The Game Ball Thread: Wk 14 vs Ravens

NortheasternPJ

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That said, the Pats really need to work on tackling, not throwing a shoulder at the legs but getting ball carriers on the ground.
I thought the Pats tackled extremely well all game except for that 45 yard play by the fullback where the entire team seemed to miss. Seems like every time Flacco checked down, there were multiple Pats there to make a stop and not give up any YAC.

I don't remember a game though where the special teams was so good in a couple aspects (blocked FG, punt down to the 1 leading to a safety) and so bad in the return game. Please never have Cyrus Jones out there again on kicks.
 

chilidawg

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Best game all year, except for the 3 turnovers. I might give Slater something of a pass, he did get hit pretty hard. Bad decision by Brady on the pick, and a complete WTF for Jones. Jones got burned on the deep ball to Perriman as well so he gets a double goat.

First half defense was as good as it gets. Special teams outside of the return fumbles were great. Loved seeing LGBT pounding it in the last minute to run out the clock. When you can run it when they know you're going to run it, very good sign. TB had another great game except for the pick.
 

eustis22

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I just realized the Pats will be one mile down the road on Sunday and I'll be there.
You JUST realized that???? How does any pat fan not have next week lit in neon on his calendar since the schedule was announced? This revenge beating is only #2 in the list after crushing the Giants in the Super Bowl.

Ahem.

1) The DBs...with a couple of exceptions, they blanketed the Ravens receivers. How huge was Butlers decking of Pitta a few inches short of the first down? This, in a season where the refs are calling anything in the vicinity of the yellow line an automatic first down. It was nice of Harbaugh to go gutless on the 4th down, too. I think Jonathan Jones is a comer and will take over for Ryan shortly. He's got very good instincts around the ball and reminds me a little of Butler in that regard.

2) The LBs.....KVN has been a revelation and we can now forget all about Jamie whatshisname. I'm not sold on McClellan, though. Whatever happened to Elandon Roberts?

3) Hogan/Mitchell/Bennett.....too many throws to Edelman in the last three weeks. The difference is if you throw it they will catch it (especially Mitchell).

4) Patriarca with his DL formations. "you never know WHICH four!"

Little known stat: Slater has 4 fumbles in 13 kickoff returns.

I want to crush the Broncos, and drive their women and children weeping before us. Because, Fuck the Broncos.
 

joe dokes

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I think the post-Collins defense has become operational. So.....rocket scientist gets my vote. Whatever he schemed caused Balt to abandon the run. And that's what he seemed to expect, because the pass D was ready and forced Flacco to throw 3-yard safety valves.
 

Toe Nash

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Are we really unanimously praising Brady here? I thought it was a B+ game from him. He missed Edelman early, missed him on the long throw that he got mad about (i though he threw to his left instead of in front of him) and had the horrific INT when a TD would have nearly put away the game. I'll also note he looked way better once Jimmy Smith went out.

The bar is obviously high for him and the rest of the game was good but those were some bad plays and if the defense hadn't been so good in the first half they would have stood out much more.

Game ball for me goes to the OL, Butler and Chung.
 

RedOctober3829

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Are we really unanimously praising Brady here? I thought it was a B+ game from him. He missed Edelman early, missed him on the long throw that he got mad about (i though he threw to his left instead of in front of him) and had the horrific INT when a TD would have nearly put away the game. I'll also note he looked way better once Jimmy Smith went out.

The bar is obviously high for him and the rest of the game was good but those were some bad plays and if the defense hadn't been so good in the first half they would have stood out much more.

Game ball for me goes to the OL, Butler and Chung.
He didn't exactly miss Edelman on the long pass. Edelman stopped running down the field and there was contact from the defender. The INT was bad, but let's be fair here. He was pretty damn good for almost all of the game.
 

kenneycb

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The non-return guys on special teams were awesome.
Except for Shea McLellan pulling a Jordan Todman and booting the ball into the end zone on one of the punts.

Patrick Chung for being able to hold onto punts and the onside kick.

I'm kind of getting the "Welker at the end vibe" from Edelman with the drops when it seemed like finally he took too many big hits. Still useful but he's not the ole reliable that he once was back in the day.
 

DJnVa

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Yeah, Brady started 3 for 9 with some drops then went 22 for 29 for 370 yards to finish.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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The defense was really really really good last night. The scoreboard is unfair to them, because special teams cost them about 160 yards of field position. Against a damn good team the defense was very very good.
 

tims4wins

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The defense was really really really good last night. The scoreboard is unfair to them, because special teams cost them about 160 yards of field position. Against a damn good team the defense was very very good.
Yep, and they also gave up a garbage time 7 to SF, and 7 to the Rams. They could easily be leading the league in points allowed
 

joe dokes

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I'm kind of getting the "Welker at the end vibe" from Edelman with the drops when it seemed like finally he took too many big hits. Still useful but he's not the ole reliable that he once was back in the day.
Was thinking the exact same thing.
 

