The Goat Thread: Wk 4 vs Bills - Patriots didn't cheat enough

SeoulSoxFan

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Welp. The magic runs out. The goats:
  • Front-7: could not contain the rush nor finish off sacks
  • Coaches: seemed off mentally all game
  • Goodell: yeah, FU
Jets, Miami, Colts, all lost. Brady's back. That's all I got.
 

ShaneTrot

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Defense was lousy, yet only surrendered 16 points. I blame the conservative game plan in the first half. Try to win the game!
 

CoffeeNerdness

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McDaniels. Didn't do enough to get JB in a rhythm. Called exceptionally baffling play calls like an Edelman option with the game still in reach. Kept Blount out there on obvious passing downs. Meh.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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The entire team and coaching staff get an equal portion of the shit sandwich that was this game.

Bright side: No pressure on Brady to complete the perfect season.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Everyone except the punter.

From the VERY FIRST play of the game, when Jones screwed up the kickoff decision, the team looked awful. 9 accepted penalties, many more unaccepted, numerous stupid mental errors, poor play calling, horrible tackling, piss-poor game planning (McDaniels might want to hold off on the HC job search for a bit, he did a bad job today). Brissett played like a rookie and made many bad decisions.
Why dress Gronk if you're not going to use him?

A total shitshow from beginning to end.
 

lexrageorge

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There's always one mulligan game, and I'm OK with this being it, especially when forced to play a 3rd string QB with a cast on his thumb. Just annoyed that it was Rex Ryan on the other sideline. Goats:

- Goodell
- Defense. Poor tackling and execution all the way around. Bills had 3rd down conversion of 46%, and it seemed closer to 100% early on.
- Goodell
- Game plan on offense. Seemed awkward all game.
- Goodell.
- Gronk's injury. He's not close to 100% yet. Hopefully this doesn't linger all season.
- Oh, yeah, Roger Bleepin' Goodell
 

alydar

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D made very few sensational plays (sacks... 0 turnovers) but in the end, they gave up 16 points. Yes, they missed a lot of tackles. But 16 points is 16 points, and ZERO points by the O was the problem. So goats are:
- Bill B (if you want to be a genius with Tom B., you need to be a genius w/o him)
- Josh McD (same as above)
- Cyrus J (maybe someone ordered the Code Red -- run it out -- but I doubt it)

An unprepared team this week, so that mostly falls on the coaches.
 

Stitch01

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Everyone except the punter.

From the VERY FIRST play of the game, when Jones screwed up the kickoff decision, the team looked awful. 9 accepted penalties, many more unaccepted, numerous stupid mental errors, poor play calling, horrible tackling, piss-poor game planning (McDaniels might want to hold off on the HC job search for a bit, he did a bad job today). Brissett played like a rookie and made many bad decisions.
Why dress Gronk if you're not going to use him?

A total shitshow from beginning to end.
Don't have a problem with dressing an obviously limited Gronk nor should this game have any effect on McDaniels career. Was a shitshow though.

Turn the page, in good shape after one month
 

Seels

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Tackling sucked.
Pressure sucked.
Discipline/penalties sucked.
Offense was flat and boring. Especially the line.
Coaching sucked
Having to play JB sucked.
Officials sucked.

The silver lining is it let me catch more of Ortiz's retirement ceremony. This game was awful in every capacity.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Surprised not to see more goat horns for the OL. While time afforded to Jacoby wasn't terrible, the number of penalties was totally unacceptable-- a week after they put up a clean sheet against the Texans.

Also not yet mentioned....Gostkowski, what the fucking fuck?

Edit: okay, Johnnythebone got Gost, too.
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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Everyone, but I put the biggest horns on the coaching staff. Haven't seen this team so poorly prepared since I don't know when.

But yes, fuck Goodell and Judge "overwhelming evidence" Chin too.
 

JimD

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Seems like the Texans victory went to the players' heads. They had ten days and plenty of video to prepare for the Bills, but they played liked all they had to do was show up and victory was theirs.

Rex Ryan probably will get a contract extension from Buffalo's idiot owner after this victory, so there's that I guess.
 

mwonow

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Seems like the Texans victory went to the players' heads. They had ten days and plenty of video to prepare for the Bills, but they played liked all they had to do was show up and victory was theirs.

