except maybe Lamar who is a unique case given his running ability. Looking at the guys they had to throw to, I’d swap the Pats skill guys for any of those groups, no question.
Andrew Luck had late career Reggie Wayne who put up almost 1400 yards Luck’s rookie year and young TY Hilton… either one would be the clear #1 option on the Pats right now.
Smith had a pu pu platter of mediocre receivers over the years, but his best years he had either peak Jamaal Charles or young Kelce and Jeremy Maclin. Even before Kelce was Kelce, him plus Maclin is a dramatic improvement over Hunter Henry and Devante Parker or Kendrick Bourne.
I look at the names Cousins played with and am shocked to see Pierre Garçon somehow put up a 1300 yard season. Late-20s Desean Jackson is an upgrade on any Pats WR…
It's hard to find an exact apples to apples. Some of their WR corps may have been slightly better, but their lines were worse. Yes, Smith had Charles, but the Pats RBs were very good last season as well.
Discounting Jackson and Wilson because of the athleticism kind of misses the point. Of the 5 examples I gave, 2 of them (Wilson/Jackson) needed to be elite athletes to succeed. Luck & Smith were both superior athletes for QBs as well. Only Cousins breaks that norm (and regarding your point, in 2015, Garcon had less than 800 yards and Jackson less than 600.)
In the case of all 4 guys more athletic than Jones, injuries significantly derailed or ended their careers (I'm putting Jackson in that category - it isn't "if" for him, but "when"). The point wasn't that DoTB was wrong - I just wanted to look over the past decade for fun - but that the few examples I gave do more to confirm his point than detract from it.
Yeah, 2021 O-line was near universally considered one of the best in the league.
Last year the line was terrible early, then settled into being pretty decent (PFF had them 11th which seemed way too high to me, but they were more averagish by the end of the year, just the rest of the offense and playcalling was trash)
Start this year has been very bad, we'll see how they look when their guards are healthy and get some reps, but there are concerning signs.
Edit- honestly I think it's just that the O-lines here were so so good for so long, and a lot of people don't watch the really bad teams in detail enough to realize how bad some other lines were last year.
I said it in the gamethread, but I'll say it here too:
"That last pass was the one. It's the last play I can give Mac as an excuse. There is no more excuses for what he does.
He has no future in this league, he's a shitty NFL QB, and I'd rather tank the season then watch him make one single more pass.
I wish teams would sell off their short term assets for long term gains, because this team has no near term future. Tank and pray you can get some talent in the draft."
"That last pass was the one. It's the last play I can give Mac as an excuse. There is no more excuses for what he does.
He has no future in this league, he's a shitty NFL QB, and I'd rather tank the season then watch him make one single more pass.
I wish teams would sell off their short term assets for long term gains, because this team has no near term future. Tank and pray you can get some talent in the draft."
The problem with Mac isn’t his arm. It is everything else.
View: https://twitter.com/mlombardinfl/status/1708600326050271525?s=46&t=LP8gEhEZKXGKYp3VJskNKA
Mike Lombardi: I thought when Jones was coming out he would play smart, process the offense quickly and be accurate. I’m wrong on all three. Too many games look the same.
His uniform number, 10, stands for "ten cent head." He was "seeing ghosts" against Dallas, panicked in the pocket even when the pressure wasn't really there, and relying on the cannon arm he doesn't have to bail himself out. He began this game throwing the ball well, but making poor decisions, and then he started making bad throws.
View: https://twitter.com/mlombardinfl/status/1708600326050271525?s=46&t=LP8gEhEZKXGKYp3VJskNKA
Mike Lombardi: I thought when Jones was coming out he would play smart, process the offense quickly and be accurate. I’m wrong on all three. Too many games look the same.
His uniform number, 10, stands for "ten cent head." He was "seeing ghosts" against Dallas, panicked in the pocket even when the pressure wasn't really there, and relying on the cannon arm he doesn't have to bail himself out. He began this game throwing the ball well, but making poor decisions, and then he started making bad throws.
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If youll admit that "always been terrible" is hyperbolic because his rookie year (when he had a good line) he put up perfectly average numbers, and pretty good numbers for a rookie...Ill admit to wanting him to have no future with Patriots. Can we meet halfway?
ps - WRT to a recent gamethread post, I dont think I was one of those people you were referring to, but if by chance I was shoot me a PM to hash it out
I've admitted several times that he had a good first half to two -thirds of a season his rookie year.
However as soon as defenses figured him out, he's been terrible ever since. His last handful of games on 2021 (including playoffs) have left a lot to be desired.