Jungleland

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Unlike the Rams game where I thought the defense played well because the opponent sucked and made dumb mistakes, they actually looked great last night - really best all year since the AZ and Houston games. The D line got good pressure until they were gassed. The linebackers looked the way you imagine BB thought they could play when he traded Collins. And in the secondary, McCourty and Harmon had probably their best game of the year. The two special teams blunders really overshadow what was a pretty incredible game in the other two phases.
 

Van Everyman

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My sense with Edelman is less that he has taken too many hits than he is trying to avoid them – most likely to cover for an injury of some sort. It was pretty clear his foot still wasn't right at the beginning of the year but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shoulder in there too. He's just not completing his routes the same way he normally does – and seems to be trying to stretch the ones he does get to further, which risks being stripped.

Hope this gets better as we approach playoff time. Need full Jules for the stretch.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Brady, Butler, Bennett, and Allen...amazing that Bennett was so good after being so bad the previous week.
 

loshjott

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I think the post-Collins defense has become operational. So.....rocket scientist gets my vote. Whatever he schemed caused Balt to abandon the run. And that's what he seemed to expect, because the pass D was ready and forced Flacco to throw 3-yard safety valves.
Ravens are 28th in rushing offense, 86 ypg (after last night's game). Also 28th in rushes attempted. More like Patricia schemed knowing they'd need to sling it all game.

P.S. Your NE Patriots are 7th both in rushing ypg and attempts.
 

amarshal2

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Are we really unanimously praising Brady here? I thought it was a B+ game from him. He missed Edelman early, missed him on the long throw that he got mad about (i though he threw to his left instead of in front of him) and had the horrific INT when a TD would have nearly put away the game. I'll also note he looked way better once Jimmy Smith went out.

The bar is obviously high for him and the rest of the game was good but those were some bad plays and if the defense hadn't been so good in the first half they would have stood out much more.

Game ball for me goes to the OL, Butler and Chung.
As others have pointed out, he was off early. Threw behind some guys or just missed. Also the int. But putting up 406 yards on the top D in the NFL...hitting all those guys perfectly on the run...scoring when they needed him most...only a Pats fan could consider not giving him a game ball after that performance. He locked up the league MVP in my eyes last night.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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A fair amount of the Edleman "drops" had a defender draped over him with a hand on the ball. I am not ready to classify him in the Welker category until his costs us a SB.

The defense was victim to 2 short fields when they gave up those scores. Early in the season they were giving up chunks of yards and holding teams to a FG, so that stuff evens out over time.
 

Number45forever

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We're so lucky to have TB12 on our favorite team. Despite a slow start and some drops, I thought he played just awesome from start to finish. The INT sucked. Otherwise, he was the man. It's not just making the throws. It's all the pre-snap adjustments he was making. It was a clinic.

Honorable mention game balls to:

DL
OL
Special teams (non returners)
Mitchell (please get him the ball much, much more)

We're on to Denver.
 

joe dokes

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My sense with Edelman is less that he has taken too many hits than he is trying to avoid them – most likely to cover for an injury of some sort. It was pretty clear his foot still wasn't right at the beginning of the year but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a shoulder in there too. He's just not completing his routes the same way he normally does – and seems to be trying to stretch the ones he does get to further, which risks being stripped.

Hope this gets better as we approach playoff time. Need full Jules for the stretch.
May be two sides of the same coin. After awhile, the hits leave a cumulative mark that causes the player to play just a hair differently. Edelman, in his age 30 season, is up to about 500 targets. Welker had over 100 more, but I think 500 and 30 give or take 50 and 1 is about when Welker turned from Superman to "still really good."
 

jimbobim

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There were a lot of nice defensive plays by a variety of individuals McClellin McCourty Butler Hightower Brown but let me just share this honest anecdote about how unreal an opportunity it is to witness Brady

Watching the game with Padre with the sound turned off after the two fumbles and clinging to a 3 point lead despite thoroughly outplaying Bal I turn to Padre and say " It's time for the GOAT. The GOAT doesn't lose this game. The GOAT doesn't let 1:30 of dumb catastrophic ST blunders ruin how well they've played." 10 seconds later the GOAT delivers a picturesque strike to basically seal the deal.

That on top of the impeccably placed balls to Mitchell and Bennnett for TD's and the Flea Flicker.

He's a monster. Incredible that he started when I was in 5th grade. They compared him Brett Fing Favre last night and the winning percentage difference was incredible. On to Denver for some revenge.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Yep, and they also gave up a garbage time 7 to SF, and 7 to the Rams. They could easily be leading the league in points allowed
I said it in the game thread and I'll repeat it here, at what point do we stop looking at points allowed as a meaningful stat for measuring how good the defense is?