Rex Ryan probably will get a contract extension from Buffalo's idiot owner after this victory, so there's that I guess.
Not defending this as a response to winning the RexBowl, but...the BIlls just flat-out whipped the Pats in every facet of the game in Foxborough, a week after they stomped Arizona. Coaches get extended on much weaker evidence (see Fisher, STL)
 

Cellar-Door

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Not defending this as a response to winning the RexBowl, but...the BIlls just flat-out whipped the Pats in every facet of the game in Foxborough, a week after they stomped Arizona. Coaches get extended on much weaker evidence (see Fisher, STL)
Fisher is the most baffling situation in the league. I do think this gets Rex off the hot seat and he's safe until they get eliminated from playoff contention.
 

soxfan121

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Not defending this as a response to winning the RexBowl, but...the BIlls just flat-out whipped the Pats in every facet of the game in Foxborough, a week after they stomped Arizona. Coaches get extended on much weaker evidence (see Fisher, STL)
Yes, but Rex sucks so it has to be that the Patriots gave away the game and fucked up because he couldn't possibly be given any credit for a good game plan.
 

pokey_reese

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I'm honestly having a tough time thinking of people who did well in this game, outside of maybe Bennett. JB looked pretty bad, after getting people excited last week, even with the hand injury. His ability to move quickly through his progression just isn't there, and the decision making when he couldn't find his read was rough. Though to be fair, the line left him out to dry on a number of plays, and that's another unit where everyone seemed to do a pretty bad job. It felt like the Bills defenders were living in our backfield right off the snap, and I wonder if that's because JB isn't advanced enough to be varying the snap count, but I wouldn't expect it to be quite so bad when the Pats were at home, since it isn't like he had to worry about crowd noise... That's what really blew me away though, was how unprepared this team seemed to be at home after having extra time to prepare, so the coaching staff definitely gets a nice chunk of blame. Piss poor all around, to be shut out in Foxboro by what is likely a bottom-half team.
 

mwonow

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I'm honestly having a tough time thinking of people who did well in this game, outside of maybe Bennett. JB looked pretty bad, after getting people excited last week, even with the hand injury. His ability to move quickly through his progression just isn't there, and the decision making when he couldn't find his read was rough. Though to be fair, the line left him out to dry on a number of plays, and that's another unit where everyone seemed to do a pretty bad job. It felt like the Bills defenders were living in our backfield right off the snap, and I wonder if that's because JB isn't advanced enough to be varying the snap count, but I wouldn't expect it to be quite so bad when the Pats were at home, since it isn't like he had to worry about crowd noise... That's what really blew me away though, was how unprepared this team seemed to be at home after having extra time to prepare, so the coaching staff definitely gets a nice chunk of blame. Piss poor all around, to be shut out in Foxboro by what is likely a bottom-half team.
Are they really bottom half? They're 2-2, one game out of first in the east and with the tiebreaker.

Had the shoe been on the other foot today, with the Bills playing undisciplined football with too many penalties, bad special teams, an offense that couldn't get out of its own way, etc., everyone on this board would be raising a toast to Bill the genius and Rex the dunce. Per SF151 above, since it went the other way, doesn't Ryan deserve "credit for a good game plan?"
 

Tony C

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Everyone except the punter.

From the VERY FIRST play of the game, when Jones screwed up the kickoff decision, the team looked awful. 9 accepted penalties, many more unaccepted, numerous stupid mental errors, poor play calling, horrible tackling, piss-poor game planning (McDaniels might want to hold off on the HC job search for a bit, he did a bad job today). Brissett played like a rookie and made many bad decisions.
Why dress Gronk if you're not going to use him?

A total shitshow from beginning to end.
There's always one mulligan game, and I'm OK with this being it, especially when forced to play a 3rd string QB with a cast on his thumb. Just annoyed that it was Rex Ryan on the other sideline.
Agree with all of this, same as last week virtually everyone agreed that everyone deserved a game ball. Was sort of happy that everything that went wrong would go wrong in the same game -- lousy reffing, poor discipline, weird coaching, penalties just...bad in all phases. Doesn't bother me too much because, meh, they're 3-1 and really good and have Brady coming back (and hopefully Gronk -- but beginning to worry about that a bit).

Still, it is disappointing after 10 days of prep and a shame to not humiliate Rex again (though I wouldn't fall over myself giving him too much credit - he is what he is. I will say his call on the OC is looking good -- good plans 2 weeks in a row on that side of the ball.).
 