So you agree...he hasnt always been terrible! Ha! Kidding aside it's a fair response, and as soon as I read it I remembered you writing stuff along those lines in the past.
Mac has been terrible today. His OL is awful and he has no dynamic weapons. It's all bad. I feel like we can trace ALL of this "weapons" stuff (maybe even Brady leaving) to BB not drafting Deebo b/c of a silly tweet.
You guys complain about Mac, but Joe Burrow - who everyone agrees is a top QB and has Chase and Higgins - only threw for 165 yards today, a figure Mac will surely pass. Makes you think.
I’d say today puts him in one foot out the door territory. He’ll probably start next week, but he’ll be one more performance like this from losing the job, and if Zappe significantly outperforms him in practice this week, it might even already be over.
It’s time to move on. I’ve been open to seeing what he can do, but the upside isn’t there and the floor is collapsing. What are we worried about at this point? Even if he’s ok, you don’t pay ok QBs starting money.
What team has a worse QB situation top to bottom than the Pats right now.
The Jets. Yes Mac is better than Zach. Who else? Mac sucks and Zappe isn't any better. It is horrendous.
The Jets. Yes Mac is better than Zach. Who else? Mac sucks and Zappe isn't any better. It is horrendous.
Jones stinks. The team stinks. The guy who assembled it is stuck in the past.
I want to see Cunningham
I want to see Cunningham
Atlanta- Ridder is way worse than Mac, Heineke stinks too
Tampa?- Depends how you feel about Baker but he's probably worse on the whole than Mac
Pittsburght- I think Pickett is terrible, Trubisky is a real backup though tI guess.
I gave all the rookies a pass, as we always should.
Belichick would need a decade to get the win record with Mac under center. I’ve been hoping for it since the off season, but I really want this team to lose out and get Caleb. It’s our only hope.
No he wouldn’t and you should feel ridiculous to for saying it.
Joe Burrow is also playing through a well documented injury and has three years of tape suggesting he’s an elite QB playing injured.
I'm kinda sad you guys actually thought I was serious. Although arguments not dissimilar to that one were made ad nauseum in this thread, so I get it.
The same? I don’t think the weapons are great or even good but Brady had terrible weapons at times and he still won a lot of games and even playoff games. 2006 comes to mind. Mac is not good and nothing around him is good but I cannot say Brady would do the same in this situation
Its fair to say that we have seen enough to know Mac Jones cannot win in the NFL without a lot of help. Unfortunately, if you want to compete for championships, the bar is a lot higher than that. QB1s, ideally, are difference makers (they can win despite subpar OL play and few weapons) and Jones is not that, at least not now.
FWIW, I knew you were delivering the ironic straight line.
And it is sad. Like, not as a pejorative: There is much sadness.
View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1708631863013654841
Mac Jones: Disappointed in myself. Wasn’t my day.
Mac Jones: Disappointed in myself. Wasn’t my day.
In Mac's 35 starts, the Pats have averaged just under 21 offensive points per game (with a median of 18.5). This includes 54, 45 and 50 point showings in Mac's rookie year versus the Jets, Browns and Jaguars.
Since the offseason after Mac's rookie year (his last 18 starts), the Pats have averaged less than 17 offensive points in his starts.
It's impossible to sustain success in today's NFL with such meager offensive output.
We can blame the offensive coordinators, the plodding receivers and a porous O-line all we want, but it's pretty clear that Mac is also heavily responsible -- even when he has clean pockets and open targets downfield -- given his subpar mechanics, post-snap reads, ball velocity and decision-making. His attitude also leaves something to be desired.
The best thing that can happen is a total flameout and Belichick gets another shot next year with good picks and lots of cap space. At best (and I mean everything breaks right, which is pretty clearly not the case) this team is a fringe playoff contender, which really kind of sucks and is a road to nowhere. It's time to reset.
BB says 'there was no point leaving him out there so I took him out.' Doesn't used the word 'benched.'
Disagree about Baker 100%. He’s playing pretty well in Tampa and he’s better than Mac.
It also sounded like he said "yeah" when asked if Mac would start next week, but I'm not 100% sure.
Burrow has been to a Super Bowl and AFC championship game. Marc Jones will be lucky to play in the Toliet Bowl. Thats a take off on an old joke Glenn Foley the BC and Jets Qb said about Rutgers football in the 90s. Anyway hopefully you were joking or being sarcastic. I didn't see LOL though.
Anyone who compares Burrow to Jones needs head examined. Maybe you took too many boxing punches.