It wasn't a particularly good measure of how well the defense was playing earlier in the year when they were not giving up a ton of points, and it wasn't a good measure of how well they played last night.
 

RedOctober3829

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I said it in the game thread and I'll repeat it here, at what point do we stop looking at points allowed as a meaningful stat for measuring how good the defense is?

It wasn't a particularly good measure of how well the defense was playing earlier in the year when they were not giving up a ton of points, and it wasn't a good measure of how well they played last night.
Sure, we can look at other measures but points allowed, in my opinion, is the only measure that matters. I don't really care how many yards they give up. If they keep the other team out of the end zone they did their job.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Overall, PA usually balances out over time. Giving up garbage time points can be taken into consideration, but Belichick has said many times the only defensive stat he really cares about is points allowed.

The defense was really good last night. The ST killed them which made the score unrepresentative of the overall defensive effort.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Sure, we can look at other measures but points allowed, in my opinion, is the only measure that matters. I don't really care how many yards they give up. If they keep the other team out of the end zone they did their job.
It's a very meaningful team stat. It is not a great way to measure how well a defense is playing, as last night demonstrated quite well.

Edit: Points scored by an offense is pretty highly correlated with starting field position, which has absolutely nothing to do with defensive performance. To say nothing of the fact that it is possible for the other team to score when your defense isn't even on the field.
 

Toe Nash

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He didn't exactly miss Edelman on the long pass. Edelman stopped running down the field and there was contact from the defender. The INT was bad, but let's be fair here. He was pretty damn good for almost all of the game.
It looked to me like Edelman had separation but TB led Edelman into the defender and he had to adjust his route.

Anyway I'm mostly annoyed about the INT. It's frustrating because he does everything else so well always (and usually smartly eats the ball when an unexpected blitzer is closing on him). Like, SB 49 is probably much more comfortable if he doesn't make that similar boneheaded play (and if they don't let them score before the half). Alternately if Butler doesn't make the INT we're wondering why Brady threw that ball instead of eating it and getting the 3 points.

Like I said he played well overall, I was just surprised to see the unanimous game balls.
 

RedOctober3829

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It's a very meaningful team stat. It is not a great way to measure how well a defense is playing, as last night demonstrated quite well.

Edit: Points scored by an offense is pretty highly correlated with starting field position, which has absolutely nothing to do with defensive performance. To say nothing of the fact that it is possible for the other team to score when your defense isn't even on the field.
I would agree with you in that the defense the last few weeks has improved. I think a couple of factors play into this. One is that the linebackers have settled down into roles into which they can succeed. KVN and Shea have played well and been used properly. The front four(especially the ends) have gotten to the passer at a better rate than in previous weeks. Also, Matt Patricia has gotten away from the soft zones and has been much more aggressive in his schemes. I've been calling for this the entire year from Patricia and it's made a huge difference. Opposing QB's aren't allowed to sit back comfortably in the pocket anymore and pick a zone apart. Their decision making has sped up and more mistakes have been forced.
 

Stitch01

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Rushing three, playing soft zones, and tackling was a big part of the game plan last night. They continue to add wrinkles for sure, they rushed off the corner more than I can remember, but I don't think its a drastic scheme change from earlier in the year when the defense was bad. I think the personnel adjustments you highlighted and better execution matter at least as much.

Run D also seems much more consistent at contain
 
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RedOctober3829

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Rushing three, playing soft zones, and tackling was a big part of the game plan last night.
They were disguising their rushers and the players that were dropping all night. I'm not saying that they were playing press man and scrapping zones because obviously that didn't happen. But earlier in the season the zones were vanilla. The last few weeks have been different.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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What I noticed is the front 3/4 (until they got tired from multiple possessions without rest) was just blowing up the Ravens O-line every snap. Just shoving them back 1 or 2 yards at the snap. Feels good man...
 

joe dokes

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Rushing three, playing soft zones, and tackling was a big part of the game plan last night. They continue to add wrinkles for sure, they rushed off the corner more than I can remember, but I don't think its a drastic scheme change from earlier in the year when the defense was bad. I think the personnel adjustments you highlighted and better execution matter at least as much.

Maybe the two are related. Maybe one of the guys in the middle of the defense was screwing things up more badly than couch-watchers like me can appreciate or understand; and maybe that's why he was traded.
 

lexrageorge

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It looked to me like Edelman had separation but TB led Edelman into the defender and he had to adjust his route.

Anyway I'm mostly annoyed about the INT. It's frustrating because he does everything else so well always (and usually smartly eats the ball when an unexpected blitzer is closing on him). Like, SB 49 is probably much more comfortable if he doesn't make that similar boneheaded play (and if they don't let them score before the half). Alternately if Butler doesn't make the INT we're wondering why Brady threw that ball instead of eating it and getting the 3 points.