RoyHobbs

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Cyrus Jones...jeesh. If the point was to get a guy to spell/save Edelman, there is some work to do here.

JB needs more time. Glad he helped get them to 3-1, but.

Someone said it above but the game ball goes to the game plan, which made it easy to flip to Papi's ceremony in real time.
 

BigSoxFan

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Cyrus Jones...jeesh. If the point was to get a guy to spell/save Edelman, there is some work to do here.

JB needs more time. Glad he helped get them to 3-1, but.

Someone said it above but the game ball goes to the game plan, which made it easy to flip to Papi's ceremony in real time.
Cyrus has gone past the point of no return for me. Maybe he can help as a nickel DB but the dude is a fucking moron back there on returns.
 

heavyde050

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I'm honestly having a tough time thinking of people who did well in this game, outside of maybe Bennett. JB looked pretty bad, after getting people excited last week, even with the hand injury. His ability to move quickly through his progression just isn't there, and the decision making when he couldn't find his read was rough. Though to be fair, the line left him out to dry on a number of plays, and that's another unit where everyone seemed to do a pretty bad job. It felt like the Bills defenders were living in our backfield right off the snap, and I wonder if that's because JB isn't advanced enough to be varying the snap count, but I wouldn't expect it to be quite so bad when the Pats were at home, since it isn't like he had to worry about crowd noise... That's what really blew me away though, was how unprepared this team seemed to be at home after having extra time to prepare, so the coaching staff definitely gets a nice chunk of blame. Piss poor all around, to be shut out in Foxboro by what is likely a bottom-half team.
Bolden flat out dropped a would be TD on Jacoby's best pass of the day. Also a 90 yard completion got called back.
Jacoby played like a rookie. He missed some throws and the fumble was bad.
A recurring theme (even with Brady) is dumb penalties on the OL to make it 1 and 20.
 

Super Nomario

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Surprised not to see more goat horns for the OL. While time afforded to Jacoby wasn't terrible, the number of penalties was totally unacceptable-- a week after they put up a clean sheet against the Texans.
Other than the penalties, I thought the OL was pretty solid. They moved the ball a little on the ground, and Brissett generally had a clean pocket to step up in.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Not defending this as a response to winning the RexBowl, but...the BIlls just flat-out whipped the Pats in every facet of the game in Foxborough, a week after they stomped Arizona. Coaches get extended on much weaker evidence (see Fisher, STL)
AZ is losing at home to LA. Perhaps in the near future we'll be adjusting the value of those wins for both the Pats and Buff.
 

PseuFighter

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Fans at Gillette. As I mentioned in the game thread, a guy next to me was chastised for harmlessly trying to get the section to make some noise when the Pats were on defense early in the third. If he asked again, a guy three rows down threatened to call security. Place was just a library the whole game today. Was like this during week 1 too; worst I've seen in awhile.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I was there as well and the fans were not good. To be fair though starting out with Cyrus Jones acting like a dope multiple times, patriots unable to get a first down and long sustained drives by the Bills where the Pats d looked awful didnt give anyone much of a reason to cheer for a long time.
 

Toe Nash

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Not defending this as a response to winning the RexBowl, but...the BIlls just flat-out whipped the Pats in every facet of the game in Foxborough, a week after they stomped Arizona. Coaches get extended on much weaker evidence (see Fisher, STL)
It's not clear that Arizona is very good and NE had their third-string rookie QB and an incredibly neutered gameplan. This is evidence of nothing.

Front 7: In the past when they've faced mobile QBs the team has done a good job collapsing the pocket in on them and forcing them to pass from the pocket. It seemed like that was the plan but they didn't do it particularly well and after Woods beat Ryan for the tenth time they got frustrated and lost contain a few times. Meanwhile the Bills did the opposite.

JB: Obviously he needs more time and the plan wasn't to have him play yet, but he was bad. Slow to read, missed open receivers, made bad decisions and took hits. You can see why the gameplan was conservative - he's just not ready and if they had aired it out it probably would have been worse. I want to give Edelman and other receivers a goat, but they very well may have been getting open and JB wasn't seeing them.

Cyrus Jones: He messed up returning kicks in preseason too. Not sure why he's out there. Those were mental mistakes and Pats fans aren't used to seeing those.

