Not true. I agree I would have rather drafted Fields and think he would do better in this situation than Chicago, but at this point he's pretty trash too. Fun to root for in college though.
I liked Fields too, and I'm still not 100% that he would be trash if he had landed basically anywhere besides Chicago. How many current QBs would look good in the Bears offense?
I actually wanted Fields because I think Fields can do everything Mac does, as well as some things Mac can't do. I agree about Chicago - that team is just chewing up Fields and spitting him out in a way only Chicago can do.
Not the same, sure, but seemingly a lot better to have 4 different 1st round WR talents to throw to, no? Is there any Patriots player you wouldn't trade for Smith or Waddle straight up (obviously, Jeudy is hurt, and Ruggs...will not be playing football any time soon)? My point is not "Mac sucks", because I don't think he does. My point is that he, and this offense, do need at least one downfield threat in order to succeed.
Sure, I agree the offense would be better with elite talent. But... people (as you did) point to his college throws and say "see he can do that in the NFL" and the point is that they are not the same throws even if he had elite WRs, and you can't translate one to the other (see Fields, Justin for a non-Mac example).
How are most of those throws that I posted by Tua and Jalen not the same throws? They're literally the same people, with the same teammates, running almost the same routes and with the same separation?
If you are curious to know what Tua is doing that makes him special the last year and a half, I would strongly encourage you to watch any of the QB School’s YouTube videos on him from this season.
The points about his footwork in that video really seem spot on. When he pops up at the back of his drop I also think he loses the timing on the routes. Mac often seems late getting the ball where it needs to go, which is generally attributed to his arm strength. To overcome that, the rest of his technique, including his footwork, has to be perfect. There's definitely room for improvement there.
This is well put. From my seat on the couch too many of his throws are late. Not by much, but by just enough that he and his throws look creaky.
This is exactly right.
I know they have Waddle and Hill, etc, but swap the Pats' protection with the Dolphins', and let's see how each offense performs.
Strange, don't often see stats that actually match what you see with the naked eye when watching games as well as this does.
My takeaway from the QB school video was that the footwork at the top of his drop actually delays his release, which may then make him more prone to pressure. (I went down the YouTube QB footwork rabbit hole earlier and Brady was just a damn ballerina, with an excellent wide base on his drops.) That said, I would not dispute the general point that he's lacked protection, which has an overall negative impact on what he can and can't do.
One problem is that the offensive line has given his next to no time to throw. Look at SMU's chart he posted. So it is tough to be good throwing the ball down the field when you don't have time to sit back, step into throws, and let the routes fully develop. The skill guys are also lacking enough players who can stop on a dime and get open quickly as well as a pure speed outside receiver who can work outside the numbers. He also does not have a running back that he can use as an outlet in the passing game. It also does not help that they aren't running the ball effectively enough. When opposing defenses can rush the passer while playing man coverage because they don't respect the abilities of the WR's to get open it make things a hell of a lot harder to be effective as a QB.
I don't think it would be as big of a difference as you think because their offense is based on speed and space and quick throws. That works when you have Waddle and Hill. When you have Bourne and Parker you just can't do that. Shanny and a lot of his disciples have found a way to minimize investment in the OL. However in order for that to work you need the right set of weapons. You need guys who are man beaters too. There are so many ways to mitigate one or two problems but all of those solutions require for every weakness that you want to cover up you have a corresponding mitigating strength. The Patriots don't have one of those guys and they have multiple issues so it's messy right now.
I agree but...shouldn't this be true of ANY staring QB in the NFL? Give him time to throw, and explosive playmakers, and they all should put up big time numbers and results, right?
The Dolphins have some new guy at left guard named Isaiah Wynn. Would be a big upgrade over Cole Strange.
Yes, it's probably true of between 35 and 50 guys (fine, not elite). Now I think Mac is not at the bottom of that group, but yes, lots of QBs can be pretty good with a good O-line and explosive playmakers.
They should, that's for damned sure. Which quarterbacks in the NFL that have time throw and have explosive playmakers are not putting up big time numbers?
Right. I dont know any Mac "defenders" on here claiming he can be an elite elevator of team around him (lets call that Tier 1), just that we dont really know what lower tier of starter he actually falls into. He actually did have decent line play in his rookie year, and McDaniels as coach, and finished smack dab in the middle of most qb rankings (PFF, QBR, rating).
Who is putting up top 10-15 numbers regularly with poor talent around them, both on the offensive line and at the skill positions? By QBR last year, the 10-15 guys were 91.1 to 95.2. If that's the standard we're going to hold Mac to, then I'd say he's already pretty damn close. This year, the sample size is obviously small, but #15 is at 90.6, while Mac is currently 19th at 87.7.
See the below posts, but I was going to make a similar point. Back in 2021, Mac was right around mid-league by a lot of metrics. Would you say that took a lot of work/money around him? I mean, I guess it cost money from the standpoint that they paid Henry, Jonnu, and Agholor going into that season, but it's not like those guys were the reason he played pretty well.
We had one of the best lines in the league, and it took significant resources to build it (picks and money) and that is with getting incredibly lucky in Onwenwu.
Significant resources to build that line?
They had the 9th most expensive line in the league, depite starting a rookie 6th rounder, and not having to pay all of Brown's money because they traded a 5th for him.
I don't think that makes you a massive Mac fanboy for SoSH, I;d say there is a very small group who is all out on Mac, a lot of people (myself included) who think meh is about right, and a few people who are on the opposite end of "he's the next Brady being held back".
I don’t think there’s anyone saying he’s the next Brady being held back. I haven’t seen anyone say he’s even top 10. That’s a straw man that the posters saying he’s bottom 2 make up and argue against so they can rehash the same points they’ve made a million times
Idk if it’s necessarily a more reps issue. Guys fix mechanical issues all the time, Brady changed his throwing mechanics in like 2006 after having won 3 super bowls. You see the same thing with pitchers. It’s not always a reps problem, sometimes it’s just a “what you’ve been doing is working” problem that you try to adjust
I don't think that anyone thinks that it's a "more reps" thing. QBs work with throwing coaches and often improve their mechanics to the point that it not only increases their accuracy and release time but also the zip on their ball. Brady is a perfect example of a guy who improved materially through this, although he didn't have the zip issues that Mac does. Tiger Woods had swing coaches when he was the best golfer on earth. It helps.
If you thought that was bad footwork in the QB school vid you need to watch more. He was picking up very minor issues compared to a lot of other QBs he reviews. Overall he was very positive about Mac's game compared to many other QB vids I've seen and he even mentioned he was putting good velocity on the throws, more than I would expect from him.
Footwork and technique is something that has to constantly be worked on. I think the lack of quality coaching for him last year allowed him to develop and continue some bad habits. OB has done a pretty good job in getting him to be better under pressure inside the pocket, but the back foot throws have seeped in.
https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/rankings/2023-nfl-week-4-qb-power-rankings-joe-burrow-trending-downward/
It's hyperbole.. But you can just look back in this thread to see the "even Brady couldn't succeed with these teammates" quotes. Along with many other similar posts about how no QB would succeed
As someone who did say roughly the above, I cannot speak for others. But the supporting cast was awful in the Dolphins game: receivers not getting open or running the wrong routes or being pushed off the route by the defender; running backs slow getting the hole; and OL giving Mac literally zero time. A mobile QB would have had difficulty with as many defenders in the backfield as Miami had all game. Mac made several good throws and several completions just as he was about to be hammered. And he threw the ball away a lot because it was his only option.
There is a very good chance Tom Brady would not be TOM BRADY with the way the offense has looked. There were several seasons in his career that he did not.
Shit, I'll stand by that.