Like I said he played well overall, I was just surprised to see the unanimous game balls.
I agree with you that the INT was frustrating. He had plenty of time, and could have just as easily went down or threw the ball away.

However, there are 15 QB's with double digit INT's this season, including well known names like Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson. Cousins and Newton have 9 each, so will likely join that club. The last time Brady had double digit INT totals was 2013, when he had 11. Basically, plays like that end zone INT happen to the best QB's all the time; we just don't see it happen to Brady all that often, so when it does happen it really stands out.

There will be many things we'll miss about Brady when he finally hangs them up; his ability to avoid INT's is a big one.
 

RedOctober3829

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Rushing three, playing soft zones, and tackling was a big part of the game plan last night. They continue to add wrinkles for sure, they rushed off the corner more than I can remember, but I don't think its a drastic scheme change from earlier in the year when the defense was bad. I think the personnel adjustments you highlighted and better execution matter at least as much.

Run D also seems much more consistent at contain
I think another reason the defense has been better that we haven't touched on yet is that they are getting to the QB with rushing 3 or 4 more consistently than earlier in the season.
 

Stitch01

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Yes. Flowers emergence seems to have helped there in particular.

In some ways wish they had a game against a good offense next week rather than against a team like Denver (although with Butler limping after the game, maybe not). Defense seems so much stronger than it did over the first half of the year, but wont really get a good measuring stick until the playoffs.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Edelman had his worst catching night of the year last night, but it was against a good defense and it's going to take time to adjust to post Gronk usage. Overall, 79 catches on 125 targets puts him as good or better than almost all of the heavily targeted receivers in the league not named Antonio Brown. Only Fitz is really better, and that guy is a hall of famer because he catches everything within 10 feet. Edelman works in high traffic areas and Brady often throws it away or puts balls in very tough spots where only the receiver can get it with a crazy good catch. Not worried yet.
 

tims4wins

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Sure, we can look at other measures but points allowed, in my opinion, is the only measure that matters. I don't really care how many yards they give up. If they keep the other team out of the end zone they did their job.
This was looked at before, nearly every year the Pats finish better in points allowed than yardage or other stats. I know that part of it is due to their offense, and part of it is due to their special teams, but they are doing something that doesn't show up in the numbers that makes this happen year after year.
 

tims4wins

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I read that last year they ran for about 1,400 yards as a team, and this year they are already over 1,500.

Also read that after the Blount injury they ran for something like 3.2 YPA.
 

RG33

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The Defense best game of year. They were stout overall.
Chung -- owned Pitta
Butler -- Good coverage, good tackling
McClellan/Van Noy -- getting comfortable -- this is big
James White -- he and Lewis need more throws out of the backfield now
Ghost -- seems to be getting in a groove?

Down

Edelman -- worst game of year?
Cyrus -- yikes -- he is probably done for the year now
 

SMU_Sox

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Blount's DYAR was third highest for a RB this week and he had the second highest DYAR rushing. Brady had the second highest DYAR for QBs. This was a good defense and we took it to them. This could have been so much worse than 30-23 for the Ravens.
So many game were deserving of game balls yesterday but I think those two are more than deserving.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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They were disguising their rushers and the players that were dropping all night. I'm not saying that they were playing press man and scrapping zones because obviously that didn't happen. But earlier in the season the zones were vanilla. The last few weeks have been different.
They mixed up the rushers and underneath coverage really well but I suspect a big part of the performance was simply playing better zone fundamentals down the field. Its hard to see this stuff on the game feed but Flacco continually looking downfield and then checking down is an indication that the coverage was effective. That compares favorably to several earlier games this season when opposing QBs seemed to have little trouble finding holes in the downfield zone coverage.
 

heavyde050

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He didn't exactly miss Edelman on the long pass. Edelman stopped running down the field and there was contact from the defender. The INT was bad, but let's be fair here. He was pretty damn good for almost all of the game.
Agree with this 100%.

The int was an awful throw/decision but the miss to JE on the long pass was definitely much more on Edelman slowing/stopping his route.

Also, this was a below average game for JE. He had a few drops and just didn't play to his high standard.

In fact, this may have been one of Brady's better games this year, but the stats look worse because of the atrocious interception.

I mean he dropped some dimes and over 400 yards on the number one defense without Gronk.
 

Marciano490

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Agree with this 100%.

The int was an awful throw/decision but the miss to JE on the long pass was definitely much more on Edelman slowing/stopping his route.

Also, this was a below average game for JE. He had a few drops and just didn't play to his high standard.

In fact, this may have been one of Brady's better games this year, but the stats look worse because of the atrocious interception.

I mean he dropped some dimes and over 400 yards on the number one defense without Gronk.
Technically true of course, but 25-38, 3 TD, 1 INT, 116.8 Rtg looks pretty damn otherworldly to me, especially against this defense.