Refs: It likely wouldn't have made a difference but every close call seemed to go Buffalo's way.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Fans at Gillette. As I mentioned in the game thread, a guy next to me was chastised for harmlessly trying to get the section to make some noise when the Pats were on defense early in the third. If he asked again, a guy three rows down threatened to call security. Place was just a library the whole game today. Was like this during week 1 too; worst I've seen in awhile.
This is really odd to me. The team was 100% dogshit today and got shut out at home. They did NOTHING right. What, exactly, were the fans supposed to cheer for?

Play better and the fans will be loud. Play like dogshit and the fans will not. Pretty simple to me.
 

BigSoxFan

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This is really odd to me. The team was 100% dogshit today and got shut out at home. They did NOTHING right. What, exactly, were the fans supposed to cheer for?

Play better and the fans will be loud. Play like dogshit and the fans will not. Pretty simple to me.
Sometimes a loud stadium is what it takes to snap a team out of a funk. This is an adrenaline sport - fans can have an impact. Obviously at the very bottom of the list of why there's an "L" next to the team's name this morning but I think criticizing a lame crowd is fair game.
 

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Sometimes a loud stadium is what it takes to snap a team out of a funk. This is an adrenaline sport - fans can have an impact. Obviously at the very bottom of the list of why there's an "L" next to the team's name this morning but I think criticizing a lame crowd is fair game.
As I mentioned in the game thread, the Pats have won 93% of their home games over the past 7 years or so. I highly doubt the crowd is or has ever been a problem. The problem yesterday was that the team appeared woefully unprepared to play a football game. The crowd had nothing to do with that. If the team prefers a louder crowd, they should perhaps not play like total dogshit from the first play (Jones screwing up the kickoff) to the last.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I've been at some pretty quiet games at Gillette. I've also been at some loud ones. In general I'll agree with the notion that it doesn't get as loud as many other stadiums, but the crowd can bring it, particularly come playoff time.

I've been annoyed at Gillette crowds before but not during the small handful of shitty games I've attended there. I get more annoyed when they are playing well and the fans are not into it for whatever reason. The legitimate criticism of Patriot home crowds is like much of the rest of the fan base, we are all spoiled so there are times when the team can be playing great and the crowd is completely not into it, particularly against what people perceive to be an inferior opponent. That, to me, is annoying.

I really have no issues with quiet fans when your team comes out and shoots itself in the foot in every conceivable way and gets its doors blown off for the entire first half.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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Other than the penalties, I thought the OL was pretty solid. They moved the ball a little on the ground, and Brissett generally had a clean pocket to step up in.
They mostly looked fine to me.

Brisset was holding the ball forever - which made them look worse than they were. He's just not an NFL quarterback at this point - he missed too many open passes, did too many dumb things (which is entirely expected for a rookie at this point)

And while the defense wasn't great, they held a team to 16 points who put up >30 in both their previous games, while the offense turned the ball over and generally did nothing. They weren't the problem.
 

BigSoxFan

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As I mentioned in the game thread, the Pats have won 93% of their home games over the past 7 years or so. I highly doubt the crowd is or has ever been a problem. The problem yesterday was that the team appeared woefully unprepared to play a football game. The crowd had nothing to do with that. If the team prefers a louder crowd, they should perhaps not play like total dogshit from the first play (Jones screwing up the kickoff) to the last.
I don't disagree. But the crowd can only control what the crowd does. And it should be loud every time the opponent has the ball since it can impact the game in the form of penalties. Again, fans were treated to a shit show so I understand the lack of noise.
 

Super Nomario

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And while the defense wasn't great, they held a team to 16 points who put up >30 in both their previous games, while the offense turned the ball over and generally did nothing. They weren't the problem.
I would not give the defense a pass. Poor play on D was a major factor in putting them in a 13-0 hole, and the D let Buffalo control the ball all game. They forced only one three-and-out and zero turnovers. Buffalo only had nine drives - they scored on four of them, missed a FG on a fifth, and had two drives where they dominated clock (running 4 of the last 5 minutes off in Q2 and running 6 minutes off in Q4) before punting.

The offense was the bigger problem yesterday, but that should be expected with Brissett (who might not have been healthy). They needed the D to step up like it did against Houston, and it fell flat on its face.
 

Toe Nash

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I'm not sure why we're blaming "preparation" here. It was probably more difficult than the average week given the QB situation, but that shouldn't have affected the defense a whole lot. I think they had the right gameplan*, generally, but they just failed to execute on any of it. Absent some report that guys weren't focused, it's speculation to blame anything on the coaches.

And yeah, the defense was definitely a problem. They couldn't stop Robert Woods, missed a ton of tackles on McCoy, didn't get much pressure on Taylor and generally couldn't get off the field as Super Nomario notes.

*Similar to the Houston game -- run a lot, use some tricky plays, and hope the defense stops the offense most of the time.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Preparation gets mentioned because of the uncharacteristic stupid mental mistakes they made. Missing tackles is one thing, but that's a physical error. Aggravating, yes, but a product of doing. Being unable to figure out kickoff returns is quite another. Getting 2 penalties for lining up in the neutral zone is yet another. Getting called for 8 penalties plus a bunch more that were declined is yet another. Brissett not knowing when to slide and fumbling upon getting hit is yet another.

We rarely see this team make those kinds of stupid mental mistakes. I do see shitty teams like Jacksonville and Cleveland make them all the time.

They simply weren't adequately prepared for this game, and it showed in the way they played. They were getting verbal blowjobs in the press for 10 days after the Houston game, they certainly played yesterday like they had read every single press clipping about how great they were. I haven't seen this team so woefully underprepared for a game since the 31-14 playoff game against Baltimore, and that team at least had the terrible excuse that it was composed primarily of shitty human beings on their way out of the league.

Maybe the QB situation threw them for a loop, but that's no excuse not to have their heads in the game. They screwed up the very first two plays they ran and never, ever recovered.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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I would not give the defense a pass. Poor play on D was a major factor in putting them in a 13-0 hole, and the D let Buffalo control the ball all game. They forced only one three-and-out and zero turnovers. Buffalo only had nine drives - they scored on four of them, missed a FG on a fifth, and had two drives where they dominated clock (running 4 of the last 5 minutes off in Q2 and running 6 minutes off in Q4) before punting.
I get that - but a large part of that is the offense going 3 and out most drives of the game. If your offense can only manage getting past the 50 three times in a game, your defense is going to wear down, and you're going to lose.

Most games, holding your opponents to 16 points is a good enough performance to win. With an "Average NFL Quarterback" I think they win this game by a significant margin. Brisset is below replacement level (which is pretty much expected) - he was overthrowing guys who were wide open on crossing plays, getting sacked on plays where he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball, etc.
 

tims4wins

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What was refreshed for me yesterday is that it is hard to win in the league, and you are never as good as you look when you win by 30, and vice versa. They controlled every element of the game against Houston but that 27-0 score was fluky due to the turnovers on special teams. The offense did not play notably better vs. Houston than it did yesterday IMO. If Brissett doesn't fumble and Ghost doesn't miss a FG those are 6 points which is basically what the offense put up against Houston through 3.5 quarters, they just got some turnover luck and converted. They had to play well in all 3 phases to win yesterday and they didn't play well in any phase. People laugh when BB talks about all 3 phases but you need all to win. The ST let the offense down on the first two kickoffs, the D didn't step up until it was like 13-0, the offense couldn't put together a drive / not shoot itself in the foot with turnovers / penalties. I don't think any of this has to do with preparation. They didn't execute the kickoff return well, they didn't execute the WR screen like they should have, etc. If they execute the screen and go up 7-0 it is a drastically different game IMO.
 

Super Nomario

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I get that - but a large part of that is the offense going 3 and out most drives of the game. If your offense can only manage getting past the 50 three times in a game, your defense is going to wear down, and you're going to lose.

Most games, holding your opponents to 16 points is a good enough performance to win. With an "Average NFL Quarterback" I think they win this game by a significant margin. Brisset is below replacement level (which is pretty much expected) - he was overthrowing guys who were wide open on crossing plays, getting sacked on plays where he had plenty of time to get rid of the ball, etc.
If the D "wore down" it was in part because of the O but also in part because they were totally unable to get off the field. Buffalo marched down the field with a 7:11, 12-play TD drive when the D was fully rested at the beginning of the game. Only on two drives was the D able to get the Bills off the field in fewer than eight plays, and one of those was the last drive of the game where the outcome was settled.

Not all 16 point defensive performances are equal. Usually, that's an excellent defensive performance. Yesterday, the D was bad and still allowed only 16 points.
 

Stitch01

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No. Year-to-year accuracy is pretty variable and the low 90% he's made over the last few years isnt really sustainable. I dont really think he has the yips or anything. He's still very good on kickoffs, which is the part of kicking that is a sustainable skill.